"How much protein" - good read

[Fox_111]

Anyone read this book?

I just finished it. It convinced me to stop buying protein shakes and maintain my creatine use.

Anyone using protein shakes should read <span style="font-style: italic">How Much Protein</span>. It will debunk a lot of spinned facts and bullshit we keep hearing in gyms, forums, magazines and products labels.

For now on, after my workout, I will only take a spoon of creatine and a shower. No more stress about eating.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fox_111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For now on, after my workout, I will only take a spoon of creatine and a shower. No more stress about eating. </div></div>


good luck with that

what and when you eat all before and after traing has alot to do what your goals are

 

[jakew912]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I'm no expert, but I don't think creatine actually builds muscle, that is what the protein is for.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jake912</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm no expert, but I don't think creatine actually builds muscle, that is what the protein is for. </div></div>

Correct , creatine hold water in the muscle cells giving a mechanical advantage = more power = the ability to train harder which will end up helpmg to build more muscle <span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> , the body is giving the nutrients it needs to grow that muscle

If Jay Cutler (current Mr. Olympia) wrote a book saying that he ate 2 cat turds with each meal and that what gove him is advantage to win the "Olympia" then Muscletech would corner the market on cat shit and every GNC would be sold out of it.

 

[jakew912]

Re: "How much protein" - good read



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If Jay Cutler (current Mr. Olympia) wrote a book saying that he ate 2 cat turds with each meal and that what gove him is advantage to win the "Olympia" then Muscletech would corner the market on cat shit and every GNC would be sold out of it. </div></div>

That is a fact. People will jump on any product that has a big name endorsing it. It isn't healthy for most of us to load up on all these supplements, because most people do not train nearly hard enough to require that stuff.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

actualy most people over train and under eat.

once you figure out what your body can deal with as far as nutrients you can tweek that around to add size and drop fat or just bulk up.

but the fact is that protein is absolutly essential for muscle growth

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I asked Ronnie Coleman about his eating: He told me he eats 6-8 times a day. They are not small meals. I asked him how many calories that was: He told me he had never counted calories. He just eats. A lot. I asked him if he ate clean. He said "not really". After he described a typical meal to me (3 chicken breasts with some rice) it was apparent he eats fairly clean. But the point is he did not put a lot of emphasis into it. I asked him what supplements he takes (I met him in a Max Muscle store). He said he drinks a protein shake if he doesn't feel like eating. The best part was when I asked him kind of protein I should buy, and he said "it don't really matta". The man just eats sensible foods in huge quantities, and lifts HEAVY. Since meeting him, I have gained 25 pounds.

-Chris

 

[Fox_111]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I was thinking like you guys before reading that book. Mainly because all I knew about protein was from reading fitness magasine and from people that are into trainning.

My first wake-up call was when my brother, who train like me, went to his doctor. She told him to drop proteins, as his levels where way too high and it was useless. My brother was trainning 4-5 days a week, eating very healty and taking a shake after every workout. He even did the 6 meals a day thing. His doctor told him to stop taking supplements and just drink a glass of milk.

Then I read the book, wich explain how the studies on protein where done. How they got their results and what worked, what did not. It confirmed what I began to suspect: It's all bullshit twisted by supplement companies and food companies to make us buy something to feel better. Much like all thos abs working machine that promise a 6 pack abs. Every one know that a 6 pack abs require a strict diet and not a fancy machine.

Ronnie Coleman eat a lot, because he train a lot. But from what I know, I suspect he could change his eating habbits and maintain keep his gains. I'm pretty sure, at his level, he should be able to pack at most 10lbs of lean mass every year untill he reach his genetic potential, wich I'm sure at his age and level, he would have reached. Unless he up the Juice dosage...

By your coments here, I think I sparked a strong reaction. I hope you guys are curious enough to at least read the book. It's floating around on the net free. Maybe it will change the way you eat.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I havent read that particular book but a couple others like it and its like everything else , for every study you see stating one thing their is another stating the opposite.

while it is true that excess protein does cause added stress to your kidneys it adds far less stress than excessive creatine does.

everybody nutrient needs are differant , some guys can get away with very little protein and a ton of carbs , carbs are protein sparing so excess carbs will prevent the body from eating at protein
BUT if you are carb sensitive then you must take in extra protein becuase the body at some point will scavange it for evergy.

I read as much as i can then i step back and see what real people are really doing to get real results and compair that to what some test results showed comming from lord only knows what kind of controled situation.

I used to think that creatine was needed to build muscle so i took it twice a day for years and it did work , but my blood test dident get stamped off with a happy face , my Dr recomended getting off of it so i cut my dose back to 5g every other day rather than 5g twice a day and added more whole food to my diet actualy upping my protein some , my latest blood test have shown a dramatic improvment accross the board. I atribute this to eating more good food and less supplements and it has sparked enough intrest for my Dr to offer to pay for my labs to have them drawn every 3 months to track my levels and such as i change my diet from off season to contest season , honestly i think he is jealous that i eat 2 pounds of beef and a dozen whole eggs a day and my labs are better than his

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fox_111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Anyone read this book?

I just finished it. It convinced me to stop buying protein shakes and maintain my creatine use.

Anyone using protein shakes should read <span style="font-style: italic">How Much Protein</span>. It will debunk a lot of spinned facts and bullshit we keep hearing in gyms, forums, magazines and products labels.

For now on, after my workout, I will only take a spoon of creatine and a shower. No more stress about eating. </div></div>

So, you are saying you have dieted based what you have heard, basically? Because the gym, forums, magazines, and product labels are not acceptable forms of literature in the scientific community. I find it disturbing that you have not mentioned reading any published scientific research.

There is overwhelming research done by the scientific community to prove that you need more than just creatine after a work out. Why? People will pay shitloads of cash to keep their health and diet and exercising are the biggest steps you can take. You think you can replace your glycogen with creatine? I suppose you think you don't use up vitamins, minerals, and sodium either. That's just insane. You will atrophy your muscles this way. Do you know anything about orthomolecular medicine? I wrote a paper over it. It is the study of enzymes(amino acids) in the human body and a frontier in medicine. Creatine is just one type of enzyme, your body has over 72,000 allowing it to function. I have formal training, as in I have taken numerous college classes, I have been working out for a very long time and I have done so on many occasion with pro-athletes, ex-pros, enthusiasts, and know what they do to diet to get the best results. Most of these guys do not have endorsement contracts and many of them retired from the sport. They generally all say the same thing, give or take. I personally know the effect a structured diet can make because I see the difference in gains when my diet is spot on and when it isn't. Honestly, if eating stresses you out, then getting into and staying in good shape isn't for you, because it is required by the laws of physics, it is not not some mysterious opinionated bullshit. Most people don't understand the math, that you only need a certain amount of protein to repair the damage you have done after a work out and that takes a little reading and listening to your body. I did not take masses of protein when I weighed 170, and I still did not when I weighed 190, but I did increase based on the amount of lean body mass I had and I did eat 6+ small balanced meals a day as well as making sure I took some form of casein protein in order to help prevent atrophy while I slept. I did not stress out over getting enough food because I enjoyed cooking new things and generally enjoy eating. I carried protein shakes and vitamins with me when I knew I would not be able to eat real food.

Taking only creatine after a work out will yield poor results. Post a photo of yourself with your shirt off, then do the same thing three to five months from now. I'll do the same, you stick to your creatine diet and I'll stick to my own. Agree and we will see who fairs best.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actualy most people over train and under eat.

once you figure out what your body can deal with as far as nutrients you can tweek that around to add size and drop fat or just bulk up.

but the fact is that protein is absolutly essential for muscle growth </div></div>

+1 Jones

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">actualy most people over train and under eat.

once you figure out what your body can deal with as far as nutrients you can tweek that around to add size and drop fat or just bulk up.

but the fact is that protein is absolutly essential for muscle growth </div></div>
through years of training i have come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as overtraining...just under eating and not enough sleep and rest...

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I havent read that particular book but a couple others like it and its like everything else , for every study you see stating one thing their is another stating the opposite.

while it is true that excess protein does cause added stress to your kidneys it adds far less stress than excessive creatine does.

everybody nutrient needs are differant , some guys can get away with very little protein and a ton of carbs , carbs are protein sparing so excess carbs will prevent the body from eating at protein
BUT if you are carb sensitive then you must take in extra protein becuase the body at some point will scavange it for evergy.

I read as much as i can then i step back and see what real people are really doing to get real results and compair that to what some test results showed comming from lord only knows what kind of controled situation.

I used to think that creatine was needed to build muscle so i took it twice a day for years and it did work , but my blood test dident get stamped off with a happy face , my Dr recomended getting off of it so i cut my dose back to 5g every other day rather than 5g twice a day and added more whole food to my diet actualy upping my protein some , my latest blood test have shown a dramatic improvment accross the board. I atribute this to eating more good food and less supplements and it has sparked enough intrest for my Dr to offer to pay for my labs to have them drawn every 3 months to track my levels and such as i change my diet from off season to contest season , honestly i think he is jealous that i eat 2 pounds of beef and a dozen whole eggs a day and my labs are better than his </div></div>
i was downing regular ass creatine monodydrate at 5grams pre, and post workout....dropped the pre workout and just used the 5 grams post with my whey, dextros, and maltodextrin and saw a huge improvement...didnt think the improvement would be so dramatic!

also, i have started taking 200mg of ALA pre, and post workout...and 600mg of N-Acetyl Cysteine pre workout...and that has really done a lot too...i think anyone taking creatine without ALA is shooting themselves in the foot..

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I asked Ronnie Coleman about his eating: He told me he eats 6-8 times a day. They are not small meals. I asked him how many calories that was: He told me he had never counted calories. He just eats. A lot. I asked him if he ate clean. He said "not really". After he described a typical meal to me (3 chicken breasts with some rice) it was apparent he eats fairly clean. But the point is he did not put a lot of emphasis into it. I asked him what supplements he takes (I met him in a Max Muscle store). He said he drinks a protein shake if he doesn't feel like eating. The best part was when I asked him kind of protein I should buy, and he said "it don't really matta". The man just eats sensible foods in huge quantities, and lifts HEAVY. Since meeting him, I have gained 25 pounds.

-Chris </div></div>
i used to do that same shit when i was bb...ronnie and some other guys told me the same thing....then i discovered when you are rocking 10iu of insulin several times a day you have to eat like that or go into a diabetic coma lol

insulin works, but is not always fun children lol

 

[jakew912]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I've read that your body can only process about 30 to 35 grams of protein at any given time and that these supplements that contain 50 or 60 grams per serving is just a waste. Just makes it harder on your body to try and get rid of the excess.

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jake912</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read that your body can only process about 30 to 35 grams of protein at any given time and that these supplements that contain 50 or 60 grams per serving is just a waste. Just makes it harder on your body to try and get rid of the excess. </div></div>
that 30grams of protein is for a average male, who doesnt workout...

when your body is in need of those nutrients, and proper insulin spikes are occuring your body can, and does absorb as much protein as you can bring in...

 

[Fox_111]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I never said I would stop eating.

In the book, they say that you need a daily dose of between 70 and 120 grams of protein. It's close to 0.7g per lbs or lean body mass.
Studies also indicate that you can take those protein in one meal or in several meals, it does not change a thing, as long as you get them in a typical 24h.

A standard north american diet contain enough protein to fall in the required amount when working out.

There is no magical window of post workout assimilation. This theory is derived from lab protocole where they use surrogate endpoint, like phosphore, to mesure musle grow. This is not effective and representative of growth, only enzymes transfert associated with growth.

Creatine is the only safe supplement proven to help in lean mass gainning. My workout is not dependant of creatine, it's only suplemented by it.

From the book:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Q: I saw in a bodybuilding magazine somewhere that my body can’t
absorb More Than 30 grams of protein at Time, is this true?</span>
A: No. Your body does not have a defined upper limit to the amount of protein it
can absorb at a given meal. Your body absorbs and uses all of the protein you
ingest at each meal. The protein you eat is first used to replenish amino acid
pools that are used for a number of cellular processes and are quite literally the
building blocks of all your body’s cells. Any excess protein above this gets
broken down to its carbon skeleton and then converted into glycogen and
stored in your liver or muscle cells or is used for energy or fat synthesis.</div></div>

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fox_111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never said I would stop eating.

In the book, they say that you need a daily dose of between 70 and 120 grams of protein. It's close to 0.7g per lbs or lean body mass.
Studies also indicate that you can take those protein in one meal or in several meals, it does not change a thing, as long as you get them in a typical 24h.

A standard north american diet contain enough protein to fall in the required amount when working out.

There is no magical window of post workout assimilation. This theory is derived from lab protocole where they use surrogate endpoint, like phosphore, to mesure musle grow. This is not effective and representative of growth, only enzymes transfert associated with growth.

Creatine is the only safe supplement proven to help in lean mass gainning. My workout is not dependant of creatine, it's only suplemented by it.

From the book:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Q: I saw in a bodybuilding magazine somewhere that my body can’t
absorb More Than 30 grams of protein at Time, is this true?</span>
A: No. Your body does not have a defined upper limit to the amount of protein it
can absorb at a given meal. Your body absorbs and uses all of the protein you
ingest at each meal. The protein you eat is first used to replenish amino acid
pools that are used for a number of cellular processes and are quite literally the
building blocks of all your body’s cells. Any excess protein above this gets
broken down to its carbon skeleton and then converted into glycogen and
stored in your liver or muscle cells or is used for energy or fat synthesis.</div></div>

</div></div>
so proven methods are now "nonsense" because of 1 book? whats next, the bloodtype diet?

what you and the book are trying to explain simply isnt how the human body works...you have a lot of points where you really do get the proper, and proven answer...but you turn the info into theory and away from proven scientific facts, into something more like SWAG.

if it works you should have no trouble winning a natural bodybuilding show within a year at sub 4% bodyfat, correct?...so until this proven and not just theorized on, it is just another guy selling a book

 

[jakew912]

Re: "How much protein" - good read


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that 30grams of protein is for a average male, who doesnt workout...

when your body is in need of those nutrients, and proper insulin spikes are occuring your body can, and does absorb as much protein as you can bring in...</div></div>

I did not know that. Would you say that it is better to take in the larger amounts of protein before, after, each workout or both?

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

the body does not convert protein to glycogen to store it , it only converts it to gylcogen when their are not enough carbs in the body to use , if glycogen or carbs to make it are presant then the excess protein is "wasted" (pissed out)
This is why its important to keep the body in a positive nitrogen balance ESPECIALY on low to no carb diets , the added protein will replenish/repair the muscle.


if excess protein were converted to glycogen then it would be easy to gain fat on a high protein no carb diet

as for when to eat it , i suggest finding a daily total and deviding that number into however many meals you eat a day this was the protein levels are stable
use faster absorbing/easly digest proteins like Whey and egg whites post workout so the body doent need to work as hard to get it

 

[bcw1284]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

silly canuck, don't believe everything you read... especially on the interwebz

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jake912</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that 30grams of protein is for a average male, who doesnt workout...

when your body is in need of those nutrients, and proper insulin spikes are occuring your body can, and does absorb as much protein as you can bring in...</div></div>

I did not know that. Would you say that it is better to take in the larger amounts of protein before, after, each workout or both? </div></div>
before and after is good....but post is always good to throw in some dextrose, maltodextrin or both(i do) with your creatine and protein...those post workout carbs will show you how important carb manipulation really is....you will get bigger and leaner....remember...glycogen comes from carbs...so always use a little with protein post work out

 

[Fox_111]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/148502529/?tab=summary

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2655433/14811780/

I guess if you are not willing to challenge what you think you know, then you will never learn.

I'm not saying I'm right or know it all. I'm just contesting everything I ear on this subject. I ear so many different things that contradicts themself or make no sense. What I like about this book is that it goes to where it all started and quote and comment differents studies.
At the end, it make a lot of sense to me. And if I compare the data provided, it match with my personal experience.

 

[benchmstr]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fox_111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/148502529/?tab=summary

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2655433/14811780/

I guess if you are not willing to challenge what you think you know, then you will never learn.

I'm not saying I'm right or know it all. I'm just contesting everything I ear on this subject. I ear so many different things that contradicts themself or make no sense. What I like about this book is that it goes to where it all started and quote and comment differents studies.
At the end, it make a lot of sense to me. And if I compare the data provided, it match with my personal experience.
</div></div>
you always have to look at, and test new ideas...folks like JJones75, and i have probably tried, and sometimes fallen for the gimmicks like everyone else...but in the end found out what works and what doesnt....you will too....just keep reading and testing and find out what works..

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fox_111</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/148502529/?tab=summary

http://www.demonoid.me/files/details/2655433/14811780/

I guess if you are not willing to challenge what you think you know, then you will never learn.

I'm not saying I'm right or know it all. I'm just contesting everything I ear on this subject. I ear so many different things that contradicts themself or make no sense. What I like about this book is that it goes to where it all started and quote and comment differents studies.
At the end, it make a lot of sense to me. And if I compare the data provided, it match with my personal experience.
</div></div>

I challenged -you-. Post a photo of yourself without your shirt and lets see if you even have the right to talk to anyone about fitness, or are you too scared? I am assuming that because you have yet to address me you are probably just the average joe looking for a way out of a disciplined diet.

Also taking in 70-120 grams all at once is asking for renal complications. Not to mention if supplement companies labeled their protein products saying, "120 grams required daily and can be taken all at once", that would just make taking the protein all the easier. Why don't they do this? Because it is not as efficient and UNHEALTHY SMARTYPANTS. Try doing that shit with carbohydrates and watch in horror as your pancreas ejects itself out of your abdomen. Consider this, do you think humans evolved to eat their meals once a day and in bulk? No, they were foragers constantly eating as they went. Berries, nuts, roots, plants, etc. The theories this book proposes are complete crap, where are their references and where is the scientific back up?

 

[Fox_111]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I have nothing to prove to -You-. I'm sorry, I don't feel like exposing my chest on the interweb. (o:


On a more serious note, the 70-120g of protein is what you should consume in your day. It's not from a shake, it's from your food. 3 meals a day should fall into this range. Depending on how well you eat and what kind of appetite you have, it should be in there. It's about 0.7g for 1lbs of lean mass.

Now, granted I've been trainning for only 3 years and started reading about nutrition and trainning for only 2 years. I don't have the experience some of you have. But one must admit, when you see studies that prove that you did something wrong and it make sence, that mean there is something going on that we don't understand.

For 3 years I've been taking my shake after my workout. I tried creatine and I'm curently re-using it to great result. I'll see if it's effects are good only for the first time or if they continue to be effective for a longer period.

The most effective thing I found to gain weight, is a good program that change every 1.5 to 2 months. Hypertrophy Specific Trainning was a revelation for me and it's principles will be applyed.

So back to nutrition, I find it important, but it's very complicated. I was about to start a 6 meals a day regiment, but I needed to understand it terougly first.

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

If you have nothing to prove then shut your ass up and take this amateur crap elsewhere. You're all talk buddy.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have nothing to prove then shut your ass up and take this amateur crap elsewhere. You're all talk buddy. </div></div>

everybody is intitled to their own oppinion , what works for him may not work for you and may not work for me. This is why its important to experiment with different ideas and principles.

over the last 19-20 years i have spent 10's of thousands of dollars trying all the new fads , from supplements to diets to workout equiptment and what i have found is that it all boils down to basic bread and butter nutrition , training and supplements. The older i get and more i learn the more i realize that its not rocket science and for the most part people tend to over think and over worry about things like number of sets and reps and exercises.

try differant things , give it an honest 3-4 weeks and see what happens then adjust as needed , the biggest thing is not to get cought up in gimics , if it sounds to good to be true it probably is

 

[head2h2o]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

Creatine is a combination of the amino acids arginine, methionine and glycine. It is definitely not the full array of amino acids needed to build muscle. A complete protein as those found in protein shakes and dietary sources of protein are what you have to have. This is validated in numerous studies showing positive nitrogen balance and a shift to an anabolic state with protein consumption post-workout. You can find all of these study abstracts and maybe a few full text articles by going to www.pubmed.com. Not to say that creatine does not have a role, but creatine alone is not going to get it done.

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JJones75</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valyndiir</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you have nothing to prove then shut your ass up and take this amateur crap elsewhere. You're all talk buddy. </div></div>

everybody is intitled to their own oppinion , what works for him may not work for you and may not work for me. This is why its important to experiment with different ideas and principles </div></div>

True, but with no physical evidence as proof it leads me to believe his posts were compulsive and arrogant, there is no reason to take his opinion seriously.

 

[JJones75]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I wouldent say that he was exactly arrogant , maybe he just feels that strongly about it.
Some people are easly sold on things without actualy seeing the proof in hand , its people like this that big companies with huge adds in fitness mags prey on. Not saying that he is bad or simple , just to trusting.

Ive said it a thousand times , some people just have to find out for them selves.

 

[Valyndiir]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

+1 agreed

 

[PaleRider77]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

as the older i get, i found that all i need is a good protein and creatine. i never saw any real difference when taking a pre workout mix, other than an accelerated heart rate which killed my cardio

 

[Big Cal]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

I think too many people want an easy way out and think if I take protein I'll get huge or the big guys at the gym are taking creative so I need to take creatine. The real fact is you need protein to build muscle to help with recovery and explosive energy creatine helps but they are not miracle drugs and you don't need to take them from day dot when you start training generally you get enough of what you need from a healthy diet and one of the biggest helps to me was a good multi vitamin to pick up anything your lacking and b group vitamins for energy but if your just starting out take nothing you'll gain for 12 months just because your muscles are developing with something new. If you want to gain size the biggest thing that helped me was having a training partner I could trust so that I could push myself or be pushed when I needed it but size came with hard work supplements helped but hard work, self control and the dedication to keep on training is what builds muscle and gets results or that's what I did and I was 183cm 103kg and 6% bodyfat so I'd say I got results

 

[dbateman]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

ok thanks for posting the link op it is good to have a look at thing from a different point of view .

I do agree with some thing's you are saying , but I also know that I need more protein than 0.7g per lb of lean mass I am try to get at lest 200g of protein a day however I also only try to have about 40g of protein at a time , but I know that some meals I have are up into the 70-80g P mark So I am not to worried about it .

I have been told buy a few people that I should be trying to get 300g P a day and just adjusting fat's and carb's around that depending on what I want to achieve . however I just can't eat that much clean food but I am working on it , I am still growing and pretty lean not in single digit body fat yet but getting there .


Anyway's enough about that I am going to the gym it's deadlift day .

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

Fox- Something else to consider is that not all "workouts" are equal. Doing curls while you blow kisses to the mirror will never evoke the hormonal stress/recovery response that a heavy squat and DL based program will. If you are doing a curl based treadmill program to try and find abz... then yeah the extra protein is a waste. If you are on a linear progression with the Big Five lifts and if you don't eat enough protein you will likely find yourself in the under-eating category after a few weeks and your progress (defined as weights going up each and every workout) will stop. If a novice lifter eats correctly, I've seen people make gains every single workout for 4-8 months depending on how genetically freaky they are. The first step is to get them to stop believing that "YOGA and Pilates strengthen, elongate, and tone". The second step is to get them to EAT... a lot. The third step is to make sure they are getting 8 hrs of sleep a night so that the hormones you have evoked with the training stress can do their job and rebuild you each night bigger and badder.

Also, if you are older (I'm 38) fish oil is awesome for creaky tendonitis prone joints... but you have to take enough that your bathroom habits may... um... change for a short period while you adjust.

 

[SeanRT]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

For active lifters, you only really need about 1.0 grams of protein/pound of body weight every day.

It cracks me up when I see these young kids (18 to 20 year olds) gobbling protein like it's going out of style; they're just producing really expensive urine (for the most part).

 

[alpha6164]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

For every opinion and book i will find you five others that will argue the opposite point and do it well. As a physician and someone that works out, if you believe that low protein is good if you are trying to add and maintain a certain level body mass then you are just kidding yourself. I am not saying that everybody needs 1.5g or protein per pound of body weight. But if you are participating in heavy intense weight lifting you best bet you need at least that amount.

Pro builders despite all the gear such HGH, insulin, anabolics they use, they still consume 300-500gr of protein daily to attain the freakish masses they get. If Jay Cutler consumed a 100g of protein daily and took all the gear he does you still think he would be that big? Hell no.

I am a 178lbs and consume 250gr of protein daily but that is because i do cardio three days a week and intense weights another three days. There are times where i am have eaten as little as 150gr and after a few days i feel it. The bottom line is that protein is the building block of muscle and without it you cant achieve it. Now if you are not into heavy weight lifting, then no one said you should consume that much protein. Hydration is the key when it comes to amount of protein consumption and kidney function. There is not a single evidence that shows that high protein will damage kidneys. Most BBers that have kidney issues come from years of abuse of certain type of anabolics that are cleared thru the kidney that can damage with long term usage.

 

[krazyh0rse]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

interesting read

 

[Va_Gentleman]

Re: "How much protein" - good read

My thoughts: Just be sure you work with your Dr. before supplementing anything other than massive amounts of normal food with your workouts.

Supplements used wrongly or not checked .. can MESS you up in the long run.