PRS Talk Hybrid scoring thoughts ?

[Boomhauer_lives]

So they dropped this video today



Going over changes to the scoring system for the upcoming season. And i have mixed feelings on it . I also wanna say i know the guys who put in the work to come up with this worked hard so it feels weird sharing criticism . But heres my takes

And let me preface with im not special , 18 months into this and mid pack as it gets so maybe my opinion isn't going to be considered as valuable as the top 10 percent or whatever .

There are two main parts to this . The first is hybrid scoring . This is a thought for how to deal with the meatball match issue where if you live in the right area or are willing to travel alot you can just hit the right matches where down in the 40th places people are still at the 90%’s in match percentages . Which is a legitimate issue . Its not fair that some people get a gravy train to the finale while other people get drug by some heavy hitters at some hard matches . I think anyone who follows scoring can agree this is bad . But heres my issue . As a midpack shooter the finale is a maybe it happens sorta thing . And my current state of trying to improve is based around trying to climb classifications . Like after being an absolute wreck my first year all i wanted to do is get past my am tag . Then i see im teetering around 80%s and im sure i can get there so hitting that semi tag seems achievable. But its going to be really demoralizing if the next season you’re forced to try and climb through that stuff against a field of people who did it when the system was easier . So without doing something wild like recalibrating classifications then it changing the scoring system is kinda a turn off to all the new shooters who realize they cant catch up to someone even if they shoot as good as them . To be clear i dont mind the idea of the score numbers generally being lower i think that part of it and the fact that you aren't going to make it to the finale off a bunch of 40th place 90 percent finishes is fantastic . It does solve a problem . But creates another problem is now i cant compete against the rest of the field at the metric thats meaningful to me thats really discouraging.

The second part of this is the idea of making your score require 4 matches a year . I cannot understate how much i hate this . I have been trying to drag friends into competing and getting a membership to track their stats since i started and to alot of people 3 a year sounds like a lot . I shot 3 two days my first year to get a class and then shot 6 two days this year . And i have things coming up so im sure i wont be able to shoot as many next year . Theres 3 in our state and id have to drive more than 5 hours or fly to hit another …. And to be honest i probably wont . If it moves to a 4 match needed to get a score system im probably just gonna shoot like 2 pro matches for fun and shoot a few regionals . Possibly pass on keeping an active membership . and probably build a 22 since i can shoot that all over around here . Switch from a competitive mindset to a more casual one .

Anyways i just wanted to make a thread to discuss this and maybe get some opinions on record . I really appreciate what the scoring committee is trying to do but i feel like it really might be overlooking what it looks like in practice for the very large midpack group of shooters .

 

[Hotcoffee4all]

I’m totally ignorant on the process but can ask a simple question or maybe make assumptions. Is this sorta a thinning the herd move, ensuring that more meaningful (expensive) matches get shot across a wider span of the country and make us newer and maybe mid-packers chase harder-shoot more, spend more? More matches, more gear, more consumables, etc.
dumb thoughts out loud probably.
Ironically, I built out a 2026 schedule of matches, supplies, etc. it has 8 matches on it. 4 pros and 4 regionals. All the pros are in my region luckily. Thats $1600 in match fees total w/o travel and lodging. All in I’m at about a $12,000 year of PRs shooting for next year. Wild!

 

[Rob01]

You’ll learn the PRS can fuck up a wet dream. lol

 

[Burgundy Attentive Manananggal]

So they dropped this video today



Going over changes to the scoring system for the upcoming season. And i have mixed feelings on it . I also wanna say i know the guys who put in the work to come up with this worked hard so it feels weird sharing criticism . But heres my takes

And let me preface with im not special , 18 months into this and mid pack as it gets so maybe my opinion isn't going to be considered as valuable as the top 10 percent or whatever .

There are two main parts to this . The first is hybrid scoring . This is a thought for how to deal with the meatball match issue where if you live in the right area or are willing to travel alot you can just hit the right matches where down in the 40th places people are still at the 90%’s in match percentages . Which is a legitimate issue . Its not fair that some people get a gravy train to the finale while other people get drug by some heavy hitters at some hard matches . I think anyone who follows scoring can agree this is bad . But heres my issue . As a midpack shooter the finale is a maybe it happens sorta thing . And my current state of trying to improve is based around trying to climb classifications . Like after being an absolute wreck my first year all i wanted to do is get past my am tag . Then i see im teetering around 80%s and im sure i can get there so hitting that semi tag seems achievable. But its going to be really demoralizing if the next season you’re forced to try and climb through that stuff against a field of people who did it when the system was easier . So without doing something wild like recalibrating classifications then it changing the scoring system is kinda a turn off to all the new shooters who realize they cant catch up to someone even if they shoot as good as them . To be clear i dont mind the idea of the score numbers generally being lower i think that part of it and the fact that you aren't going to make it to the finale off a bunch of 40th place 90 percent finishes is fantastic . It does solve a problem . But creates another problem is now i cant compete against the rest of the field at the metric thats meaningful to me thats really discouraging.

The second part of this is the idea of making your score require 4 matches a year . I cannot understate how much i hate this . I have been trying to drag friends into competing and getting a membership to track their stats since i started and to alot of people 3 a year sounds like a lot . I shot 3 two days my first year to get a class and then shot 6 two days this year . And i have things coming up so im sure i wont be able to shoot as many next year . Theres 3 in our state and id have to drive more than 5 hours or fly to hit another …. And to be honest i probably wont . If it moves to a 4 match needed to get a score system im probably just gonna shoot like 2 pro matches for fun and shoot a few regionals . Probably pass on keeping an active membership . and probably build a 22 since i can shoot that all over around here . Switch from a competitive mindset to a more casual one .

Anyways i just wanted to make a thread to discuss this and maybe get some opinions on record . I really appreciate what the scoring committee is trying to do but i feel like it really might be overlooking what it looks like in practice for the very large midpack group of shooters .

100% with you on this.

 

[Mongo68]

As a guy who seldom breaks 20 impacts, will there still be free stickers and chamber flags??

 

[DairyDictator]

Lot to unpack here but here goes:

And my current state of trying to improve is based around trying to climb classifications . Like after being an absolute wreck my first year all i wanted to do is get past my am tag . Then i see im teetering around 80%s and im sure i can get there so hitting that semi tag seems achievable. But its going to be really demoralizing if the next season you’re forced to try and climb through that stuff against a field of people who did it when the system was easier .

This shouldn't change much in theory. Remember, the classification structure is relative to the field anyway so climbing the class structure shouldn't be easier or harder per se as scoring methods would change across the board. The top 20% would still be pro's, next arbitrary percentage would be spro's, marksmen, etc on down the line. The scores would span a wider gap but the placement would be close to the same.

But creates another problem is now i cant compete against the rest of the field at the metric thats meaningful to me thats really discouraging.

But you just stated in the previous sentence that the metric was flawed because a mid pack guy shooting mediocre at a meatball match could walk away with enough points to earn him a spot in the top 200. That implies that the metric isn't really all that meaningful outside of a single match. In other words, a 90 point TX match (40th place) is not the same as a 90 point Nut Crusher match (top 5 or top 10 finish), so why would you want to compete using a metric that sees the two as identical?

In general, this will probably hurt more for guys that only shoot the highly competitive, tight scoring matches like TX, K&M, etc and help the guys that only shoot tougher matches like WAR, Oklahoma, and western matches. Most importanly, it should do a better job of ranking shooters despite dissimilar matches.

The second part of this is the idea of making your score require 4 matches a year . I cannot understate how much i hate this . I have been trying to drag friends into competing and getting a membership to track their stats since i started and to alot of people 3 a year sounds like a lot . I shot 3 two days my first year to get a class and then shot 6 two days this year . And i have things coming up so im sure i wont be able to shoot as many next year . Theres 3 in our state and id have to drive more than 5 hours or fly to hit another …. And to be honest i probably wont . If it moves to a 4 match needed to get a score system im probably just gonna shoot like 2 pro matches for fun and shoot a few regionals . Probably pass on keeping an active membership . and probably build a 22 since i can shoot that all over around here . Switch from a competitive mindset to a more casual one .

As it's currently written, they're still taking your top 3 matches for a classification, but is being reviewed. Top 4 scores would be considered for the finale. There are a TON more matches in recent years and a vast majority of shooters that make the finale through pro series invites (not through regional) are already shooting 5+ matches per year. With that many matches, the likelihood of more people going into the finale with perfect scores is higher. Going to 4 seems like an attempt to reward perfect scores by making them more difficult to achieve, and by the numbers wouldn't really affect who goes to the finale.

That portion of the rules would directly affect me as it may price me out of the pro series, but I do think it is the right move especially as things get more competitive and more matches are added.

I’m totally ignorant on the process but can ask a simple question or maybe make assumptions. Is this sorta a thinning the herd move, ensuring that more meaningful (expensive) matches get shot across a wider span of the country and make us newer and maybe mid-packers chase harder-shoot more, spend more? More matches, more gear, more consumables, etc.
dumb thoughts out loud probably.

I'm sure those things all go into the decision and sponsors would probably like to see increased numbers in that regard, but again those that made the finale mostly shot 5+ matches regardless, so I'm not sure that taking top 4 would make those that are willing to chase it shoot any more or less matches, see above.

 

[Boomhauer_lives]

Lot to unpack here but here goes:

This shouldn't change much in theory. Remember, the classification structure is relative to the field anyway so climbing the class structure shouldn't be easier or harder per se as scoring methods would change across the board. The top 20% would still be pro's, next arbitrary percentage would be spro's, marksmen, etc on down the line. The scores would span a wider gap but the placement would be close to the same.


But you just stated in the previous sentence that the metric was flawed because a mid pack guy shooting mediocre at a meatball match could walk away with enough points to earn him a spot in the top 200. That implies that the metric isn't really all that meaningful outside of a single match. In other words, a 90 point TX match (40th place) is not the same as a 90 point Nut Crusher match (top 5 or top 10 finish)

Ok im trying to figure out how to say this. And i get alot of people could give a crap about classification . Im just trying to describe what it looks like from where im at . Im simply trying to class up . Ideally make one jump a year . And its fun to measure yourself against the field . Makes for a good metric or what not . But with the way its changing it kinda feels like there’s a bunch of guys who could have started one or two years ahead who saw the way to play the scoring system and sorta got their climb on , got their class and now its like the ladders being pulled up behind them . Its not like they expire or roll back . Some guy coulda just shot 3 of those high scoring matches in a year to cheese out a great tag .

This isnt to say its wrong at all . I think changing the scoring system is the correct call im just trying to explain how it feels for someone who's sitting where im at using that as a metric for growth . Or as someone just getting into it .

As for the 4 matches thing . Its better that it’s just for the finale but its still offputting to people who have a hard time swinging it . I have a lot of people i try to get into it with “ its only 3 matches come get a season score and work on it from there “ and to alot of people who really enjoy shooting thats a big ask . I think the hybrid system will already make the separation this idea is looking for ( at least i think thats the intent ? ) and is more likely just to end up as a negative with less people hitting less matches . Like someones gonna look at their schedule and see they can only hit 3 so figure why bother getting a season score .

 

[Sheldon N]

So they dropped this video today



Going over changes to the scoring system for the upcoming season. And i have mixed feelings on it . I also wanna say i know the guys who put in the work to come up with this worked hard so it feels weird sharing criticism . But heres my takes

And let me preface with im not special , 18 months into this and mid pack as it gets so maybe my opinion isn't going to be considered as valuable as the top 10 percent or whatever .

There are two main parts to this . The first is hybrid scoring . This is a thought for how to deal with the meatball match issue where if you live in the right area or are willing to travel alot you can just hit the right matches where down in the 40th places people are still at the 90%’s in match percentages . Which is a legitimate issue . Its not fair that some people get a gravy train to the finale while other people get drug by some heavy hitters at some hard matches . I think anyone who follows scoring can agree this is bad . But heres my issue . As a midpack shooter the finale is a maybe it happens sorta thing . And my current state of trying to improve is based around trying to climb classifications . Like after being an absolute wreck my first year all i wanted to do is get past my am tag . Then i see im teetering around 80%s and im sure i can get there so hitting that semi tag seems achievable. But its going to be really demoralizing if the next season you’re forced to try and climb through that stuff against a field of people who did it when the system was easier . So without doing something wild like recalibrating classifications then it changing the scoring system is kinda a turn off to all the new shooters who realize they cant catch up to someone even if they shoot as good as them . To be clear i dont mind the idea of the score numbers generally being lower i think that part of it and the fact that you aren't going to make it to the finale off a bunch of 40th place 90 percent finishes is fantastic . It does solve a problem . But creates another problem is now i cant compete against the rest of the field at the metric thats meaningful to me thats really discouraging.

The second part of this is the idea of making your score require 4 matches a year . I cannot understate how much i hate this . I have been trying to drag friends into competing and getting a membership to track their stats since i started and to alot of people 3 a year sounds like a lot . I shot 3 two days my first year to get a class and then shot 6 two days this year . And i have things coming up so im sure i wont be able to shoot as many next year . Theres 3 in our state and id have to drive more than 5 hours or fly to hit another …. And to be honest i probably wont . If it moves to a 4 match needed to get a score system im probably just gonna shoot like 2 pro matches for fun and shoot a few regionals . Probably pass on keeping an active membership . and probably build a 22 since i can shoot that all over around here . Switch from a competitive mindset to a more casual one .

Anyways i just wanted to make a thread to discuss this and maybe get some opinions on record . I really appreciate what the scoring committee is trying to do but i feel like it really might be overlooking what it looks like in practice for the very large midpack group of shooters .

Hey man, great comments. Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

I think the classification system will actually get better and more accurate with hybrid scoring. If I understand correctly, the classification system looks at your points at the end of the season and takes the top 10% of shooters and marks them as "Pro", the shooters who fall into the top 20% get "Semi Pro" and so on. If you can shoot better than everyone around you then you get to climb the classification ladder. Having hybrid scoring will help make the ranking of everyone more fair since you don't have to climb above shooters who only attended high scoring matches to get their points. It doesn't matter what classes people got in prior years, all you have to do is break into the top 10, 20 or 30% of the field and you'll class up (or whatever the % cut-offs are).

On the question of whether to go to 4 matches or stay with 3 matches, I totally get how it's a tough choice.

Note that this whole scoring system proposal is just a recommendations that will go in front of the committee of 40-50 PRS Pro Series match directors. The match directors will be voting on whether to implement this, and the options presented to the match director committee to vote on will include options for a 3 match hybrid scoring season, a 4 match hybrid scoring season, or no change at all. If you have strong feelings please reach out to your local Pro Series match director and share your thoughts.

Personally, I can see how going to 4 matches for a season can be a discouragement to someone just getting started and having hopes to make it to the finale on a 3 match schedule. The reality is that it's always been very unlikely to achieve that on just three matches, mainly because of how much shooting experience it requires to get good enough to break into the top 150. Those shooters who make it have tended to be "all in" on chasing the series and pushing their performance, and as a result shoot a lot of matches. Last year the top ~200 shooters averaged 7 matches for their season.

However, it's also not just the top shooters that are shooting a lot of matches. There are more matches every year and people are shooting more. Last year, out of everyone who chased the Pro Series (shot at least 3 matches) 65% of shooters shot 4+ matches.

From a mathematical scoring perspective, a 4 match season is a great way to help spread out scores at the top. But even more impactful is that it more accurately ranks shooters on the consistency of their performance. This helps reward the highest performing mid-pack shooters on the bubble of making it into the finale. The ones who most deserve to be there (ie. the ones most likely to perform well at the finale) are the ones who will get an invite.

Anyhow, this whole PRS game is not about math or statistics. We're out there to have fun and compete against our buddies and see if we can improve. The only reason this scoring system change is being proposed is to help eliminate any perceived unfairness in the system.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I love these changes. They won't effect many people outside the top 50 or even 150.

Guys like Sheldon have put a ton of work into this and knowing how intelligent, analytical and thoughtful they are, I think everyone should give them the benefit of the doubt that they know what they are doing. These guys are all heavy invested shooters who care.

It will also help normalize matches across the country, making it so you don't have to travel to "points" matches to keep up with the pack. Its a real issue. You can instead shoot the matches YOU want to shoot, the Match directors you like to support and with the people you want to shoot with.

Taking the volatility out of the scoring and making sure the guys who deserve to be at the finale, are there and competing is important. IMO is just making the scoring more fair for everyone.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Ok im trying to figure out how to say this. And i get alot of people could give a crap about classification . Im just trying to describe what it looks like from where im at . Im simply trying to class up . Ideally make one jump a year . And its fun to measure yourself against the field . Makes for a good metric or what not . But with the way its changing it kinda feels like there’s a bunch of guys who could have started one or two years ahead who saw the way to play the scoring system and sorta got their climb on , got their class and now its like the ladders being pulled up behind them . Its not like they expire or roll back . Some guy coulda just shot 3 of those high scoring matches in a year to cheese out a great tag .

This isnt to say its wrong at all . I think changing the scoring system is the correct call im just trying to explain how it feels for someone who's sitting where im at using that as a metric for growth . Or as someone just getting into it .

As for the 4 matches thing . Its better that it’s just for the finale but its still offputting to people who have a hard time swinging it . I have a lot of people i try to get into it with “ its only 3 matches come get a season score and work on it from there “ and to alot of people who really enjoy shooting thats a big ask . I think the hybrid system will already make the separation this idea is looking for ( at least i think thats the intent ? ) and is more likely just to end up as a negative with less people hitting less matches . Like someones gonna look at their schedule and see they can only hit 3 so figure why bother getting a season score .

That's what the regional series is for. Pro series is not designed for new shooters. You are going about it the wrong way.

The sport is going to be expensive and a time sink no matter how you cut it. The VAST majority of competitors with a pro series membership shoot 4 or much more matches per season. The exception is either guys who have other priorities and are such good shooters they only have to shoot 3 matches (alwine, velyaho, Pynch, ect) or guys who were never going to be competitive anyway. And if they were THAT good of shooters, they would qualify via the regional route since most of the great regional shooters will qual under pro series points first.

Match attendance is better than ever. This will keep more people shooting in their regions (guys will still travel to support matches you love @lead ƒarmer Im looking at you!) and not force you to shoot Texas, TN and Iowa matches to keep pace.

 

[jthor]

The Hybrid scoring is a much-welcomed change.

 

[Mordamer]

This is a great set of scoring changes. I very much support it and I very much hope it becomes reality.

 

[NiteQwill]

I'm going to place my bet that attendance would drop (whether that's actual numbers, shooters who will not pay for PRS Pro membership, or both).

I may likely be wrong.

I personally think the scoring system needed an overhaul several years ago. I'm currently undecided if the execution will work. 2026 season may either be revolutionary or par for the course.