How long is powder good for?

[7shotguns]

My buddy bought a house and in the workshop we found some old IMR powder. I can't find a date on it but it's in a tin can. I took some pictures, hopefully someone can tell me if it's still bueno to use because there are about twenty ponds worth of powder and all of it for loads I use. Thanks

 

[29aholic]

Double based powder has almost an unlimited shelf life dependent on how it is/was stored.

I have used a LOT of out of date powder (yours probably dates to the 70's/80's).

Just work your load up normally. I would not start with your pet load, just in case.

 

[40xs]

Was it kept in a controlled environment? Shelf life of most powders can be many years if not subjected to humidity and high heat. Smell it. If it has an acidic odor don't use it. Otherwise try it in reduced loads to test the consistency.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Shake it then remove the lid. If you a red dust coming out use to fertilize your lawn.

 

[MJY65]

I've never shot any quite that old, but have used 20 year old powder with no issues. As to the ultimate shelf life, who knows. I guess we'll find out when the hoarders that bought 10 lifetimes worth of supply pass it on to their great grandchildren.

 

[FLIGHT762]

Shake it then remove the lid. If you a red dust coming out use to fertilize your lawn.

This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Open the cans and pour some out. If there's any red dust, toss it out. I've had a couple of the old cans (30+years old) go bad. I'm still using some Hodgdon Paper can powder from the late 60's that is in perfect shape. Just depends on how the powder was stored over the years. Powder can last many decades if stored well.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

There's lots of factors affecting how long a powder will last, beginning with the particular powder in question. In some cases, apparently it's next to forever.

In Lee Precision's "ABCs of Reloading" (mine was published in 2004), on p. 51 it reads,

... a sample of Laflin&Rand (later Hercules, now Alliant) Unique powder was placed in storage underwater in 1899 to test its viability. It was last tested in 1996. It will be tested again in this century when it is expected to continue performing as well as when it was made....

Norma, OTOH, is a bit more pessimistic about powder life:

...The chemicals in the powder slowly start to decompose after about 20 years. If you store the powder at a high or fluctuating temperature, this process starts earlier....

So how do you tell whether the powder you've got is some of the immortal stuff, or whether it'll only last for 20 years? Accurate Powders offers advice on that account:

What are the signs of “unstable” powder or powders that are decomposing?

1. Yellow-/brown-/orange-ish fumes and/or powdery deposits, on the powder or on the inside of the container/s.

2. A Strong Acidic smell that takes breath away (not to be confused with the normal solvent smell.)

3. Any rusting of metal objects, in contact or close to the powder.

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I bought a bunch of metal can IMR powder that had been stored in a semi trailer parked on somebody's back 40 for ~20 years; getting baked in the summer and frozen in the winter.

It's good to go.

 

[tho98027]

Can you fellas clarify Something for me. im a complete newb with this. I've heard that in double base powders the nitro can settle to the bottom of the container over several years if not used and become unstable, causing the need to turn the container over periodically to keep the nitro from settling. Is this true? Can double based powders become dangerous over many years if not used or turned over?

 

[Deerhunter 28]

How long is powder good for?

Im using up some now that is 27 years old.
Works fine

 

[81Z4ME]

When I moved to the Richmond, VA area in 1985 I put my powder up in the attic (primers, too). About 4 years ago I got the primers and powder down and start using them. No issues. It gets pretty hot in my attic in the summer and pretty cold in the winter.

 

[mark5pt56]

Dang, and I wonder about loading in the garage with my powder exposed for an hour!

 

[Pinecone]

BTW, IMR powders are single base.

I have never heard of the nitroglycerin settling out. Dynamite (nitroglycerin soaked into diatomaceous earth) can start sweating out the liquid nitroglycerin if improperly stored (high heat).

And BTW, just saying nitro is not very informative. Single based powders are made from NITROcellulose. Double based adds NITROglycerin to the NITROcellulose. And triple based (Vihta Vouri) adds NITROguanadine to the other two NITROs.

 

[tho98027]

Yes, youre right. I Should have clarified the nitroglycerin.

 

[MarshallDodge]

A friend's dad passed away and he gave me a couple cans of Hodgdon 4895 that was packaged in the old cardboard bottles. I loaded up 1000 rounds of practice 223 and took them to a carbine class. It shot great, my 14 year old son had the tightest group of the class during sight-in.

 

[samnev]

I pulled powder and projos from 1948 dated 8mm Lebel ammo that had dead primers. Reloaded many hundred of rounds with it without a single problem.

 

[MJY65]

Can you fellas clarify Something for me. im a complete newb with this. I've heard that in double base powders the nitro can settle to the bottom of the container over several years if not used and become unstable, causing the need to turn the container over periodically to keep the nitro from settling. Is this true? Can double based powders become dangerous over many years if not used or turned over?

If powder has chemically broken down, I don't think it could be reconstituted by shaking it up.

 

[pawprint2]

There is still a lot of ammo floating around pushing at least 50 years old, most shoots just fine. There is also a lot of ammo floating around well over 50 years old, and it too shoots just fine.

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

... I've heard that in double base powders the nitro can settle to the bottom of the container over several years if not used and become unstable, causing the need to turn the container over periodically to keep the nitro from settling....

Burt Lancaster's speech on weeping dynamite in the movie "The Professionals" has produced more experts in organic chemistry than all the universities in the US combined, LoL.

Everthing that contains nitroglycerin does not weep it. A heart patient's nitro pills do not. Nor does smokeless gunpowder.

But smokeless powder does give off nitrate of ester gasses, which can create a fire hazard. But only if you're storing it in army depot-sized containers, not in home reloader kinds of quantities, and for an extended period of time.

Among other things, the stabilizers in gunpowder are meant to absorb the escaping nitrate esters, but they only can hold so much. Then it starts accumulating in the powder magazine. That's where Norma comes by the 20-year figure I mentioned above, because that's how long they reckon it'll take the stabilizers to reach saturation. After which you've got wild nitrate esters running loose. And nitrates can combine with humidity in the air to produce nitric acid. And then you've got spontaneous combustion.

The Navy tests powder periodically and discards it when the stabilizers are (IIRC) 80% saturated. The Army just throws it out after a certain time, 20 years for double base and 45 years for single base. Not because of lost potency but because of the potential fire hazard. But they both still have occasional depot fires. And worse. Which shows to go you, you can't be too careful.

But it has nothing to do with weeping nitro, it's because smokeless powder is such a hyper-reactive compound that the nitrates naturally want to combine with the oxygen in the air around it. Which forms nitrate esters (autocatalysed decomposition). Which can combine with water vapor to produce nitric acid. And it affects both single and double-base but tends to become problematic sooner with double-base stuff.

 

[tho98027]

Thanks for the thorough reply Fred C Dobbs. Is there a way to check for the saturation of nitrate esters in powders. Any visual signs Or does it have to be lab tested? Saw one of the above posts mention if there is rust/red in the powder to discard it, but does nitrate esters show any visual signs?

 

[Bill Larson]

try it............

 

[EasyGravy]

I found some old ass shotgun kegs cleaning out my grandfathers place after he passed. They had to been 15 if not 20 years old. It worked but smelled like farts

 

[Pinecone]

I stopped reloading in 1996, restarted in 2013. So 17 years. I left WW231 in my Dillon powder measure for that period. Looked and smelled fine. Loaded it and it works fine.

I have a can of Bullseye from 1977. I have to load some and try it.

 

[Deadshot2]

NITROguanadine

That sounds like something that might be derived from Bat Crap.

 

[samnev]

i obtained mant thousands of round of 1938 thru 1940 brass cased German 8mm ammunition still in their original 300 round sleeves when it first came in 10 or so years ago. I would say 98%+ fired without any problems. Still have a lot of it left and it still soldiers on. Really good ammo.

 

[Clark]

I got 8 pound jugs of 1960s 4895 pull down.
It works perfectly, but it is bulk powder, not canister powder.
The grains measure out as 4895, but the burn rate matches H322.
50 years old and working fine.
Keep the lid screwed on tight.

 

[BuzzBoss915]

I stopped reloading in 1996, restarted in 2013. So 17 years. I left WW231 in my Dillon powder measure for that period. Looked and smelled fine. Loaded it and it works fine.

I have a can of Bullseye from 1977. I have to load some and try it.

I just gotta say it: Is your parole officer okay with it? Joke! Joke, okay!

Hard to figure out how or why a man would have a seventeen year gap in a hobby interest? And yes, I agree, it's none of my business. (no offense) BB

 

[Victor N TN]

I still have quiet a few of the metal DuPont IMR cans. A couple dating back to the late 1960s. But I bought some Hodgden paper box H110 powder that went bad a couple of years after I got it. It went on the yard.

 

[EddieNFL]

I still have quiet a few of the metal DuPont IMR cans.

I opened a can of 3031 today. At least 20 years old.

I opened my last keg of WW452AA last year (10 pound cardboard). About 30 years old.

 

[Pinecone]

That sounds like something that might be derived from Bat Crap.

It is actually found in urine.

Guanidine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pinecone]

I just gotta say it: Is your parole officer okay with it? Joke! Joke, okay!

Hard to figure out how or why a man would have a seventeen year gap in a hobby interest? And yes, I agree, it's none of my business. (no offense) BB

Other hobbies.

Flying, racing cars.

 

[Jungle George]

As long as it's kept out of direct sun light and cool and dry, it will last pretty much for ever. I have inherited some old powders that still work fine. I'm loading a keg of 700x for 12ga trap shooting from the 70's right now and it's works just great.

Cheers,

George

 

[leadbullet]

if it smells like vinegar toss on your lawn, it is still good fertilizer. Good or bad that powder was free so why taking a chance on damaging a known good gun with it. The tin cans make nice decoration in manly loading room too.
cheers.

 

[Bender]

I have a can from the 60's of IMR 4198. Shoots great.

 

[ksthomas]

The industry answer, from CIP, anyway, is ten years. That said, storage conditions, along with a host of other factors are what truly determine powder longevity. Like most every one else on this board, I've used powders and ammunition that was loaded before I was born, and generally had no problems at all with it. By the same token, I've seen properly stored powder that went bad after sitting on the shelves for 15-20 years. Ironically, these powders were in the same magazine that held other powders which were just as old, or even older, that remained in perfect shape. Most powders are treated with a series of acids and other washes during their production, and just how thoroughly these are removed from the powder is (in my estimation, anyway) a large factor in determining just how long a powder may last. Storage conditions are first and foremost, and excessive temperature changes, especially those involving high temps, are very detrimental to any powder. Store them properly, sealed tightly, and in an area where they're kept cool and not subjected to these types of temperature swings, and you're most likely going to see the powder last a good, long time.

As others have mentioned, when powder goes bad, there's not really too much question about it; the reddish "dust", accompanied by a very sharp, acrid odor, is a clear-cut sign that it needs to go. I've also seen many of the older style metal containers that were corroded badly on the inside (acids, remember?) once the stuff starts breaking down. You may also see what appears to by clumps, resembling "dust bunnies" that show up in the container, which will normally go right along with the other signs. If you've got that familiar, pleasant (to handloaders, anyway) ether smell, and the powder still appears to be in good shape, use it in good conscience regardless of how long it's been around.

 

[strom19]

I have used Blue dot for years in loading 44 magnum loads. I have one lb which I purchased in 1984 and another in 2010 and they both burn evenly maintaining the same velocity.
Storing of powders is most important. Kept in doors at room temp in their original containers should preserve them for many years.

 

[Deadshot2]

My rule is that if the powder in the can smells worse than the cat box it goes on the lawn. The rest I shoot.

 

[the once-ler]

put the powder in your climate controlled wine room, at about 45 degrees and it will last longer than you will...

 

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

More info from Lee Precision's "ABCs of Reloading":

As smokeless powders deteriorate, they generate small amounts of nitric acid. Stabilizers are added to these powders to absorb acid byproduct. Most powders have fifty or more years of life before the stabilizers are used up and nitric acid begins to leach out of the nitrocellulose, leaving plain cellulose and reducing the efficiency of the powder.

Occasionally powder will deteriorate owing to acid residue that was not properly washed out in the manufacturing process. Such powder will take on an unpleasant acidic smell and a brown dust looking very like rust will appear in the powder. Powder in this condition will not shoot well, giving poor ignition and low power. It should be disposed of. Metal cans containing powder will sometimes rust on the interior, producing a very similar-appearing dust,but without the characteristic odor. This does not harm the powder and can be removed by dumping the powder on a flat piece of bed sheet, spreading it evenly, and gently blowing off the dust. The powder should then be placed in another container. An empty plastic powder bottle is good so long as it is clearly marked as to what it is. It is a good idea to mark containers of powder with the date of purchase and then use the oldest first. Opened containers of powder should be checked at least every year for signs of rust or deterioration if they are not being used. Sealed containers should be left sealed until they are to be used. Alcohols and occasionally camphor are added to stabilize burning characteristics. Powder containers should be kept tightly closed to keep these volatile additives from evaporating into the air.

Smokeless powder is quite safe to handle because it is not sensitive to shock. The main caution that must be taken is to keep it from open flame or heat. It will ignite above 400 degrees F. Shelf storage is suitable, preferably on a second floor where temperatures remain most stable. Powder should never be stored in heavy closed metal containers that could act as bombs in case of a fire. Never have more than one container of powder open at a time.

 

[Coloradocop]

I found this thread while looking into this subject a bit more this afternoon (after trying to determine how much powder supply I want to keep on hand here at the house). Anyway, my question mostly concerns how long the powder is viable for precision shooting requirements… Can you expect that 20 year old powder is still going to provide the consistency that we expect out of our rifles?

I certainly know that powder is viable for a VERY long time. I have some 8mm Mauser ammunition I'm still shooting that was loaded in 1935 (that's not a typo). Every round has gone "bang" as expected. But, that Mauser isn't used to engage small targets that are half a mile away from me (which is a task that I require of some of my other rifles).

My powder storage is in a residential basement in Colorado. It's not too damp down there, thanks to our relatively dry climate, and typically doesn't exceed 72 degrees.