How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

[crossgun]

What can one truly expect from this platform? Reason I ask is that I continue to try to make mine shoot sub-MOA. Am I asking too much from the weapon in general?

Best I can get is 1 MOA and I feel it should be better because we all have bolt guns that are far better than 1 MOA.

Here is my set-up. 18" Krieger 1x7.7 Heavy Barrel with CMMG 0.920 gas block and OPS Break with integrated shoulder for a Model 15 can. Bolted on a Vltor MUR upper with Larue 13.2 FF rail. POF Billet lower with Geissele two-stage trigger. Magpul PRS stock and MIAD pistol grip.
Nightforce 5.5-22x56 NXS in a Larue LT104.

I have tried just about every load and type of ammo I can find in the 75gr. bullet weight.

For what I have invested in this rifle I guess I just want more!

How good is yours?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Nice SPR, should do sub-moa.

Mine holds under moa and its an WOA 18"SPR barrel with plain jane upper and lower-RRA two stage service trigger.

How fast are you trying to push the 75's? I find they like around 2700 and that the Hornady BTHP's do best in the 3 different AR's I've shot them in. They did better than 77SMK's for me.

How's your follow through?

 

[crossgun]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I have had other guys shoot it as well to take me out of the equation. Seems like if I really want get great groups I have to hold the shit out of it both in my shoulder and in my trigger hand.

What is thew twist rate on the WOA?

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Nice rifle. 1 MOA in the field is damn good. Depending on the chamber, if you want more try the JLK 80's and start by jamming them. I have one that shoots sub-MOA at 1000 at 2850fps like that, but I can't always make it do sub-MOA beyond 800 meters with me pulling the trigger. Don't hard-hold: get off the grip and pull the trigger straight back. I single-load to avoid funky recoil issues with gas-gun follow-through.

 

[jester5900]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Dont know about yours but I can shoot mine out to 960 with no problems with open sight bone stock govt. model shoot 62 gr. at 3400fps

 

[michealj]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Mine shoots sub MOA but for some reason not with 75gr. ammunition. I've tried handloads, Hornady 75gr. match and 5.56 TAP and maybe 40% of the time I can get MOA.

Once I switched to 77gr. loads, MOA became the norm. Mk262, Blackhills, FGMM, handloads all shoot MOA or better. Mine also likes Barnes 70gr. TSX handloads and 69gr. FGMM but hates Blackhills 68gr. ammunition. At 100 yards I get smaller groups with 77gr. Nosler bullets but at 600 yards I get smaller groups with 77gr. Sierra bullets.

Mine was tossed together with a Bushmaster lower, CMT upper, LMT 2 stage trigger, a WOA barrel, semi-auto BCG and a bolt that I've had for years.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: crossgun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What is thew twist rate on the WOA? </div></div>
I'm pretty sure the WOA is a 1:7 twist but it may be a little slower.

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont know about yours but I can shoot mine out to 960 with no problems with open sight bone stock govt. model shoot 62 gr. at 3400fps </div></div>What are the dimensions of the target and what are the groups/hits?

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I settled on 77gr SMK or Nosler Custom Competitions with about 25grs of Varget, mixed brass between LC and Winchester. Mine is also a WOA SPR 1:7 twist. I chronoed the load and it seemed slow at 2615-2625FPS. I don't mind as I have gotten a couple of groups in the 1/4 MOA area. Even had a group at 300 that was less then a inch. 1 MOA accuracy shouldn't be a problem with a WOA barrel.

 

[Victor Co Heather]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Wow, that's a really nice setup you have!

I just started shooting my rebuild of an SPRish AR. I've got about 100 rounds through it and it shoots just below MOA with BH 69gr. I'm running a Timney single stage match trigger set about 3lbs.

My barrel is a 20" SS Broughton 8 Twist.

 

[Mgordon]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I spent over $1100 for a complete upper one time and built into a setup like yours. I tried just about every load combo with just about every powder, bullet and case combo that i had on my shelf. Long story short it would not shoot sub MOA. I am very capable of shooting sub 1/2 MOA. I talked to the manufactuer and they told me "too bad,practice more"

So I sold it because I had no clue what to do...but now I know there are a few things you can try to see if it is capable of that accuracy.

-True the upper receiver face
-Recrown the barrel
-Break torque and retorque barrel nut
-Chech the gas system (make sure the gas tube has even wear where it goes in the carrier gas key)
-make sure the upper bolt raceway is true with the receiver extention, if there is any deflection it can also effect accuracy.

 

[deersniper]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I bought a LaRue stealth upper because they are supposed to be good. I can't get it to shoot sub moa. I have shot a few groups that were sub moa. Nothing consistent though. Not sure if its me or the gun. I went back to my AICS M700 .308 LTR. I can shoot .7 -.8 all day long with it. My .223 M700 easily holds .5 - .6 moa.

-dan

 

[scotharr]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Are you using a front and rear sandbag rest? The gun should be in a solid rest if you want to test its accuracy...and not yours.

A typical match barrel like Krieger should be able to shoot 1/2 MOA no problem. When you get lucky, you can get a 1/4 MOA barrel. Things that might impact accuracy:
ammunition
non-floated handrail
flash hider/break.
scope mounts that are not solid
sucky barrel
bolt that is not tightly matched to barrel.
Improperly cleaning the barrel and messing up the crown, throat.

I have a LaRue 16' Stealth that shoots 3/4MOA from a rest no problem. I have a custom rifle with Krieger 1:8 twist that shoots 1/2 MOA from a rest no problem. Shooting from field positions....well that's up to you.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Why is SUB-MOA such a big deal?

Last time I checked any thing that shoots MOA is a accurate rifle.

I think to many people spend to much time shooting groups than shooting COF's that push there ability.

Oh well, you guys keep on shooting groups trying to find that special bullet and powder combo and just stay the at the same skill level.

I have a AR-15 that has shot below MOA, and some times more than MOA. Do I care? NO!!! Why? Because I can hit the target where I want to hit it at 60% of the time 600yds and under.

Who cares how tight the rifle shoots, as long as it can hold MOA all day, you are GTG.

John

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

J. Boyette-

You make a good point! however if you shoot groups, it may be trying to find an accurate load so then you can load/buy it and then get out and shoot. Ive shot different ammo in groups at 100-200 yards with my bushmaster varminter to figure out what is more accurate. I want to find an accurate load so then you know its not the ammo, and so that your skill can improve at longer ranges.

if your all over at 100-200 yards, you will still be all over at 4-600 yards,and your skill will not improve. i agree anything that is 1/2 to 1 MOA is good!

for example, ive shot cheap silver break 62gr HP at 100-300 yards, and can hit a 6" target easily anywhere out to 300 yards... does it group well at 300 yards? no its all over (both horizontal and vertical)

not arguing with you, just stating my opinion also!

 

[sinister]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Original poster, what ranges are you shooting and have you tried Sierra 69s or Berger 73s?

If your rifle won't shoot those well, scrap the gun and start over.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Yes sir I am with you.

The smartest thing you can do, to take all the questions out of your quest is to do this.

Send your rifle to http://www.compasslake.com/ in the box tell them you can not get this rifle to group.

I had to do this because of a factory 24" rifle was cut down to 18". The 18" would not cycle.

So off it went to CLE and with in a week it came back fixed and ran like a Singer.

I then had CLE build me two other uppers a 18" SPR and a 16" RECCE.

Both rifles shoot SUB-MOA to 600yds <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"the longest shot with these rifles"</span></span> I would give them a call and send it. I bet you it will take them less than a month to get the rifle back to you and FIXED!!!!!!!

John

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont know about yours but I can shoot mine out to 960 with no problems with open sight bone stock govt. model shoot 62 gr. at 3400fps </div></div>

I would like to see the load data on this, a 62 at 3400 fps?!? do the primers fall out of the pockets after you fire them, I have been loading 223 for the better part of ten years, I have tried almost every combo of powders there is. I have never got a 55 over 3300 in a 26inch rig. I would believe that with a 45 grain bullet, but not a 62. More likely you will get 2900 maybe 3000 out of them.

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

John-

may i ask what CLE did to your rifle if they told you? and how much it costs?

Also what ammo/bullets are you using for the 600 yard sub MOA groups/shots?

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Keep in mind, that the national Match guys do shoot less then MOA @ 1k. But its slow fire and non mag fed rounds. Also MOA at 1k is 10 inch group.

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Yep i understand a MOA is 10" at 1000yards. Id be happy with a MOA at 300-600 yards! id be even happier when im able to hit clays at 600 yards!

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John-

may i ask what CLE did to your rifle if they told you? and how much it costs?

Also what ammo/bullets are you using for the 600 yard sub MOA groups/shots? </div></div>

I <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"think"</span></span> they drilled the gas port to the right size and aligned the gas block and a mechanical inspection of all parts. Like I posted, I think this is all they did. Cost, %75 + shipping to and from.

No joke. I place the rifle in the box and added a note that read " gun broke please fix it" within a week I had it back and it ran like a song bird.

That barrel is now on a LEO Sniper rifle of a friend of mines and its hitting GREAT with his build also.

Ammo, FGMM 69grn, FGMM 77grn, Wolf Gold 75grn all shot SUB-MOA is all four AR-15's I have tried. Three of these rifles where in my control.

The forth is a 20" CLE build a buddy of mine has.

You read here on the hide of all the great rifle builders like GAP, Terry Cross, Jerod and the like, CLE is my one stop shop for the BEST AR-15 rifle's. They have built many of killer service rifles and some of the first U.S. Military SPR rifles.

Trust them.

If they can not get it to shoot, they will tell you the issues and what it takes to fix it. Once you know what it taks its up to you to go forward. If you want to save $$$ send them the rifle and ell them to inspect it and please test fire it to see what issues are there and to inform you.

I promise you, they can fix it a whole lot cheaper and faster than some one else and have it RIGHT!!!!!!!!

John

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

One more thing,

You very well could have parallax issues, cheek weld issues, trigger control issues, body position issues, bi-pod issues, and what ever else you can think of.

Also you might want to try loading 6 rounds and only shoot 5 per group, the last round with bolt lock can move the last round out of a grouping and you think its a flyer.

I would look at alot of things and see what you can do to get it to hit right.

I would load a known load for the AR-15 and see what it does, also you might have issues with the timing.

How does the brass fly? Does it group in a nice little pile or is it all over the place?

Just some simple thoughts.

John

 

[jester5900]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

No they are 3400 cronneyed...

 

[jester5900]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

The targets are upper torsoe sized steels, shot both at 760 yards and at 960...Dont know minute of angle

 

[jester5900]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I think out of that 26 inch barrel you powder is all burnt before bullet comes out of barrel. you bullet drags for a bit then exits barrel.

 

[Shadow_Warrior]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Here is a Video we shot shooting my SPR at 650 yards. I believe we hit the paint can 3 of 5 times.
This was rapid fire with a 5-7 full value wind.
I was using my hunting load with the 60gr V-Max.
I also have a 16" REECE, which I feel is a much better platform.



SPR Video @ 650 Yards


[img:center]

[/img]

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep i understand a MOA is 10" at 1000yards. Id be happy with a MOA at 300-600 yards! id be even happier when im able to hit clays at 600 yards! </div></div> 1 MOA at 1000 yards is 10.47", but I take your point: the ablity to shoot 1 MOA at 300 is not the same test of shooter and equipment as is 1 MOA at 600. Shooting 5" clays at 500 meters is a regular drill for me that I find to be quite challenging.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No they are 3400 cronneyed... </div></div>Your chronograph is incorrect.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think out of that 26 inch barrel you powder is all burnt before bullet comes out of barrel. you bullet drags for a bit then exits barrel. </div></div> This may require further explanation.

 

[338LM]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Frank White (Compass Lake Engineering) and John Holliger (White Oak Precision) are top AR builders. If you do not want to waste your time and money then let them do it right for you. They will build or make your existing upper shoot. There are builders out there who's work is a hit and a miss, and there are two builders mentioned above who's work consistently hits.

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338LM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frank White (Compass Lake Engineering) and John Holliger (White Oak Precision) are top AR builders. If you do not want to waste your time and money then let them do it right for you. They will build or make your existing upper shoot. There are builders out there who's work is a hit and a miss, and there are two builders mentioned above who's work consistently hits.</div></div>And don't forget Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks, Bill Wylde and Scott Medesha. All of them KNOW from first-hand experience building reliable tackdrivers, in all barrel lengths, what the AR platforms are capable of. Most of the rest of us are only guessing.

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John-

may i ask what CLE did to your rifle if they told you? and how much it costs?

Also what ammo/bullets are you using for the 600 yard sub MOA groups/shots? </div></div>

I <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"think"</span></span> they drilled the gas port to the right size and aligned the gas block and a mechanical inspection of all parts. Like I posted, I think this is all they did. Cost, %75 + shipping to and from.

No joke. I place the rifle in the box and added a note that read " gun broke please fix it" within a week I had it back and it ran like a song bird.

That barrel is now on a LEO Sniper rifle of a friend of mines and its hitting GREAT with his build also.

Ammo, FGMM 69grn, FGMM 77grn, Wolf Gold 75grn all shot SUB-MOA is all four AR-15's I have tried. Three of these rifles where in my control.

The forth is a 20" CLE build a buddy of mine has.

You read here on the hide of all the great rifle builders like GAP, Terry Cross, Jerod and the like, CLE is my one stop shop for the BEST AR-15 rifle's. They have built many of killer service rifles and some of the first U.S. Military SPR rifles.

Trust them.

If they can not get it to shoot, they will tell you the issues and what it takes to fix it. Once you know what it taks its up to you to go forward. If you want to save $$$ send them the rifle and ell them to inspect it and please test fire it to see what issues are there and to inform you.

I promise you, they can fix it a whole lot cheaper and faster than some one else and have it RIGHT!!!!!!!!

John </div></div>

Thanks, thats interesting, and they can prolly take a good shooting rifle and make it even more accurate! I think after i run some match ammo through my AR i will get the results im looking for! I was looking at some prices on CLE and it was like $100 some dollars for some of their services, which doesnt seem too bad!

 

[Ratbert]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Do the folks that shot your rifle shoot their AR's to sub-MOA? Lock time on an AR is a bitch compared to what you might be used to on a modern bolt.

Who built the chamber?

 

[Ratbert]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I think after i run some match ammo through my AR i will get the results im looking for! </div></div>

Whoa... hang on a minute there... you haven't been shooting match ammo up til now? When you said you'd tried every kind of 75gr load you could find, what exactly did that mean?

...this is what I get for leaving the damn thread open all day long and then replying to the topic without refreshing all the new posts...

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<span style="font-weight: bold">jv101:</span>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">I think after i run some match ammo through my AR i will get the results im looking for</span></span>! </div></div>

Whoa... hang on a minute there... you haven't been shooting match ammo up til now? When you said you'd tried every kind of 75gr load you could find, what exactly did that mean?

...this is what I get for leaving the damn thread open all day long and then replying to the topic without refreshing all the new posts... </div></div>

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">I too would like my time back spent reading this and considering options.</span>

All the AR smiths mentioned are exceptional at their craft. Scottmilk9 here on the hide is pretty good as well.

 

[SuspendermanDan]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Shooting 1 MOA is rather standard for any 'ole AR...My practice rifle that was assembled mearly as a 'barrel burner' out of misceleaneous part just barely eeks that by with Sierra 77grain bullets.

I would try load devolopment first...it may help to seat the bullets longer so there is not as much 'jump'. Before I make myself sound foolish, and get myself caught with 'foot in mouth syndrome' and misuse a bunch of fancy wizbang terms...Handloading for Competition Use by Glenn Ziedeker gets far more technical than I ever could about handloading, and he also has a couple of books out about AR's

 

[ZOMBIE101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Go Noveske

 

[SuspendermanDan]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jv101</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">I think after i run some match ammo through my AR i will get the results im looking for</span></span>! </div></div>

Whoa... hang on a minute there... you haven't been shooting match ammo up til now? When you said you'd tried every kind of 75gr load you could find, what exactly did that mean?

...this is what I get for leaving the damn thread open all day long and then replying to the topic without refreshing all the new posts... </div></div>

I too would like my time back spent reading this and considering options.

All the AR smiths mentioned are exceptional at their craft. Scottmilk9 here on the hide is pretty good as well.
</div></div>*facepalm* New Suggestion:...just get some match ammo and be happy. Wow I feel stupid for my last post...should of caught this sooner.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 338LM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Frank White (Compass Lake Engineering) and John Holliger (White Oak Precision) are top AR builders. If you do not want to waste your time and money then let them do it right for you. They will build or make your existing upper shoot. There are builders out there who's work is a hit and a miss, and there are two builders mentioned above who's work consistently hits.</div></div>And don't forget Derrick Martin at Accuracy Speaks, Bill Wylde and Scott Medesha. All of them KNOW from first-hand experience building reliable tackdrivers, in all barrel lengths, what the AR platforms are capable of. Most of the rest of us are only guessing. </div></div>
it w
I have one of Derrick Martin AR, it is one of the best for reaching out, to be honest, it can shoot better then all of us put together

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No they are 3400 cronneyed... </div></div>


Time to purchase a new crony, or tell us what this new powder is cause that aint even close!!

 

[Ratbert]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cmonroe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: joker59</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No they are 3400 cronneyed... </div></div>


Time to purchase a new crony, or tell us what this new powder is cause that aint even close!!</div></div>

Gasoline, maybe?

 

[crossgun]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

John

Thanks for the info on Compass Lake. I was considering having them build me a new barrel but I like the "Broken Rifle" approach better. I know there are a million issues that make these things tick that are well let’s say far above my pay grade.

Most of the ammo I have been testing with is factory. I do not want to go the hand load route and even give myself bigger headaches even though I understand that the majority of factory ammo is crap! There are some good ones. I’m more of a grab the box and go to work kind of guy.

Let’s face it this particular rifle of mine is all about shooting tight groups. It's a range rifle if you will. One to show off with, one that is supposed to make you feel good. You know, the mine is bigger than yours AR. I just want to be the biggest guy in the locker room with this one.

I also know it doesn’t have the ass behind it to be a one shot stopper like the .30cals and it would not be my first choice for that kind of work. I have enough ARs that shoot minuet of scum bag. Don’t think that I own an AR with a red dot that I can’t feel a man's chest with holes at 300 quickly. In general I agree with you that we get to wrapped up in the accuracy issue and ignore the skills that are required to get the job done.

All, thanks for the info. From some of your posts it obvious to me that this thing should shoot better. While I have only used premium components, that doesn’t insure that they were properly made or assembled. I will call some of the builders you guys have mentioned and see who is up to the challenge. Much more to follow.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

OP,

You may want to start out accepting as fact that the bullet will always go in the direction the rifle is pointed. Therefore, rather than first trouble shooting the rifle or ammunition, begin your analysis by appraising your aim and trigger control.

With most any match grade rifle and ammunition mix today, the only thing necessary for sub MOA performance in a no-wind condition is properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment, and firing the rifle without moving it using smooth trigger control.

Instead of leaving the range saying "that gun don't shoot", or "that gun shoots better than I do", look at how your inconsistent connection with the rifle and/or ground may have effected your shooting.

One way to get a handle on it all is with good follow through. This will allow you to call your shots. Shots on call, but not where you want 'em will let you know the problem is originating, not from the gun, unless you've got something loose, but rather, likely, from your inconsisent control over the rifle.

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

everyone responding to my post about running match ammo through the gun:

1) i think some of you may feel that i am the OP of this thread, which i am not lol, i just put my 2cents in and what i have experienced/noticed in my AR!

2) i have tired some cheaper ammo that people said they had decent reults with, and i have also tried good varmint type ammo (55gr hornady v-max, and got HORRID results) i am on the hunt for some black hills 68gr, 69gr or 75gr for my bushmaster 24" 1:9 twist

3) i am in the process of picking out a route to go for building an AR so this thread isnt completly worthless! You guys have suggested some good ideas/given great info that I and the OP sh ould be greatful for!

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HomeOnTheRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Shooting 1 MOA is rather standard for any 'ole AR....</div></div>Nope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HomeOnTheRange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My practice rifle that was assembled mearly as a 'barrel burner' out of misceleaneous part just barely eeks that by with Sierra 77grain bullets.</div></div>I understand that it's free-floated, but what barrel and twist rate?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I apologize to crossgun for my post about the ammo, I didn't realize that he hadn't posted bac yet as I got to reading jv101 and JBoyette's conversation.


To sum up what a lot of folks have said pretty well:

An AR is not a boltgun and sometimes its harder to shoot well. The gasun is more demanding on followthrough and trigger control than a boltgun.
Shooting a 5 inch group at 600yards is not an easy task with even top of the line boltguns chambered in 223 with 75gr pills.
If you have the right twist for the bullets you want to shoot there are only a few things that will mechanically put the rounds out if the rifle is properly driven.

<span style="font-weight: bold">crossgun</span>-If that rifle will shoot 1moa all the time and sub moa a good amount of the time with 75gr Horandy's or 77gr SMK's it is probably in the finer points of technique where the problem lies.

If that rifle will not shoot 75/77's loaded to mag length at 2700fps-ish as well as you think it should, then I would take John Boyette's advice and have it take a trip to a good AR shop.

An SPR that shoots MOA at 100yds consistently is good to go. Mine is in that ballpark and held its own just fine at our monthly precision rifle match yesterday. I took it on a whim and we shot within 610yds and I placed right about where I usually do with my boltgun. I would have placed a little better if I didn't blow the 500yd cold bore by my scope being one revolution off (don't play with your scope at home), as my followup shot was dead nuts on the LaRue target, and would have place much better if I had brought a sling for our seated shots at 300.
The majority of my points lost were all me and either my technique or minor windage errors at distance.

JB and Sterling Shooter have very well coverd the crux of any AR issue.

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

BTW-a quick note on accurate loads in an SPR:
I personally thing that chasing loads longer than mag length defeats the purpose of an SPR. Its fine for single loading the prone stages at a Highpower match, but an SPR should be ran from the magazine or it kind of defeats the purpose that is the "special purpose" in SPR.

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

Sobrbiker883-

i know this is about the SPR but while we are on the topics of AR's at 100 yards what do you think a Bushmaster Varminter 24" barrel 1:9 twist should be shooting with match grade ammo? 1/2 MOA?

im not meaning to hijack anyones thread, im just wanting to learn and get opinions as much as i can!

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

I'm really not a good one to ask, as the only group shooting I do is checking a load. I can't shoot groups for crap and don't really bother much. 3/4 minute at 100 is about the best it gets with me shooting really good rifles. I can get a great group every once in a while........

I prefer to shoot one round each at 3/4 inch dots at 100. If the rifle and I can hit them 75% of the time I consider it good to go.

1/2moa groups "all day long" are in my opinion internet bullshit.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

1/2moa groups "all day long" are in my opinion internet bullshit.

</div></div>

Can I get a AMEN BROTHER on that one!!!!!!!!!!

John

 

[Graham]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1/2moa groups "all day long" are in my opinion internet bullshit.</div></div>Can I get a AMEN BROTHER on that one!!!!!!!!!!John </div></div>That covers that topic quite well, in my opinion.

A few half-inch three shot groups at less than 300, as selected from many: sure, no problem. Consistent half-MOA five shot groups at beyond 200: difficult. Center-punch a 3/8" dot consistently at 100 yards with your AR: Possible; I want to see that posted here.

How about some of these "1 MOA - no problem" guys posting ten center hits on ten one-inch dots at 100 yards; any takers? And for you "960 any day" guys, how about posting your five shot group at 1000, shot in NO wind, that measures under 15". Anyone up for that?

 

[jv101]

Re: How Accurate can an AR SPR really be?

HA

well what i am kind of asking is 1/2 MOA at 100 yards isnt complete bull shit for a varmit style AR now is it?

i mean 1/2 MOA at 600+ yards seems like BS to me, is it possible? sure people can do it!

kind of get what im asking at all?