- Thread starter RFutch
- Start date
You need to get your powder charge figured out.
Yeah, something doesn't look right...
Were you shooting those groups yesterday at Strategic Edge by chance..? ...with all kinds of peeps bumping those benches that are all connected sending vibrations down the whole line... that could've been the problem right there (seems Memorial Day weekend at the gun range is like church on Christmas, everyone comes out of the woodwork lol). Shooting groups off those benches can be a frustrating bitch if the range isn't kind of dead IMO, if it's even semi-crowded there and I need to shoot some groups, I go prone so I don't end up going crazy lol.
Were you shooting those groups yesterday at Strategic Edge by chance..? ...with all kinds of peeps bumping those benches that are all connected sending vibrations down the whole line... that could've been the problem right there (seems Memorial Day weekend at the gun range is like church on Christmas, everyone comes out of the woodwork lol). Shooting groups off those benches can be a frustrating bitch if the range isn't kind of dead IMO, if it's even semi-crowded there and I need to shoot some groups, I go prone so I don't end up going crazy lol.
Weird.
I'm always more apt to blame the shooter before blaming the rig, but you might have something going on... these days it's rare to see any bolt-gun that won't consistently print 1" or less regardless of what one is feeding it...
Ive got the exact same barrel, I have not shot any rounds through it, waiting on my CDG action. Ive taken a couple of OAL measurements using a hornady modified case.
77SMK 2.390
80.5 berger full bore 2.500
80 eld 2.540
Dont know if those will help but if you need a measurement ill try and get it.
77SMK 2.390
80.5 berger full bore 2.500
80 eld 2.540
Dont know if those will help but if you need a measurement ill try and get it.
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Maybe it's jus a bad barrel. I don't know. You didn't mention any muzzle devices. If there is one remove and try. While I think it's a remote possibility check for a loose barrel. Also check to make sure that barrel is staying free floated
You need to talk to the people that turned that barrel. I would have already taken it off and sent it back. The price of components now outweigh screwing around trying to find something it likes. I have a Criterion 223 on a savage that prints a edge to edge group at 0.31" take out the bullet diameter and it is 0.086" group. That is 5 shots with a 60gr vmax with a 1-9tw 223 chamber. This the first group after a 20 round break in. I have repeated it 3x so it was not a fluke.
At least call them and see what they say.
At least call them and see what they say.
The chassis is rarely part causing the problem. Loosen your action action screws one at a time and see if the action pulls up out of the chassis. Sometimes a base needs bedded too when an action is banana shaped. Has this action shot well with another barrel? If so I would be sending the barrel back.
Yes, its an Origin. Previously it had a PVA 6.5x47 on it that shot in the .3's
Damn, time to pull that barrel if you had success like that with the other barrel .
Holy shit, I didn’t know they made 22cal rifled shotguns. I probably missed it but who chambered the barrel? Was it PVA? Even with a book load spec’d right from Nosler, I was getting consistent .5-.75 with their 55gr BT bullets in my 223 with cfe223. My buddies random ass load for his 223 grouped .3 in my barrel with 75’s.
For reference it was a 22” Krieger prefit on an origin in a bedded Manners LRH.
Good plan of action is to talk to whoever chambered it and made the barrel which it sounds like you are doing. Hopefully the issue will be rectified for the better.
For reference it was a 22” Krieger prefit on an origin in a bedded Manners LRH.
Good plan of action is to talk to whoever chambered it and made the barrel which it sounds like you are doing. Hopefully the issue will be rectified for the better.
Have you borescoped it ? I feel for you. I went through this with a 300winmag for far longer than I should have. It finally shoots now.
One thing I started doing for seating depth was moving in .003" at a time. I thought it sounded crazy until I tried it. There's a reason the benchrest and F class guys do it. I've also found the round Robin method of shooting groups helped me.
What do you start your jump at during load development? I always started at .020"jump but I've found the hornady bullets tend to want to be closer. I start them at .010" now.
One thing I started doing for seating depth was moving in .003" at a time. I thought it sounded crazy until I tried it. There's a reason the benchrest and F class guys do it. I've also found the round Robin method of shooting groups helped me.
What do you start your jump at during load development? I always started at .020"jump but I've found the hornady bullets tend to want to be closer. I start them at .010" now.
I still havent seen where you tried a proper powder test.
I hear you and I’m not disagreeing with you. But shouldn’t the dozens of leads I have shot shown some accuracy potential? Even the couple that have shown shot ok, when I re-test are more shot gun patterns.
What makes you think that dozens of the same wrong thing should eventually be right?
Not right but I would think it should at least be “ok”. Gonna see what PVA suggests and go from there. If I have to start over and do an OCW I will. But I at least want to get them involved at this point.
I missed where it shot ok with the FGMM 77g. Did you use the same powder with the 75 and 88.5. How many powders have you tried. My 223 bolt action will shoot basically any quality bullet better than that.
I have never experienced a barrel that doesn't like a certain powder. I have had barrels that didn't like a certain bullet. I have been told the same thing happens with powder. I would still be pretty suspect of the barrel. Shooting FGMM well kinds of points to something else being the problem though.
If PVA tests it and it shoots I’ll accept that. However at this point I want someone other than me to prove it does lol.
Did you read what he wrote ?
Yeah ;
Yes same powder just varget for both.
Didn't see this until after I'd posted ;
Already got a response from PVA with a return label. They want to look at it/shoot it.
Got my barrel back a few weeks ago. They re cut the crown and said everything else looked good. Finally got it back out today and shot an OCW with 80SMK cause I ran out of 85.5s. I’m thinking I should have loaded a 25.3 and that 25.1 might be the OCW? What are your guys thoughts?
25.1-25.3 Varget. Straight 223. 80 SMK. Varying degrees of Varget crunch. Is that stout charge?
That looks much better than the groups you posted earlier.
Personally, I think that OCW and node stuff is nonsense, I'd just pick a middle of the road speed/charge, maybe/maybe-not play with finding a jump the bullet likes, and be done with it.
Surprisingly (or maybe not so surprisingly) I've found that if I put the same amount of powder into each case (down to the kernel) and prep/load each case the exact same as I possibly can... I always end up with good ES/SD numbers, can print small groups, and always seem to end up "in a node" lol. They way I see it, even if you end up with a "bad load", if you can make that same "bad load" over and over again... you'll be fine.
Nowadays, when it comes to shooting small groups, I think how I slept the night before or what I had for breakfast probably matters more than what charge weight I end up going with.
If anything, these days I actually consider my net MV versus what my eyes/brain can see downrange more so than anything else... ~2750-2850fps I can usually tell where I impacted on a plate at as close as 300yrds (whether low-left or high-right, etc), much faster than that and I can't really tell where I'm hitting until out to ~500-600yrds... YMMV.
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I certainly wouldnt assume you should load higher over max because it didnt shoot reasonably at safe pressures.
Its never the answer and is usually the opposite of the solution.
How far off the lands were these 80s seated at?
Maybe the barrel just doesnt like varget.
Maybe its the brass it doesnt like.
Its really hard trying to keep track of these scattered tests without all the info included with the targets and then trying to back into what you are doing in the first place.
You aren't using mixed brass or something like that are you? I am going to be disappointed if my PVA 223 barrels doest shoot better than that.
It will. A month ago because of this thread I ran a little test since he said he was having issues with the 75s and I had a few left overs.
I didn’t measure as I didnt have the rifle here to check on and just took my old .062 freebore wylde load, backed my micrometer setting out .040 to hopefully match this barrels .100 freebore and got these results when . Should be ~.020 off the lands.
Forgot to share it up until now.
Here is a new proof prefit on a TL3. Sighed in with Berger Factor 77 OTM's. I also loaded 85.5 Berger at 2.510 and 24.2 of N140. Walked it out to 600 and it shot amazing.
First 5 rounds on the barrel at 100 during rezero
First 5 rounds on the barrel at 100 during rezero
Update.
Sent PVA pics of this latest set of groups and asked them what I should do next. They responded with they are replacing the barrel for me within the next couple weeks.
Sent PVA pics of this latest set of groups and asked them what I should do next. They responded with they are replacing the barrel for me within the next couple weeks.
I'll have to keep any eye on this thread. I also have a PVA 223 barrel (replacement barrel) and it has been frustrating to say the least trying to find a load. It's a shouldered Origin barrel. I only put 100 rounds through it but nothing showed much promise.
What powder/ bullets are you using.
Which freebore were your two barrels?
Update:
So I guess I need to eat some crow. A buddy gave me a few rounds of Sig 77 gr to try and it shot great. So I figured let’s try some ball powder and see what it does. I bought a pound of Staball Match and shot it yesterday. Groups are much better. I guess this barrel just doesn’t like varget, which is disappointing but not the end of the world I guess. I’ll be calling PVA tomorrow to cancel the replacement barrel.
So I guess I need to eat some crow. A buddy gave me a few rounds of Sig 77 gr to try and it shot great. So I figured let’s try some ball powder and see what it does. I bought a pound of Staball Match and shot it yesterday. Groups are much better. I guess this barrel just doesn’t like varget, which is disappointing but not the end of the world I guess. I’ll be calling PVA tomorrow to cancel the replacement barrel.
