If PRS had a "Walleye fishing tournament cheating scandal" what would it be?

[hlee]

All shooting games are the same in one regard. Lots of standing around and not much trigger time. 8 stage local PRS match. 2 minute par time. Start at 8. Done around 3. 7 hrs on the range for 16 minutes of shooting.

5k run and gun. 7 stages. 3 minute par time. Unlimited round count per stage. Takes about 4 hrs b/c of back ups at the stage starts.

Sporting clays. 10-13 stages. Generally 100 rounds total. About a 3 hrs if there aren’t too many Bach ups. Local events can be all over the place on pace. European rotation is better in this regard.

But, it’s not just shooting sports. Football ==> 8 sec per play. 40 sec play clock. So 40 of every 48 seconds is just standing around. That’s 10 minutes of action in a 1 hr game, spread over 3-4 hrs.

 

[M4orturnate]

This was my first full season shooting prs. In that time ive shot maybe 12 or so club matches 2 2days (going to #3 in Georgia next week) and ro'd a ag qualifier. Ive been absolutely blown away with how awesome the community is. Shooters constantly help each other and hold one another accountable. It also seems all the complaining comes from people that don't shoot prs. Im glad to be a part of it and hopefully will be for years to come.

 

[mikeshaw2]

This was my first full season shooting prs. In that time ive shot maybe 12 or so club matches 2 2days (going to #3 in Georgia next week) and ro'd a ag qualifier. Ive been absolutely blown away with how awesome the community is. Shooters constantly help each other and hold one another accountable. It also seems all the complaining comes from people that don't shoot prs. Im glad to be a part of it and hopefully will be for years to come.

I'm still on the left side of the bell curve and have found the same thing. I'm shooting a few different flavors of PRS (gas gun, .22, centerfire) to get better at building positions, etc faster. I've seen some so-so ROs, but not one obviously cheating

M

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Before you jump my shit, I have shot PRS matches, not many but a few. I am getting a bit too old to shoot them well or often.

Its been a long road for me. Decades ago, our son was a nationally ranked water skier. I participated in tournaments but found my nich in officiating. I’ve seen bad calls made for good kids, that had national implications. Giving a break for a newby may be fine, but a young man who is going for a national championship and his rank matters, well not so much, fine. On top of crappy calls, buddies always give buddies choice positions. (While others get left on the far side of the ski lake, in the sun all day). Does any of this sound familiar?

Always liked to shoot and when time and money made it available, I got into handgun silhouette. It was a great sport, lots of fun and in my day I was pretty good. Good enough that I was recognized far and wide. Not great, but good. I became a match director and did my best to help shooters do good, within the absolute boundaries of the rules. But rules are rules. Without them there is no match, no point. I saw cheating in just about every point. And the central office made every effort to muck things up. Mucked em up to the point that entire clubs left the organization. Talk about ”shooting” yourself.

Interesting though, most shooting was self scored and never once did I see anyone bloat their scores. Coaching is allowed so that was never an issue. It actually cost me a target. In Jackson, Mississippi, I turned a half scale turkey sideways. At 150 meters, looking through a 7X handgun scope it was invisible. I would have scored it a hit. My spotter (My Brenda no less) saw what happened through the much more powerful spotting scope. Half scale turkeys at 150 meters are very small.

The point of all this discourse? Its not just PRS, its pretty much everywhere. So, don’t rain on RO’s or MD’s. They have a plenty hard enough job to do. There are good ones and there are not quite so good ones. However, if they are doing their best, to be fair and accurate, Give them Your Best.

 

[M4orturnate]

I'm still on the left side of the bell curve and have found the same thing. I'm shooting a few different flavors of PRS (gas gun, .22, centerfire) to get better at building positions, etc faster. I've seen some so-so ROs, but not one obviously cheating

M

I see way more lax rules in rimfire wich i really enjoy and a little with one day matches but its usually from the guys that are top tier competitors and arent really serious about club level matches.

 

[hlee]

I see way more lax rules in rimfire wich i really enjoy and a little with one day matches but its usually from the guys that are top tier competitors and arent really serious about club level matches.

To some extent extent, more lax rules makes the event more approachable. For example, at the local 22 match, the MD allows discretion for par times for new shooters.

 

[Yoteski]

I've seen cheating ROing at national level matches, and when the shooter was called out, the MD pretty much brushed it under the rug.

 

[Rexwagon]

I've seen cheating ROing at national level matches, and when the shooter was called out, the MD pretty much brushed it under the rug.
View attachment 7973468

Post names then. When. Where. Who. Post it up.

 

[Yoteski]

Post names then. When. Where. Who. Post it up.

Why? What is possibly gained? The folks in charge made their decision. My time and funds just go elsewhere.

 

[kthomas]

Why? What is possibly gained? The folks in charge made their decision. My time and funds just go elsewhere.

I agree.

If the people in charge are aware of the issues and aren't willing to do anything about it, what do you gain by stirring up drama on a forum? It's not going to get fixed here.

I think everyone is aware of the issues of the PRS organization (including the organization as well), but if they don't care to fix them there's not much we can do about it here except to spend our money elsewhere.

 

[cas6969]

Why? What is possibly gained? The folks in charge made their decision. My time and funds just go elsewhere.

So others could do the same. Kinda a shitty you're willing to let everyone else get cheated.

 

[Yoteski]

So others could do the same. Kinda a shitty you're willing to let everyone else get cheated.

Not sure what else could have been done. Dragging people's names around in an online forum wouldn't help anything. It wasn't the point of my post.

 

[kthomas]

So others could do the same. Kinda a shitty you're willing to let everyone else get cheated.

If the organization is aware of the issues, it's on them to fix it.

 

[cas6969]

But since you post this, I would assume they haven't.

If Bob cheats and "X" club doesn't care, I'd probably want to avoid club "X"
But I know I'd want to avoid Bob at any club/match he happened to be shooting in.

Just making conversation, I couldn't give two shits.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Slipping a 5 pound rock into a fellow competitors pack and watch them unknowingly carry it around all day.
Running 115VDLs @3,400fps

 

[JustSendit]

Slipping a 5 pound rock into a fellow competitors pack and watch them unknowingly carry it around all day.

Dude that’s just a classic trick. But 5lbs is a little light I’d look for at least a 10!

 

[Rob01]

Yeah that's just good fun and busting friend's balls. Not cheating. But today most with their baby carts wouldn't feel it anyways. LOL

Luckily today with the barricade benchrest style matches most are dropping velocity for less recoil instead of upping it for flatter trajectory like matches a decade or so ago so doubt you will see anyone trying to run over 3200fps.

 

[Rexwagon]

Why? What is possibly gained? The folks in charge made their decision. My time and funds just go elsewhere.

If no one names anyone in these accusations, it all seems pretty fake and jaded stories just to gaslight each other into bad opinions and points of view. But everyone has their own story and victimhood these days.

 

[On_target68]

This might not be in the same context, but my first PRS match was going typically bad and when I went two stages with no hits my squad gave me corrections to hit during my course of fire. RSO didn't have an issue, but honestly the talk was more checking out what people ran versus adjustments and holds, plus our matches run fast so most of time we don't even have time to chat.

 

[MDof2]

This might not be in the same context, but my first PRS match was going typically bad and when I went two stages with no hits my squad gave me corrections to hit during my course of fire. RSO didn't have an issue, but honestly the talk was more checking out what people ran versus adjustments and holds, plus our matches run fast so most of time we don't even have time to chat.

If you're a new shooter, or shooting less than 60% of the top shooter based on your prior matches you are allowed on the clock corrections.
(I'm paraphrasing through a migraine from memory, so don't take me to task if I'm wrong on that)

 

[Rob01]

First match it's fine to give a little help on the clock. That's part of helping people get into and stay in the sport. Never saw any percentages of past matches used to figure it out though as that would be tough to figure or prove depending on person and lead itself to some abuses.

 

[Eurodriver]

The windcalling is such a small part of the game. You could literally call corrections for every shooter and most still wouldnt clean any stages

Yeah. I remember showing up to my first match in south FL about 5 years ago and placed in the top 1/3 lol. And I used a .223 gas gun…

Besides the USMC, I had no formal rifle training.

Now if I don’t get top 10 at a regional qualifier it’s because I didn’t go.

PRS shooters as a whole just aren’t very good until you get to national matches with sponsored shooters who shoot 10,000 rounds a year. Then you drop to #80 of 85 and it’s an eye opener lol

 

[MDof2]

First match it's fine to give a little help on the clock. That's part of helping people get into and stay in the sport. Never saw any percentages of past matches used to figure it out though as that would be tough to figure or prove depending on person and lead itself to some abuses.

Agreed. It would be a mess to manage if it came down to it and there's always some asshole who will try and angle shoot it, but I think the spirit of the rule was essentially if the shooter was clearly new and was struggling, then give him a hand to make it a worthwhile day for them.

Dug up what I was trying to paraphrase:
Page 5. Section 3.2.10

https://prs-website-uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/public/prs_rules.pdf

 

[M4orturnate]

Yeah. I remember showing up to my first match in south FL about 5 years ago and placed in the top 1/3 lol. And I used a .223 gas gun…

Besides the USMC, I had no formal rifle training.

Now if I don’t get top 10 at a regional qualifier it’s because I didn’t go.

PRS shooters as a whole just aren’t very good until you get to national matches with sponsored shooters who shoot 10,000 rounds a year. Then you drop to #80 of 85 and it’s an eye opener lol

Idk man. My region has some serious talent. At our finale we had a dude only miss 1 shot out of 99 possible and 2 that tied with 96 i think. Theres probably 15 to 20 guys any given match that could win

 

[hlee]

Idk man. My region has some serious talent. At our finale we had a dude only miss 1 shot out of 99 possible and 2 that tied with 96 i think. Theres probably 15 to 20 guys any given match that could win

Definitely regional. The ‘local match’ I was shooting was populated by many at the top of the PRS standings.

 

[Taylorbok]

I shot my first PRS match this summer. I caught my self giving corrections to other shooters, force of habit when you are just shooting for fun with buddies. It was just a fun match anyways so no one seemed to care. I got better by the end of the day.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I understand the frustration, but if you dont learn to make your own wind calls how do you expect to get better. Discuss it after the stage or practice.

I remeber a guy getting a wind call before his time to shoot and he zeroed a stage due to the wind shift. He blamed the other guy instead of learning to watch what the wind is doing.

 

[UKDslayer]

Seen it happen back in mid 2000s. Uncapped though. Has happened to elevation too. Not cool.

I do remember those days. How about laser from the parking lots? Wind flag man... (yes, I remember his name but won't say it).

 

[Rob01]

Yup remember that too.

 

[Chuggles]

Arbitration was a big thing, probably already mentioned. Before Ohio turned into a dead zone for PRS I witnessed that type of shit on a stage he got one or two on claiming a high hit number. Never bought a PRS membership since that. Luckily the MD consulted with the RO who is a great shooter as well and the shooter failed at his cheating. Stage only arbitration change helps but I’m already done,