So I built a plumb bob but how do I know if my rifle itself is level when checking the reticle against the plumb bob line?
Rifle Scopes How do I know if my Rifle is level?
- Thread starter ImBuckNekkid
- Start date
Are you mounting a scope? Bubble levels seem to be the best method. One in the action and another on top of the scope. Or you can get a level that mounts to your rail
Get the rifle comfortable and get the reticle level. So long as the reticle is level/ plumb you are good to go.
Yes. I already mounted the scope. I used a plumb bob to level the scope, but now I’m curious if I made the mistake of not having my rifle itself level...
Turns out my mind was just messing with me.
Thanks for your help.
Should it be level? Yes.
Should one worry about it once the reticle has been leveled? I don't, because while there are norms about what's proper, there are other norms as well, and each of them bears some morsel of truth.
Moreover there will be some deviation from vertical as a product of operator error even when the reticle is 'properly' leveled.
The optics aren't the weak links, we are.
In each and every instance regarding accuracy faults, look in the mirror first.
Turn it around; equipment can only perform its role if the operator does theirs first.
The equipment is a tool. The accuracy is in the marksmanship basics, and how well the operator adheres to them.
If one's accuracy requirements depends on factors of a smaller consequence, there are so many of those that such expectations will probably never get met. One must accept that even when everything works, including the operator, there will be dispersion; and we all learn to live with some of that.
Misses happen, or else there would be no basis for keeping score. Misses will probably only go away when he operator gets removed from the equation.
I would not participate then.
Greg
Should one worry about it once the reticle has been leveled? I don't, because while there are norms about what's proper, there are other norms as well, and each of them bears some morsel of truth.
Moreover there will be some deviation from vertical as a product of operator error even when the reticle is 'properly' leveled.
The optics aren't the weak links, we are.
In each and every instance regarding accuracy faults, look in the mirror first.
Turn it around; equipment can only perform its role if the operator does theirs first.
The equipment is a tool. The accuracy is in the marksmanship basics, and how well the operator adheres to them.
If one's accuracy requirements depends on factors of a smaller consequence, there are so many of those that such expectations will probably never get met. One must accept that even when everything works, including the operator, there will be dispersion; and we all learn to live with some of that.
Misses happen, or else there would be no basis for keeping score. Misses will probably only go away when he operator gets removed from the equation.
I would not participate then.
Greg
Last edited:
I use bubble levels; one on the rifle and one on the elevation turret. I used to use the reticle and a plumb-bob, but I’ve found in several of my scopes that the reticle may not be exactly straight up relative to the turret.
Of the two, it is the TURRET that must be straight for the scope to track right; the reticle is just for looking through. I’ve tested this with tall targets and trust me, the reticle can be crooked but the scope can track straight.
Now, that’s assuming you’re dialing for elevation instead of holding with the reticle. In one of my Leupolds, for instance,the reticle is canted ~4°right, but I dial the elevation so I leveled the turret. With my Tango6T 1-6 LPVO, on the other hand, I use the reticle and never touch the turret caps, so I leveled the reticle. Your preferred MO will dictate which way you should set up your scope.
It’d be wonderful if a scope’s reticle and turrets were always perfectly aligned, but in my experience that isn’t a safe assumption. Scopes are machines built to tolerances.
Of the two, it is the TURRET that must be straight for the scope to track right; the reticle is just for looking through. I’ve tested this with tall targets and trust me, the reticle can be crooked but the scope can track straight.
Now, that’s assuming you’re dialing for elevation instead of holding with the reticle. In one of my Leupolds, for instance,the reticle is canted ~4°right, but I dial the elevation so I leveled the turret. With my Tango6T 1-6 LPVO, on the other hand, I use the reticle and never touch the turret caps, so I leveled the reticle. Your preferred MO will dictate which way you should set up your scope.
It’d be wonderful if a scope’s reticle and turrets were always perfectly aligned, but in my experience that isn’t a safe assumption. Scopes are machines built to tolerances.
Interesting phenomenon. I would think it is difficult to consciously avoid keeping the reticle level/plumb while shooting either rifle.
It is, at least for the Leupold. I put a USO folding level under it, and that helps.
I don’t have a whole lot of rifles and scopes, but I have two with slightly canted reticles, so it can’t be uncommon.
I have a new book coming out: OCD Like Me: A Definitive Guide To Precision Rifle Setup. On page 5280 we actually leave the work bench and take the rifle to the range. 1760 chapters that will answer every nuance of every question you've ever had on precision rifle setup.
Might take me another 10 years to write my OCD Like Me: A Handloaders Guide to Brass Prep....but look for it Spring of 2030.
Might take me another 10 years to write my OCD Like Me: A Handloaders Guide to Brass Prep....but look for it Spring of 2030.
There’s a few issues here.
Mostly, our eyes/brain/vestibular sense is going to subconsciously plumb the reticle when we get behind the rifle and on target.
So, if the turrets are misaligned enough time exhibit your example, we have a problem regardless. As we will constantly be fighting it one way or another.
If you find when your reticle is level and your adjustments do not track properly......if it’s enough to be outside of manufacturers specs, you send it back. Not level it to the essentially broken system.
The reticle is where we focus most of our visual attention to. So, we need that to be our main gauge of cant/plump.
Anytime you do not plumb the reticle to gravity you have introduced a very significant error into the shooter/rifle system.
Now, you can no longer rely on the reticle for reference. You must rely on an external level. This is very, very bad.
Anytime you do not plumb the reticle to gravity you have introduced a very significant error into the shooter/rifle system.
Now, you can no longer rely on the reticle for reference. You must rely on an external level. This is very, very bad.
I certainly don’t disagree. I have been in contact with the manufacturer of both scopes. The Sig LPVO I decided to keep since I don’t dial it; just leveled the reticle. I did send the 3-18 to Leupold and they sent it back untouched and without comment. I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt that I didn’t make myself clear. I’m currently using the scope, but intend on sending it back again once I figure out how to better describe the issue.
Funny, I was just talking about this elsewhere on the webz.
Does anyone else check this before installing a scope? I level the bottom under the turrets and check against a plumb-bob.
The optics I use level their reticle with the flat under the turret body. So, I level that and then check.
Copy. That’s what I do as well. I wonder if more people did that if there’d be more documented issues.
I would think that the bottom is more likely to be "squared up" than a turret knob that may have been lifted/removed/replaced and not perfectly straight on the shaft when tightened down.
That's a perfectly reasonable way of doing.
If your reticle and turrets do not line-up, but the turret adjustment is linear, you can choose to line-up one or the other, but only that one will be usable for holdover and wind: turrets or reticle.
Or you could send the scope back to the manufacturer and make them fix it.
Personally, I'd go with door #2, but that's just me.
ILya
Like I said, that’s been done and I’ll be doing it again soon.
The only reason I bring it up here is because I see a lot of people leveling their scopes using a plumb line and the reticle. I’ve learned (the hard way) that the reticle and the turrets are basically two separate systems, and one should first check that they both point to the same “up and down.”
Thanks koshkin for weighing in here.
I guess I should mention FWIW that my two examples of canted reticles didn’t happen to me on cheapo’s either (by my standards anyway, but I don’t have crazy expensive tastes yet). They were both from reputable manufacturers in the $1-2k range.
