I want to shoot .223 at 750-1000 yards.

[Notdylan]

The basics: I'm looking for a bolt gun that will shoot 77gr accurately (let's say 1-1.5 MOA) out to 1000. 1/2 MOA inside 600 would be great as well. I probably will experiment with the heavier bullets one day.

I'd like to hear your recommendations for options under $1500, $2k, and possibly $3k. I'm looking for a 20-24" heavy barrel, non chasis gun. I'm perfectly fine with a blind magazine as well. An M40 type clone would be great.

I've heard great things about the Tikka Varmint and tac models but am not sure how the 1-8 twist would perform at 1k. Same applies to the Remington 700 5r.

Appreciate your input!

 

[BobinNC]

My Build and I spent right around $3.4K complete:

Tikka T3 Stainless Varmint
Manners T4a Stock glass bedded with steel recoil lug
CDi bottom metal
Accurate Mags opened to 2.550"
Ken Farrell 30 MOA base
Atlasworxs Stainless bolt shroud
Atlasworxs Stainless bolt handle
APA Bolt Knob
APA 34mm Rings 0.95" high
Steiner T5Xi 3-15x50mm
Factory trigger set to 2.4 lbs.

Load 25.1 grains Alliant MR2000
80 grain SMK
CCI 450 Primer
Speer 5.56mm Brass
2841 FPS from my 23.6" factory barrel 1-8" twist

It will deliver all your criteria out to 1kyds, except when the wind is blowing hard. But that's just a by product of shooting a .223 at range.....

 

[Dirty D]

There is a really great article by Jerry Teo on shooting the 223 accurately to a mile, do a little Googling and you will find some very useful info.

 

[BoilerUP]

If 1000yd with a mousegun is your desire, 77s are going to leave you desperately wanting a better bullet.

T3x Varmint and 75gr ELD-Ms are that which you seek.

 

[Rthur]

If 1000yd with a mousegun is your desire, 77s are going to leave you desperately wanting a better bullet.

T3x Varmint and 75gr ELD-Ms are that which you seek.

This^^^, there are bullet choices/twist rates that will give better performance.

R

 

[sandwarrior]

If 1000yd with a mousegun is your desire, 77s are going to leave you desperately wanting a better bullet.

T3x Varmint and 75gr ELD-Ms are that which you seek.

Believe it or not, I actually went back to the 68/69's. The extra velocity helps flatten out the trajectory. Wind, no matter what bullet you use in .224 cal. is going to put you all over the place.

I was also liking the Hornady 75 gr. HPBT's. A little sleeker in profile than the 77 SMK/Nos CC's.

As to the rifle, you can go hog wild on price, but the least expensive is a Savage 12FV with at least the 1-9" twist (not sure but I think they also came in 1-12" early on...I could be wrong on that) If you can find them the preferable twist is 1-7" From there you find Mossbergs, Remingtons, Winchesters, Tikka's Different models of each can cost more depending on options. I really like the Tikka Sporter, but they are hard to find in .223. Don't overlook used rifles. Get a heavy barrel of the above named, and shoot it. If it doesn't shoot to your liking then get a GOOD barrel for a few hundred and next paycheck put it on your rifle.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Its not hard, I did a lot of it with a $1200 factory AR. As mentioned already, you need to start with a good bullet. The 75 ELD and the 80 Gr SMK are my first choices. Currently I have two of them, a 20" built on a Remington, and a 22" in my DT SRS. Both of them are 7.7 twist, and Ive shot them both to beyond 1200 in good conditions.

 

[Notdylan]

Hearing that 1-8 Tikka handles the heavy bullets is music to my ears. Are most people opting for the non stainless version?

​​​​​​

 

[Juggerxxx]

Non stainless varmint barrel in my Tikka loves the 75gr ELD out to 1000 yards with minimal wind. Pushes them right at 2900fps with 24.4gr of varget in Lapua brass and BR4 primers.

 

[NewsShooter]

I put together a savage with an F class take off barrel, including the Mcree and PST scope I have about $1800 in it. Shoot one hole at 100 with 77 SMK's and last time I shot at 1K it was 11.1 mils.

 

[NewsShooter]

I put together a savage with an F class take off barrel, including the Mcree and PST scope I have about $1800 in it. Shoots one hole at 100 with 77 SMK's and last time I shot at 1K it was 11.1 mils.

 

[Citius7]

I have a TL3 in a MPA chassis. Only cost me $700 for a shouldered 223 wylde barrel and I have a 223 gun. Cheapest way to have a competition gun and training gun. And a hunting pencil barrel gun. And a f class gun. And a 2 mile single feed gun. They all cost $700. And SAME SCOPE. ULTIMATE CHEAP. just saying.

 

[lennyo3034]

My biggest issue is finding 80 grain ELD in stock anywhere. Considerably cheaper than the other 80 grain options and at 1000 yards the difference in accuracy is negligible in relation to what the wind will do to any .224 bullet.

 

[Skoalman]

75 ELD M in my 22" Brux barrel 1:8 using 23.8 of IMR 8208 XBR/Lapua Brass and CCI BR-4 primers is getting me 2950 fps...stays supersonic past 1150 yards

 

[CharlieNC]

75 Amax out of a 22in 8 twist does it well for me from a Savage I've upgraded a lot over the years. For superb accuracy a number of us are shooting Fclass using a CBI Remage barrel on a Stiller action which you can assemble for under $1600 including a trigger, then add the stock of your choice.

 

[Ayoung1]

Tikka t3x varmint in a manners stock is the route I'm going to shoot out to 1000 yards. It really is the best option with the 1:8 barrel and extremely smooth 2 lug bolt.

 

[EddieE]

Tikka t3x varmint in a manners stock is the route I'm going to shoot out to 1000 yards. It really is the best option with the 1:8 barrel and extremely smooth 2 lug bolt.

Just bought one the other day from "bigjake83" on here. Hope it is all that I have read about it.

 

[Twitchy]

This is what you seek. Build the gun around it.

 

[Sig Marine]

This is what you seek. Build the gun around it.

Hey Twitchy, nice picture, but for those of us not in the know, how about the details. What make and weight bullet is that? What is the OAL?

 

[Bull81]

My biggest issue is finding 80 grain ELD in stock anywhere. Considerably cheaper than the other 80 grain options and at 1000 yards the difference in accuracy is negligible in relation to what the wind will do to any .224 bullet.

I just bought 1000 of them from www.genesears.net at the time showed to have 2700 in stock. Great service I ordered around 3:30 Wednesday they shipped the same day and arrived today.

 

[kengel2]

Do you need to be a dealer to access that gene sears website? Cant do anything without logging in.

 

[Bull81]

Do you need to be a dealer to access that gene sears website? Cant do anything without logging in.

I'm not a dealer in anyway and I ordered from them Wednesday. Not sure what to say about that

 

[Bull81]

Do you need to be a dealer to access that gene sears website? Cant do anything without logging in.

I apologize when you check out that's where it takes you. thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com is where I actually ordered them from. They are currently showing 17 boxes in stock.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I recently used a Savage 11VT .223 to compete at 600yd. The Savage factory 24" barrel has a 1:9" twist, so I was limited to a handload employing the Hornady 75gr HPBT Match bullet. It performed quite well at the distance, and would probably have worked well enough out as much as 100-200yd beyond that. Since can't shoot that far locally, I can't develop reliable handload performance data at the extended distances.

My Granddaughter shot the same competition alongside me using the same handload in a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter, witch employs a 24" 1:8" barrel. I was unable t complete my matches for health reasons, but she finished up with 3-20rd heats through the day, and had no issues. I believe I could have substituted the Hornady 75gr ELD-Match bullet, used it in the Stag, and probably had a combination that competes successfully against the 77gr bullet, possibly for as far as 1000yd, maybe not.

All these conjectures are missing one key point. The .223 is highly constrained when operating at that distance. Any healthy 6.5mm system is going to eat its lunch out there. But if I was going to do it, the Stag and the ELD-Match would be my candidate.

I could also spin on a L-W Savage Varmint drop in barrel with a 24" barrel utilizing either an 8" or 9" twist on the Savage 11VT, and still come up with an implement costing around $1K without the optics. A Mueller 8-32x44, Vortex Rings, and a Weaver 20MOA steel base would probably come in under $400 atop that. For the Stag, I'd skip the base and mount the scope right to the rail with Burris extra tall 30mm Signature 'Zee' Rings and 20MOA worth of offset bushings.

Hornady also sells an 80gr ELD-Match bullet, G1 BC .451, and G7 BC .221, pretty fine stuff. 24.4 gr of Varget is Hornady listed at 2750 fps in a 5.56 chambered 20". I'm going to give a SWAGestimate of the 24' barrel getting nearly 100fps more velocity. Using the Hornady 4DoF calc, I get a 1000yd velocity of 1226fps at 80 degrees and Phoenix's 1200ft altitude, using 30-31MOA over a 200yd zero. My local altitude is 4800fps.

As for $2K and $3K options, I won't spend that kind of money on a rifle when the Savage 11VT and Stag Model 6 perform as well as they do for me.

My L-W 28" 1:8" Savage Varmint 260 Drop-in was my goto F Open 1000yd competitive barrel for several years back in the early-mid 2000's, and has convinced me that for the Savage, their barrels are the way to go.

Greg

 

[Twitchy]

Hey Twitchy, nice picture, but for those of us not in the know, how about the details. What make and weight bullet is that? What is the OAL?

Sorry for the delayed reply.

It's a 90g Berger VLD. OAL is 2.680".

 

[Queequeg]

I recently used a Savage 11VT .223 to compete at 600yd. The Savage factory 24" barrel has a 1:9" twist, so I was limited to a handload employing the Hornady 75gr HPBT Match bullet. It performed quite well at the distance, and would probably have worked well enough out as much as 100-200yd beyond that. Since can't shoot that far locally, I can't develop reliable handload performance data at the extended distances.

My Granddaughter shot the same competition alongside me using the same handload in a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter, witch employs a 24" 1:8" barrel. I was unable t complete my matches for health reasons, but she finished up with 3-20rd heats through the day, and had no issues. I believe I could have substituted the Hornady 75gr ELD-Match bullet, used it in the Stag, and probably had a combination that competes successfully against the 77gr bullet, possibly for as far as 1000yd, maybe not.

All these conjectures are missing one key point. The .223 is highly constrained when operating at that distance. Any healthy 6.5mm system is going to eat its lunch out there. But if I was going to do it, the Stag and the ELD-Match would be my candidate.

I could also spin on a L-W Savage Varmint drop in barrel with a 24" barrel utilizing either an 8" or 9" twist on the Savage 11VT, and still come up with an implement costing around $1K without the optics. A Mueller 8-32x44, Vortex Rings, and a Weaver 20MOA steel base would probably come in under $400 atop that. For the Stag, I'd skip the base and mount the scope right to the rail with Burris extra tall 30mm Signature 'Zee' Rings and 20MOA worth of offset bushings.

Hornady also sells an 80gr ELD-Match bullet, G1 BC .451, and G7 BC .221, pretty fine stuff. 24.4 gr of Varget is Hornady listed at 2750 fps in a 5.56 chambered 20". I'm going to give a SWAGestimate of the 24' barrel getting nearly 100fps more velocity. Using the Hornady 4DoF calc, I get a 1000yd velocity of 1226fps at 80 degrees and Phoenix's 1200ft altitude, using 30-31MOA over a 200yd zero. My local altitude is 4800fps.

As for $2K and $3K options, I won't spend that kind of money on a rifle when the Savage 11VT and Stag Model 6 perform as well as they do for me.

My L-W 28" 1:8" Savage Varmint 260 Drop-in was my goto F Open 1000yd competitive barrel for several years back in the early-mid 2000's, and has convinced me that for the Savage, their barrels are the way to go.

Greg

Excellent write up Greg!

I have a Savage 12 BVS that I have neglected over the last few years, playing with it only occasionally when my daughter would tag along. I have some 75 gr Hornady HPBTs that I haven't gotten around to loading for it yet but the 69 and 70 grain bullets I have loaded got satisfying hits at 600 yards. My daughter's first long range hits were with those laods.

Anyway, I appreciate the detail!

Take care!

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Jeff;

My Savage 11VT (24" 1:9") likes the HDY 75gr HPBT-Match loaded to magazine length in Winchester (and/or PPU) brass, CCI BR-4, and 24.4gr Varget. This is my 6000yd load for the Savage, and also for the Stag Model 6 Super varminter 24" 1:8" that my Granddaughter uses.

Greg

 

[CharlieNC]

The 75 Amax has much higher BC than the BTHP, which will suffer stretching to 1000yd.

 

[Notdylan]

Appreciate the input everyone. At this point I'm planning on going with a Tikka Varmint and shooting the 75 eld. Maybe down the line getting a 6x45 barrel made. I just discovered this little round and I love what I see.

 

[Travis224]

I went with the 75 amaxes as well for my tikka 223. Haven't got any time behind it yet tho.

And i I am in love with the 6x45, it's an amazing round. Not well suited for the truly heavy weight bullets but I really like the 58-75 vmax.

 

[XTR]

Sorry for the delayed reply.

It's a 90g Berger VLD. OAL is 2.680".

If you want to shoot the 223 at long range, and you are serious, then there is really only one answer, and that's it.

I don't shoot the 223 beyond 600 in F-TR compeitition because the 308s running 200s just pummel it on wind drift, but I love running mine out to 600 yards.

The 223 set up correctly running the 90VLD will run with the 185 Juggs out to 1000.

The recipe is as follows:

1. Chamber with Dave Kiff's ISSF 223 reamer
2. See #1 go no further till you do this, or have a similar chamber with at least a .169 freebore
3. use brass of your choice, I've used a bunch of lake city
4. I use Tula 556Ms for primers, others will work well
5. Varget 24.3 gr (plus or minus .3gr will be your load) almost every guy I know shooting them is running 24.5
6. load 90VLDs jammed .010
7. Use a 1:7 twist or faster.

Go shoot. I get 2800FPS from a 28" Lilja 3 groove

This does not work in a mag length setup. You have to single load but it is the absolute best long range 223 setup you are going to find. Anything less is going to be a compromize. Take a few minutes in JBM and run some wind drift calcs for this setup vs. anything else you can concievably load in a 223 and you'll see that at 600 it's way ahead, and beyond that it's so far ahead that it's not even a competition.

(I think it's getting shot out. I've pulled this rifle from match play till I figure out why it's shooting tall. )

 

[BoilerUP]

I get 2750fps with the 90gr VLD with 24.9gr Varget in a 22" 223AI...that has 0.061" freebore and hence feeds from a poly AICS 223 magazine.

Compromise isn't *necessarily* a bad thing...

 

[kengel2]

What magazines is everybody using?

Sent from my LG-H820 using Tapatalk

 

[Citius7]

Mdt magazine. https://www.milehighshooting.com/mdttac-908690-223-poly-magazine-for-the-legacy-aics-chassis-fde/

 

[JMcBurn]

75 ELD M in my 22" Brux barrel 1:8 using 23.8 of IMR 8208 XBR/Lapua Brass and CCI BR-4 primers is getting me 2950 fps...stays supersonic past 1150 yards

What OAL/Length to ogive are you running. Also can you give me an idea of you current jump?

 

[pineoak]

If 1000yd with a mousegun is your desire, 77s are going to leave you desperately wanting a better bullet.

T3x Varmint and 75gr ELD-Ms are that which you seek.

My first thought as well. LOVE the T3x Varmint. Solid factory gun/action. I don't think I'll be changing out the stock either given how well it shoots for me.

 

[EddieE]

My first thought as well. LOVE the T3x Varmint. Solid factory gun/action. I don't think I'll be changing out the stock either given how well it shoots for me.

Shoots well with that plastic stock? I have one that I haven't shot...but I figure the stock is crap and needs to be replaced. Maybe I will luck out.

 

[JMcBurn]

My first thought as well. LOVE the T3x Varmint. Solid factory gun/action. I don't think I'll be changing out the stock either given how well it shoots for me.

Good to hear. I have one at my FFL right now. Cant wait to get home to shoot it.

 

[pineoak]

I still need to install the YoDave trigger spring I bought ages ago... with a Razor Gen2 on top, Ultra 7 in front, and a basic Atlas PSR under it... I am very very happy for 80%+ of my bolt gun shooting with it straight from the factory. It shoots even cheap .223 well. I plan on shooting this gun until I shoot out the barrel before getting a new stock.

 

[JMcBurn]

I still need to install the YoDave trigger spring I bought ages ago... with a Razor Gen2 on top, Ultra 7 in front, and a basic Atlas PSR under it... I am very very happy for 80%+ of my bolt gun shooting with it straight from the factory. It shoots even cheap .223 well. I plan on shooting this gun until I shoot out the barrel before getting a new stock.

Who did you have thread it?

 

[Juggerxxx]

Shoots well with that plastic stock? I have one that I haven't shot...but I figure the stock is crap and needs to be replaced. Maybe I will luck out.

My T3X Varmint shot very well with the factory stock and not much difference in accuracy (from the rifle) after adding the XLR Carbon chassis until the shooter (me) became super comfortable behind the new chassis. I have a little over 3000 rounds on it this year and it still shoots amazing. Incase you change your mind on the chassis

 

[Supersubes]

Is there a reason you want to use the 77 specifically? I shoot them a bunch out of my 20" 8 twist, but they transition before reaching 1k. From 750 and in though, its accurate as hell. If pushing it longer was more of a priority for me, id switch bullets to the hornady eld or similar.

 

[Rerun7]

Shooting 1000 with a .223 is like saying I want to shoot .308 at 1500. It can be done but.... why?

Whats the reason for .223 and 77gr bullets?

 

[danr]

Why? Just because you can, man. Doing it with a .223 is just fun and for me it's just about enjoying the impact. I used to do it out to 900 yds years back with a Rem Police .223 1/9 twist pushing 75 Hornadys. Used to get good upper torso hits on a full size steel IPSC target. It was fun to do, you know, just enjoying shooting.

 

[Juggerxxx]

1000 yards with a 223 is a good challenge that help develop skills which makes shooting larger calibers easier.

 

[EddieE]

My T3X Varmint shot very well with the factory stock and not much difference in accuracy (from the rifle) after adding the XLR Carbon chassis until the shooter (me) became super comfortable behind the new chassis. I have a little over 3000 rounds on it this year and it still shoots amazing. Incase you change your mind on the chassis

Gonna wait to see what KRG has in the works with their new offering. But, I need to get a a baseline of the gun in the factory stock. Working on getting a scope now. Will probably shoot it in the fall.

 

[pineoak]

Who did you have thread it?

Joel Pendergraft, a very well respected smith in NC. He's threaded a few barrels for me along with some other small jobs and requests. I've never had an issue with his work and would recommend him easily.

 

[Rerun7]

Why? Just because you can, man. Doing it with a .223 is just fun and for me it's just about enjoying the impact. I used to do it out to 900 yds years back with a Rem Police .223 1/9 twist pushing 75 Hornadys. Used to get good upper torso hits on a full size steel IPSC target. It was fun to do, you know, just enjoying shooting.

Fair enough! Just because it's fun is a legitimate reason for doing lots of things IMO.

 

[Skoalman]

What OAL/Length to ogive are you running. Also can you give me an idea of you current jump?

1.883 to the ogive...that gets me 0.020 off the lands