Just curious is it because the 6 and 6.5's are just as good with not as much recoil? I had one once and wish I never sold it, it was a great cartridge. Just trying to learn.
- Thread starter millertime2
- Start date
During the worst of the last panic there was always a stack of 7mm RM on the funstore shelves. The 7mm RM is defintely an under appreciated round.
I noticed that too. Even in the big box stores there seemed to always be 7mm mag on the shelves all through the first half of this year.
if you're going to use a magnum round the 300 win mag will do everything the 7mm will do just a bit better, with a bit more bullet versatility. Especially in hunting situations when you want to put energy on target. Some consider the 7mm a little light for the bigger game species.
I agree that it is a great round as well, just not as popular as the 300
I agree that it is a great round as well, just not as popular as the 300
If you are shooting a big magnum, you can take advantage of high BC 30 cal bullets, better than what you'll get for 7mm. 7mm and 300 WM are a wash in terms of recoil. Might as well put a big BC bullet downrange and hit with more horsepower. For these reasons, a 300 WM will do everything a 7mm Mag will do and do it better. All that said, a 7MM Rem Mag is fine to use and there is a descent selection of factory (hunting) ammo available for it.
From an efficiency standpoint, The 7mm is king of the ballistic coefficient in smaller cartridges using less powder to do more, with less recoil. I am not shooting at any game beyond 800 so horsepower is a non issue. Heck, I am at a bc of .625 in a 162 grain projectile, that is bad ass. Over .64 bc in the 180 Bergers but like the speed of the lighter amax.
Look at the Berger 7mm 180 doing 3000+ and get back with me. The 7's are the shit for LR hunting.
they use to be more popular, than many match shoots went no-magnums
How come 7mm rem mag isn't more popular
A belted magnum, to be accurate, should be chambered to headspace at the shoulder. That's one reason why. But I would not hesitate to build a precision rifle in 7 Rem Mag if it was done that way.... And I might yet do just that.
A belted magnum, to be accurate, should be chambered to headspace at the shoulder. That's one reason why. But I would not hesitate to build a precision rifle in 7 Rem Mag if it was done that way.... And I might yet do just that.
+1, got rid of my 300 to build a 7saum. Way badass, less recoil, flatter trajectory, whats not to love.
I love the round. Can shoot a mile. Bucks the wind. easy to load. Got a sendero and just finished a full custom on a Stiller and Krieger
After a night of drinking and coming home to read these posts. I'm buying or building another 7mm! Now just to get it past the wife.
It's not popular because it's not new anymore. It's all about marketing. That's it, nothing more.
Take the 30-06 for example, an absolute wonderful round, but when the military went .308 it killed the popularity of the '06. Everyone wants new, or military. There is nothing wrong with the 7 mag. In fact, the marketing of the 7 mag is what put the .264 Win mag out of business, which is a ballistically superior round. Sad case with a lot of old cartridges, they lose popularity and get pushed to the wayside because company X is trying to outsell company Y. The .243 Win killed the .257 Roberts, the 300 win mag killed the 300 H&H, the .223 Rem killed the .222, etc. One of the reasons is suspect is that people have slowly learned that it doesn't take that much power to kill large game at long distances, or win matches. Faster used to be better, at least that was the old way of thinking. Nowadays you can do most all with short action cartridges that you can the magnums, sure, you don't have the same energy down range, but they are accurate and have enough energy to get the job done. That's my opinion for what it's worth.
Take the 30-06 for example, an absolute wonderful round, but when the military went .308 it killed the popularity of the '06. Everyone wants new, or military. There is nothing wrong with the 7 mag. In fact, the marketing of the 7 mag is what put the .264 Win mag out of business, which is a ballistically superior round. Sad case with a lot of old cartridges, they lose popularity and get pushed to the wayside because company X is trying to outsell company Y. The .243 Win killed the .257 Roberts, the 300 win mag killed the 300 H&H, the .223 Rem killed the .222, etc. One of the reasons is suspect is that people have slowly learned that it doesn't take that much power to kill large game at long distances, or win matches. Faster used to be better, at least that was the old way of thinking. Nowadays you can do most all with short action cartridges that you can the magnums, sure, you don't have the same energy down range, but they are accurate and have enough energy to get the job done. That's my opinion for what it's worth.
This!!!!!
Never was real popular here with ammo on the shelves. Enjoyed its most popularity in the 70s into the early 80s but has really fainted since. Why, I agree with marketing and the American love for 30 cals. It a bigger is better thought but there has been a small paradyme shift to smaller is just as good but hunters still like bigger is mo better.
Biggest draw back to a 7mm Mag is accurate, repeatable barrel life.
The 7 humps the 300 into submission, and I can't know why anyone would want it any other way
I couldn't decide between the 300 Wm or the 7mm RM..... So I decided on a hybrid.
I'm gonna have RBros chamber a 7mm Bartlein barrel for my DTA in 7mm Rogue.
300 Wm case, 7mm bullet.
Easy to load, readily available 300 Wm brass, 3200+ fps out of a Berger Hybrid...... What's not to love?
I'm gonna have RBros chamber a 7mm Bartlein barrel for my DTA in 7mm Rogue.
300 Wm case, 7mm bullet.
Easy to load, readily available 300 Wm brass, 3200+ fps out of a Berger Hybrid...... What's not to love?
Well, outside of the extremely narrow world of "tactical marksmanship", the US centerfire rifle market is largely driven by a bunch of hunters and wanna-be Fudds. Those people have established patterns of purchasing behavior that make it extremely difficult for the 7mmRM to achieve the sort of popularity that we might associate with the 300WM:
1) One caliber has a bullet with a nominal diameter of .308". That makes it magical in the eyes of many American gun owners. Did a 7mm win WWII for us? Enough said.
2) One caliber is "metric", while the other is not. I wish I were kidding, but this seems to be a real hang-up for a lot of people (in hindsight, should Remington have called this the ".284 Rem Mag"?)
3) Up to a certain point, American hunters think that larger calibers are better (just don't go too big, or else the gunwriters will speak of "ferocious recoil").
4) Most American hunters don't give a rat's ass about ballistics. Any number other than muzzle velocity/energy is pretty much ignored, because it requires too much thinking.
5) There is a strong herd mentality; once a cartridge establishes a toehold in the market - no matter what the reason - it will have a strong advantage for no other reason than familiarity. A lot of people show off their guns far more often than they shoot their guns, and they're often showing them off to people who know little/nothing about firearms. To that sort of prospective audience, a 300 Win Mag might be perceived as sounding far more impressive than a more esoteric choice.
6) Barrel life, perceived or otherwise, seems to always come up in conversations about magnum chamberings. Ignore the fact that the vast majority of those rifles will never experience a round count beyond double-digits.
All that being said, the practical difference between the 300WM and 7mmRM for the vast majority of American shooters just isn't all that significant. That virtually assures that one of the cartridges would "win" the marketing game based upon reasons that have little to do with real-world effectiveness. And making matters worse, the industry "bracketed" the perforce of the 7mmRM with a number of other cartridges (.284 Win, 7mm STW, 7mm RUM, 7mm WSM, 7mm SAUM, etc.).
But if there were any sense in the marketing and purchasing behaviors in the firearms industry, we'd have far less to talk about on the Internet
1) One caliber has a bullet with a nominal diameter of .308". That makes it magical in the eyes of many American gun owners. Did a 7mm win WWII for us? Enough said.
2) One caliber is "metric", while the other is not. I wish I were kidding, but this seems to be a real hang-up for a lot of people (in hindsight, should Remington have called this the ".284 Rem Mag"?)
3) Up to a certain point, American hunters think that larger calibers are better (just don't go too big, or else the gunwriters will speak of "ferocious recoil").
4) Most American hunters don't give a rat's ass about ballistics. Any number other than muzzle velocity/energy is pretty much ignored, because it requires too much thinking.
5) There is a strong herd mentality; once a cartridge establishes a toehold in the market - no matter what the reason - it will have a strong advantage for no other reason than familiarity. A lot of people show off their guns far more often than they shoot their guns, and they're often showing them off to people who know little/nothing about firearms. To that sort of prospective audience, a 300 Win Mag might be perceived as sounding far more impressive than a more esoteric choice.
6) Barrel life, perceived or otherwise, seems to always come up in conversations about magnum chamberings. Ignore the fact that the vast majority of those rifles will never experience a round count beyond double-digits.
All that being said, the practical difference between the 300WM and 7mmRM for the vast majority of American shooters just isn't all that significant. That virtually assures that one of the cartridges would "win" the marketing game based upon reasons that have little to do with real-world effectiveness. And making matters worse, the industry "bracketed" the perforce of the 7mmRM with a number of other cartridges (.284 Win, 7mm STW, 7mm RUM, 7mm WSM, 7mm SAUM, etc.).
But if there were any sense in the marketing and purchasing behaviors in the firearms industry, we'd have far less to talk about on the Internet
You know what fellas. Let them ignore the cartridge. Mine needs plenty of ammo to eat and it isn't all that accurate
You know what fellas. Let them ignore the cartridge. Mine needs plenty of ammo to eat and it isn't all that accurate
What load you using? Nice group, got mine to about .4 Moa, it likes 162 amax and 180 Bergers loaded way out.
IMO, this is one of the few instances where 7 is greater than 7.62 unless you *absolutely* need downrange energy.
My 7RM kicks less than a 308 w/o a brake so I dont beleve you need to be too concerned about recoil.
180 Berger Target VLDs
69.0g H1000
Winchester brass
CCI large mag primers
3.404 OAL
2840fps
Yards1075.0
Velocity1582.3
Ft/lbs1000.7
Drop29.61
Drift 6.1
1000ft lbs is usually elk dropping power. I have a very very mild load for my rig since its a target build so I can shoot quick and not burn my barrel out but even with it being so mild it still has elk dropping power at 1100 yards. Not going to be making too many hunting shots at that distance.
JMO
QUOTE=BoilerUP;2684072]IMO, this is one of the few instances where 7 is greater than 7.62 unless you *absolutely* need downrange energy.[/QUOTE]
Velocity1582.3
Ft/lbs1000.7
Drop29.61
Drift 6.1
1000ft lbs is usually elk dropping power. I have a very very mild load for my rig since its a target build so I can shoot quick and not burn my barrel out but even with it being so mild it still has elk dropping power at 1100 yards. Not going to be making too many hunting shots at that distance.
JMO
QUOTE=BoilerUP;2684072]IMO, this is one of the few instances where 7 is greater than 7.62 unless you *absolutely* need downrange energy.[/QUOTE]
That works until a few hundred yards and then the higher BC and inherently higher launch speeds over a 300WM mean that the 7RM outclasses it in momentum and energy at long distance.
mwroseberry,
I'm not saying they won't expire with good shot placement and 1000 lb-ft but usually that is the stated number for deer. Elk is 1500 lb-ft some places state 1200 lb-ft so really it depends on who you want to believe. YMMV but a hole through the vitals is bad no matter what caused it.
I'm not saying they won't expire with good shot placement and 1000 lb-ft but usually that is the stated number for deer. Elk is 1500 lb-ft some places state 1200 lb-ft so really it depends on who you want to believe. YMMV but a hole through the vitals is bad no matter what caused it.
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I just got finished building this unit in 7rm , there is no arguing the down range energy retention and accuracy of this cal with high BC bullets , I will never be talked out of my affection for its performance my "Dead Shed" is full of satisfied customers ;-)
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A wash in terms of recoil? Thats a joke! My significantly heavier 300 win mag (Sendero) with brake kicks more than my old Browning A Bolt 7 mag (no brake) ever thought of. You can shoot a 7 mag without a brake all day long. I challenge you to do the same with a 300 win mag and no brake. Before you know it, your flinching left and right and ready to hang it up.
Berger Hunting Bullets 270 Caliber (277 Diameter) 130 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail - •Ballistic Coefficient: 0.452
Berger Hunting Bullets 270 Caliber (277 Diameter) 150 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail - •Ballistic Coefficient: 0.531 - Heaviest Bullet made by Berger for 270
Berger Hunting Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 190 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail - •Ballistics Coefficient: 0.570
Berger Hunting Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 210 Grain VLD Hollow Point Boat Tail - •Ballistics Coefficient: 0.631
Berger Hybrid Target Bullets 30 Caliber (308 Diameter) 230 Grain Hollow Point Boat Tail - •Ballistics Coefficient: 0.743
Heavier bullets typically have higher BC's
Ok i admit defeat on the 230 grain newer offering.
My catalog shows a 7mm 180gr VLD with a 0.659 G1 BC. 180 SMK's are also comparable. Now what about velocities? How fast are you guys pushing those 230's?
Ditto on recoil, 7RM is a kitten compared to 300WM's I've shot.
My catalog shows a 7mm 180gr VLD with a 0.659 G1 BC. 180 SMK's are also comparable. Now what about velocities? How fast are you guys pushing those 230's?
Ditto on recoil, 7RM is a kitten compared to 300WM's I've shot.
SAUM rifles are the way to go for light, accurate, hard hitting mountain hunting rifles IMHO. Im not shooting at anything bigger than a red deer (in New Zealand) and the 7 mil short action magnums and SAUM do the job. For NZ game there is a wildcat called the 7mil Fatso which is a shortened, necked down, 338LM case to fit in a short action. This provides amazing external and terminal ballistic performance on mid sized game, using the 180 Bergers. Just my two cents worth.
I hate to be seen as rude, but .270 and 7mm are two different animals.
The .30 pills do offer higher BC than the .270, but when compared to the
7mm, it's not near as lopsided.
The 7mm Berger hunting bullets start @ .515 and go up, see below.
7 MM
140 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .284 140 0.510 0.261 11 28503
168 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .284 168 0.617 0.316 10 28501
168 gr Match Grade Classic Hunter .284 168 0.604 0.309 10 28570
180 gr Match Grade VLD Hunting .284 180 0.659 0.337 9 28502
Look at .284" bullets, since that is what a 7mm uses. The Berger 168gr .284 hunting bullet has a G1 BC of 0.604, if memory serves correctly.
And if you extrapolate the 270's form factor into a 175gr bullet to more accurately compare the sectional densities it's 0.620 for a bullet that a 270 Win can still throw around 2850fps.
But since the question is more of a 7mm (as defined by the shooting industry) vs. 30cal debate and the 270 caliber (actually 7mm, but 27 as defined by the shooting industry) we have this instead
180gr 7mm Berger Hybrid 0.675 untipped, 0.705 tipped
189 Cuaterrucio 0.703 (without tipping, 0.72x tipped)
190 Matrix 0.702 untipped, est 0.732 tipped
All of the above will go well in excess of 3000fps from a 7WSM, 3100fps from a 7RM, and 3200 from a 7 Dakota.
All of the 7's listed above have lower case capacity than the 300WM and when the numbers are compared for trajectory, energy, and momentum on target at long distance the 7's beat the 300. The 230 Berger posted above is more like 2800-2850fps (really HOT) from a 300WM
Compare that to a 0.7G1 at 3100fps and the performance is pretty much identical. It takes the heaviest, highest performance 30 on the market to compete with any of the 7's from any of 3 different manufacturers and a smaller capacity rifle case.
TO match the capacities and give the 7's another 100fps (7 Dakota vs. 300Win) the edge goes to the 7 immediately.
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Sorry fellas. I didn't mean to use the 270. It was past my bedtime.
the reason for this is that the "typical" whitetail deer hunter that uses a 7mm mag, or a 300 mag, never shoots the thing unless they are shooting at game. can't handle the recoil at the bench. as a result, a single box of 20 rounds can last a long time.
no offense intended toward those who take the time to properly learn to drive a mag. unfortunately, such folks are decidedly in the minority, in my observation.
