If you have the time, catch me up on the last 10 years? :)

[BigBrother]

Funny title, perhaps, but if you saw my newish thread on buying another 700P, you know I basically left the Hide and precision shooting 10 years ago due to a move and have now thawed out .

Like some coma awakee being handed an iPhone, I stared in confusion at the new flurry of builders, acronyms, etc. being mentioned, and realized that, if anyone is patient and willing to type a bit out, it could save me hours and hours of traversing threads learning up on all that has majorly happened/changed.

It’s a huge favor I realize, so only if you have the time and patience and would find it enjoyable the way a reporter doing a decade highlight wrap up would, mind filling me in? Just the major points, obviously. Manufacturers and builders, glass, technique (?), gadgets, calibers du jour... if you’ve been around since 2011, what have been the major advancements and taste shifts you’ve seen? Will also be interesting to read different members’ takes.

Again, you’d be doing me a huge favor and saving me the time, so I appreciate it immensely, and please only if you’ve got the time and it sounds interesting for you to do. Thanks!

 

[brianf]

Very quick start..I can’t wait to get smoked lol

over the last 10 years “the best” products have gone up 50-75% in price.

all the names are the same

AI is still the benchmark

tangent theta, ZCO, Night Force, Schmidt and bender are the best scopes

buying a quality action allows you to buy “prefit” barrels. No smith smith needed just screw it on yourself.

The 308 is hated

6.5 creedmore is all that counts...but mocked...but everyone still has one

6mm cartridges are becoming more popular because of better bullets

PRS competitions are all that count if you are debating the usefulness of a product

no one shoot paper targets , everyone shoots “steel”

1500 yards to 1 mile is the new 1000 yard shot

ELR extreme long rang is 2000 + yards, which people think lobbing 50 shots with a 1200 yard cartridge, scoring 2 hits on a piece of plywood counts for something.

22lr is becoming more popular

everyone complains about Ammo prices snd lack of reloading components daily.

there is more but that’s all you need to know while getting back up to speed.

 

[hafejd30]

I’ve only been here a short while but have learned:

-ZCO/Tangent Theta - Rocks
-Savage and Remington- Suck
-Army Jerry was Right
-LRI is good to go
-6.5 CM is the greatest caliber ever (unless you own a 260)
-If you compare any rifle under $2k it will always come down to Tikka
-You should always save for the Accuracy International
-Most of us are poors

This was us in 2019 under Trump

This is us in 2021 under Biden

 

[Luvman]

Previous 2 posters nailed it.

 

[BigBrother]

“buying a quality action allows you to buy “prefit” barrels. No smith smith needed just screw it on yourself.”

WHAT THE FUCK?!?

Plus all the new scope names. Plus lolz @ the lobbing 50 rounds at a piece of plywood at 2000- certainly seen that around the net! And very interesting on now steel vs paper.

 

[TxWelder35]

“buying a quality action allows you to buy “prefit” barrels. No smith smith needed just screw it on yourself.”

WHAT THE FUCK?!?

Plus all the new scope names. Plus lolz @ the lobbing 50 rounds at a piece of plywood at 2000- certainly seen that around the net! And very interesting on now steel vs paper. I suppose that makes sense in some ways.

As far as I know all custom actions now allow for prefit barrels, a couple use savage thread pattern with a shoulder.

6BR variants are king of the competition world. Notable mention to 6xc and 6GT

6.5cm is the new 308

Christmas tree reticles

Remington anything is a giant pile of steaming shit

savage is making efforts to innovate

tikka is just about considered the best factory action.

get a bergara if you want a rem 700 type

there are some really good of the shelf factory ammo besides federal gold metal match. Hornady match ammo and Berger ammo are both highly regarded. Berger ammo comes with Lapua brass.

Atlas bipods are the way to go. Ditch the Harris

 

[hafejd30]

Also,

Everyone converted back to MOA again because MIL users can’t hit shit!!!

 

[hereinaz]

You woke up in the middle of the golden era of long range, but cars still can't fly.

 

[Supersubes]

Very quick start..I can’t wait to get smoked lol

over the last 10 years “the best” products have gone up 50-75% in price.

all the names are the same

AI is still the benchmark

tangent theta, ZCO, Night Force, Schmidt and bender are the best scopes

buying a quality action allows you to buy “prefit” barrels. No smith smith needed just screw it on yourself.

The 308 is hated

6.5 creedmore is all that counts...but mocked...but everyone still has one

6mm cartridges are becoming more popular because of better bullets

PRS competitions are all that count if you are debating the usefulness of a product

no one shoot paper targets , everyone shoots “steel”

1500 yards to 1 mile is the new 1000 yard shot

ELR extreme long rang is 2000 + yards, which people think lobbing 50 shots with a 1200 yard cartridge, scoring 2 hits on a piece of plywood counts for something.

22lr is becoming more popular

everyone complains about Ammo prices snd lack of reloading components daily.

there is more but that’s all you need to know while getting back up to speed.

You spelled Creedmoor wrong.

Oh, and “22lr is becoming more popular” is the understatement of the century.

There you go, Smoked!

 

[MK20]

Yeah, guys are shooting 22 out past 400 yards and making good hits.

There are no primers anywhere in the US.

 

[lash]

Well, they’ve given you a decent short short view of things, but there’s really so much more in just about every aspect of precision long range shooting. I’m typing with one finger on a phone, so I cannot write a true summary from my perspective, but I’ll give it a few posts and see if I can slowly throw some light on the subject.

Oh, and I was around since about 2008, but lost my original account during one of the transitions. I think it was the move to Scout but don’t actually care enough to check. I only provide this info since you asked for a certain time perspective.

Here’s my general summary, with individual category summaries to follow if I don’t lose track or fall asleep before then:

IN GENERAL:
There have been huge strides made in just about every category of this discipline that you can imagine in the past ten years. These include optics, actions, barrels, stocks and chassis, cartridges, ballistic applications, bags, bipods, tripods, factory match ammunition, bullet technology and more, including some sub-categories that didn’t even exist before you left. I cannot pretend that I can or will be able touch on all of them, much less remember.

Just know that in general, ‘entry level’ optics and rifle systems, included direct from factory are vastly improved and one can literally buy an off the shelf rifle and mid-grade optic and easily hit 1000+ yard targets using factory ammunition. This assumes familiarity with rifles and shooting in general, a good location to do so and a shooting partner, coach, buddy or instructor that can get you there. That’s assuming you are new to long range shooting.

Today’s $1000 scopes will do everything that all but the most top end scopes did back then and will do it well. There are a number of barrel makers making very consistent barrels now and technology improvements have kept the cost within reason for them. The big action names from then are mostly still around in some form or another, but now there are a tremendous number of other great choices offering all sorts of options and additional things that you may or may not see as needed.

There’s a general trend towards the use of chassis systems instead of classic stock formats, though there are still some great stock builders around. Most stocks, even the more conventional styles are composite, Fiberglas, polymer, carbon fiber or some combination of them and offer everything from the most conventional feel to almost chassis like looks and feel with almost any option you’re willing to pay for.

Along with the advent of chassis systems and the proliferation of cheek risers in almost all formats, even the prone shooting position and scope height over bore have changed, mostly for the better. There is still a big focus on proper shooting fundamentals, but there are also all sorts of crutches out there that allow today’s new shooter to get away with sloppy shooting and poor fundamentals and still slap steel at 1000. That includes vastly improved options for triggers, with many opting for adjustable triggers set for about 8 ounces.

Speaking of steel and the general move to its use, availability and low cost have made it easy for even joe poor to own and hang some good AR500 steel for practice. This is generally a good thing, but since many are just hung up on ringing that steel and sometimes the finer sighting in and focus issues get lost in the sauce. Oh yeah, almost forgot target impact indicating lights have changed the competition scene so that now people can shoot 25+ pound mouse fart rifles in cartridges like 6BR, 22 Dasher and other low energy long distance projectiles and still top the charts.

Most of the newer Gen of shooters, other than the ELR guys, have never shot anything with more recoil than a 6.5 Creedmoor and consider guys shooting Gods cartridges like .308, .30-06, .270, and .260 to be has been dinosaurs. Competition guns are most often set up with full truck axle barrels, shooting a variant of the 6BR, with extra heavy actions, chassis with added weights, Arca plate and rail and an 8 oz. trigger pull. Dinosaurs tend to call that Barricade Benchrest.

Okay, that’s enough for now and I haven’t even gotten into any specifics.

 

[brianf]

@lash

exactly...

". This is generally a good thing, but since many are just hung up in ringing that steel, sometimes the finer sighting in and focus issues get lost in the sauce."

didnt want to get to fine points but i think steel has become so popular because a hit is a hit in most peoples eyes

with a paper target you hit the X or hit the 9 ring etc...no instant gratification...always room for improvement ... God forbid you have to focus every shot

steel no matter how big is a "hit"...everyone gets a trophy

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Quigly Ford and IOR are king of optics

 

[fdkay]

All Chinese made products are still bad and you shouldn't support their oppressive regime, unless it is Athlon or Vortex, then go ahead and buy those scopes.

 

[RFutch]

KRG Bravo might just be the best deal of all time.

 

[BigBrother]

@lash

exactly...

". This is generally a good thing, but since many are just hung up in ringing that steel, sometimes the finer sighting in and focus issues get lost in the sauce."

didnt want to get to fine points but i think steel has become so popular because a hit is a hit in most peoples eyes

with a paper target you hit the X or hit the 9 ring etc...no instant gratification...always room for improvement ... God forbid you have to focus every shot

steel no matter how big is a "hit"...everyone gets a trophy

Wait, so when I mentioned it was interesting above about steel vs paper, it was in part for this reason. I can’t see how the precision game plays well with steel, which is essentially minute of man shooting. I mean I have to assume paper is still used for precise zeroing and MOA bragging rights right? I did just remember Lowlight made a 10 little circle target years ago, each was 1/4” across I think, and the idea was to see how many out of 10 you could get at 100. Anyway I get liking to ring steel in steel safari type matches (lol is that even still a term? ) but has that really become the primary use for tactical rifles now? So.... you zero one time with paper and then it’s all steel? Shit, seems pretty boring to me after awhile. Where all my high power and F Class folks at? . To be clear, I *do* ultimately prefer steel or random rocks/arbitrary targets, but for honing the craft (?)

Just reminded me of the sniper cube I bought back then. You guys remember those? Any company ever pick that back up? They stopped mfring them right after I bought mine around 08-09 and last I knew no one had picked up the mantle. Amazing little device/material- keep plugging away at it, it bounces around and changes your target, and yet somehow the little thing could take thousands of high caliber rounds and not deform nearly at all!

 

[lash]

Well, you sorta hit the nail on the head. While it’s not true that the best shooters have abandoned paper for self improvement, I’d say it’s popularity as a competitive sport has waned. I honestly haven’t any statistics to support that, but is is my general impression, however insulated my outlook may be.

You want to have some eye-opening fun? Start a thread discussing the merits of non-supported positional shooting and see how fast people jump in to tell you, and I quote,

Precision rifles are not built to be shot unsupported and when you do there is really nothing precise about it.

Or,

Imo, if you need to take a shot, you should make the shot count by finding support for your rifle. These are not battle rifles, they're not meant to take offhand shots with.

Well, that was news to me.

 

[lash]

Just reminded me of the sniper cube I bought back then. You guys remember those? Any company ever pick that back up? They stopped mfring them right after I bought mine around 08-09 and last I knew no one had picked up the mantle. Amazing little device/material- keep plugging away at it, it bounces around and changes your target, and yet somehow the little thing could take thousands of high caliber rounds and not deform nearly at all!

I can’t say that I’ve seen the cube you mention, but I did see a similar thing once at a guys shop.

It turns out that no range wants to have these things around due to liability from ricochets. Never mind that their pistol matches use poppers all of the time and those things are ricochet machines.

 

[hereinaz]

Wait, so when I mentioned it was interesting above about steel vs paper, it was in part for this reason. I can’t see how the precision game plays well with steel, which is essentially minute of man shooting. I mean I have to assume paper is still used for precise zeroing and MOA bragging rights right? I did just remember Lowlight made a 10 little circle target years ago, each was 1/4” across I think, and the idea was to see how many out of 10 you could get at 100. Anyway I get liking to ring steel in steel safari type matches (lol is that even still a term? ) but has that really become the primary use for tactical rifles now? So.... you zero one time with paper and then it’s all steel? Shit, seems pretty boring to me after awhile. Where all my high power and F Class folks at? . To be clear, I *do* ultimately prefer steel or random rocks/arbitrary targets, but for honing the craft (?)

Just reminded me of the sniper cube I bought back then. You guys remember those? Any company ever pick that back up? They stopped mfring them right after I bought mine around 08-09 and last I knew no one had picked up the mantle. Amazing little device/material- keep plugging away at it, it bounces around and changes your target, and yet somehow the little thing could take thousands of high caliber rounds and not deform nearly at all!

Laying down or sitting at a bench and shooting at paper? boring....
Getting challenged with new position, time, wind call, etc? fun!!!

Its all in what you like to do. If you can hit the steel, it confirms that you got the job done. I've never gotten extra points hunting because it was in the perfect center of the lungs. I admire the benchrest and f-class guys, but there is no way you'll find me out there, it doesn't do anything for me. All the shooting at the range prone and bench does so little to train me for hunting, which is mostly why I shoot, but the local PRS match and the new NRL Hunter shooting steel have been awesome at that. And, the way I hear Frank tell it on podcasts, steel shooting started at Rifles Only and Frank started with their competitions, the Sniper's Hide Cup being one of the first.

Oh yea, there are podcasts where dudes talk about rifles and stuff and you can listen to all the drama and cool stuff whenever you want.

Lowlight has his dot drill, but the new hotness is the Chris Way Challenge or something like that.

Sniper cube, never heard it called that. You can find those at Walmart, lol.

 

[J-Ham]

Squirrels have become MUCH more dangerous than anyone could've ever predicted... They've unionized... And now there's a mafia.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

O man, lolol....

Rule #1... Nitride is NOT a coating.
Rule #2...See Rule #1.
Rule #3...See Rules #1 and #2.
Rule #4...Not all triggers perform properly in all custom receivers. "Drop In" triggers can be the devil.
Rule #5...Mag tuning is a thing in precision rifles now; not just in 4k dollar pistols.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Secondistic]

Squirrels have become MUCH more dangerous than anyone could've ever predicted... They've unionized... And now there's a mafia.

 

[StrayDog]

Veer is gone, Graham's Rule No. 1 was forgotten, tripods are everywhere, Prefits, and New England is no longer out of the loop, LoL

 

[LeftyJason]

Atlas CAL, Thunderbeast bipod, mdt's cyke (pronounced sky) bipods are around and good.

Bartlein came up with a new barrel material that lasts 50% longer or so. Modified stainless called MOD400BB.

@THEIS Hoplite rifle is sweet. Check it out. Seriously. Perfect timing coming back for that. Any product Theis is involved with is top quality.

Gain twist barrels are getting really popular.

Tangent Theta and Zero Compromise Optics are generally considered to be the best scopes.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Nobody shoots with wooden stocks.
Chassis are the way to go.
Scopes dont need to be mounted low any longer
30 mm tubes are small
gotta run a kestrel to get your hits

 

[SporterII]

22lr is still relevant.

 

[FisherT&C]

we're jumping the shit out of bullets now!

 

[BigBrother]

Veer is gone, Graham's Rule No. 1 was forgotten, tripods are everywhere, Prefits, and New England is no longer out of the loop, LoL

Not sure if you were one of the ones originally in it, but back around 09 I started a group/mailing list off here called NETactical whose purpose was to unite the few and far in between tactically-minded folks in the Northeast. If you were, hey! If not, funny you brought that up

I also started a scope spreadsheet, accessible to all, so people could log their individual scope experiences, in each mfr’s section, so you could see a broad satisfaction survey-type spread and get a feel for who was doing it right and who wasn’t.

As an aside, and I’m not even kidding, the sheer preponderance of foreign names you guys are throwing out (in scopes in particular) makes this all feel like some group prank (again, see coma comparison in OP). How the hell did all these companies both spin up and dominate in this time? But on the other hand, if you go back to 1998 (10 years prior to me joining), EOTech, Nightforce, US Optics, and the lot were all either nonexistent or tiny, I think. So wow, a decade really is enough to move continents. It’s just so funny virtually NOTHING I remember from back then is being brought up- no Atlas bipods, no AI or McMillan chassis/stocks, no Nightforce/S&B/Hensoldt (man Hensoldts always read to me like the unicorns/Rolls Royces!) to say nothing of Leupold which was much maligned even when I was here, nada. Crazy stuff. Which reminds me of another big question I had, will put into my next reply...

 

[BigBrother]

...So! Have any gas guns gotten so good that bolts are even closer now to extinction? As I recall they were close when I left. Accuracy seemed almost there, with the only major consideration being the difference in impulse and its accounting compared to a bolt gun.

 

[JS/]

Don't believe the propaganda. The .308 is not hated...it's just not used for the "games" because of the recoil. It has it's place. That said, my new rifle build is my first 6.5 Creedmoor...not for games, just because I had to see for myself what all the fuss was about.

 

[loveha]

Atlas Bipods are still the go to bipod. It's just the model that people buy is called the CAL or SCAL. Nightforce is also still a go to. But the Leopold MK5 is also now a hot scope.

Edit for the gas gun question. Extinction? Not even close. Are there some AR 10's that can do sub MOA? Absolutely. But they aren't going to make the bolt action disappear. If anything, the bolt gun is becoming more popular. I think advancements in chassis and prefit barrels with actions that hold such tight tolerances has made it so the mechanically inclined don't need to rely on a gun smith and wait 10 weeks to get the rifle built.

 

[J-Ham]

I still have a Hensoldt... Great glass, I absolutely hate the turrets though.

 

[Jigstick]

The fundamentals have not changed. Personal ability / technique still reigns supreme. I’ve seen twat waffles with $8000 rifles / glass shooting minute of pie plate. And skilled individuals shooting bugholes with factory savage / Remington rifles. So don’t “drink the Kool Aid”.

barrels:

proof research
Krieger
Bartlein
Brux
Broughton
Hawk hill

stocks

mcmillan
Manners

actions:

BAT
Defiance
Stiller
Borden
Seekins

Triggers:

Jewell
Trigger Tech
Timney

when it comes to gunsmiths I’m very partial to one in particular for a multitude of reasons. But there are a lot of good ones out there.

 

[Tchitcherine]

10 years went by like 10 minutes what the fuck.
We are truly living in a Golden Age of design, materials, and manufacturing. With no sign of letting up.
And we use it to endlessly recreate and improve what is basically throwing rocks.

 

[TxWelder35]

...So! Have any gas guns gotten so good that bolts are even closer now to extinction? As I recall they were close when I left. Accuracy seemed almost there, with the only major consideration being the difference in impulse and its accounting compared to a bolt gun.

I don’t see gas guns replacing bolt guns, but you can make a gas gun just as accurate as a bolt gun, it’s just much less forgiving to lack of fundamentals

 

[J-Ham]

Oh, and don't forget about American Rifle Company for actions... Ted is doing some pretty cool stuff!

 

[loveha]

For a chassis the first two that spring to mind is MDT and MPA. There are a few others but those are the only two I have used.

 

[Secondistic]

Don't believe the propaganda. The .308 is not hated...it's just not used for the "games" because of the recoil. It has it's place. That said, my new rifle build is my first 6.5 Creedmoor...not for games, just because I had to see for myself what all the fuss was about.

 

[Tchitcherine]

Monolithic lathe-turned solids. Yes they were around 10 years ago, but LL pronounced 2017 "year of the bullet" because of, call it gain-of-function advances from Warner Tool https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...ctile-122gr-6-5-variant.6334027/#post-6334027.

Do I have your attention yet ?

Yes.

 

[LeftyJason]

Hensoldt is still optically and price wise above the 2 that I mentioned but their reticles haven't kept up with the times. Note this is only from what I've read here.

If you want to catch up on some of the funny and epic threads of the Hide check this thread out.

Legendary Thread Reference

Figured it'd be nice to have a place to go to find some of the Legendary threads. They can be old ones (like gecko45), newer ones (like buddly or recoil control bipods), or even as a place to check what looks like it might turn into a Legendary thread. I've seen a few times where different...

www.snipershide.com

The IOR and Quigley Ford comment along with any mentions of benching, bow kills, and concrete work will make more sense once you check it out.

Veer_g died a little bit ago. Tucker was a mod and got banned. Army Jerry was banned.

So far in this thread there has been little trolling except for the IOR and Quigley Ford comment.

Tripods are everywhere and the king is Really Right Stuff.

RRS SOAR - Home

soar.reallyrightstuff.com

ZCO was started by former Nightforce and Kahles guys.

HOME | ZCO - Zero Compromise Optic GmbH

Zero Compromise Optic (ZCO) is a true specialty scope company where our passion, dedication, and complete focus is building nothing but the highest quality rifle scopes. This can only be accomplished with the most modern and technologically advanced optical and mechanical designs which we have...

www.zcompoptic.com

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

In regards to scopes, lol..........
Go back to sleep and wake up in about 5 months and the scope world will have seen another major change.

In regards to AI.....They were mentioned in the very first reply to you in this thread, haha

Luckily for you though (So you do not get too overwhelmed with changes).....as a whole the industry still treats customers like shit and customers still fill honored that abc assembled their rifle or lmn allowed them to buy an action.........all while getting the run-around on why delivery dates keep getting pushed back AFTER they have been paid in full, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[BigBrother]

Oh by AI I meant their chassis for the Rem 700 actions. I remember back then that was the “cheap” way to have an AI... and the expensive one to spruce up your 700 . Seemed like the fashionable chassis to have if you had the coin (but not enough for a full on AI).

 

[308pirate]

Prefit barrels come in two styles: shouldered and shoulderless.

Not everyone is capable of making shouldered prefits because the chamber dimensions from the shoulder need to be consistently held to a relatively tight tolerance. Likewise shouldered prefits can only be used on actions that are machined with enough dimensional consistency that the barrel will always headspace within SAAMI limits when tightened against the action.

Shoulderless prefits have a nut that forms an adjustable shoulder so you can adjust headspace to always be in spec. Basically what Savage has done for ages.