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Rifle Scopes How hard do I have to cry?

B

beochie

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Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 17, 2009
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After getting my Vortex for my ar(very happy I spent the extra $ over what I'm used to) and getting screwed buy Springfield armory(a "gift" from my dad) I'm taking everyone's advice about the buy once cry once for getting a scope for my rifle.


Everyone says "Buy a good scope you'll be happy for a very, very long time. Buy once cry once. It will outlast your guns."

My question is, how hard do I have to cry?

Will a $1500 NF cut it? or will I have wished I bought a 2500 S&B instead?

I live in Michigan so 600+ yard shots very rare. Could I even notice a difference, I'm a rec. shooter.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Get as much scope as you can afford. You live in Michigan now but things change.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

The is no substitute for high quality glass!! The cutting edge vs. the bleeding edge is user dependent. One man's S&B or Hensoldt is another man's Nighforce and so on.

The best advice I can give you is to try to find someplace where you can look through many different scopes/models/magnifications/etc. in a short period of time and draw your own conclusions as to what best meets your needs. Not everyone needs a $3k+ scope, but once you move to a high-end scope (NF included in that equation), it will be difficult for you to accept anything less.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Also think about what you will be using it for.....you stated you are a rec shooter, same as me. I have looked through a few different high end optics. Yes I can see the difference in quality. Personally, I just picked up a PST 6-24, haven't recieved it yet, but I liked the price and the things that were being said about it. Zeiss Conquest would be a nice optic in the $850 and under range if you can afford it. I can see spending $1600 or so on a NF, it might be my next buy if I can look through it, but like I said.....I'm a rec shooter and have no recent plans in becoming a comp shooter or getting into F class shooting. Buy what you can afford, and if it is a $500 optic, be happy with it. You are the one shooting it.

At the end of the day it's going to come down to what you want and how you will apply the optic to your shooting. Just my $.02 Good luck.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Spend what you can and buy the best you can afford but something that fits your needs in power range, FFP, adjustments etc.

What's your max price range? Lots of good scopes with excellent features out there now. Many more than just 5 years ago. You shouldn't have to cry too hard to get a good scope.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

depends on what your used to, personally, i see them all and i'm still happy with my nightforce, do i see a difference moving to s&b or Hensoldt, heck yes. i can always justify a nightforce, just make sure the reticle and turrets match, and zero stop is worth the extra $ for the most part, for some applications you don't need it, but it's always nice to have
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

When I was young, I was given advice not to test drive a car I couldn't afford. Fortunately, in the scope world - quality exists at all price points; it's not a linear relationship between quality and price. Although I love my Hensoldt, the view through my cheap Nikon was incredible for the price. The Nikon just didn't have the features and ruggedness for abuse. I say buy at the top end of what you can afford, but don't overkill. A quality scope can re-sell if not abused later; it'll be like renting for a couple hundred dollars. That'll allow you a change of heart years later.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Whatever your price range, be sure and keep your eyes peeled in the used section of the site. Scopes can be found there on occasion as alot less than retail, sometimes for around 60% of what they would cost new.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

An answer to the original question would be about $1700. I say that because the Nightforce 3.5-15X and 5.5-22X are in about that range. I believe that Nightforce is just about at the entry to high end optics, with the likes of Premier, S&B, and Hensoldt at the head.

I find Nightforce good enough for me. The difference between Nightforce and "lesser" brands was enough to make it worthwhile for me to pay the difference in price. On that same line, there isn't enough of a difference, to me, between NF and the "upper" brands to make the difference in price worth while, to me.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">depends on what your used to, personally, i see them all and i'm still happy with my nightforce, do i see a difference moving to s&b or Hensoldt, heck yes. i can always justify a nightforce, just make sure the reticle and turrets match, and zero stop is worth the extra $ for the most part, for some applications you don't need it, but it's always nice to have </div></div>
Jay is spot on. I looked through S&B, Hensoldt,and Zeiss but could not justify the small difference in quality over the Nightforce scopes. I now own 3 NF's and couldn't be happier with their performance.
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Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Golly! You know your hobby is expensive when a $1400 "accessory" is "entry level luxury" (for lack of a better term). I need to start collecting rocks. They're free.

I ordered the Viper PST SFP and I'm hoping that for $800 it's the last scope I'm going to need for a while. I'd love to have a NF or USO but for a recreational shooter that has a limited budget that price is so hard to justify. I just think about where else that money could go instead of being used to aid in punching holes through paper once a week or so.

Anyways, staying on topic. Go with NF and don't look back. Just because you can't afford the Bugatti doesn't mean the Ferrari will be a letdown.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Opticsspecialist</div><div class="ubbcode-body">depends on what your used to, personally, i see them all and i'm still happy with my nightforce, do i see a difference moving to s&b or Hensoldt, heck yes. i can always justify a nightforce, just make sure the reticle and turrets match, and zero stop is worth the extra $ for the most part, for some applications you don't need it, but it's always nice to have </div></div>
Jay is spot on. I looked through S&B, Hensoldt,and Zeiss but could not justify the small difference in quality over the Nightforce scopes. I now own 3 NF's and couldn't be happier with their performance.
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+1

I'll add to this.I have a Bushnell 3-12x44 FFP.It's not as fancy as my NF's which are superior of course but it does just about everything I could want.Especially if 600Y was the max range I was shooting.I'd say if you can easily afford a H or S&B to get one but if not then don't sweat it.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I had a NF, sold it to buy 2 PST's. during the wait, I bought 2 weaver tacticals but recently sold 1 of those. The PST's and weavers never let me down. I have yet to see/shoot something with the NF that I can't do with the other 2 brands...
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

You dont have to have FFP.

Im so tired of seeing people clain that if its not FFP, then its not quality.

Id take a NF any day over some off these new ffp crazed scopes.

Thats why I decided I would rather have 2 NF, over 1 S&B.

Personally, I also dont agree with " Buy whatever quality you can afford"

Buy a practical scope for what you are going to use it for. Dont just spend extra needlessly. Afterall, what good is any scope without a quality base and rings, and match ammo.

Sure a S&B and Hendsoldt makes a sweet scope, but for what I shoot in, then NF does just as well and I have enough left over to buy ammo and more rifles.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I think that a lot of it is also a matter of what you grow used to. I got a SFP PST in a couple of weeks ago. Mounted it up, zeroed it and had what I perceived to be some troubles with the scope. I sent the scope in to Vortex and they called me and told me that nothing is wrong with the scope. Boy, did I feel like a dum ass.

Apparently, I was just used to using NF scopes and had a couple of issues with the PST that are non issues with the NF.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beochie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I live in Michigan so 600+ yard shots very rare. Could I even notice a difference, I'm a rec. shooter.
</div></div>

You don't need to spend a bunch of money to hit your target. Just don't buy shit, buy the best thing that you can afford and you'll be good to go.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Spend what you can afford, if 2500 is pushing it for you just grab the NF and be happy with that. If you really think that the farthest you will go for the most part is 600 yards, I think the Nf will be plenty of glass for you.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: E3C3H3O3</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spend what you can afford, if 2500 is pushing it for you just grab the NF and be happy with that. If you really think that the farthest you will go for the most part is 600 yards, I think the Nf will be plenty of glass for you. </div></div>

Hell for 600 yards a NF is MORE than enough. Guys shoot the Bushnell 4200s out to 800-1000+ without issue.

What it comes down to is this:

MOST scopes on the market in MOST situations (meaning civvie duties) will get you where you want to go. The question is how much do you want to spend to get there?
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

What is really great is that right now, you can buy scopes at a very reasonable price point that are superior to the best scopes available 30 years ago.

You really can't go wrong with a NF, IOR makes some dandy scopes as well, but in both cases, we are talking 1000+.

There are many scopes out there that are great hunting scopes that can be had for less than 700 dollars.
The Nitrex line, the Bushnell Elite series, Burris, Trijicon, Nikon Monarch and Luepold hunting scopes. Vortex has also released a series of the PST scopes intended for hunting. Sightron makes some very nice scopes with a reputation for excellent glass.

There will always be a bit of glass envy, unless you go out and buy the very top of the line Swaro, Hensoldt, Premier or S&B, you will always have that "I wish I could have afforded one of those".
I have an older bausch and laumb elite 3000 4-12 AO that is one of mt go to scopes. It doesn't have target turrets (not needed on most hunting rifles, except maybe varmint guns), it doesn't have the best glass, though it is good enough. What it does have going for it, it is tough, reliable, tracks well and stands up to the recoil of my 7mm Magnum with no problem. That same scope is sold as the bushnell elite 3200 today, costs about 280 bucks.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Some advice i can offer is this.

I am having GAP build me a M40A3 rifle, and at first was just gonna keep a basic scope on it figuring if it works then why not. But for the past year and some change ive been wanting a S&B scope. I was having a very hard time trying to justify the cost even though i can afford it. But after reading all the information i took the plunge and have a S&B on order as we speak. I got a really really killer deal on my purchase. I was gonna spend about 1000 dollars or so originally but i said to myself why not save a little more and get a top of the line scope? so i did that and im very very happy with my decision....no buyers remorse or anything like that. So whatever your budget is...perhaps save for a extra couple of months and go for the high end. There worth it in every aspect.

Heath
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I bought a mark 4. Spent a gazillion dollars I thought. Sold it. Bould a Night Force, then two, then three. Just the other day bought a ANOTHER US OPTICS....... with a Horus. Be carefull how hard you cry. You will end up with a bucket full of tears and no money in your other bucket. However, if you ever want your money back you can always get it if it is good stuff.
T
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I vote Night force, but what do I know.
I only have 10 of them.
I think all the "cool kids" have FFP. I've never tried one. I think it would take too much thinkin' for my feeble brain to handle that growing reticle thing.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

M24SWS makes a valid point about spending all of that money on a scope. Yes, counting out the hundreds at the counter does hurt, but I've never regretted getting good equipment. Never any buyer's remorse. What I have regretted was getting something and not getting better.

Not trying to knock anyone's equipment here, but I've been through the Sightrons, Trijicons, Nikons, Leupold's and others, but never had that feeling of satisfaction until I moved up to Nightforce.

Right now, I'm at a point where there's nothing else that I want or need. All of my firearms needs are satisfied, except one thing. That last scope that I need for that rifle I picked up this past weekend. I'm gonna take a ride to SportOptics this weekend, if I have the time. My intention is to look into another 5.5-22X, but I'm gonna take a good look at some of the other stuff that they have. I may take the plunge into something "better."

One of the nicest things about buying killer glass is that selling it is no problem.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I agree with Triman could not have said it better! Get the best you can afford and don't be peer pressured into spending more than you can afford
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Nightforce doesn’t really make many FFP scopes, and not having FFP in a tactical scope which is being used to range with is a real draw back. A lot of what you are paying for is name. The knobs are nice, but not as nice as a Premier or March. The Nightforce glass is ok but there are other scope which cost less and have glass with is comparable. I myself do not like the dull color rendition from Nightforce glass; I prefer more contrast and vivid color. It comes down to whether the knobs/design is worth an extra $600-$800 over a Sightron which has similar quality glass. The other thing is Nightforce scopes have mostly 4x zoom, while a lot of the other newer scopes have 5x or more.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Much less expensive scopes have been making much longer shots, for many years. Buy what your comfortable with, and then spend 5 times as much on ammo to go out and practice with.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Much less expensive scopes have been making much longer shots, for many years. Buy what your comfortable with, and then spend 5 times as much on ammo to go out and practice with. </div></div>

Well said.

Just for reference, I've got 3 NF scopes, 2 $300 Leupold, 2 $400 Weavers, and previously owned several IORs, not to mention a Swarovski & Kowa spotters. Sure NF is a bullet-proof scope and if that bullet "just has to get there" NF would be my first choice. That said, my $350 T-24 Weaver has been flawless for the last 2 years and 6,000 rounds. Those turrets have gotten a serious workout and still track. So, if the turrets and reticle are reliable and the bullet goes where the crosshairs are placed, that's 99.9% of what I am looking for and I'd prefer to only spend $350 getting it.

Now can you get to the point where you are getting a POS because you are too cheap? Of course, and I think $350 to $400 is probably right where that threshold lies today.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

Go to the jays in Clare. They have NF, S&B and such, see which one you prefer.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Nightforce doesn’t really make many FFP scopes</span>, and not having FFP in a tactical scope which is being used to range with is a real draw back. <span style="font-weight: bold">A lot of what you are paying for is name.</span> The knobs are nice, but not as nice as a Premier or March. <span style="font-weight: bold">The Nightforce glass is ok but there are other scope which cost less and have glass with is comparable.</span> I myself do not like the dull color rendition from Nightforce glass; I prefer more contrast and vivid color. <span style="font-weight: bold">It comes down to whether the knobs/design is worth an extra $600-$800 over a Sightron which has similar quality glass. The other thing is Nightforce scopes have mostly 4x zoom, while a lot of the other newer scopes have 5x or more.</span></div></div>

Are you serious?
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So, I guess NightForce is guilty of false advertising with their NXS 3.5-15x F1 model, huh? That is their first focal plane model.

You get what you pay for. If you think your $500 Leupold scope is going to compare to Billy Bob's $1800 NightForce because all <span style="font-style: italic">you are paying for is name</span>, you are mistaken.

Although I've not handled every scope available, I have yet to find/handle <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> scope with comparable glass that is priced less than what I paid for my NF and that includes; Sightron, Bushnell, SWFA, Hawke, Nikon, Tasco, Vortex, and Leupold. I'm not saying those I have mentioned are crap, just that they don't compare to the NightForce.

Furthermore, NF has several scopes at 3.5-15x all the way up to 12-42x so where are you getting the idea that NightForce scopes have mostly 4x zoom?
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I'm thinking you've been looking at an outdated catalog or something because in my opinion, you're <span style="font-style: italic">way off the mark</span> with your post.
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To the OP...you can't go wrong with a NightForce. Others have said spend as much as you can afford and while that may be good for some, I disagree. When I purchased my NF from a fellow 'Hide member, I had the cash to purchase a new Schmidt & Bender. Yes, they are fine pieces of hardware but I couldn't justify that kind of money ($3000+) being spent on a scope when the NightForce ($1675 w/zero stop), in my opinion, was equally as nice and capable of doing the same thing as the S&B.

+1 for NightForce.


 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Nightforce doesn’t really make many FFP scopes, and not having FFP in a tactical scope which is being used to range with is a real draw back.</span></div></div>

Are you serious?
confused.gif


So, I guess NightForce is guilty of false advertising with their NXS 3.5-15x F1 model, huh? That is their first focal plane model.

You get what you pay for. If you think your $500 Leupold scope is going to compare to Billy Bob's $1800 NightForce because all <span style="font-style: italic">you are paying for is name</span>, you are mistaken.

Although I've not handled every scope available, I have yet to find/handle <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> scope with comparable glass that is priced less than what I paid for my NF and that includes; Sightron, Bushnell, SWFA, Hawke, Nikon, Tasco, Vortex, and Leupold. I'm not saying those I have mentioned are crap, just that they don't compare to the NightForce.

Furthermore, NF has several scopes at 3.5-15x all the way up to 12-42x so where are you getting the idea that NightForce scopes have mostly 4x zoom?
confused.gif


I'm thinking you've been looking at an outdated catalog or something because in my opinion, you're <span style="font-style: italic">way off the mark</span> with your post.
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________________________________________________


To the OP...you can't go wrong with a NightForce. Others have said spend as much as you can afford and while that may be good for some, I disagree. When I purchased my NF from a fellow 'Hide member, I had the cash to purchase a new Schmidt & Bender. Yes, they are fine pieces of hardware but I couldn't justify that kind of money ($3000+) being spent on a scope when the NightForce ($1675 w/zero stop), in my opinion, was equally as nice and capable of doing the same thing as the S&B.

+1 for NightForce.


</div></div>

+1...and.....

What are you smoking? NightForce SFP scopes with the correct reticle are doing a find job at ranging
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.....Mirage or no mirage...
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

They do have mostly around 4x zoom. I don't have any problem with that, but something 5 or 6x zoom would definitely suit my meeds better.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: paraiso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They do have mostly around 4x zoom. I don't have any problem with that, but something 5 or 6x zoom would definitely suit my meeds better. </div></div>

Maybe you should take a closer look because they <span style="font-style: italic">most certainly do not</span> have mostly around 4x zoom.

http://nightforceoptics.com/nightforcescopes/index.html
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

1x4 = 4 x
2.5x10 = 4x
3.5x15 = 4.2x
5.5x22 = 4x
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

I have handled and fondled many optics in my short time of shooting past 100 and having more scope than the ol' 3-9.

Sightron, Leupold, Trijicon, Nightforce, Weaver, Nikon, and a few others that I won't mention. Only touched them to move them out of my way.

I think I am vote number eleventy-billion for Nightforce. I own exactly 1. To date it is the best glass, best tracking, best produced scope I have had my hands on.

The new SIII scopes, however, would be next on my list if I was told, "No more Nightforce." My dad has the 3.5-10x56 and it is super glass. The best I have seen on ANY sub $1000 scope. Turrets have tight and audible clicks. He paid something like $600 through wholesalehunter.com (via ebay.com).

I bought my scope through the For Sale section here. Good deals are around. I know that if $$$ gets tight, I can sell my NF for what I have into it. Money is going to have to get REALLY tight for that to happen.

Have a look at many optics, feel them, shoot rifles attached to them, then buy one and go shoot.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You dont have to have FFP.

Im so tired of seeing people clain that if its not FFP, then its not quality.

Id take a NF any day over some off these new ffp crazed scopes.

Thats why I decided I would rather have 2 NF, over 1 S&B.

Personally, I also dont agree with " Buy whatever quality you can afford"

Buy a practical scope for what you are going to use it for. Dont just spend extra needlessly. Afterall, what good is any scope without a quality base and rings, and match ammo.

Sure a S&B and Hendsoldt makes a sweet scope, but for what I shoot in, then NF does just as well and I have enough left over to buy ammo and more rifles.


</div></div>

Yeah, I feel the same way, most shooters in fact really don't need FFP. It just happens to be the Tacti-Cool thing right now.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIE107</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooters in fact really don't need FFP. It just happens to be the Tacti-Cool thing right now. </div></div>

I don't exactly disagree, as long as you know you'll only ever hold-off at the particular magnification your SFP reticle is calibrated at.

As long as I only use my Nightforce 3.5-15x @ 15x, everything works fine.

With a 5-25x FFP, I don't have to think about what magnification setting I'm on.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Michael Aos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SIE107</div><div class="ubbcode-body">most shooters in fact really don't need FFP. It just happens to be the Tacti-Cool thing right now. </div></div>

I don't exactly disagree, as long as you know you'll only ever hold-off at the particular magnification your SFP reticle is calibrated at.

As long as I only use my Nightforce 3.5-15x @ 15x, everything works fine.

With a 5-25x FFP, I don't have to think about what magnification setting I'm on. </div></div>

I don't have to think about it either. Since all my shooting is done at KD ranges, mainly 1K. But for the commong plinker, target shooting person, SFP is good enough, but if your ranging and shooting Unknown distances, I can see the need, esp if shooting tactical matches.. but I would gather to bet that most whom own a FFP scope don't shoot matches either. They just plink and stuff.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

SIE107,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would gather to bet that most whom own a FFP scope don't shoot matches either. They just plink and stuff.</div></div>

I will go a little further than you with my statement. I bet most don't know how to use the first focal plane crosshair any more than most do with the second focal plane. They just use the crosshair to aim with. That's why <span style="font-weight: bold">WE</span> (SFP guys) have a laser range finder.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old man now</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SIE107,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would gather to bet that most whom own a FFP scope don't shoot matches either. They just plink and stuff.</div></div>

I will go a little further than you with my statement. I bet most don't know how to use the first focal plane crosshair any more than most do with the second focal plane. They just use the crosshair to aim with. That's why <span style="font-weight: bold">WE</span> (SFP guys) have a laser range finder.</div></div>


I guess if you still don't see the use for FFP scopes, then there is no reason to drag the info once again. Buy whatever you want and be happy, but I would refrain from throwing out blanket statements when there are a lot of skilled shooters on this forum. This isn't ARFCOM.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

You definitely don't need an FFP scope to win.

At the local level, I would say more often than not, the match winner is using a SFP scope.

Then the next several finishes are FFP.

I think it's more a testament to the shooter than the scope. And to some extent overcoming a handicap.

It's easier to rapidly engage MOA-sized targets from 200yds - 900yds at a predetermined distance with a FFP than SFP variable magnification scope.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old man now</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SIE107,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would gather to bet that most whom own a FFP scope don't shoot matches either. They just plink and stuff.</div></div>

I will go a little further than you with my statement. I bet most don't know how to use the first focal plane crosshair any more than most do with the second focal plane. They just use the crosshair to aim with. That's why <span style="font-weight: bold">WE</span> (SFP guys) have a laser range finder. </div></div>

I beg to differ sir, however you show your ignorance proudly. YOU being of the SFP breed have one less tool in your box available. Based on your post it would be reasonable to A$$Ume that you have never calibrated your reticle nor do you know what to do with it for ranging should you run out of batteries.

One could wonder how well you would do with a map and compass when your GPS quits.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

You boys are consistant with optics forums. You condencendingly call names instead of defending your position in an adult manner. In my post I was not limiting my use of the word "most" to the posters on this forum who may or may not know how to use the FFP crosshair, but rather the the shooting community at large. I would venture to say that the vast majority of scope users have no clue what a FFP scope is. I think for some it is a snobish thing. For others it is a functual part of his shooting routine.

If a shooter doesn't plan on rangeing moa size targets as one poster said, then why use a crosshair that gets larger as the magnification is increased? It might come as a shock, but deer, coyotes and elk do not come as moa size targets.

Your arrogant ignorant attack that I never "calibrated" my reticle is foolish. Only recently did I learn about FFP. Back in the 1970's I was using a 4-12X scope and had measured the distance between the thick and thin portions of the crosshairs so that I could range elk out to the distance I felt the Noslers would open up.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Although I've not handled every scope available, I have yet to find/handle <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> scope with comparable glass that is priced less than what I paid for my NF and that includes; Sightron, Bushnell, SWFA, Hawke, Nikon, Tasco, Vortex, and Leupold. </div></div>
My Leupold Mark 4 had better contrast and color than my Nightforce does. My Zeiss also has better glass. I don't feel bad about switching because the NF is considerably more stout as either of the others. I have no problem shooting it at 1400 yards. My take is to get something in the Vortex PST-Leupold MK4- Zeiss Conquest-Nightforce range. You'll never feel that you didn't get nice enough glass for shooting under 1000 yards.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

The new Sightorn SIII LRMOA 6-24x sounds like its gonna be a winner. I personally prefer the SFP but I know I am in the minority. Actually have two IOR 3-18s and will be keeping the SFP and selling the FFP to fund some other stuff. Big fan of the IOR glass.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old man now</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If a shooter doesn't plan on rangeing moa size targets as one poster said, then why use a crosshair that gets larger as the magnification is increased? It might come as a shock, but deer, coyotes and elk do not come as moa size targets.
</div></div>

Holdovers.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: beenjammin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Im so tired of seeing people clain that if its not FFP, then its not quality.
</div></div>

Anyone who says that is an idiot.

As an aside, FFP scopes are nothing new. They've been around a long time.
 
Re: How hard do I have to cry?

"Back in the old days" I compiled a book with all my long range scope subtension data. I used it mainly for prairie dog shooting, as the laser range finder doesn't always work well with such small targets.
I have also "calibrated" my NF scopes and know that they are correct using the power stated by NF for ranging.
I own no FFP scopes at this time but am not against the idea. Possibly a Hensoldt in my future.
I don't think there is a wrong way to go in respect to the FFP vs. SFP debacle. There is no need to infer that SFP shooters are less equipped and second class.
If a man knows his equipment he can win the fight and that is what matters.
 
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