Howa 1500 Reduced Power Firing Pin Spring..?

[CK1.0]

Seems most custom M700-derived actions use much lighter firing pin springs, lightening up bolt-lift/cocking, while still getting reliable ignition.

As far as I can tell, seems like the engineers who designed the Howa 1500 action chose the spring they did in order to fear no primer and likely never need replacement.

I wonder if going to a reduced power firing pin spring in a Howa 1500 might make good, better? I'm not talking about going to a spring that might cause light-strikes or be unreliable... just strong enough to do the job, but not too much heavier than it needs to be.

I'm not complaining about the Howa bolt-lift being heavy, it runs fine, especially when running it like you mean it. I just wonder if it might be even better without being over-sprung.

The firing pin spring does look like a bitch to change out though, but can be done.

Does anyone know of a source for a reduced power firing pin spring for Howa 1500 short-action..? Like will any other action's springs work? Anyone tried one..?

 

[GSRswapandslow]

anyone?

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Call Wolf Springs... if anyone could tell you it’s them.

 

[hereinaz]

I machined the bolt to change timing and reduce cock on close. That helped. Also change the cocking ramp as well.

 

[CK1.0]

I kind of gave up on this guys... decided that when the Howa is clean and has a dollop of grease on the cocking ramp, it's absolutely fine. Mine doesn't have much (if any) cock on close.

I did perform an experiment though on a spare bolt I picked up off of eBay where I tested the limits of how good one can get the Howa's bolt-lift feel just by reshaping the cocking ramp: I got it so damn good and light, it easily rivaled any custom action out there... I just got too greedy and eventually ruined it (striker would fall off the cocked-notch).

They can really be made nice if one wants to put in the time and energy, just don't get too greedy and remove too much material anywhere troublesome, and be careful wading into those waters, gets deep fast.

 

[hereinaz]

Can you post up pictures of the work you did?

I have started on my cocking ramp and would like to see too far, lol.

 

[CK1.0]

Can you post up pictures of the work you did?

I have started on my cocking ramp and would like to see too far, lol.

Here's a pic. Looks like shit, not sure how much it'll help.

After I had gone too far I had a buddy of mine weld it up... I asked him to add too much material, I was hoping to have a lot to work with so I could "whittle" it back down to where I wanted, but he didn't get what I was talking about (or isn't very good at welding) and it didn't really work out...

 

[CK1.0]

^^^ What’s surprising is: as ugly as it is, still works 100% and feels as good or better than an Impact 737...

Looks suspect as fuck tho, so I’m still using a 100% stock/unadulterated bolt.

The experiment was indeed a success though as far as finding out what I wanted to know: someone with real skills could make a Howa action feel amazing just by reshaping the cocking ramp.

 

[BigKev72]

My bolt is already slick as whale shit on an ice flow. I tore it down, used very fine sandpaper to remove any machining marks. Reassembled and put a decent dollop of moly grease on it. I run it lightly oiled and I have zero problems with cocking pressure, movement within the action or bolt binding of any kind. It’s the slickest action I have ever owned.

 

[hereinaz]

^^^ What’s surprising is: as ugly as it is, still works 100% and feels as good or better than an Impact 737...

Looks suspect as fuck tho, so I’m still using a 100% stock/unadulterated bolt.

The experiment was indeed a success though as far as finding out what I wanted to know: someone with real skills could make a Howa action feel amazing just by reshaping the cocking ramp.

That helps to see. If I get to mine soon, I will put mine up.

You can probably trim back the cocking piece, and then move the notch deeper by that same amount. It will then get you a wider shelf.

#bubbagunsmithing

 

[CK1.0]

That helps to see. If I get to mine soon, I will put mine up.

You can probably trim back the cocking piece, and then move the notch deeper by that same amount. It will then get you a wider shelf.

#bubbagunsmithing

From doing it a couple times (getting it awesome, then ruining it, then making it work again, albeit much uglier and too suspect to really use), seems like a little bit of material added to the bottom of the ramp would be the most helpful... if you know a good welder that's what I'd do first. I don't think the cocking piece needs to be touched really.

I was really hoping my buddy was going to tig enough extra steel on there to where I could reshape the whole ramp from scratch, but he didn't get what I was talking about and the steel he added was messy and not really enough to do what I was aiming for...

The Howa's ramp is kind of steep, the cocking-piece doesn't really engage the ramp until about 1/3 to 1/2 way up, and then it starts to cock. By removing material from the top half and shaping the ramp into a shallower arc, it starts to get really good, but if it had more material at the bottom of the ramp so it would start cocking sooner, then the top half of the ramp would only have to be relaxed slightly and the notch is already in the right place. The cocking-ramp angle is just a bit steeper than it needs to be and the cocking could start earlier, that's it.

All that said, I do think the stock Howa is perfectly fine as long as it's clean and greased. But, when it gets dirty and dry you can feel it get stiffer pretty fast.

 

[hereinaz]

From doing it a couple times (getting it awesome, then ruining it, then making it work again, albeit much uglier and too suspect to really use), seems like a little bit of material added to the bottom of the ramp would be the most helpful... if you know a good welder that's what I'd do first. I don't think the cocking piece needs to be touched really.

I was really hoping my buddy was going to tig enough extra steel on there to where I could reshape the whole ramp from scratch, but he didn't get what I was talking about and the steel he added was messy and not really enough to do what I was aiming for...

The Howa's ramp is kind of steep, the cocking-piece doesn't really engage the ramp until about 1/3 to 1/2 way up, and then it starts to cock. By removing material from the top half and shaping the ramp into a shallower arc, it starts to get really good, but if it had more material at the bottom of the ramp so it would start cocking sooner, then the top half of the ramp would only have to be relaxed slightly and the notch is already in the right place. The cocking-ramp angle is just a bit steeper than it needs to be and the cocking could start earlier, that's it.

All that said, I do think the stock Howa is perfectly fine as long as it's clean and greased. But, when it gets dirty and dry you can feel it get stiffer pretty fast.

On one Howa experiment, I took nearly 1/8 inch off the cocking piece. With the firing pin further forward, it does engage the ramp sooner. I also cut the slope of the cocking piece like you did, increasing the length of the ramp. Before I did that ramp work, I cut the notch deeper to match what I took off the cocking piece and shortened the flat part before the notch. To make the lift out of the notch less, I cut that flat part at a tiny little angle so that if it slipped out of the notch, it was still actually uphill to get to the ramp.

A buddy has that rifle right now, otherwise I would get pictures. If I remember next time I will get them. He has had no problem with ignition fireforming 6 bra with small primers. That was my biggest concern, but like you I think there is plenty extra force built into the Howa firing pin assembly.

 

[hereinaz]

I will add that side by side, a new unadulterated Howa and the new experimental Howa, the experiment was nicer. But, the new Howa was nice too. It is breaking in and only getting better.

Other than Tikka, I don't think there is a better factory rifle. The two new Howa both got new 6bra barrels and the smith said they headspaced the same. I have some take off .223 barrels that I am going to spin on with an extra bolt I picked up to test it further.

 

[bhl]

Seems most custom M700-derived actions use much lighter firing pin springs, lightening up bolt-lift/cocking, while still getting reliable ignition.

As far as I can tell, seems like the engineers who designed the Howa 1500 action chose the spring they did in order to fear no primer and likely never need replacement.

I wonder if going to a reduced power firing pin spring in a Howa 1500 might make good, better? I'm not talking about going to a spring that might cause light-strikes or be unreliable... just strong enough to do the job, but not too much heavier than it needs to be.

I'm not complaining about the Howa bolt-lift being heavy, it runs fine, especially when running it like you mean it. I just wonder if it might be even better without being over-sprung.

The firing pin spring does look like a bitch to change out though, but can be done.

Does anyone know of a source for a reduced power firing pin spring for Howa 1500 short-action..? Like will any other action's springs work? Anyone tried one..?

 

[CK1.0]

That was a waste of time. I’m not sure what you meant. Of course shortening the spring would work, but thanks I guess.

I fixed my issue my just buying a 700-based action like everyone else lol.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Seems most custom M700-derived actions use much lighter firing pin springs, lightening up bolt-lift/cocking, while still getting reliable ignition.

As far as I can tell, seems like the engineers who designed the Howa 1500 action chose the spring they did in order to fear no primer and likely never need replacement.

I wonder if going to a reduced power firing pin spring in a Howa 1500 might make good, better? I'm not talking about going to a spring that might cause light-strikes or be unreliable... just strong enough to do the job, but not too much heavier than it needs to be.

I'm not complaining about the Howa bolt-lift being heavy, it runs fine, especially when running it like you mean it. I just wonder if it might be even better without being over-sprung.

The firing pin spring does look like a bitch to change out though, but can be done.

Does anyone know of a source for a reduced power firing pin spring for Howa 1500 short-action..? Like will any other action's springs work? Anyone tried one..?

I cut like a third of a coil off one of the springs in the trigger and now it’s probably the best trigger I have. Hundreds of rounds and never a miss fire. There’s a YouTube video out there on how to do it for sure watch that.

 

[spife7980]

I cut like a third of a coil off one of the springs in the trigger and now it’s probably the best trigger I have.

Dont ever try an actual good trigger then if youre satisfied.

 

[Pickle Rick]

I’ve had Timmney, Geisselle, CMC, etc. and this one is awesome. Just like lemons, there’s also sometimes gems.

 

[spife7980]

I’ve had Timmney, Geisselle, CMC, etc. and this one is awesome. Just like lemons, there’s also sometimes gems.

My comment stands.

Edit: I shouldn’t have shit on em. I’m surprised you like the hact more than the timney though. But a bix, flavio, anschutz etc are what I would call really good triggers, they just cost as much as the howa action by themselves and aren’t compatible with a howa so I shouldn’t have raised a stink in this thread

 

[Pickle Rick]

So what is a good trigger then?

 

[bhl]

I cut like a third of a coil off one of the springs in the trigger and now it’s probably the best trigger I have. Hundreds of rounds and never a miss fire. There’s a YouTube video out there on how to do it for sure watch that.

 

[bhl]

That was a waste of time. I’m not sure what you meant. Of course shortening the spring would work, but thanks I guess.

I fixed my issue my just buying a 700-based action like everyone else lol.

After what you did to that bolt I imagine you needed to buy something.

 

[CK1.0]

After what you did to that bolt I imagine you needed to buy something.

Look, I dig the Howa 1500 design a lot, but in the end, without something like that steel apparatus in the video you shared, or risking taking one of your eyes out using a vice or whatever, it's next to impossible to swap the firing spring on them.

Beyond that, I don't like clipping coils on springs unless I can easily monitor them and replace that spring easily and/or often (like I and others did for a long time with 1911's and Glock's shooting USPSA/IDPA years ago before you could order any specific springs easily). Clipped springs do strange and unusual things, mostly they die unexpectedly, which would be even more annoying when changing that spring happens to be a bitch.

If someone made a tool that was readily available (and not too expensive) to work with the 1500's or if someone like LRI or whomever offered a replacement/upgraded firing pin assembly ("fixing" them like they do for Tikka bolts) then I'd probably still be shooting a Howa, they're great actions (mostly).

Also, as far as triggers go, IMHO @spife7980 is correct, a stock Howa HACT trigger with a couple of clipped coils (or a Gunbloke "Benchrest" spring kit) isn't the greatest thing ever as far as amazing triggers go. It's definitely better than most, for sure, but that's because most triggers suck in general as a whole, lots of crappy OEM triggers out there. It's a awesome trigger for someone who's never really shot a light trigger before (I think the 2-stagy-ness helps), but good is not the same as great. For the 1500 (IMHO) the Jard trigger for the Howa is as good as it gets and is worth every penny (they'll safely go down to ~8oz and stay crisp), the Timney isn't even worth borthering with vs stock HACT IMHO (unless the 2-stage drives one crazy or something)... but, make no mistake, none of the Howa options touch a properly timed TT Diamond or top-shelf Bix N' Andy on a R700 action, they just don't, period, full stop.

The only thing the Howa 1500 needs or needed is more support, I really like the design, but it can be limiting considering what is available currently.