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I hate dumb Leaders

K

kilo7788

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 2, 2010
135
0
39
Monroe, Michigan
#1
So I was put on standby for a shuttle mission on saturday night. I was told standby ended at x time sunday morning. I never checked to see if it launched when I woke up this morning becasue I was too busy with other things (SUPERBOWL). I was just called and hour ago and told that the mission was scrubbed last night and back on for tonight and that I had to be at work and armed in 2 hours. I really dont care about the work becasue the missions are cool. But some NOTICE would be nice. I wish I would have been drinking my ass off so the NCOIC would look stupid. Good thing it was a good game or I would have been drinking.

Sorry just a rant.
 
#3
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

Failure to plan, Graham.

Mission A for day 1, mission B for day 2. Multiple crews for multiple missions, crew assignments complete at least 72 hours in advance.

Result? Nobody gets called at home and told "Show time in 2 hours, and you'd better be sober."
 
#4
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hink</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Failure to plan, Graham. Mission A for day 1, mission B for day 2. Multiple crews for multiple missions, crew assignments complete at least 72 hours in advance. Result? Nobody gets called at home and told "Show time in 2 hours, and you'd better be sober."</div></div>I'm not defending them, but they didn't fail to plan to launch the shuttle.
wink.gif


That said, it <span style="font-style: italic">is</span> the military, they remind you of that often, and as I remember it that kind of thing isn't unusual in service of Country, no matter what Service you're in.

Admittedly, it sucks to get the call.
 
#5
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

Noted, Graham.
smile.gif


I'm quite sure that a shuttle launch has been delayed at least once in the past. More often than not, multiple times.

I'm not defending them, either. All I'm saying is that the OP's group could have avoided a potential personnel capability issue with proper planning.
 
#6
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

I know what thats like, when I was over in Iraq, I had thrown out my back and was on bed rest for a week, sucked ass, during that time period one of our guys got sent home due to having turretts and having seizures (excuse the spelling, been drinking) Anyways, I got woken up just after going to bed and taking a muscle relaxant to go and "guard" the gym as thats what his duties were while waiting to go home.

Nothing like trying to stay awake while some hard core muscle relaxants are flowing through the system and sitting there doing absolutely nothing.

If you get to see the shuttle launch then it makes up for all the bullshit, damn I'd love to see one launch in person, even 20 miles or so away. Thats got to be really awsome to see.
 
#7
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

Hell be happy they gave you 2 hrs. When I was in the Army there would be times I was only half way home when they would call me back for some bullshit formation for a Fucking BC wanting to give a speach, that couldn't keep the one He had scheduled for earlier in the day. Welcome to the Military and Yes it only gets worse.
 
#9
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dumb leaders,I am still wondering how the US won WWII. </div></div>

We had more shit than the other guy!!
 
#10
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nock</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dumb leaders,I am still wondering how the US won WWII.</div></div>We had more shit than the other guy!!</div></div>If you are really interested in some of the reasons why we won WWII, and the similarities and differences between then and now, read this thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...307#Post1582307
Among other things, it's a discussion about leadership in military organizations.
 
#12
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Those two guys helped a bit..."Fat man" and "Little Boy"
</div></div>Actually, the consensus among historians is that the war was won by then. The justification for using the Bomb, when doing so was being discussed by the Cabinet, was to save American lives by helping bring hostilities to a swifter conclusion.

The President contemplated dropping the first bomb on an unpopulated island in the south pacific as a demonstration, but the military could not give solid assurances that the thing would even work properly, so they nixed that idea in favor of its use on Japan's infrastructure.
 
#13
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

"Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics." Supposedly attributed to Gen Bradley. It is true. We had more shit than the other guy. My great uncle was a Sherman tank commander in WWII and he told my Dad when they were invading Europe that when a tank would go down they wouldn't even bother to fix it. They had so many tanks coming in, it was easier for them to just replace it with a new one. Leadership played a part in winning WWII, but it was just sheer numbers that won us WWII.
 
#14
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

Are you familiar with the concept "S**t job = you"? Everyone that has ever worn the uniform knows what I mean. Show up for duty even with just 2 hrs notice but you are drunk? Guess what you will be doing for a very long time. Ever one of them that your NCOIC can arrange. Yes they could have done their job better but what stopped you from checking before you went to bed last night to see if there were any updates?
 
#16
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics." Supposedly attributed to Gen Bradley. It is true. We had more shit than the other guy. My great uncle was a Sherman tank commander in WWII and he told my Dad when they were invading Europe that when a tank would go down they wouldn't even bother to fix it. They had so many tanks coming in, it was easier for them to just replace it with a new one. Leadership played a part in winning WWII, but it was just sheer numbers that won us WWII.</div></div>Bradley wasn't a strategist. In truth, Sun Tzu reduces even Napoleon to a mere General - one who wins wars by fighting.

If numbers won wars India would have been independent long before Ghandi, Germans would now be speaking Russian and Israel would have disappeared four times into the sea.

We had more shit in Vietnam. And we have ten times the shit in Iraq in Afghanistan. Yet all have taken longer than did WWII.
 
#17
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Amateurs talk strategy, professionals talk logistics." Supposedly attributed to Gen Bradley. It is true. We had more shit than the other guy. My great uncle was a Sherman tank commander in WWII and he told my Dad when they were invading Europe that when a tank would go down they wouldn't even bother to fix it. They had so many tanks coming in, it was easier for them to just replace it with a new one. Leadership played a part in winning WWII, but it was just sheer numbers that won us WWII.</div></div>Bradley wasn't a strategist. In truth, Sun Tzu reduces even Napoleon to a mere General - one who wins wars by fighting.

If numbers won wars India would have been independent long before Ghandi, Germans would now be speaking Russian and Israel would have disappeared four times into the sea.

We had more shit in Vietnam. And we have ten times the shit in Iraq in Afghanistan. Yet all have taken longer than did WWII. </div></div>

That is some tangent you went on!!
crazy.gif
 
#18
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chris112</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you familiar with the concept "S**t job = you"? Everyone that has ever worn the uniform knows what I mean. Show up for duty even with just 2 hrs notice but you are drunk? Guess what you will be doing for a very long time. Ever one of them that your NCOIC can arrange. Yes they could have done their job better but what stopped you from checking before you went to bed last night to see if there were any updates? </div></div>

So wow, no one ever told me that once I was off duty that I was never allowed to drink because I would always have to be ready to go on duty. I wore a uniform and have no idea what you mean!
 
#19
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chris112</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you familiar with the concept "S**t job = you"? Everyone that has ever worn the uniform knows what I mean. Show up for duty even with just 2 hrs notice but you are drunk? Guess what you will be doing for a very long time. Ever one of them that your NCOIC can arrange. Yes they could have done their job better but what stopped you from checking before you went to bed last night to see if there were any updates? </div></div>

So wow, no one ever told me that once I was off duty that I was never allowed to drink because I would always have to be ready to go on duty. I wore a uniform and have no idea what you mean! </div></div>

Must have been a Cub Scout uniform.
The Army always let me know when I was subject to being called out on 2 hours (or less) notice and there was no doubt I my mind that I had better be there on time and sober. The rest of the time just had to quit in time to be sober when I next had to be report for duty.
 
#20
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chris112</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: chris112</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you familiar with the concept "S**t job = you"? Everyone that has ever worn the uniform knows what I mean. Show up for duty even with just 2 hrs notice but you are drunk? Guess what you will be doing for a very long time. Ever one of them that your NCOIC can arrange. Yes they could have done their job better but what stopped you from checking before you went to bed last night to see if there were any updates? </div></div>

So wow, no one ever told me that once I was off duty that I was never allowed to drink because I would always have to be ready to go on duty. I wore a uniform and have no idea what you mean! </div></div>

Must have been a Cub Scout uniform.
The Army always let me know when I was subject to being called out on 2 hours (or less) notice and there was no doubt I my mind that I had better be there on time and sober. The rest of the time just had to quit in time to be sober when I next had to be report for duty. </div></div>

Hahahahaha, you funny!!
crazy.gif
 
#21
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is some tangent you went on!!
crazy.gif
</div></div>That's an intelligent reply, especially considering that it wasn't a tangent.
 
#22
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kilo7788</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I was put on standby for a shuttle mission on saturday night. I was told standby ended at x time sunday morning. I never checked to see if it launched when I woke up this morning becasue I was too busy with other things (SUPERBOWL). I was just called and hour ago and told that the mission was scrubbed last night and back on for tonight and that I had to be at work and armed in 2 hours. I really dont care about the work becasue the missions are cool. But some NOTICE would be nice. I wish I would have been drinking my ass off so the NCOIC would look stupid. Good thing it was a good game or I would have been drinking.

Sorry just a rant. </div></div>

As a leader (business owner), here's my rant. Guys that think that I have 110% of the responsibility to make sure they know where they need to be and when. You obviously knew that there was a chance that you'd be needed to work, that's why you called in, so why doesn't it fall under the employees responsibility to maybe care about his employer just a little and be proactive? Why when you are proactive is it such a huge inconvenience that you have to post about it on the internet?

I don't mean to take it out on the OP but this has been a bitch of mine lately. The last I checked I pay a very good wage and do so because I think that I hire responsible and mature adults. However, for some reason, if certain guys don't have their hands held every damn day they would cease to do their job. It amazes me.....there was a time when an employee worked hard and respected his employer for giving him a job, now a days it's like my paying them to be show up and do their job is a huge inconvenience for them.
 
#23
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

It was just one dirtbag NCO that failed to notify his team. And had I known there was a possibility of a launch I would have slept more so I wasnt falling asleep.

rero360 Wish I could have seen it. But we were the primary once around abort site last night. We were never near kennedy. I am in New Mexico. But it is cool to have the radio in hand and to hear the countdown.

BTW this is possibly the last shuttle mission.
 
#24
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is some tangent you went on!!
crazy.gif
</div></div>That's an intelligent reply, especially considering that it wasn't a tangent. </div></div>

Maybe he thought you were being obtuse
wink.gif
 
#25
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, the consensus among historians is that the war was won by then. </div></div>

If that was the case, then what do you do with the casualty numbers the war planners expected from a mainland assault on Japan? Interesting that it took the second bomb to get them to the table. Pretty resilient from a nation who was defeated.
 
#26
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kilo7788</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I was put on standby for a shuttle mission on saturday night. I was told standby ended at x time sunday morning. I never checked to see if it launched when I woke up this morning becasue I was too busy with other things (SUPERBOWL). I was just called and hour ago and told that the mission was scrubbed last night and back on for tonight and that I had to be at work and armed in 2 hours. I really dont care about the work becasue the missions are cool. But some NOTICE would be nice. I wish I would have been drinking my ass off so the NCOIC would look stupid. Good thing it was a good game or I would have been drinking.

Sorry just a rant. </div></div>

As a leader (business owner), here's my rant. Guys that think that I have 110% of the responsibility to make sure they know where they need to be and when. You obviously knew that there was a chance that you'd be needed to work, that's why you called in, so why doesn't it fall under the employees responsibility to maybe care about his employer just a little and be proactive? Why when you are proactive is it such a huge inconvenience that you have to post about it on the internet?

I don't mean to take it out on the OP but this has been a bitch of mine lately. The last I checked I pay a very good wage and do so because I think that I hire responsible and mature adults. However, for some reason, if certain guys don't have their hands held every damn day they would cease to do their job. It amazes me.....there was a time when an employee worked hard and respected his employer for giving him a job, now a days it's like my paying them to be show up and do their job is a huge inconvenience for them. </div></div>

Im all about being proactive. It prevents time wasting and makes jobs much easier. But my orders were to stand down at a certain time and assume my duty for the mission was over. I was called 14 hours after the standdown time.
 
#27
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

Just be glad you are not in a unit that has the month long ready status...It's more prevalent in the 82nd from what I understand, but one of our grunt companies was put on it in 2004. They couldn't drink for a month. Do you know how fucking irritated grunts get when they can't drink? on the upside, it really lowered their DUI's for the month. hahaha
 
#29
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is some tangent you went on!!
crazy.gif
</div></div>That's an intelligent reply, especially considering that it wasn't a tangent.</div></div>Maybe he thought you were being obtuse
wink.gif
</div></div>LOL!
laugh.gif


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Actually, the consensus among historians is that the war was won by then.</div></div>If that was the case, then what do you do with the casualty numbers the war planners expected from a mainland assault on Japan? Interesting that it took the second bomb to get them to the table. Pretty resilient from a nation who was defeated. </div></div>I get your point. I think we're saying the same thing: that the intent was to end the fighting and minimize loss of life, even though Japan could not have won the war after the fuel and resources necessary for offensive warfare ran out.
 
#30
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

I can relate this all with the 6 Ps.
Proper
Planing
Prevents
Piss
Poor
Performance

The mission's late recall could have been prevented with the planning of a lonoger standby period and better commmunication.

The Nuke employmant was a better example in which the plan was to hasten the end of the war and save many American and Japanese lives. As a Japan invasion would have ended in many more lives list on both sides.
 
#31
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

I thought all you Air Farce guys voted on stuff anyway! Didnt you tell them it was after 9-5 working hrs? Did you not have a warm heated room, with 3 meals of hot chow, clean warm uniforms and probably internet and satelite tv? Probably didnt have to PT at all that week, carry anything heavy or get wet or cold. SO STOP WHINNING!!!!!!!!!!!

Show up to any Army or Marine unit, drunk and whinning and piss off a NCOIC, and you will have a reason to whine!

Stand by means ready for duty, if your not ready its DERELICTION OF DUTY!!!
 
#32
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

The_Punisher

For one. I may be in the Chair Force but dont get me confused with those other idiots that done even act like they are in the military. I probbbly have more time carrying a gun on duty, shooting, and doing Hua stuff than you do. I hate most people in Air Force for those reasons.

Two. For the 3rd or 4th time I was released from standby! Clearly if you are a Marine or in the Army you cant get that from reading I have to spell it out. I WAS NOT ON STANDBY! I WAS NOT DRINKING BUT I COULD HAVE BEEN DUE TO THE SUPERBOWL.

Also since I see that your location is in Michigan I can guess that you are 1. not on active duty and you are a weekend warrior. 2. You are a recruiter or 3. you are retired. If you are retred more power to you. But if you are 1 or 2. Grow up and get a real job.
 
#34
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

I am naive. But you are as well thinking I am some Air Force dweeb. And I did mention retired and said more power to ya. So STOP WHINING! j/k I didn't start this thread to fight. I started it to vent/whine.
 
#35
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think we're saying the same thing: that the intent was to end the fighting and minimize loss of life, even though Japan could not have won the war after the fuel and resources necessary for offensive warfare ran out. </div></div>

Yeah, I get your point. In the big picture, the fact that the war had come down to a serious discussion about a mainland invasion showed that Japan was backed into the corner. All the island hopping was mopping up and the only thing left to do was to annihilate the Japanese to the last man at a huge Allied cost. A scenario that would have been disquieting to Tzun Tzu. A war of attrition is certainly to be avoided.
 
#36
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

He could have planned better but you are in the military and you have to put up with dumb shit like that. When I was in the Air Force I worked with civilians and they had to have 72 hours heads up for their schedule to be changed, we didn't need any heads up as long as it didn't violate our crew rest. Now I am a civilian and I get the 72 hour heads up. Might want to think about cross training.
 
#37
Re: I hate dumb Leaders

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Knife</div><div class="ubbcode-body">He could have planned better but you are in the military and you have to put up with dumb shit like that. When I was in the Air Force I worked with civilians and they had to have 72 hours heads up for their schedule to be changed, we didn't need any heads up as long as it didn't violate our crew rest. Now I am a civilian and I get the 72 hour heads up. Might want to think about cross training. </div></div>

I love my job that I was Forced Cross trainded into. So no cross trains for me. And this was just a special mission. My every day job is the best in the world.
 
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