House Budget Proposal to remove Tax on Suppressors but not remove it from the NFA

[Malum Prohibitum]

Believe it or not, suppressors are technically legal in California. Just good luck getting anyone to sign off on one to acquire it legally (it's effectively a shadow ban on them).

Is the chief law enforcement officer required to sign the law enforcement certification on ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4?​

No. Effective July 13, 2016, the final rule “Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a Firearm” amends the regulations to eliminate the requirement for a certification signed by a chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) and instead adds a CLEO notification requirement.
Prior to submission of the application to the Director, all applicants/transferees and responsible persons shall forward a completed copy of ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4, or a completed copy of Form 5320.23, respectively, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or responsible person is located. The chief law enforcement officer is the local chief of police, county sheriff, head of the state police, state or local district attorney or prosecutor.
If the transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a partnership, company, association, or corporation, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at its principal office or principal place of business; if the applicant/transferee is not a licensed manufacturer, importer, or dealer qualified under this part and is a trust, for purposes of this section, it is considered located at the primary location at which the firearm will be maintained.

Is the chief law enforcement officer required to sign the law enforcement certification on ATF Form 1 or ATF Form 4? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

No. Effective July 13, 2016, the final rule “Machineguns, Destructive Devices and Certain Other Firearms; Background Checks for Responsible Persons of a Trust or Legal Entity With Respect to Making or Transferring a Firearm” amends the regulations to eliminate the requirement for a certification...

www.atf.gov

Straight from the horse's mouth

 

[JR_77]

Anybody that rode a bicycle everywhere had those back in the day. It was a Tuesday…

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The cap on my bicycle's tire stems looked like this in Texas, when I was in grade school and spent most of my free time riding about.

Anybody that rode a bicycle everywhere had those back in the day. It was a Tuesday…

I knew you were all about the thug life and that post confirms it.

Sigh. I don't get it. I feel excluded . . .

 

[NoDopes]

Maybe, if we can get courts to disagree. So far they have been ruling that gun mufflers are not "arms" and not required for arms to function for self defense.

I thought the 3rd circuit court just ruled they were arms? So, unless congress passes this bill, it will be heading to the SC.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I thought the 3rd circuit court just ruled they were arms? So, unless congress passes this bill, it will be heading to the SC.

Please share a case name or number or something. Sorry, I do not recall a Third Circuit ruling on the issue, but I would like to see it.

 

[MarinePMI]

After doing some more research, suppressors are illegal in California (California Penal Code 33410 PC), but just for civilians. Manufacturers and LEO are exempt.

 

[W54/XM-388]

After doing some more research, suppressors are illegal in California (California Penal Code 33410 PC), but just for civilians. Manufacturers and LEO are exempt.

Seems like if someone at the fed level of politicians had some guts and wasn't just the usual garbage, you could pass a federal preemption bill using the interstate commerce clause (that the democrats have used for 100+ years to have fed rule over everything), to make it so States couldn't ban guns or knives or accessories that are federally legal and even have penalties for those who try.

But of course that's a bit of a dream.

 

[lash]

Sigh. I don't get it. I feel excluded . . .

Back when all bicycle tires used tubes that had Schrader valves to inflate them, it was possible for a valve to back out and/or leak. That valve cap he showed in the picture could be used to tighten or replace a leaking Schrader valve.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Thanks - never knew of it. I used to ride my bike everywhere . . .

 

[NoDopes]

Please share a case name or number or something. Sorry, I do not recall a Third Circuit ruling on the issue, but I would like to see it.

Ok, it was 5th.. and it was technically with withdrawal of their feb. 3 judge panel ruling confirming lower court that it wasn't an arm. Waiting for them to actually rule it actually IS, or wait if this new bill passes. I mean, pulling their prior ruling is about as close as it gets.

Fifth Circuit Takes Unusual Step in Suppressor Case

Back in February of this year, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals issued their opinion in U.S. v. Pe

bearingarms.com

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Ok, it was 5th.. and it was technically with withdrawal of their feb. 3 judge panel ruling confirming lower court that it wasn't an arm. Waiting for them to actually rule it actually IS, or wait if this new bill passes. I mean, pulling their prior ruling is about as close as it gets.

Fifth Circuit Takes Unusual Step in Suppressor Case

Back in February of this year, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals issued their opinion in U.S. v. Pe

bearingarms.com

Thanks for the article.

I knew about the Fifth Circuit's opinion, and I knew about the DOJ's weak brief that was filed, which some trumpeted but maybe did not read. As quoted in that article, the DOJ took the position that the NFA tax and registration scheme was consistent with the Second Amendment. They did, however, take the possession that "accessories" should be protected. They did not take the position that silencers are arms.

But I did not know about the Fifth Circuit withdrawing their opinion. That is interesting.

It still is not likely to go to the Supreme Court, however. Just as with the AR15 issue, the highest court wants more circuit court decisions out there before it wades into the fray. One will not do.

 

[supercorndogs]

Publicly owned assets, you say? The next thing you’ll say is “we need to nationalize the oil fields…”

LOL. That's a retarded reach.

 

[anon]

Thanks - never knew of it. I used to ride my bike everywhere . . .

I actually rode the tread off of some tires. Removing the stem to deflate the innertube was the easiest way to deflate it to change the tire.

I would guess the Texas statute is for spike strips, but vague is vague and misinterpreted on a whim.

How a tool gets used is up to the person using it.

 

[supercorndogs]

It’s funny you use the word asset. The fed actually wants to put the public lands on the role as an asset. What happens when default or bankruptcy of a nation occurs?
No one is for foreign countries or persons to being able to buy land, that should be made illegal. And the idea that only big corporations or billionaires will buy the land doesn’t have to happen. They can put stipulations on it so that doesn’t happen. The less the government owns and controls the better.

The government doesn't own it. That's the point. We have them managing it for us. They have no business selling what is not theirs.

Yes public asset. Used by millions, some people make a living off it, it drives hundreds of local economies. Yes public land is an asset to the public.

 

[VandelayIndustries]

The government doesn't own it. That's the point. We have them managing it for us. They have no business selling what is not theirs.

Yes public asset. Used by millions, some people make a living off it, it drives hundreds of local economies. Yes public land is an asset to the public.

They don’t own it they just can tell you what you can and can’t do on it. Sell it back to the people, private ownership and private sector is better and more efficient then government controlled.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Ok, it was 5th.. and it was technically with withdrawal of their feb. 3 judge panel ruling confirming lower court that it wasn't an arm. Waiting for them to actually rule it actually IS, or wait if this new bill passes. I mean, pulling their prior ruling is about as close as it gets.

Fifth Circuit Takes Unusual Step in Suppressor Case

Back in February of this year, the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals issued their opinion in U.S. v. Pe

bearingarms.com

Money quote from that article:

Peterson's attorneys also argued that the DOJ's position opens the door to taxing and registering all firearms in the future, though it noted that "the Government apparently recognizes that such a result would be untenable."

It therefore in a footnote seeks to distinguish suppressors from firearms on the grounds that “a law regulating or taxing the firearm itself would impose a more severe burden on the right to keep and bear arms than regulations on useful but non-essential accessories such as suppressors.” But this purported distinction fails. For components of a firearm like suppressors that “facilitate armed self-defense,” it makes no sense to draw lines between arbitrary categories such as accessory/non-accessory or essential/non-essential. The Government admits the use of a suppressor “helps shooters avoid permanent hearing damage and facilitates communication with others when engaging in both civilian self-defense and public defense,” that “uppressors appear to improve accuracy,” and that “suppressors aid in target shooting … by reducing noise pollution and providing additional hearing protection beyond personal protective equipment.” It should make no difference to the analysis whether the object of regulation is suppressed firearms or suppressors themselves. The end result is the same—use of suppressed firearms is restricted. The Government offers no logical or historical basis for treating the situations differently.

 

[Redlion]

Movement coming.

Credit Where Due – Majority Leader John Thune Eyes Friday for Senate BBB Votes to Begin​

Cautious optimism is warranted, however it looks like Senate Majority Leader John Thune is pushing hard to hit the deadlines set by President Trump for passage of the Big Beautiful Bill (BBB) reconciliation package.
Speaking today right before a meeting with House Speaker Mike Johnson, Senator Thune noted he is optimistic the Senate can finalize their negotiations on the BBB over the next two days, setting up the Senate to hold their first cloture votes on Friday and a vote-a-rama through the weekend.

President Trump is still assisting Leader Thune with phone calls to Senate republicans between foreign policy engagements. Trump is only staying in the Netherlands for 24 hours so he can quickly get back to DC to assist in any arm-twisting needed by Thune or Johnson.

According to Politico, House Speaker Mike Johnson has cautioned House representatives to stay in town this weekend and be prepared to reconcile both bills and vote on the package as soon as it exits the Senate. As many of you are aware, this is a critical legislative package containing a large amount of President Trump’s America First policy priorities.

https://theconservativetreehouse.co...ne-eyes-friday-for-senate-bbb-votes-to-begin/

 

[SilentStalkr]

This still a thing?

 

[Redlion]

This still a thing?

As far as I know the Short Act and taking suppressors off of the NFA is still included in the BBB.

 

[hlee]

This still a thing?

Don’t worry. The deciding vote in the house was recently murdered. IF it makes it back to the house, it’s probably DOA…

Edited. But, the bill is probably still DOA.

 

[Redlion]

Don’t worry. The deciding vote in the house was recently murdered. IF it makes it back to the house, it’s probably DOA…

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Don’t worry. The deciding vote in the house was recently murdered. IF it makes it back to the house, it’s probably DOA…

Murdered?

What?

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Movement coming.




https://theconservativetreehouse.co...ne-eyes-friday-for-senate-bbb-votes-to-begin/

So Friday is when the Byrd Rule objections will be lodged by the Democrats to the NFA provisions.

I am now on the edge of my seat.

 

[hlee]

Murdered?

What?

SOrry, I got my news feeds crosssed. I thought that rep from Minn was a US Rep. State Rep. Will edit...

 

[Redlion]

So Friday is when the Byrd Rule objections will be lodged by the Democrats to the NFA provisions.

I am now on the edge of my seat.

Yeah we really do not know what will happen with the Short Act and removing silencers from the NFA. If at least 47 GOP Senators vote yes, the Vance can be the tie breaker given that it is reconciliation. In the House, the GOP can have a couple no votes and still pass it if I am not mistaken?

 

[lash]

So Friday is when the Byrd Rule objections will be lodged by the Democrats to the NFA provisions.

I am now on the edge of my seat.

They have already been doing so with anything they can think of. That’s why some provisions have already been removed. But the short act and Suppressors (not silencers) directly relate to taxes. They should be safe under the Byrd Rule.

 

[rtB]

It's odd that the commie "parlamentarian" never brought up all the BS in previous omnibus bills.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

They have already been doing so with anything they can think of. That’s why some provisions have already been removed. But the short act and Suppressors (not silencers) directly relate to taxes. They should be safe under the Byrd Rule.

I hope you are correct in your prediction.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

Yeah we really do not know what will happen with the Short Act and removing silencers from the NFA. If at least 47 GOP Senators vote yes, the Vance can be the tie breaker given that it is reconciliation. In the House, the GOP can have a couple no votes and still pass it if I am not mistaken?

Why 47?

Are three Democrats voting for it?

We need 50 votes plus Vance, or 51 straight up, which means two or, at most, three can defect. And some might due to the lack of fiscal discipline in the bill.

 

[Redlion]

Why 47?

Are three Democrats voting for it?

We need 50 votes plus Vance, or 51 straight up, which means two or, at most, three can defect. And some might due to the lack of fiscal discipline in the bill.

I thought it was a simple majority for a reconciliation bill to pass in the Senate? GOP has 53 Senators and the Dems have 47. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[lash]

I hope you are correct in your prediction.

So do I. I didn’t say it as a prediction, I said it as a statement of the current situation. And ‘should’ was used because shit happens.

 

[doubloon]

It's odd that the commie "parlamentarian" never brought up all the BS in previous omnibus bills.

We see what we want to see.

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/08/05/reconciliation-congress-deep-dive-00049895

MacDonough broke the hearts of progressives on several occasions last year, including when she nixed the minimum wage from the Covid relief bill, which was passed using reconciliation, and rejected three different versions of immigration reform from the Democratic reconciliation bill that was eventually scrapped in December.

 

[clcustom1911]

A lot of people like communism until they can make money from it.

A lot of people like communism *because they make a lot of money from it *cough*jews*cough*

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I thought it was a simple majority for a reconciliation bill to pass in the Senate? GOP has 53 Senators and the Dems have 47. Correct me if I am wrong.

You are not wrong at all, but a majority is 51 votes, not 47.

You wrote:

If at least 47 GOP Senators vote yes, the Vance can be the tie breaker given that it is reconciliation

We need at least 50 GOP Senators to vote yes if three of them vote no.



Are you thinking six of them do not show up and vote on the :"Big, Beautiful Bill?"

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Where is my $5K DOGE dividend that trump hyped when they first kicked DOGE off? Or was that like all the other shit that was just to divert eyes & logical thinking?

 

[lash]

Where is my $5K DOGE dividend that trump hyped when they first kicked DOGE off? Or was that like all the other shit that was just to divert eyes & logical thinking?

He gave it to me…

 

[BurtG]

Seems like if someone at the fed level of politicians had some guts and wasn't just the usual garbage, you could pass a federal preemption bill using the interstate commerce clause (that the democrats have used for 100+ years to have fed rule over everything), to make it so States couldn't ban guns or knives or accessories that are federally legal and even have penalties for those who try.

But of course that's a bit of a dream.

Use that to pass constitutional carry nationwide too

 

[BurtG]

Back when all bicycle tires used tubes that had Schrader valves to inflate them, it was possible for a valve to back out and/or leak. That valve cap he showed in the picture could be used to tighten or replace a leaking Schrader valve.

Smh at people that don’t know what a valve stem tool is

We should be expanding tech ed. Instead they are shrinking it to make room for needing 2 foreign language classes to graduate

 

[Longshot231]

Where is my $5K DOGE dividend that trump hyped when they first kicked DOGE off? Or was that like all the other shit that was just to divert eyes & logical thinking?

You may not get the $5K but hopefully the DOGE cuts will take place during the rescission process.

 

[Longshot231]

Tell me if I'm wrong on this.

The text for the HPA and the SHORT act says, in part:

"EFFECTIVE DATE.—The amendments made by this section shall apply to calendar quarters beginning more than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act."

Let's say the Big Beautiful Bill is signed by President Trump on July 3rd.

90 days shall have elapsed on October 1st, which is the beginning of the 4th quarter. By my calculations the effective date will be January 1, 2026.

Thoughts?

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

You may not get the $5K but hopefully the DOGE cuts will take place during the rescission process.

I laughed when it was first thumped out there, as it was just more carrot & stick, mouth magic from a tick. I do not trust anything/body until, it/they can be. I have,... Never,... trusted any politician, and I damn sure do not trust the trumpster because of his huge ego.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Smh at people that don’t know what a valve stem tool is

We should be expanding tech ed. Instead they are shrinking it to make room for needing 2 foreign language classes to graduate

Modern society is why there are labels on the dessicant pack that say "do not eat."

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Modern society is why there are labels on the dessicant pack that say "do not eat."

You forgot the one, about stopping the engine before changing the belt/s. First time I seen that, I could not believe my eyes.

 

[BurtG]

You forgot the one, about stopping the engine before changing the belt/s. First time I seen that, I could not believe my eyes.

Thank the little hat lawyers and judges.

 

[lash]

Modern society is why there are labels on the dessicant pack that say "do not eat."

 

[NoDopes]

Smh at people that don’t know what a valve stem tool is

We should be expanding tech ed. Instead they are shrinking it to make room for needing 2 foreign language classes to graduate

Most kids in Chicago graduate without being able to read or write English. Not sure what you're talking about.