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Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know nothing about gas guns. Here is my question? Should I just buy whatever dpms I want and turn around and order a new topshelf barrel? Would this make the gun? A gas gun is all about the barrel only correct? Everything else is the same as every other gas gun? There is no headspacing of the new barrel? How does that work? </div></div>
Not really. The trick to a gas gun is three fold. First off is a good barrel. Some factory tubes will do this but quality is hit and miss, I've had good luck. Second is a good trigger, a good trigger is a must. And third and really equally important as the barrel is the gas system. An adjustable gas system is wonderful thing. One can get a sub moa gas gun without one but it much more capable of it with one.
On the headspace issue it is highly advisable to headspace a new barrel when you get it. Some don't and it works for them but it is a good idea to do so. If your barrel doesn't headspace properly then you need to send the barrel back and get a new one or the best route is to send your bolt to whoever makes you barrel and let them headspace it there.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know nothing about gas guns. Here is my question? Should I just buy whatever dpms I want and turn around and order a new topshelf barrel? Would this make the gun? A gas gun is all about the barrel only correct? Everything else is the same as every other gas gun? There is no headspacing of the new barrel? How does that work? </div></div>
Not really. The trick to a gas gun is three fold. First off is a good barrel. Some factory tubes will do this but quality is hit and miss, I've had good luck. Second is a good trigger, a good trigger is a must. And third and really equally important as the barrel is the gas system. An adjustable gas system is wonderful thing. One can get a sub moa gas gun without one but it much more capable of it with one.
On the headspace issue it is highly advisable to headspace a new barrel when you get it. Some don't and it works for them but it is a good idea to do so. If your barrel doesn't headspace properly then you need to send the barrel back and get a new one or the best route is to send your bolt to whoever makes you barrel and let them headspace it there.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
Dont know a great deal about the 308 gassers, but have owned many ar's in 5.56 and the best shooting one to date is the rock river arms. It is head a shoulders above the others I have owned. I have the predator pursuit model and talk about a shooter. The quality of RRA is superb. I am currently in the save for a gun mode and the next one I get will be the rra 308 varmint with 20' stainless bar. Just my opinion.
Dont know a great deal about the 308 gassers, but have owned many ar's in 5.56 and the best shooting one to date is the rock river arms. It is head a shoulders above the others I have owned. I have the predator pursuit model and talk about a shooter. The quality of RRA is superb. I am currently in the save for a gun mode and the next one I get will be the rra 308 varmint with 20' stainless bar. Just my opinion.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
I'm not hip to the jive you young people be laying down. Perhaps a bit more empirical instead of head and shoulders. Compare groups, ability to hold POI as the weapon heats, how wide a variety of ammo it eats...
That would be helpful.
I'm not hip to the jive you young people be laying down. Perhaps a bit more empirical instead of head and shoulders. Compare groups, ability to hold POI as the weapon heats, how wide a variety of ammo it eats...
That would be helpful.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
There is one sitting on GAPs table at SHOT, complete with target, and it is 1/2 moa easily. I'm not sure if anybody bought it at SHOT but it is an awesome looking stick, and shoots to boot!!
There is one sitting on GAPs table at SHOT, complete with target, and it is 1/2 moa easily. I'm not sure if anybody bought it at SHOT but it is an awesome looking stick, and shoots to boot!!
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
I had a RRA 20" that would shoot handloads into 1/2 MOA, FGGM into 3/4 and Military 155??? Ball into 1". This was after a good trigger and and freefloated the forearm. I just got tired of chasing and beat up brass.
A friend has the DPMS 20" and it shoots just as well.
If you have the $$ get the GAP. If you only can do $1200 get a RRA. YMMV
I had a RRA 20" that would shoot handloads into 1/2 MOA, FGGM into 3/4 and Military 155??? Ball into 1". This was after a good trigger and and freefloated the forearm. I just got tired of chasing and beat up brass.
A friend has the DPMS 20" and it shoots just as well.
If you have the $$ get the GAP. If you only can do $1200 get a RRA. YMMV
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brut Force</div><div class="ubbcode-body">being a "Staffy" it's "obvious" why your not sensitive to distance....it is "always" a variable along with quantum mechanics,charges,weights,environment et.al..especially in 308..it was a simple but valid question...if you "hate this BS" and just want to be "pissy" ... I doubt anyone but Oprah will respond to you ..
"Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent
on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun."
(3yrs in-country), "lifetime Scout Sniper"
</div></div>
I'm going to make the assumption you're talking to me- the "rank" listed under someone's name is relative to their post count; not the rank I actually hold.
Second- three years in country doesn't impress too many people around here; including myself. We've been doing this for 9.5 years now- if you've been in most of that time, you SHOULD have 3-4 deployments.
Third- "life time scout sniper"... you do realize about half of the guys on here are current or former military snipers right? That's like walking into the 82nd with jump wings on and proudly announcing that <span style="text-decoration: underline">YOU</span> are airborne.
Last- Stating that you want a rifle that will hold 1/2 MOA at 500m is exactly the same as stating you want a rifle that will hold 1/2MOA at 100m. Any failure to move that consistency to further distance is a result of the shooter- not the weapon; yes, environment, wind, atmosphere do have an impact on shot placement. But if it is not corrected for, it is not the fault of the rifle, it is the fault of the shooter. Groups spread at a constant rate assuming the shooter doesn't screw it up. 1/2 moa @500m is a testament to the shooter's ability... not the rifle's ability. THAT is the BS I hate- someone firing a rifle that groups 1/2" @ 100 who holds 1.5moa @ 500 and calling it the equipment.
Back to your regularly scheduled programing
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brut Force</div><div class="ubbcode-body">being a "Staffy" it's "obvious" why your not sensitive to distance....it is "always" a variable along with quantum mechanics,charges,weights,environment et.al..especially in 308..it was a simple but valid question...if you "hate this BS" and just want to be "pissy" ... I doubt anyone but Oprah will respond to you ..
"Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent
on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun."
(3yrs in-country), "lifetime Scout Sniper"
</div></div>
I'm going to make the assumption you're talking to me- the "rank" listed under someone's name is relative to their post count; not the rank I actually hold.
Second- three years in country doesn't impress too many people around here; including myself. We've been doing this for 9.5 years now- if you've been in most of that time, you SHOULD have 3-4 deployments.
Third- "life time scout sniper"... you do realize about half of the guys on here are current or former military snipers right? That's like walking into the 82nd with jump wings on and proudly announcing that <span style="text-decoration: underline">YOU</span> are airborne.
Last- Stating that you want a rifle that will hold 1/2 MOA at 500m is exactly the same as stating you want a rifle that will hold 1/2MOA at 100m. Any failure to move that consistency to further distance is a result of the shooter- not the weapon; yes, environment, wind, atmosphere do have an impact on shot placement. But if it is not corrected for, it is not the fault of the rifle, it is the fault of the shooter. Groups spread at a constant rate assuming the shooter doesn't screw it up. 1/2 moa @500m is a testament to the shooter's ability... not the rifle's ability. THAT is the BS I hate- someone firing a rifle that groups 1/2" @ 100 who holds 1.5moa @ 500 and calling it the equipment.
Back to your regularly scheduled programing
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
This is what every shooter needs to do. We all need to let DP425 teach us how to hold a 1/2 moa group at any distance in any condition. As he explained in his post it's all the shooters fault for not being able to do this. I do apologize for geting off topic but my god. I'm from Missouri the "show me state" Please drive down from Michigan and show me how in the hell I can hold 1 MOA at any given distance on any given day with any rifle, You can pick the weapon. I DON'T CARE. IT CAN'T BE DONE. To get back on topic. I do have an AR-10T and love the rifle. It will hold 3/4 MOA in the real world. I reload and it helps a lot. I have a quality scope (Night Force 3-15x50 MLR mil mil) and it helps. Can I make the rifle shoot 1/2 moa all day NO. Some autos will, but they are not cheap, and I'm not so sure they will all day. If you must have a weapon that will hold 1/2 moa,I think an auto is going to disapoint. Good luck with your search.
This is what every shooter needs to do. We all need to let DP425 teach us how to hold a 1/2 moa group at any distance in any condition. As he explained in his post it's all the shooters fault for not being able to do this. I do apologize for geting off topic but my god. I'm from Missouri the "show me state" Please drive down from Michigan and show me how in the hell I can hold 1 MOA at any given distance on any given day with any rifle, You can pick the weapon. I DON'T CARE. IT CAN'T BE DONE. To get back on topic. I do have an AR-10T and love the rifle. It will hold 3/4 MOA in the real world. I reload and it helps a lot. I have a quality scope (Night Force 3-15x50 MLR mil mil) and it helps. Can I make the rifle shoot 1/2 moa all day NO. Some autos will, but they are not cheap, and I'm not so sure they will all day. If you must have a weapon that will hold 1/2 moa,I think an auto is going to disapoint. Good luck with your search.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
Best of luck to you.
This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
Best of luck to you.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
The idea that a .5" rifle is 1" at 200, all the way to 5" at 1000 is a blatant diregard for statistical dispersion.
I wonder why all these 1/2 moa "all day long" m'fers aren't shooting LR benchrest with their DPMS's......
The idea that a .5" rifle is 1" at 200, all the way to 5" at 1000 is a blatant diregard for statistical dispersion.
I wonder why all these 1/2 moa "all day long" m'fers aren't shooting LR benchrest with their DPMS's......
G
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Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
The HardRock match's in Alabama, are a 1 an 2 moa scoring course, to 1K yds. If you shoot 2 moa at each range 600-800-900-1K you did good,... no one has ever done 1 across it yet. And to answer your question, yes some of the top trigger pullers this rock has to offer have tried to clean it, Military and Civi alike. Come show us how it's done, we'd be pleased to watch you do it.
It will be cleaned someday but, not by those that only talk about shooting.
The HardRock match's in Alabama, are a 1 an 2 moa scoring course, to 1K yds. If you shoot 2 moa at each range 600-800-900-1K you did good,... no one has ever done 1 across it yet. And to answer your question, yes some of the top trigger pullers this rock has to offer have tried to clean it, Military and Civi alike. Come show us how it's done, we'd be pleased to watch you do it.
It will be cleaned someday but, not by those that only talk about shooting.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
</div></div>
I think you're taking what are clearly rhetorical statements (at least to me), out of context and a bit too literally.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
</div></div>
I think you're taking what are clearly rhetorical statements (at least to me), out of context and a bit too literally.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
This thread has kinda taking on a life of its own. My goal is to do well in few matches. I shot one a few days ago with 30in 280 ai. I do have a detachable box but it was not the ideal setup. Lots of time could have been saved with a few small things. I did horrible in the match but in my defence it was my first. But I saw alot of things that would make me better. One of which was the overall ability to run the rifle efficiently. By that I mean load cycle eject and do it again. I think a gas gun would help this cause greatly. 2nd my 280 will shoot in the 2s 3s and 4s all the time. That makes no difference in a match like I shot. You need a gun that will shoot but, a 1/2 minute gun is plenty, maybe a 1 minute gun will work. The driver is 90%. I saw guys that could send the first as close as possible then spotter called correction and they sent another. I really saw guys with gas guns do well at this if they could communticate with their spotter. I think a .308 is fine for this game. A 260 would be better but there are obvious benifts to the 308 with brass and avalibility being huge for me. Easier to get and load and shoot means more trigger time for me means better shooter. Simple is also better for me. One rig one dope one scope shoot, shoot, shoot more. I am going to shoot as many matches as I can afford. I am truley bit by this bug and I have a need to compete. I love compitition in anything and this game is no different. I just hope I can afford to stay with it. Thoughts?
This thread has kinda taking on a life of its own. My goal is to do well in few matches. I shot one a few days ago with 30in 280 ai. I do have a detachable box but it was not the ideal setup. Lots of time could have been saved with a few small things. I did horrible in the match but in my defence it was my first. But I saw alot of things that would make me better. One of which was the overall ability to run the rifle efficiently. By that I mean load cycle eject and do it again. I think a gas gun would help this cause greatly. 2nd my 280 will shoot in the 2s 3s and 4s all the time. That makes no difference in a match like I shot. You need a gun that will shoot but, a 1/2 minute gun is plenty, maybe a 1 minute gun will work. The driver is 90%. I saw guys that could send the first as close as possible then spotter called correction and they sent another. I really saw guys with gas guns do well at this if they could communticate with their spotter. I think a .308 is fine for this game. A 260 would be better but there are obvious benifts to the 308 with brass and avalibility being huge for me. Easier to get and load and shoot means more trigger time for me means better shooter. Simple is also better for me. One rig one dope one scope shoot, shoot, shoot more. I am going to shoot as many matches as I can afford. I am truley bit by this bug and I have a need to compete. I love compitition in anything and this game is no different. I just hope I can afford to stay with it. Thoughts?
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
</div></div>
I think you're taking what are clearly rhetorical statements (at least to me), out of context and a bit too literally. </div></div>
+1
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BattleAxe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This thread is highly entertaining. I love when people claim they can hold 1/2 moa all day long. I REALLY love it when gas gun owners make this same claim. In fact, the only thing more entertaining is when they claim to do it with a .308.
</div></div>
I think you're taking what are clearly rhetorical statements (at least to me), out of context and a bit too literally. </div></div>
+1
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate's Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what every shooter needs to do. We all need to let DP425 teach us how to hold a 1/2 moa group at any distance in any condition. As he explained in his post it's all the shooters fault for not being able to do this. I do apologize for geting off topic but my god. I'm from Missouri the "show me state" Please drive down from Michigan and show me how in the hell I can hold 1 MOA at any given distance on any given day with any rifle, You can pick the weapon. I DON'T CARE. IT CAN'T BE DONE. To get back on topic. I do have an AR-10T and love the rifle. It will hold 3/4 MOA in the real world. I reload and it helps a lot. I have a quality scope (Night Force 3-15x50 MLR mil mil) and it helps. Can I make the rifle shoot 1/2 moa all day NO. Some autos will, but they are not cheap, and I'm not so sure they will all day. If you must have a weapon that will hold 1/2 moa,I think an auto is going to disapoint. Good luck with your search. </div></div>
You are seriously missing the point- I will leave it at that; if you couldn't get the point from what I've already said, there is no hope for you.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nate's Guns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This is what every shooter needs to do. We all need to let DP425 teach us how to hold a 1/2 moa group at any distance in any condition. As he explained in his post it's all the shooters fault for not being able to do this. I do apologize for geting off topic but my god. I'm from Missouri the "show me state" Please drive down from Michigan and show me how in the hell I can hold 1 MOA at any given distance on any given day with any rifle, You can pick the weapon. I DON'T CARE. IT CAN'T BE DONE. To get back on topic. I do have an AR-10T and love the rifle. It will hold 3/4 MOA in the real world. I reload and it helps a lot. I have a quality scope (Night Force 3-15x50 MLR mil mil) and it helps. Can I make the rifle shoot 1/2 moa all day NO. Some autos will, but they are not cheap, and I'm not so sure they will all day. If you must have a weapon that will hold 1/2 moa,I think an auto is going to disapoint. Good luck with your search. </div></div>
You are seriously missing the point- I will leave it at that; if you couldn't get the point from what I've already said, there is no hope for you.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
ive been shooting for 8 years and mostly departmental bought rifles, but I have never found a gas gun that can hold patterns like the bolt guns. If you do let me know I would like to try it out.
ive been shooting for 8 years and mostly departmental bought rifles, but I have never found a gas gun that can hold patterns like the bolt guns. If you do let me know I would like to try it out.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
FNAR
This is the only picture I have of any shots with the rifle. This picture is no justification for this rifles capabilities but it's all I have on hand.
The only holes made by the FN are around and on the larger lower center shoot n see. Wasn't even shooting for groups. I was sighting the scope in. Can't recall if it was 3 or 4 shots near center. Point being, It shoots. Next time I go out I will shoot for groups and take pix!
FNAR
This is the only picture I have of any shots with the rifle. This picture is no justification for this rifles capabilities but it's all I have on hand.
The only holes made by the FN are around and on the larger lower center shoot n see. Wasn't even shooting for groups. I was sighting the scope in. Can't recall if it was 3 or 4 shots near center. Point being, It shoots. Next time I go out I will shoot for groups and take pix!
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg
[img:center]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg [/img]
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg
[img:center]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg [/img]
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
Well some crazy shit happened today. While selling a model 7 243 youth to guy I ended up in a deal and acquired a RRA LAR 8 Elite Operator. So I guess we are about to see how this goes. I will have it in my hands on tuesday. Guess I will mount a nf 3.5-15 on it and give it whirl.
Well some crazy shit happened today. While selling a model 7 243 youth to guy I ended up in a deal and acquired a RRA LAR 8 Elite Operator. So I guess we are about to see how this goes. I will have it in my hands on tuesday. Guess I will mount a nf 3.5-15 on it and give it whirl.
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg
[im
g:center]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg [/img] </div></div>
Have you fondled one those yet? missed the new rail system at SHOT
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg
[im
g:center]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/5044/gap308.jpg [/img] </div></div>
Have you fondled one those yet? missed the new rail system at SHOT
Re: I want a 1/2 moa 308 where do I get it?
I guess the last week that I've been waiting on a shipping quote was for naught.........nice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well some crazy shit happened today. While selling a model 7 243 youth to guy I ended up in a deal and acquired a RRA LAR 8 Elite Operator. So I guess we are about to see how this goes. I will have it in my hands on tuesday. Guess I will mount a nf 3.5-15 on it and give it whirl. </div></div>
I guess the last week that I've been waiting on a shipping quote was for naught.........nice.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well some crazy shit happened today. While selling a model 7 243 youth to guy I ended up in a deal and acquired a RRA LAR 8 Elite Operator. So I guess we are about to see how this goes. I will have it in my hands on tuesday. Guess I will mount a nf 3.5-15 on it and give it whirl. </div></div>
