I have a 5 gal jug of brake kleen that I have been using for about 4-5 weapons but none of them have been AK's. So what do you guys do and how much can you re-use it before your parts become contaminated in their own degreaser?
Gunsmithing How many times can I use the same degreaser? ~ Cerakote ~
- Thread starter razoredgeknives
- Start date
I use KG3 degreaser. Id be worried about cross contamination reusing the same cleaner. KG3 cost $8 a can and it will be 2-3 long guns no problem. It dries fast and leaves no residue. I used to paint cars for a living Limco 139 and Prep Sol are sold by the gallon and both excellent to removes oil and fingerprints from the surface.
I like the TCE spray from Brownells. No need to worry about cross contamination
Never. I use Acetone and it's $75 for 5 gallons. I pre clean everything in good harsh solvent and blow it dry. Then the parts go to the stainless tank for Acetone soak. If that Acetone starts looking cloudy it gets dumped. I have a dedicated stainless degrease tank and it is wiped clean after every batch. I use it for the day and at the end of the day it never goes back into my virgin stock. It goes into another can marked "Used Acetone" to be used for cleaning other things.
How do you soak your parts for the required 10-15 minutes with a spray product?
How do you soak your parts for the required 10-15 minutes with a spray product?
While your setup is ideal I don't think it is realistic for the hobbyist. I went to auto zone and got a few containers for holding used motor oil and a bunch of acetone. I soak the parts in the acetone before and after I gas them out. I then drain the acetone through a strainer into an in line fuel filter back into the holding containers. Parts than get sprayed with non chlorinated brake parts cleaner than 99% iso alcohol just to dry them quicker. If I am in a hurry they go back into the oven for 15 minutes to drive off the last of the solvents. I also notice I get a more matte look when I spray the parts warm and use a lot of light passes. I can general do 3-4 applications on two gallons of aceton. I have switched to using frog lube in my semi autos so I have taken to cleaning my guns in a large drip pan also from auto zone with simple green and warm water. I might try that as a cheaper pre degrease or a product called purple power.
Methanol...aka alky/fuel. cheap. Effective. Won't make your liver scream or your kids come out crooked.
the problem with kg3 is that it is in a spray can and you can't buy it by the gallon... following NIC's instructions there would be no way I would use this, they require a soak, not just a spray. the prep sol looks like a more harsh cleaner where the limco is just prior to painting, correct? unfortunately it's more than acetone (which I can get locally) and which is what NIC recommends. thanks for the insight!
Thanks for your invaluable information SS a few questions...
1. What do you use for your harsh cleaner, acetone there as well?
2. What do you use for your tanks? I have had a hard time finding something to use to put acetone in since it can't be plastic... Right now I have a parts cleaning bin that i'm using but it's not quite long enough for say a rem 1100 receiver.
3. so the stuff you use virgin daily is the first harsh cleaner, but you re-use your acetone until it starts looking cloudy?
thanks guys...!
For a cheap tank look for a Stainless Steel bluing tank or you could try this one. BLACK IRON BLUING TANK | Brownells
In the video that nic did on YouTube their degreaser looked very colored. So is the main thing is the cleaner does not work as well or just takes longer?
I use racing methanol and acetone. Look locally for the methanol, it's very inexpensive compared to acetone but acetone is a better cleaner.
These are the steps that work well for me. Cleaning the part thoroughly will help keep your media contaminant free and should be your primary goal
wipe down part with methanol to get the easy stuff off
soak in methanol and brush the knooks and crannies. Use just enough to get the job done then throw it away
wipe down with acetone
gas out in 300 degrees for 30-40 min.
wipe down with acetone
blast with 120 AO to an even sandpaper finish make sure there are no shiny spots
blow media off part with high pressure air
coat with gun at 15-18psi. if you set air pressure at gun too low, you will get spotty coverage and will need to make too many passes to get complete coverage and end up too thick. air pressure too high and you'll get over spray. You want even coverage and look wet but thin. don't over look the importance to set the air and paint flow correctly. practice on an old barrel
bake at 250 degrees for 2 hours
These are the steps that work well for me. Cleaning the part thoroughly will help keep your media contaminant free and should be your primary goal
wipe down part with methanol to get the easy stuff off
soak in methanol and brush the knooks and crannies. Use just enough to get the job done then throw it away
wipe down with acetone
gas out in 300 degrees for 30-40 min.
wipe down with acetone
blast with 120 AO to an even sandpaper finish make sure there are no shiny spots
blow media off part with high pressure air
coat with gun at 15-18psi. if you set air pressure at gun too low, you will get spotty coverage and will need to make too many passes to get complete coverage and end up too thick. air pressure too high and you'll get over spray. You want even coverage and look wet but thin. don't over look the importance to set the air and paint flow correctly. practice on an old barrel
bake at 250 degrees for 2 hours
thanks man that's great! I just found a "parkerizing tank" that already has a valve built in but it's much more expensive...
what do you mean that acetone is "cleaner"... LongRifles Inc. here on snipershide recommended "pitching the acetone" completely. Does the methanol racing fuel leave any kind of residue behind? thanks for the input and advise!
I had mine built by local sheet metal shop. The tank I use isreal close to this one on Ebay. Premium Quality Parkerizing Tank Park Tank Metal Refinishing | eBay
The solvent I use is by Chevron. I don't have the number off hand but it's $42 for 5 gallons and it last a year or more just doing guns. It's not water based. If you dip your hand in it your skin comes out white.
Solvent tank first.
Then into the clean new (virgin) Acetone Solvent.
Gas out
repeat until gas out shows no more oils.
Blast with AO. This blast cabinet only sees degreased gun parts.
Blow off dust with filtered air.
Coat
Cook
I never put anything wet on after the blast cabinet.
I use that solvent for the day changing if it starts looking cloudy.
The solvent I use is by Chevron. I don't have the number off hand but it's $42 for 5 gallons and it last a year or more just doing guns. It's not water based. If you dip your hand in it your skin comes out white.
Solvent tank first.
Then into the clean new (virgin) Acetone Solvent.
Gas out
repeat until gas out shows no more oils.
Blast with AO. This blast cabinet only sees degreased gun parts.
Blow off dust with filtered air.
Coat
Cook
I never put anything wet on after the blast cabinet.
I use that solvent for the day changing if it starts looking cloudy.
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cool thanks. I wonder if it's chevron 325... seems to be pretty popular for degreasing. regardless what I use, I really like the dual dunk method to ensure everything is gone!
I think soaking is overkill unless your running a professional level. Ive never had any issues with Kg3 like fisheyes, poor adhesion ect.
I pre-clean before blasting with an aerosol carb/choke cleaner. I blast with barrel out of action because it seems easier to me to get all the abrasive out of all the nooks and crannies that way. I plug/tape/mask off places I don't want blasted or coated. I reassemble after blasting then go to my acetone tank for the soak. I found that by pre-cleaning disassembled and final cleaning assembled I seldom get oily stuff trapped and almost never get any weeping during gas out. First time or two I did this with assembled barreled actions it seemed to take forever to get oil forced out. Just my 2 cents but it works for me.
Sorry to quote you again, but I though it was interesting the order you went in... I have caught myself doing similar to what you do with the order, but doesn't NIC recommend to degrease, blast, THEN gas out? But to me this doesn't make sense because then you can possibly contaminate your media...
also, you say that you don't ever put anything wet on it after blasting... I noticed that even after I blasted and then blowed dry air on it to get the blast media off of it that if I took a damp cloth w/ brake kleen on it then there would still be some residue/powder from blasting left... maybe I didn't have my air turned up enough or something. I ordered some lint free cloths to be able to wipe down after and not have any lint on it, but maybe I should scratch this idea...
"what do you mean that acetone is "cleaner"... LongRifles Inc. here on snipershide recommended "pitching the acetone" completely. Does the methanol racing fuel leave any kind of residue behind? thanks for the input and advise!"
Racing methanol is far cheaper than acetone so I do the majority of cleaning/degreasing with it. I feel that acetone is a better degreaser though so I make sure to wipe down the parts with acetone after the soaking in methanol. I'm very thorough with my cleaning process and make sure that there is nothing hiding that will end up in my blast cabinet. Everyone has their own process that works for them. you need to understand that you have to soak and gas out or you are not getting it all.
Racing methanol is far cheaper than acetone so I do the majority of cleaning/degreasing with it. I feel that acetone is a better degreaser though so I make sure to wipe down the parts with acetone after the soaking in methanol. I'm very thorough with my cleaning process and make sure that there is nothing hiding that will end up in my blast cabinet. Everyone has their own process that works for them. you need to understand that you have to soak and gas out or you are not getting it all.
Here's the deal with Methanol:
We use NO oil in any of our machining operations. We've gone completely synthetic. This makes for much easier/cleaner shop and parts.
Prior to soaking in the "meth" we wash our parts with HOT n SOAPY water. Dawn dish soap does a hell of a good job. -regardless of what others might say/think, it worky.
From there its off to the meth tank. Soak, air dry, then blast, then blow off (NO HANDS, GLOVES- NO Touchy, touchy!) the parts. Then soak again, then blow off again.
Off to the paint booth, off to the oven.
It's that easy.
See meth is good in this application because it's hygroscopic. It attracts water. So, if/when there's residual agua left on your parts, the meth pulls it out/away from the steel.
You may find that you need to spend more time in the sink than we do if your using a cutting oil.
There is zero residue with methanol. You cycle the tanks when it gets cloudy.
How well does it work? In the 3+ years we've been applying cerakote we've had less than 10 comebacks. Adhesion is just as good as soaking in acetone. The advantage however is greatly reduced cost and avoidance of the nasty stuff that acetone contains.
Plus for me is I always have 2x 55 gallon drums of the stuff so I've got plenty of fuel for my race planes!
Good luck.
C.
We use NO oil in any of our machining operations. We've gone completely synthetic. This makes for much easier/cleaner shop and parts.
Prior to soaking in the "meth" we wash our parts with HOT n SOAPY water. Dawn dish soap does a hell of a good job. -regardless of what others might say/think, it worky.
From there its off to the meth tank. Soak, air dry, then blast, then blow off (NO HANDS, GLOVES- NO Touchy, touchy!) the parts. Then soak again, then blow off again.
Off to the paint booth, off to the oven.
It's that easy.
See meth is good in this application because it's hygroscopic. It attracts water. So, if/when there's residual agua left on your parts, the meth pulls it out/away from the steel.
You may find that you need to spend more time in the sink than we do if your using a cutting oil.
There is zero residue with methanol. You cycle the tanks when it gets cloudy.
How well does it work? In the 3+ years we've been applying cerakote we've had less than 10 comebacks. Adhesion is just as good as soaking in acetone. The advantage however is greatly reduced cost and avoidance of the nasty stuff that acetone contains.
Plus for me is I always have 2x 55 gallon drums of the stuff so I've got plenty of fuel for my race planes!
Good luck.
C.
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Hehe, you guys have been great! Thanks for all the advise and pointers! I'm doing an ar this weekend... I'll try to post pics when done!
Last question (hopefully!) how do you dispose of the methanol when done with it? I assume with acetone you can just let it evaporate, but it would not appear this would work with the methanol.
Last question (hopefully!) how do you dispose of the methanol when done with it? I assume with acetone you can just let it evaporate, but it would not appear this would work with the methanol.
Razor, you are right. I got ahead of myself. I do it in their order to a tee. We blast after soaking then gas out. That's when we see oil seeping from barreled action joints and the soak and gas out gets repeated till gas out comes clean. I have had some guns that took a week of daily soakings and baking's before they dry up. I have even had to pull the barrel and physically clean up a really bad one. Never Seize will certainly push out under heat. Then we blast after gassing gas out one last time before blow down and coating. The main thing is it's always soaked before going into the cabinet.
That Chevron number sounds familiar. Our shop only uses the purist ingredients. No substitutions. No half eaten livers in our shop. We ensure they are eaten thoroughly and the drain on our street is the only one that never plugs up. No need for a weed eater either. Nothings grows near any of our cement.
That Chevron number sounds familiar. Our shop only uses the purist ingredients. No substitutions. No half eaten livers in our shop. We ensure they are eaten thoroughly and the drain on our street is the only one that never plugs up. No need for a weed eater either. Nothings grows near any of our cement.
Thanks SS!
just wanted to give some feedback!
So I followed a new plan this last batch. right now, until I can get a parkerizing tank, I am using an engine parts tank for degreasing purposes (has a drain built in to the bottom of it). So I bought a gallon of Simple Green and diluted it 3-1 with hot water, then I tossed all my parts in. I scrubbed them in the Simple Green with an AP brush and then moved them to another container with hot water in it to rinse them off. After this was all done I blew them dry with compressed air... only thing about it was that some of the parts were beginning to rust.
after this was all done I then gave them their soak in the methanol racing fuel (which left no residue btw) and then blew them off with compressed air again. After this I blasted them and put them in the oven for gas out...
gas out was a PAIN. The only issues I had was with the parts that could not be disassembled* (go figure) like the fixed gas block/front sight combo and the ejection port cover detent ball. These areas seeped oil from the joints so I spent a heck of a time trying to get all the oil out. I think I have it out now (finally!!!).
So in the midst of all this, with all this humid weather in SC my dessicant dryer got saturated and needs to be changed... I have known that I needed to have a back up but have not ordered one, so I had to put the entire project on hold while I wait for it to come in (2 day shipping - amazon) since I do not want to blow moist air! On a side note, I think I will be getting the HF refrigerated air dryer sometime soon to run in conjunction w/ my dessicant filter, this should help a ton!
One last thing... In the process of degreasing/gas out/degreasing I left the methanol racing fuel in my tank (which is steel) over night... I noticed that it oxidize the metal in the tank (unlike acetone). But as long as you remove it right after you are done there are no issues! and it's a lot cheaper... ~$6/gal (individual) vs. ~$15/gal for acetone.
* my gunsmith said that he could remove the gas block but that it would scratch the finish after the barrel was complete when putting it back on... so I opted to just leave it on. This posed a problem, however, in that I could not take the barrel, barrel nut, or gas tube off! I ended up being able to remove the gas tube backwards (through the bolt chamber area) gently...
So I followed a new plan this last batch. right now, until I can get a parkerizing tank, I am using an engine parts tank for degreasing purposes (has a drain built in to the bottom of it). So I bought a gallon of Simple Green and diluted it 3-1 with hot water, then I tossed all my parts in. I scrubbed them in the Simple Green with an AP brush and then moved them to another container with hot water in it to rinse them off. After this was all done I blew them dry with compressed air... only thing about it was that some of the parts were beginning to rust.
after this was all done I then gave them their soak in the methanol racing fuel (which left no residue btw) and then blew them off with compressed air again. After this I blasted them and put them in the oven for gas out...
gas out was a PAIN. The only issues I had was with the parts that could not be disassembled* (go figure) like the fixed gas block/front sight combo and the ejection port cover detent ball. These areas seeped oil from the joints so I spent a heck of a time trying to get all the oil out. I think I have it out now (finally!!!).
So in the midst of all this, with all this humid weather in SC my dessicant dryer got saturated and needs to be changed... I have known that I needed to have a back up but have not ordered one, so I had to put the entire project on hold while I wait for it to come in (2 day shipping - amazon) since I do not want to blow moist air! On a side note, I think I will be getting the HF refrigerated air dryer sometime soon to run in conjunction w/ my dessicant filter, this should help a ton!
One last thing... In the process of degreasing/gas out/degreasing I left the methanol racing fuel in my tank (which is steel) over night... I noticed that it oxidize the metal in the tank (unlike acetone). But as long as you remove it right after you are done there are no issues! and it's a lot cheaper... ~$6/gal (individual) vs. ~$15/gal for acetone.
* my gunsmith said that he could remove the gas block but that it would scratch the finish after the barrel was complete when putting it back on... so I opted to just leave it on. This posed a problem, however, in that I could not take the barrel, barrel nut, or gas tube off! I ended up being able to remove the gas tube backwards (through the bolt chamber area) gently...
You just discovered what a lot of racers running methanol already know. It's VERY hygroscopic. It attracts moisture and it promotes corrosion if left sitting around. You can certainly drain the stuff into a sealed container but it'll still happen. But you gotta be careful. Steel drums of methanol are pretty much a thing of the past because it'll eat the drum over time due to moisture. If storing in a steel container keep it off the concrete floor. Put it on a block/sheet of plywood. Not exactly sure why this works/is needed, but it seems to be the hot ticket for prolonged storage.
The worst case scenario is the stuff eats the drum and then spills all over your shop. -hope you don't have an ignition source or an expoy floor coating cause it'll burn your shop down/ruin the floor finish.
If you sweet talk and HVAC shop you can have a SS tank made up pretty easy. That's what I did. Cost me around $100 bucks.
C.
Thanks bro! I only got 5 gallons of the stuff and it came in 1 gal plastic milk jugs... I just drained it back into them when done... How u just have to figure out how to dispose of it!
For the fouled alcohol, got a match? The clean stuff you can sell to an alcohol racer on craigslist.
If it reacts anything like gasoline, can't that be dangerous? or is it not as flamable?
It's just as dangerous. More so prolly cause you can't see the flame in most instances.
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