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Rifle Scopes How much of an advantage is night vision?

#2
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

Well using night vision is kind of like the difference between seeing shit and then not seeing shit. I don't know what your buddies used but the PVS-7B does leave something to be desired but the PVS-14 is an excellent piece of gear. You can use the PVS-14 to walk and drive but it takes some getting used to since you have no depth perception with the nods.

What are you looking to do exactly with the nods?
 
#3
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

I love having night vision. I don't see how anybody could say night vision is a joke. One man with a rifle and GOOD night vision is deadlier then 10 men with just rifles at night. Being that your friends were in the military, I don't see how they didn't see that play out at all.

If you have a night vision scope/magnifier on your rifle, I don't see how that would have anything to do with driving. But you can walk around fine while looking through a night vision scope/magnifier.
 
#4
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

I have a PVS14 and I am glad I got it. Its something I have always wanted but they are expensive but amazing little boxes. I think the ACOG with tritium will wash out the 14's display. It does work well with the Eotech compatible optics / dot sights. If you plan on doing things in the dark good NV is a must have IMHO.

Cheap NV is a joke. Look through a good 3rd Gen unit and you will instantly form an opinion and likely want one.
 
#5
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?



Very interesting how your buddies tell you that the ability to see at night is a joke. Like trigger monkey said, it is like trying to shoot with your eyes closed or your eyes open. I have used 14's with an eotech, and it definitely can be done. The trick is getting into position with any kind of device that holds them to your head. (If this is your plan on using them) Range is extremely limited, but in the dark any range at all is better than nothing.
 
#6
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

Just a side note,

What MOS where your friends?

I bet cooks and re-fullers did not like them much.

talk to a man in the INF and his view, is well more based in realistic point of view.

John
 
#7
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

I have a PVS-14, have used it extensively behind an Aimpoint for all sorts of night time adventures. The one and only time I was not completely happy with it was a night where there was a near full moon and heavy fog. The ambient light was just enough, and the fog thick enough, that I could see nothing but a wall in front of the NOD, and could see better without it. Not to mention the lens kept condensating(I have since found a fix for that). That was the one time it was not a completely unfair advantage. Those times occur once or twice a year around here. I say anyone who thinks modern night vision(particularly the PVS-14) is not a huge advantage, is either blind, moronic, or has some nefarious reason for not wanting you to have one.
 
#8
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWRC556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddies all tell me night vision is a joke and that they didnt like it in the military. I wanted a PVS14 to run with an Acog but found out that I cant. I am limited to an eotech. How much of an advantage is it with an eotech and can I drive and safely navigate on foot at night?

http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_monoculars/ittpvs14_ne.html </div></div>

Would LOVE to hear their reason and rational.....??
 
#9
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWRC556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My buddies all tell me night vision is a joke and that they didnt like it in the military. I wanted a PVS14 to run with an Acog but found out that I cant. I am limited to an eotech. How much of an advantage is it with an eotech and can I drive and safely navigate on foot at night?

http://tnvc.com/items/night_vision_monoculars/ittpvs14_ne.html </div></div>

Would LOVE to hear their reason and rational.....??</div></div>

They were running mostly "dirty patrols", I'd tell you, but OPSEC and all.
wink.gif
 
#10
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

I never shot with NV, but I eyed NV through an ACOG. A dim red LED flashlight would illuminate a road like car headlights.

Seems like an advantage if I were shooting a gun at night.
 
#11
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

The older PVS-7 models were kind of crap but I agree with the above posted info that the PVS-14 is a good piece of kit. The thing you have to understand is that the PVS-14 is designed to primarily be mounted to your helmet and when used while sending rounds down range you use your PRQ or PAC4 etc (IR laser). The IR flood comes in handy for sure.

Driving with PVS-14 - yep - as long as you have IR headlights ...

Navigate on foot - sure - just remember depth perception is kinda tricky with night vision - fell in a BIG tank ditch once because I was watching 50 meters down range, your peripheral vision is notta with NVGs on. I was using 7Bs at when I fell in the ditch, its better with the PVS14 monocular.
 
#12
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

I got a PVS-14 earlier this year, unfortunately I still haven't shot with it for lack of a night time range. However I have spent a good amount of time playing around with it...

I think I might know what your buddy is going on about with NV being a joke. When I first got my PVS I was in Atlanta GA at the time, and their was so much ambient light that night vision offered nearly no advantage. Anyone with decent vision could see just fine at 2:00am (but I'm from the country so I hate cities and light pollution, it all seems bright to me). If he is operating in a city, I can see why he would say NV is a joke, as the ambient light is usually so overwhelming NV doesn't help much at all.

When I got back to Vermont with my PVS everything changed. I've been out kayaking on the lake with it on a clear starry night and I could distinguish shapes up to a mile away; additionally I could see perfect detail into the trees on the shoreline. Aside from everything being monochromatic you can see very well, it's really amazing technology. I was on the beach after some people had a campfire; with the naked eye it was just a black lump of coals, but with the NV it was glowing bright. Even the smallest light source is distracting with how sensitive the Gen3+ stuff is. I have also driven around the back roads with it. Personally I don't think the monocular/lack of depth of field makes a huge difference; if you're an experience driver you should be able to judge distance from the scale of objects as you drive (I was also driving roads I know well and I knew were my braking points were). That being said, I would recommend disconnecting your brake lights, because when I go to slow down it's almost blinding and lights up the whole interior...wait, don't take my advice I'm probably recommending something "illegal"... The same problem happen when I accelerate, even the little traction control light on my dash is blinding (I would turn off my T/C but it's a Mercedes and they make it impossible).

The short answer to your question is, yes. You can easily drive and safely navigate at night with good NV.

The problem with NV is that it's stupid expensive for anything useful, and like all electronics it's depreciation rate is just depressing. At the same time once you buy it, you'll never want to get rid of it except to upgrade. It's awesome, end of story.

My only disappointment has been finding a decent IR light-source. I bought a Surefire M962 with an IR filter and it's not good for much more than 15 yards with the 120 lumen bulb. On the other hand, the IR target designator on my Insight LAM rocks.
 
#13
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

They are USMC Infantry. They used PVS14 and the one said he broke his at SOI. The PVS 14 is on a different sight plain than the ACOG :-(. If it worked with an ACOG I would be sold. I think it would be good for night time navigation on foot and in the vehicle. Other wise you cant see anything. Its best to move at night and if I was going to encounter anyone with skill they will attack me at night.
 
#14
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

PVS-14 in conjunction with an M68(aimpoints) and/or a AN/PEQ-2 or the Atilla's are great combos!!
I like the PVS-14!! I have used them quite often and for long durations while conducting operations and training.
 
#15
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWRC556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are USMC Infantry. They used PVS14 and the one said he broke his at SOI. The PVS 14 is on a different sight plain than the ACOG :-(. If it worked with an ACOG I would be sold. I think it would be good for night time navigation on foot and in the vehicle. Other wise you cant see anything. Its best to move at night and if I was going to encounter anyone with skill they will attack me at night. </div></div>

We generaly don't get hit at night because we tend to "own the night".
The old PVS-14's had sucky plastic battery caps that were rather fragile. The new ones are much better!
 
#16
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sapper524</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The older PVS-7 models were kind of crap but I agree with the above posted info that the PVS-14 is a good piece of kit. The thing you have to understand is that the PVS-14 is designed to primarily be mounted to your helmet and when used while sending rounds down range you use your PRQ or PAC4 etc (IR laser). The IR flood comes in handy for sure.

Driving with PVS-14 - yep - as long as you have IR headlights ...

Navigate on foot - sure - just remember depth perception is kinda tricky with night vision - fell in a BIG tank ditch once because I was watching 50 meters down range, your peripheral vision is notta with NVGs on. I was using 7Bs at when I fell in the ditch, its better with the PVS14 monocular. </div></div>

Your depth perception is the problem with NVG's. You get used to them when you use them a bit!
 
#17
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: westford86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a PVS-14 earlier this year, unfortunately I still haven't shot with it for lack of a night time range. However I have spent a good amount of time playing around with it...

I think I might know what your buddy is going on about with NV being a joke. When I first got my PVS I was in Atlanta GA at the time, and their was so much ambient light that night vision offered nearly no advantage. Anyone with decent vision could see just fine at 2:00am (but I'm from the country so I hate cities and light pollution, it all seems bright to me). If he is operating in a city, I can see why he would say NV is a joke, as the ambient light is usually so overwhelming NV doesn't help much at all.

When I got back to Vermont with my PVS everything changed. I've been out kayaking on the lake with it on a clear starry night and I could distinguish shapes up to a mile away; additionally I could see perfect detail into the trees on the shoreline. Aside from everything being monochromatic you can see very well, it's really amazing technology. I was on the beach after some people had a campfire; with the naked eye it was just a black lump of coals, but with the NV it was glowing bright. Even the smallest light source is distracting with how sensitive the Gen3+ stuff is. I have also driven around the back roads with it. Personally I don't think the monocular/lack of depth of field makes a huge difference; if you're an experience driver you should be able to judge distance from the scale of objects as you drive (I was also driving roads I know well and I knew were my braking points were). That being said, I would recommend disconnecting your brake lights, because when I go to slow down it's almost blinding and lights up the whole interior...wait, don't take my advice I'm probably recommending something "illegal"... The same problem happen when I accelerate, even the little traction control light on my dash is blinding (I would turn off my T/C but it's a Mercedes and they make it impossible).

The short answer to your question is, yes. You can easily drive and safely navigate at night with good NV.

The problem with NV is that it's stupid expensive for anything useful, and like all electronics it's depreciation rate is just depressing. At the same time once you buy it, you'll never want to get rid of it except to upgrade. It's awesome, end of story.

My only disappointment has been finding a decent IR light-source. I bought a Surefire M962 with an IR filter and it's not good for much more than 15 yards with the 120 lumen bulb. On the other hand, the IR target designator on my Insight LAM rocks. </div></div>

The reason you are having such terrible performance with that light and an ir filter is you are basically filtering all the other light colors out of the spectrum except the ir light. You could upgrade to a KM4 head and that would give you 150 lumens of white light and probably 100-150 yards of usable ir light because it is dedicated ir not filtered light.

Chuck
 
#18
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: westford86</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got a PVS-14 earlier this year, unfortunately I still haven't shot with it for lack of a night time range. However I have spent a good amount of time playing around with it...

I think I might know what your buddy is going on about with NV being a joke. When I first got my PVS I was in Atlanta GA at the time, and their was so much ambient light that night vision offered nearly no advantage. Anyone with decent vision could see just fine at 2:00am (but I'm from the country so I hate cities and light pollution, it all seems bright to me). If he is operating in a city, I can see why he would say NV is a joke, as the ambient light is usually so overwhelming NV doesn't help much at all.

When I got back to Vermont with my PVS everything changed. I've been out kayaking on the lake with it on a clear starry night and I could distinguish shapes up to a mile away; additionally I could see perfect detail into the trees on the shoreline. Aside from everything being monochromatic you can see very well, it's really amazing technology. I was on the beach after some people had a campfire; with the naked eye it was just a black lump of coals, but with the NV it was glowing bright. Even the smallest light source is distracting with how sensitive the Gen3+ stuff is. I have also driven around the back roads with it. Personally I don't think the monocular/lack of depth of field makes a huge difference; if you're an experience driver you should be able to judge distance from the scale of objects as you drive (I was also driving roads I know well and I knew were my braking points were). That being said, I would recommend disconnecting your brake lights, because when I go to slow down it's almost blinding and lights up the whole interior...wait, don't take my advice I'm probably recommending something "illegal"... The same problem happen when I accelerate, even the little traction control light on my dash is blinding (I would turn off my T/C but it's a Mercedes and they make it impossible).

The short answer to your question is, yes. You can easily drive and safely navigate at night with good NV.

The problem with NV is that it's stupid expensive for anything useful, and like all electronics it's depreciation rate is just depressing. At the same time once you buy it, you'll never want to get rid of it except to upgrade. It's awesome, end of story.

My only disappointment has been finding a decent IR light-source. I bought a Surefire M962 with an IR filter and it's not good for much more than 15 yards with the 120 lumen bulb. On the other hand, the IR target designator on my Insight LAM rocks. </div></div>


The Surefire M962 has the option of a separate head that I think contains an IR emitter LED in addition to the standard white emitter LED. If you use a standard slip over IR filter on a white LED light I don't think you will get any IF light for your NV. Slip over filters are for white light sources and not white LED emitters.
 
#19
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

i had a older gen 2 weapon site with the elcan base mount and that was even fun with the IR illuminator for hunting raccone and coyoty next summer when my overtime kicks back in im getting a pvs-14 for use with my aimpoint m3 (hopefully the white phosphorus one) you will enjoy it i say go for it definetly gen-3 or 4 if your bugit allowes!
 
#21
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LWRC556</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are USMC Infantry. They used PVS14 and the one said he broke his at SOI. The PVS 14 is on a different sight plain than the ACOG :-(. If it worked with an ACOG I would be sold. I think it would be good for night time navigation on foot and in the vehicle. Other wise you cant see anything. Its best to move at night and if I was going to encounter anyone with skill they will attack me at night. </div></div>
<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Are you fucking retarded?</span></span></span>
 
#24
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J-Ham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I think we all pretty much know where doorkicker stands on the issue.</div></div>

He is pretty hard to read, isn't he?
 
#26
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Are you fucking retarded?</span></span></span>
</div></div>

Damn...and that was my LAPTOP keyboard...fck....
grin.gif


John - out
 
#28
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doorkicker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Are you fucking retarded?</span></span></span></div></div>

Lots of bait questions being ask of late, I believe this is just another but,
<span style="font-size: 17pt"><span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #3333FF">

Out Standing Reply
grin.gif
laugh.gif
</span></span></span>

 
#29
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

yea your buddies are POGs and are lying to you that theyre infantry if they say that...

There is a reason that taliban doesnt fuck with us much at night.

I loved my damn PVS14, still remember the serial number by heart to that baby.

I could ramble on about it but I do not feel the need. Those guys of yours are silly.
 
#30
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Standish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yea your buddies are POGs and are lying to you that theyre infantry if they say that...

There is a reason that taliban doesnt fuck with us much at night.

I loved my damn PVS14, still remember the serial number by heart to that baby.

I could ramble on about it but I do not feel the need. Those guys of yours are silly. </div></div>

What he said. Also, creative use of NV/IR could really help with air ground integration (not really going to talk about this topic).... So it's not only at the Soldier level that you have an advantage with NV, but all your other systems that compliments the individual war fighter.
 
#31
Re: How much of an advantage is night vision?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Standish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
There is a reason that taliban doesnt fuck with us much at night.
</div></div>

I got to play with a bunch of different military night vision systems a few years back (Nellis base) and they were incredible. I had no idea they had lightweight setups that could light up the night like that.

I
 
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