If the government goes after our semi rifles...

[Adrenalist]

Hey fellas,

I’ve been thinking about this as the pistol brace fiasco rages. The pistol brace thing doesn’t affect me, but I’m sure as our government takes baby steps in overreach, eventually they are going to mandate things that do.

When that time comes, I would feel better knowing that I made it more difficult for them in a legal manner, if possible, in order to protect my hobby, my passion, my investments.

All of us have guns we own personally, and I think quite a few of us have NFA Trusts. And I know generational farmers and ranchers put their land in trusts to protect their land from the government. So what if we made a secondary firearm trust, not affiliated with our NFA trust, to put our normal, legal guns in?

Would that possibly benefit us, or would it be a wasted measure?

 

[pmclaine]

Yes your legal document will protect you from illegal unjust laws.

 

[johnnycat]

If the Constitution and Bill of Rights don't stop them, do you really think a Trust will? And if we stand by as the Constitution and 2nd Amendment are trampled, are we suddenly going to rise up and demand the government recognizes our Trusts?

 

[hafejd30]

If they come for your guns the battle for them will not be won by who has more paperwork....

 

[diverdon]

Next Tuesday will tell wether tyranny has arrived. I fear a squeeker that could go either way.

 

[Jackwagon]

Make no mistake, the left will not stop their assault. Now, it is with words and rhetoric. We can attempt to hold the line with the same. Next week will reveal where we stand as a country and as a people locked in an ideological war with this “Marxist Revolution”.

Ask yourself this question, what phase of war are we currently experiencing?
Shape
Deter
Seize initiative
Dominate
Stabilize
Enable civil authority

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Yes your legal document will protect you from illegal unjust laws.

The pen is only mightier than the sword when the wielder of the pen has a sword of his own to back it up...

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Make no mistake, the left will not stop their assault. Now, it is with words and rhetoric. We can attempt to hold the line with the same. Next week will reveal where we stand as a country and as a people locked in an ideological war with this “Marxist Revolution”.

Ask yourself this question, what phase of war are we currently experiencing?
Shape
Deter
Seize initiative
Dominate
Stabilize
Enable civil authority

Good list, though one phase is missing from it... Retribution... When ordinary and hardworking masses who had quietly taken all of the bullshit finally had their last strings of sanity and tolerance snapped, and traitors, terrorist scum, and other criminals begin to be found everywhere with missing limbs and heads and their own genitalia sewed to their dead faces...

 

[brianf]

I’ll just watch this one....

One a thread yesterday which was very similar and ruffled to many feathers ...was deleted lol

 

[Rthur]

"If"...
I seem to remember a ban on said.

R

 

[theLBC]

might be better to own a boat.

plausible deniability.

 

[Charger442]

I’ll just watch this one....

One a thread yesterday which was very similar and ruffled to many feathers ...was deleted lol

we know. you're the head counselor at Camp Gun Compromise.

 

[Charger442]

Hey fellas,

I’ve been thinking about this as the pistol brace fiasco rages. The pistol brace thing doesn’t affect me, but I’m sure as our government takes baby steps in overreach, eventually they are going to mandate things that do.

When that time comes, I would feel better knowing that I made it more difficult for them in a legal manner, if possible, in order to protect my hobby, my passion, my investments.

All of us have guns we own personally, and I think quite a few of us have NFA Trusts. And I know generational farmers and ranchers put their land in trusts to protect their land from the government. So what if we made a secondary firearm trust, not affiliated with our NFA trust, to put our normal, legal guns in?

Would that possibly benefit us, or would it be a wasted measure?

There is nothing magical about an NFA trust. it MAY have specific language regarding the NFA but its not really any different than any other trust. i can put whatever i want into my NFA trust, it doesnt have to be firearms. it could be gold, silver, coins, cars, etc. Non-NFA guns are no different.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

Besides the fear of losing semis the Joe Biden Tax plan is going to be a killer. I will get jacked up to a higher rate just because of the SSI part of his tax plan and that I own my company. Literally makes me think about moving to Ireland to escape taxes, think about that.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Here is a question....

What is everyone doing to stop it?
Because clearly even IF the Government does not come for them per say...the ATF is making it crystal clear they are coming for things.

For sake of conversation lets go ahead and realize we all know to VOTE so lets have discussion of what "else" is everyone doing to stop things from progressing in regards to .gov or atf?
Tantrums on SH is not going to stop them.

Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of protest images at BATFE field offices?
Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of letters being sent certified mail to local, State and Federal politicians?

Everyone been typing LGOWI for a couple years now...well it appears the BATFE is getting on with it.

No this is not a trolling post. It is an actual legit question to see what members are doing in their respective areas to actually STOP the progression.
I intend to meet with my local Sherriff, Police Chief, Mayor and District Attorney this week, along with requesting a meeting from my local ATF IO liaison.
Will that change anything? More than likely not. So that is why I am asking what everyone else is doing that may actually stop things.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Wilderness]

I think a trust or any paper trail would only delay the inevitable. I'm sure a good amount of hardware on the street will just go "missing" or be reported stolen.

 

[Blue Sky Country]

Hi,

Here is a question....

What is everyone doing to stop it?
Because clearly even IF the Government does not come for them per say...the ATF is making it crystal clear they are coming for things.

For sake of conversation lets go ahead and realize we all know to VOTE so lets have discussion of what "else" is everyone doing to stop things from progressing in regards to .gov or atf?
Tantrums on SH is not going to stop them.

Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of protest images at BATFE field offices?
Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of letters being sent certified mail to local, State and Federal politicians?

Everyone been typing LGOWI for a couple years now...well it appears the BATFE is getting on with it.

No this is not a trolling post. It is an actual legit question to see what members are doing in their respective areas to actually STOP the progression.
I intend to meet with my local Sherriff, Police Chief, Mayor and District Attorney this week, along with requesting a meeting from my local ATF IO liaison.
Will that change anything? More than likely not. So that is why I am asking what everyone else is doing that may actually stop things.

Sincerely,
Theis

This right here...

For me, it had not just been voting, but also letters and phone calls to elected reps who care about the 2A to alert them of any new sneaky attacks against gun rights so they are informed and will vote accordingly. Missing links in the communication chain is how the antigunners win victories over us. If portions of our community are not up to date on the latest developments, how will we be able to mount a unified voice both in support or criticism of things?

 

[W54/XM-388]

For sake of conversation lets go ahead and realize we all know to VOTE so lets have discussion of what "else" is everyone doing to stop things from progressing in regards to .gov or atf?
Tantrums on SH is not going to stop them.

Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of protest images at BATFE field offices?
Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of letters being sent certified mail to local, State and Federal politicians?

I may be incorrect, but I seem to remember the ATF wanted to "reclassify" standard green tip 5.56 ammo not long ago and since it was very popular target ammunition, a large number of people made sure to contact their elected representatives to clearly express their opposition to this overreach.
As I recall, enough political pressure came to bear that the ATF quietly dropped it.

What I might suggest is IF the Republicans hold a majority in the house or senate after the 2020 elections, then that would be the time to really let them know that IF they would like to keep their seats for the 2022 mid terms..... We'd like to see you actually step up and you know do what your constituents want and what you promised... or we could just have "voter apathy" and well.... enjoy being out in 2022

 

[Mwalex]

I have a trust and accepted a long time ago that the trust does not offer any kind of protection from the ATF. If anything a trust is a paper trail to who owns the "most dangerous" bits and pieces.

 

[diverdon]

Hi,

Here is a question....

What is everyone doing to stop it?
Because clearly even IF the Government does not come for them per say...the ATF is making it crystal clear they are coming for things.

For sake of conversation lets go ahead and realize we all know to VOTE so lets have discussion of what "else" is everyone doing to stop things from progressing in regards to .gov or atf?
Tantrums on SH is not going to stop them.

Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of protest images at BATFE field offices?
Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of letters being sent certified mail to local, State and Federal politicians?

Everyone been typing LGOWI for a couple years now...well it appears the BATFE is getting on with it.

No this is not a trolling post. It is an actual legit question to see what members are doing in their respective areas to actually STOP the progression.
I intend to meet with my local Sherriff, Police Chief, Mayor and District Attorney this week, along with requesting a meeting from my local ATF IO liaison.
Will that change anything? More than likely not. So that is why I am asking what everyone else is doing that may actually stop things.

Sincerely,
Theis

This is an outstanding question. One of the true reasons the Democtats want to take guns in voter data. No group more strongly votes Republican than gunowners.

Democrats believe that if they get rid of the guns then those former gun owners (or their children) will split in a way that favores them.

I've tried to introduce shooting and gun ownership to responsible children and adults. It's not a lot, but it makes more sense to me than planing a civil war.

 

[ChadChadson]

Hey fellas,

I’ve been thinking about this as the pistol brace fiasco rages. The pistol brace thing doesn’t affect me, but I’m sure as our government takes baby steps in overreach, eventually they are going to mandate things that do.

When that time comes, I would feel better knowing that I made it more difficult for them in a legal manner, if possible, in order to protect my hobby, my passion, my investments.

All of us have guns we own personally, and I think quite a few of us have NFA Trusts. And I know generational farmers and ranchers put their land in trusts to protect their land from the government. So what if we made a secondary firearm trust, not affiliated with our NFA trust, to put our normal, legal guns in?

Would that possibly benefit us, or would it be a wasted measure?

Honestly that’s not a bad idea. Would need to talk with a good lawyer, but I would imagine that if you can somehow have them be owned by a foreign shell corporation’s US based LLC then the shareholders (YOU) would be shielded from liability/ imprisonment. Only a $500/hr lawyer would have the answer to your question though.

EDIT: To clarify, corporations have the same rights (if not more) than individuals. ‘They’ are guilty of crimes, as evidenced by CEOs not being charged for crimes that their corporations committed (especially after 2008). Having foreign shell corps with their own legal protections (and extraditions/privacy rights) own a state-side company with limited liability allows for US based shareholders to own a company as a ‘ghost’, in that it is difficult for the US government to get international cooperation for crimes, and even if they did, it is very difficult to prove that the owner of an international company that owns an LLC is at fault for the actions of ‘the company’ which may have ‘foreign employees not able to be subpoena’d’.

 

[Redmanss]

Your trust will be as much of a safety net as a domestic violence protection order. Neither wife beaters nor communists care about laws.

 

[BLEE]

If the government bans semi-auto rifles, folks will either roll over, or fight back. Some will fight, via the legal system, which is rigged. I've seen this first hand. Some will fight for blood. It's a very slippery slope and we are teetering on the edge. The USA has drifted so far off course, like a large ship, that's lost its engines and it's difficult to correct. We are reaping what we sowed in the Clinton years. We allowed the white trash that are the Clintons, to erode our moral fabric. The damage done by the Clintons, the godless, anything goes mentality, allowed the seeds of anti-Americanism to take root, during the Obama years. Those seeds have grown into choking weeds and threaten to overun the beautiful lush, green fields of liberty, that we love. If the government comes after the guns, it will likely flush the entire Bill of Rights, and America will be thrust into an era of cold, or possibly hot civil war. I dare to say, we are already in a cold civil war.

 

[Jackwagon]

Hi,

Here is a question....

What is everyone doing to stop it?
Because clearly even IF the Government does not come for them per say...the ATF is making it crystal clear they are coming for things.

For sake of conversation lets go ahead and realize we all know to VOTE so lets have discussion of what "else" is everyone doing to stop things from progressing in regards to .gov or atf?
Tantrums on SH is not going to stop them.

Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of protest images at BATFE field offices?
Should the "Whats your view" thread be full of letters being sent certified mail to local, State and Federal politicians?

Everyone been typing LGOWI for a couple years now...well it appears the BATFE is getting on with it.

No this is not a trolling post. It is an actual legit question to see what members are doing in their respective areas to actually STOP the progression.
I intend to meet with my local Sherriff, Police Chief, Mayor and District Attorney this week, along with requesting a meeting from my local ATF IO liaison.
Will that change anything? More than likely not. So that is why I am asking what everyone else is doing that may actually stop things.

Sincerely,
Theis

Great post.
I’ve long felt that it was the responsibility of gun guys, like those of us here, to work to educate people about our passion for guns. I work to find people, especially women that have a negative viewpoint on firearms and confront them as to why? I enjoy selling them on firearms. Talk about the history of the country, history of the particular manufacturer, or even model. Ease them into if needed, but get them to try it. A lot of indoor ranges even have date night now. My ex-wife went from a raging liberal to a CCW Trump voter. My current girl friend had never fired a shot. Our first date was at a gun range. She was a Liberal RBG worshipper. The second time at the range she wore a RBG t shirt. We got plenty of weird looks, but everyone treated her with respect and was very helpful. She later told me that she thought that all the gun people were raging assholes that just want to go to war. She then told me that she was ashamed that she felt that way. A bunch of people that we’d never met helped me to prove her lifelong friends wrong about “gun guys” (and gals). Now she’s down to go to the range anytime. Even more importantly, guess who she voted for on Monday?

 

[Do-nothing]

The government and leftest (one in the same) are going to do what they are going to do. No secret anymore. I'm frightened and sad. Unless they back off, I see no real chance of avoiding a blood-bath. The left is not going to stop. History shows that tyrants are only stopped when they and their cause are destroyed.

 

[BLEE]

Maybe, the newly tilted SCOTUS will do its part to counter the tyranny, if Biden is elected, or Congress is hell-bent, left after November 3.

 

[THEIS]

Honestly that’s not a bad idea. Would need to talk with a good lawyer, but I would imagine that if you can somehow have them be owned by a foreign shell corporation’s US based LLC then the shareholders (YOU) would be shielded from liability/ imprisonment. Only a $500/hr lawyer would have the answer to your question though.

EDIT: To clarify, corporations have the same rights (if not more) than individuals. ‘They’ are guilty of crimes, as evidenced by CEOs not being charged for crimes that their corporations committed (especially after 2008). Having foreign shell corps with their own legal protections (and extraditions/privacy rights) own a state-side company with limited liability allows for US based shareholders to own a company as a ‘ghost’, in that it is difficult for the US government to get international cooperation for crimes, and even if they did, it is very difficult to prove that the owner of an international company that owns an LLC is at fault for the actions of ‘the company’ which may have ‘foreign employees not able to be subpoena’d’.

Hi,

Good luck on getting through all the legalities, licenses, restrictions, etc etc of a foreign company being able to own firearms that are located in the USA. Because for the USA based division of the company to be protected; the foreign company would have to be listed on all the Trust documents and such. Which then immediately make everything the USA based division has in its' possession to be foreign owned.

Department of Commerce is not going to approve the foreign "ownership" of those firearms to a "shell" corporation.
Department of Treasury will eat that one up too.
O and the Patriot Act makes it a simple breeze for any USA Gov entity to grab anyone or anything in regards to International cooperation.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[brianf]

how about we...naaah

LOLOL

semi inside joke

 

[acudaowner]

why worry about things your really can't control ? Be as prepared as you can be make arrangements before you need to so if something happens you don't have to sweat it as much . Vote , march make you voice heard , get active you know the pro communist /snowflakes are . Trust in god all others must pay cash lol . and even if the election goes well for the republicans stay on there asses ride them hard . Keep them working for you the people . and keep on your kids education take part in it so you know exactly what those socialist are teaching them and ride them as well use your rights to know what your children are being shoveled . push back when socialism shows its head where ever it pops up stomp it out quick .

 

[Greg Langelius *]

With respect, the Supreme Court is not going to be even mildly effective at constraining leftist gun grabs. In order for it to deal with the problem, the issue will need to take the form of a legal case, and have already been adjudicated by lower courts before SCOTUS can even open the documents and read them. Nothing outside the trial records could be admissible. The court cannot pick issues out of the air and rule on them. Those of us who actually listened to to ACB's testimony already know this.

That would happen literally years after this election. Either way this election goes down; the Swamp will still rise and foment a communist revolution. You can't count on your neighbors, you can't count on any armed forces under government orders, and you can't count on people you're not already in contact with to come and bail you out.

Most likely, by the time that case should be in the SCOTUS, there won't be a SCOTUS. This is the left's primary game plan.

When the black flag flies; you and I are on our own, just precisely the way the FF's were in 1775. They constituted 3% of the non-native souls within the 13 colonies. They fought a war of attrition in a quagmire inhabited by a supermajority of their enemies, backstabber neighbors, and were about to lose conclusively when Ben Franklin was finally able to enlist the French Military after years of negotiations.

Like every war before or since, the revolutionaries expected to be back home by Christmas. They were all dead wrong.

It will come, and it will be just as the FF's found out to true.

I'm not trying to discourage any of us. I think it must and will happen. IMHO, I'll not be there at the end, whatever end, and not for trying.

But such conflicts are not fought in the sure and certain conviction that there will be a victory. They are fought in the absolute, deep as the soul conviction that it is better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees, whatever the personal cost; for the benefit of our descendants. The shot heard round the world will not be fired by us, and it will spread clear around the world. It must. The important shot will be the last one.

It's coming. Be ready.

Greg

 

[vinniedelpino]

Besides the fear of losing semis the Joe Biden Tax plan is going to be a killer. I will get jacked up to a higher rate just because of the SSI part of his tax plan and that I own my company. Literally makes me think about moving to Ireland to escape taxes, think about that.

You'll be alright either way. It's the W2 guys that are going to take the hit.

Social Security only applies to "earned" income. If you make enough to be worried about additional FICA taxes under Joe's plan, you should probably have made an election to be taxed as either an S or C corp by this point. You essentially get to pick how your income is allocated between salary and distribution of profits/dividends. See link below:

Sleepy Joe does it and you can too.

Joe Biden Exploited S-Corporation Loophole to Avoid Payroll Tax

Joe Biden is accused of using a series of tax code loopholes to avoid paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes over the years.

www.breitbart.com

For those of you with massive w2s, especially those of us lucky enough to get paid with stock based compensation.... you're fucked. My condolences.

 

[bigbuckslayer3]

Not gonna lie this election worries me more than any other!

 

[Adrenalist]

Guys,

Really want to thank you for taking the time to share your views. I know not to waste my time now on a trust. A lot of truth was spoken. I can only hope that our election goes the way that individual rights don’t get infringed upon.

With a profound respect for all your views, I sincerely extend my gratitude.

 

[hermosabeach]

 

[Aries256]

Lead puts more dread than paper

 

[rustyinbend]

Hey fellas,

I’ve been thinking about this as the pistol brace fiasco rages. The pistol brace thing doesn’t affect me, but I’m sure as our government takes baby steps in overreach, eventually they are going to mandate things that do.

When that time comes, I would feel better knowing that I made it more difficult for them in a legal manner, if possible, in order to protect my hobby, my passion, my investments.

All of us have guns we own personally, and I think quite a few of us have NFA Trusts. And I know generational farmers and ranchers put their land in trusts to protect their land from the government. So what if we made a secondary firearm trust, not affiliated with our NFA trust, to put our normal, legal guns in?

Would that possibly benefit us, or would it be a wasted measure?

Doing a few things ...

(1) Getting eFiled to turn all my pistol-braced items into SBR's ... expensive at $200/ea, but totally removes the argument about whether they're legal or not.

(2) Accumulating proof of ownership date for all AR's ... to ensure I can justify grandfathering them in case a ban is invoked and it has a grandfather clause. (A photo of the serial number (readable) with a viewable date from a local newspaper banner is good for this.)

(3) Emailing every state and national member of congress once a week or so to let them know how I feel about 2nd Amendment protections.

Not comprehensive, but it's what I'm doing so far. Oregon is a very firearms-friendly state, irrespective of it's heavy Democratic political stance. I'd like to think Oregon is a model of how a "blue" state can peacefully coexist with 2nd Amendment protections. Every time the hard-left-leaners have tried to pass a restrictive firearms law, it's failed with all the Republicans and a high percentage of the Democrats voting against it. I'm hopeful that will continue ... and hopeful that the Supreme Court continues to rule in favor of the States' jurisdictional sovereignty to manage gun-laws. We shall see ... I predict rocky paths ahead.

 

[Jgault]

The only way this occurs is if the democrats get rid of the filibuster in the senate, and if that happens we instantly become a banana republic. The only thing that has kept our country as the worlds default currency is its stability, which was due to the laws staying relatively stable. Once the court is packed the first time and just about every law we have is changed on the whim of 51 to 49 votes investment in the United States will plummet, money always goes where it is treated well. While the 2nd amendment is obviously a major concern of mine it’s a means to an end, in the history of mankind I can’t recall a country with a well armed populace being converted to communism, so they have to get rid of guns for their end game. I doubt they have the stomach to go door to door for firearms at least at first, it’s much easier for liberals to just use the tax code. They wanted to curb smoking so tax cigarettes at $5 a pack, I’m guessing they will take the same approach with ammunition.

 

[FishinGuns]

Maybe I don’t understand things, but Donald Trump (“potentially” Joe “No Substance” Biden) doesn’t make any laws. Isn’t what we should be worried about in terms of gun legislation is the House and Senate right friggen now?

 

[Soulezoo]

The only way this occurs is if the democrats get rid of the filibuster in the senate, and if that happens we instantly become a banana republic. The only thing that has kept our country as the worlds default currency is its stability, which was due to the laws staying relatively stable. Once the court is packed the first time and just about every law we have is changed on the whim of 51 to 49 votes investment in the United States will plummet, money always goes where it is treated well. While the 2nd amendment is obviously a major concern of mine it’s a means to an end, in the history of mankind I can’t recall a country with a well armed populace being converted to communism, so they have to get rid of guns for their end game. I doubt they have the stomach to go door to door for firearms at least at first, it’s much easier for liberals to just use the tax code. They wanted to curb smoking so tax cigarettes at $5 a pack, I’m guessing they will take the same approach with ammunition.

I would make one observation to this. Your analog doesn't work because you compare something that has no constitutional protection (smoking) to something that does (arms). Thus far, no challenge to taxing arms or ammunition, beyond NFA or sales tax, has reached SCOTUS. It is my opinion that if one of these confiscatory taxes would reach SCOTUS as currently benched, and the Solicitor General argues this has same constitutional scrutiny as the poll tax (a tax enacted to exercise a God given right under the Bill of Rights), that it will rightfully fail.

 

[Soulezoo]

BTW, if the cigarette tax is high as a design to discourage smoking, does a high income tax equally discourage working?

 

[Jgault]

I would make one observation to this. Your analog doesn't work because you compare something that has no constitutional protection (smoking) to something that does (arms). Thus far, no challenge to taxing arms or ammunition, beyond NFA or sales tax, has reached SCOTUS. It is my opinion that if one of these confiscatory taxes would reach SCOTUS as currently benched, and the Solicitor General argues this has same constitutional scrutiny as the poll tax (a tax enacted to exercise a God given right under the Bill of Rights), that it will rightfully fail.

I hope your correct, but the same court found a way to jump through hoopsto make the Obamacare mandate a tax then a fee then a tax again, said mandate wasin obvious conflict with the interstate commerce clause, not to mention the concept of charging people for not using something is in and of itself insane. My point being that at this time a large number of democrats are on a suicide mission. If they win and manage to scrap the filibuster the current Supreme Court makeup will be quickly gone, and the Supreme Court will be a rubber stamp for the next 4 years. There is a bright side, first Trump still has a chance. Second if democrats do win it will be short lived, they will be a disaster and the chances of them losing either the house or senate in 2 years is extraordinarily high. So assuming Trump loses we have to stall and put as much pressure to bear for two years.

 

[BLEE]

I hope your correct, but the same court found a way to jump through hoopsto make the Obamacare mandate a tax then a fee then a tax again, said mandate wasin obvious conflict with the interstate commerce clause, not to mention the concept of charging people for not using something is in and of itself insane. My point being that at this time a large number of democrats are on a suicide mission. If they win and manage to scrap the filibuster the current Supreme Court makeup will be quickly gone, and the Supreme Court will be a rubber stamp for the next 4 years. There is a bright side, first Trump still has a chance. Second if democrats do win it will be short lived, they will be a disaster and the chances of them losing either the house or senate in 2 years is extraordinarily high. So assuming Trump loses we have to stall and put as much pressure to bear for two years.

Exactly! ACA came out of the Senate. Benedict Arnold Roberts said it's a tax. Taxes must originate in the House. SCOTUS ignored the Constitution, unless I missed something!