I have a character who comes out of her house in the middle of the night with her dog. She is in rural Nevada with no bright moonlight and big no trees, but with some close hills. The dog, then the woman are shot. She is wounded in the hip, and the dog is still alive, but critical. I want the shots to have come from a distance, but I want it to be believable. I want the gun to be very plain jane, the ammo to be unremarkable. What distance? What gun and ammo? What kind of sight? Do you have some ideas for me? Thanks for the help!!!
- Thread starter Yael
- Start date
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
308 off the shelf Remington, 600 yards
308 off the shelf Remington, 600 yards
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Walmart Remington 770 scope package in 30-06 or 270 with Winchester silver box ammo. If you want to stick with all Remington and Wally World availability, Remington CoreLokt ammo.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-770/model-770.aspx
This assumes the book is set in current times. This rifle replaced the 710 which was discontinued in 2006.
If your timeframe is earlier than this, just use the Remington Model 700 BDL in 30-06 or 270. That will cover you from 1962 to present day.
http://www.700rifle.com/caliber.php
If you stick with a Weaver 3-9 power scope, that will cover 1962 to present as well.
Walmart Remington 770 scope package in 30-06 or 270 with Winchester silver box ammo. If you want to stick with all Remington and Wally World availability, Remington CoreLokt ammo.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire/model-770/model-770.aspx
This assumes the book is set in current times. This rifle replaced the 710 which was discontinued in 2006.
If your timeframe is earlier than this, just use the Remington Model 700 BDL in 30-06 or 270. That will cover you from 1962 to present day.
http://www.700rifle.com/caliber.php
If you stick with a Weaver 3-9 power scope, that will cover 1962 to present as well.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
If the shooter is just some local ranch hand or something, I dig the 270 9H mentioned, less military(ish) sounding.
Tell us a little more about the shooter.
If the shooter is just some local ranch hand or something, I dig the 270 9H mentioned, less military(ish) sounding.
Tell us a little more about the shooter.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
I'm thinking that the shooter is a regular deer hunter, local guy, who decided to take out a woman he hated, and this character got shot in the crossfire. If you want to see the novel so far, you can find it at http://mynovelnovel.wordpress.com. I am writing it via twitter, and posting the novel on the blog as I go so that people can catch up when they want to.
I'm thinking that the shooter is a regular deer hunter, local guy, who decided to take out a woman he hated, and this character got shot in the crossfire. If you want to see the novel so far, you can find it at http://mynovelnovel.wordpress.com. I am writing it via twitter, and posting the novel on the blog as I go so that people can catch up when they want to.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
30-30 lever action
30-30 lever action
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
I like the Walmart thing. I was thinking something like a 700 Youth Synthetic in .308 because it is cheap and easy to get, but I didn't know about what to do with the optics . . .or if it would carry far enough or be accurate enough. I'm a shotgun girl myself, so all this rifle stuff is new for me. Thank you so much for all your suggestions!! I am reading them and googling my heart out.
By the way, I'm not a liberal wacko trying to make hunters look bad. On the contrary, I'm very pro-gun. So, don't worry--you aren't aiding the enemy by helping me!
I like the Walmart thing. I was thinking something like a 700 Youth Synthetic in .308 because it is cheap and easy to get, but I didn't know about what to do with the optics . . .or if it would carry far enough or be accurate enough. I'm a shotgun girl myself, so all this rifle stuff is new for me. Thank you so much for all your suggestions!! I am reading them and googling my heart out.
By the way, I'm not a liberal wacko trying to make hunters look bad. On the contrary, I'm very pro-gun. So, don't worry--you aren't aiding the enemy by helping me!
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
The bolt action .30-06 is probably the most common hunting rifle in the U.S. manufactured by either Remington or Winchester. Pretty much the same with the ammunition, but I would add Federal ammo to the list. Either iron sights or 3-9 variable powered optical scope.
Now you have to decide if the woman and dog were back lighted by porch light or interior lights from the house. No moon, no lights and surrounded by hills won't enable a distant shot.
The bolt action .30-06 is probably the most common hunting rifle in the U.S. manufactured by either Remington or Winchester. Pretty much the same with the ammunition, but I would add Federal ammo to the list. Either iron sights or 3-9 variable powered optical scope.
Now you have to decide if the woman and dog were back lighted by porch light or interior lights from the house. No moon, no lights and surrounded by hills won't enable a distant shot.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
I'd skip the youth rifle, some may not realize it's just an adult rifle with a smaller stock. Plus people (non shooters) may wonder why a killer would buy a kids rifle.
I like the 270 or 30-06 ideas, simple old school, Joe Blow rifles.
Way to go 9H, now WalMart is going to stop carrying rifles again....
I'd skip the youth rifle, some may not realize it's just an adult rifle with a smaller stock. Plus people (non shooters) may wonder why a killer would buy a kids rifle.
I like the 270 or 30-06 ideas, simple old school, Joe Blow rifles.
Way to go 9H, now WalMart is going to stop carrying rifles again....
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
OK, good point about the youth rifle. I just thought the shorter stock would make the bullet a little less forceful and cause less damage to the character.
Also, good point about Walmart. . . I don't want to put any pressure on them to stop selling guns. That's my boys' favorite aisle!
OK, good point about the youth rifle. I just thought the shorter stock would make the bullet a little less forceful and cause less damage to the character.
Also, good point about Walmart. . . I don't want to put any pressure on them to stop selling guns. That's my boys' favorite aisle!
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Don't forget Ruger m77...kind of an everyman's rifle. Weaver or Bushnell scope. .270 or .30-06 are perfect.
Don't forget Ruger m77...kind of an everyman's rifle. Weaver or Bushnell scope. .270 or .30-06 are perfect.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
airsoft SPR at 10 feet
airsoft SPR at 10 feet
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Remington 7600 Carbine in 308...
Remington 7600 Carbine in 308...
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bolt action .30-06 is probably the most common hunting rifle in the U.S. manufactured by either Remington or Winchester. Pretty much the same with the ammunition, but I would add Federal ammo to the list. Either iron sights or 3-9 variable powered optical scope.
Now you have to decide if the woman and dog were back lighted by porch light or interior lights from the house. No moon, no lights and surrounded by hills won't enable a distant shot.
Same vote on this, ? ok, good, great shooter = will dictate range ?
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Xshot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The bolt action .30-06 is probably the most common hunting rifle in the U.S. manufactured by either Remington or Winchester. Pretty much the same with the ammunition, but I would add Federal ammo to the list. Either iron sights or 3-9 variable powered optical scope.
Now you have to decide if the woman and dog were back lighted by porch light or interior lights from the house. No moon, no lights and surrounded by hills won't enable a distant shot.
Same vote on this, ? ok, good, great shooter = will dictate range ?
</div></div>
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
270, 30-06 or 308
depending on the wound, you can describe the bullet (or vice versa). full metal jacket bullets don't open up that much and 'push through', while hunting bullets open up tons more and cause heavy bleeding. to my knowledge that's the reason why (besides snipers) only full metal jackets are allowed for military ammunition - because the usual hunting bullets are almost impossible to treat.
if you wish the woman/dog to survive, i'd rather go for 'bad shot with full metal jacket'.
on the distance: up to 200m, not even a 'once-per-year' hunter should miss by more than 5cm. so ... if you want the story to say something about 'bad accuracy/nervous shooter/...', i'd go further away than 200m. this is, however, assuming a scope.
if you want to go for iron sights, you can put the shooters alot closer and even 70m may include a bad shot for someone never using iron sights.
270, 30-06 or 308
depending on the wound, you can describe the bullet (or vice versa). full metal jacket bullets don't open up that much and 'push through', while hunting bullets open up tons more and cause heavy bleeding. to my knowledge that's the reason why (besides snipers) only full metal jackets are allowed for military ammunition - because the usual hunting bullets are almost impossible to treat.
if you wish the woman/dog to survive, i'd rather go for 'bad shot with full metal jacket'.
on the distance: up to 200m, not even a 'once-per-year' hunter should miss by more than 5cm. so ... if you want the story to say something about 'bad accuracy/nervous shooter/...', i'd go further away than 200m. this is, however, assuming a scope.
if you want to go for iron sights, you can put the shooters alot closer and even 70m may include a bad shot for someone never using iron sights.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> She is wounded in the hip, and the dog is still alive, but critical. I want the shots to have come from a distance, but I want it to be believable. I want the gun to be very plain jane, the ammo to be unremarkable. </div></div>
Sounds like you need to be looking at a .22LR from a hilltop 150-200yrds away. Easily the most common bullet and everyone and their mother has one, plus a 150-200yrd shot is easy with no wind especially with an off the Walmart shelf 3-9 power scope. You also said they were wounded. A 22LR would easily do that but anything bigger is really going to mess up a dog and completely destroy this ladies hip. .270/.308/30.06 is going to shatter her hip and blow parts out the other side, i.e. she's going to be dead pretty quick. I have a picture of an antelope my buddy shot in the hip and one side had a little hole and the other side was completely blown out volleyball sized wound on exiting side due to the bone fragments. I'll post the pic when I find it. I say .22LR because unless the dog is shot in the tail even a small .270 is going to kill it quick.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> She is wounded in the hip, and the dog is still alive, but critical. I want the shots to have come from a distance, but I want it to be believable. I want the gun to be very plain jane, the ammo to be unremarkable. </div></div>
Sounds like you need to be looking at a .22LR from a hilltop 150-200yrds away. Easily the most common bullet and everyone and their mother has one, plus a 150-200yrd shot is easy with no wind especially with an off the Walmart shelf 3-9 power scope. You also said they were wounded. A 22LR would easily do that but anything bigger is really going to mess up a dog and completely destroy this ladies hip. .270/.308/30.06 is going to shatter her hip and blow parts out the other side, i.e. she's going to be dead pretty quick. I have a picture of an antelope my buddy shot in the hip and one side had a little hole and the other side was completely blown out volleyball sized wound on exiting side due to the bone fragments. I'll post the pic when I find it. I say .22LR because unless the dog is shot in the tail even a small .270 is going to kill it quick.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
This is really helpful. I was hoping that the wound on the woman (her name is Theresa, btw), would have chipped the bone in her hip and caused some muscle damage--maybe traveling a bit but losing most of it's energy on the thick bone there. I was thinking it would probably have passed through the dog, and I didn't kill the dog off, so it would be convenient if it passed through her--especially if the police found it embedded somewhere later for evidence. I was wondering how much expansion would happen, and if there was any ammo or distance that would make the wound a bit less damaging. Interesting info about the full-metal jacket and war, btw. I love learning about all this stuff!
This is really helpful. I was hoping that the wound on the woman (her name is Theresa, btw), would have chipped the bone in her hip and caused some muscle damage--maybe traveling a bit but losing most of it's energy on the thick bone there. I was thinking it would probably have passed through the dog, and I didn't kill the dog off, so it would be convenient if it passed through her--especially if the police found it embedded somewhere later for evidence. I was wondering how much expansion would happen, and if there was any ammo or distance that would make the wound a bit less damaging. Interesting info about the full-metal jacket and war, btw. I love learning about all this stuff!
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I say .22LR because unless the dog is shot in the tail even a small .270 is going to kill it quick. </div></div>
a hard bullet, especially at a short distance, can go through a dog (or similar) without opening up at all. if you don't hit a bone, entry and exit wound may be the size of the bullet itself, without alot of bleeding. as always - depend on placement, bullet selection and speed.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I say .22LR because unless the dog is shot in the tail even a small .270 is going to kill it quick. </div></div>
a hard bullet, especially at a short distance, can go through a dog (or similar) without opening up at all. if you don't hit a bone, entry and exit wound may be the size of the bullet itself, without alot of bleeding. as always - depend on placement, bullet selection and speed.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Great info! I thought about a 22 (and, by the way, my mother DOES have one! LOL), I just didn't know if it would travel very far. If you look at the picture http://yfrog.com/h0tph8j I was thinking that the gunman could have hit her from the small rise, and I didn't think that the 22 would be powerful enough to go that far. That was my problem--it has to be distant enough that the dog doesn't signal that there is danger, but close enough to hit her in the dark. I could change the location of the shooter, of course, as I am not that far along in the novel. I just want the facts to hold up. (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!).
Great info! I thought about a 22 (and, by the way, my mother DOES have one! LOL), I just didn't know if it would travel very far. If you look at the picture http://yfrog.com/h0tph8j I was thinking that the gunman could have hit her from the small rise, and I didn't think that the 22 would be powerful enough to go that far. That was my problem--it has to be distant enough that the dog doesn't signal that there is danger, but close enough to hit her in the dark. I could change the location of the shooter, of course, as I am not that far along in the novel. I just want the facts to hold up. (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!).
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!). </div></div>
Trust us we feel your pain! 9h is correct. You may want to even go with a Ruger ranch rifle in 223 or remington 700 in 243 which are popular. The 223 is extremely common and you could use military surplus or fmj both available at my local walmart or in bulk by mail order for cheap. The 223 will give more credibility to the story if your intent is to wound with fmj. The specifics of the incident will play major parts to the distance and hits (ie wind, terrain, light, available rest/offhand shot, ect). At 300 yards the average joe with 223 with slight wind can screw up a shot. i would stick witha bushnell or weaver 3x9 is the most common seen in these parts
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!). </div></div>
Trust us we feel your pain! 9h is correct. You may want to even go with a Ruger ranch rifle in 223 or remington 700 in 243 which are popular. The 223 is extremely common and you could use military surplus or fmj both available at my local walmart or in bulk by mail order for cheap. The 223 will give more credibility to the story if your intent is to wound with fmj. The specifics of the incident will play major parts to the distance and hits (ie wind, terrain, light, available rest/offhand shot, ect). At 300 yards the average joe with 223 with slight wind can screw up a shot. i would stick witha bushnell or weaver 3x9 is the most common seen in these parts
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info! I thought about a 22 (and, by the way, my mother DOES have one! LOL), I just didn't know if it would travel very far. If you look at the picture http://yfrog.com/h0tph8j I was thinking that the gunman could have hit her from the small rise, and I didn't think that the 22 would be powerful enough to go that far. That was my problem--it has to be distant enough that the dog doesn't signal that there is danger, but close enough to hit her in the dark. I could change the location of the shooter, of course, as I am not that far along in the novel. I just want the facts to hold up. (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!). </div></div>
Yeah, from that picture you really need something with a little more kick. I'd go with a .223 as it's roughly the same .22 bullet but with a lot more powder behind it and easily meets all of your criteria.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Yael</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Great info! I thought about a 22 (and, by the way, my mother DOES have one! LOL), I just didn't know if it would travel very far. If you look at the picture http://yfrog.com/h0tph8j I was thinking that the gunman could have hit her from the small rise, and I didn't think that the 22 would be powerful enough to go that far. That was my problem--it has to be distant enough that the dog doesn't signal that there is danger, but close enough to hit her in the dark. I could change the location of the shooter, of course, as I am not that far along in the novel. I just want the facts to hold up. (I can't stand it when I read a novel that is clearly BS!). </div></div>
Yeah, from that picture you really need something with a little more kick. I'd go with a .223 as it's roughly the same .22 bullet but with a lot more powder behind it and easily meets all of your criteria.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
OK, I am completely ignorant, so help me out here. The .223 is the bullet or the size of the gun . . . or both? Can you, for example, put .223 ammo in a regular 22? Sorry to be so tedious, but I love what you are saying and I want to be absolutely sure I understand well enough to write about it. Thank you!!
OK, I am completely ignorant, so help me out here. The .223 is the bullet or the size of the gun . . . or both? Can you, for example, put .223 ammo in a regular 22? Sorry to be so tedious, but I love what you are saying and I want to be absolutely sure I understand well enough to write about it. Thank you!!
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
OK. I am going to look at that. Now, the question is this: Would a regular deer hunter ever have a need to have fmj ammo, or would this raise suspicions in the authorities if they found it (it is OK if it would, I can work that in).
OK. I am going to look at that. Now, the question is this: Would a regular deer hunter ever have a need to have fmj ammo, or would this raise suspicions in the authorities if they found it (it is OK if it would, I can work that in).
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
fmj ammo (depending on our location) may not be allowed to be used on animals. so it's unlikely that a ordinary hunter would have fmj bullets. but then he could just argue that it's for matches / shooting paper / training. (which would also be unusual for my area - you train with the items you use)
fmj ammo (depending on our location) may not be allowed to be used on animals. so it's unlikely that a ordinary hunter would have fmj bullets. but then he could just argue that it's for matches / shooting paper / training. (which would also be unusual for my area - you train with the items you use)
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Great!! That gives me a great idea! I was going to have the guy drop the weapon into a hot springs vent to get rid of it, but he could keep the bullets--which would draw the interest of the authorities after he becomes a suspect. Thanks!!
Great!! That gives me a great idea! I was going to have the guy drop the weapon into a hot springs vent to get rid of it, but he could keep the bullets--which would draw the interest of the authorities after he becomes a suspect. Thanks!!
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
STOP
STOP
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
parachute pants and a kid and play fade...
parachute pants and a kid and play fade...
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
well, on Sunday night, when Chuck Norris and I were tea bagging UBL, I realized that my 6.5mm round created a perfect whole to drop my large nutsack into his head, and made it surprisingly easy to displace brain matter and blood dripping from my ballsack to his wife's mouth.... in the near future I will be providing my helmet cam video with superb first person point of view footage of this event...
well, on Sunday night, when Chuck Norris and I were tea bagging UBL, I realized that my 6.5mm round created a perfect whole to drop my large nutsack into his head, and made it surprisingly easy to displace brain matter and blood dripping from my ballsack to his wife's mouth.... in the near future I will be providing my helmet cam video with superb first person point of view footage of this event...
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
whatever decider,
mr sheen and i were there and witnessed no teabagging not to mention devgru and norris were still in virginia beach. i dunno which osama clone you were doubledippin but dolph lundgren had our overwatch from the little bird while marky mark took up the sks sniper rifle trigger on that camelpumper spillin his bucket like a dinty moore can.
just sayin,
as for the caliber and gun for yer book id go with a hi-point 9mm carbine with countersniper mildot from 2 blocks away ftw.
whatever decider,
mr sheen and i were there and witnessed no teabagging not to mention devgru and norris were still in virginia beach. i dunno which osama clone you were doubledippin but dolph lundgren had our overwatch from the little bird while marky mark took up the sks sniper rifle trigger on that camelpumper spillin his bucket like a dinty moore can.
just sayin,
as for the caliber and gun for yer book id go with a hi-point 9mm carbine with countersniper mildot from 2 blocks away ftw.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
I smell something fishy....and I am pretty sure a teeniebopper is involved. For someone who is a shotgun girl you sure don't know much. I never met anyone who owned a shotgun that knew so little about guns in general, unless they were rich liberals that live in the suburbs.
I smell something fishy....and I am pretty sure a teeniebopper is involved. For someone who is a shotgun girl you sure don't know much. I never met anyone who owned a shotgun that knew so little about guns in general, unless they were rich liberals that live in the suburbs.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
Nope. Not a teeniebopper (I wish! Hahaha). I grew up with shotguns and a .22, but I haven't been around them since I moved away to college when I was 18 (Wow, almost 30 years ago!). My mother, sisters, and brother stayed near home, and they all know guns really well. I am a shotgun girl BECAUSE you don't need to know anything. You just point and shoot. You don't even need to aim.
Nope. Not a teeniebopper (I wish! Hahaha). I grew up with shotguns and a .22, but I haven't been around them since I moved away to college when I was 18 (Wow, almost 30 years ago!). My mother, sisters, and brother stayed near home, and they all know guns really well. I am a shotgun girl BECAUSE you don't need to know anything. You just point and shoot. You don't even need to aim.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
walmart wooden stock bolt action .243, 30-06, or .308 with off the shelf ammo at 50-150 yards. Since I have seen hunters completely miss deer at 100 yards (yes I know, scary), your villian (unless actually trained), is not going to do well placed shots much past that at night.
If it is a moonless night in rural Nevada and there are no house lights to backlight the targets, you can forget about long range shots, unless shooter has NV or thermal.
walmart wooden stock bolt action .243, 30-06, or .308 with off the shelf ammo at 50-150 yards. Since I have seen hunters completely miss deer at 100 yards (yes I know, scary), your villian (unless actually trained), is not going to do well placed shots much past that at night.
If it is a moonless night in rural Nevada and there are no house lights to backlight the targets, you can forget about long range shots, unless shooter has NV or thermal.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4_OmBEc7iU8/SKtVAEFxdoI/AAAAAAAAAkE/htHXbvUpzGo/S220-h/MichelleN.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4_OmBEc7iU8/SKtVAEFxdoI/AAAAAAAAAkE/htHXbvUpzGo/S220-h/MichelleN.JPG
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
so am I to believe that you, Charlie Sheen (the original Navy Seal), and Dolph Lundgren and Marky Mark in overwatch... had anything at all to do with any black ops occuring on or about Sunday night... talk about a tall tale... but any additional mis-information is appreciated... continue to confuse the media and the world with crazy details, it has proven useful in keeping them away from Chuck and I... the truth is out there!! --- MTF.
so am I to believe that you, Charlie Sheen (the original Navy Seal), and Dolph Lundgren and Marky Mark in overwatch... had anything at all to do with any black ops occuring on or about Sunday night... talk about a tall tale... but any additional mis-information is appreciated... continue to confuse the media and the world with crazy details, it has proven useful in keeping them away from Chuck and I... the truth is out there!! --- MTF.
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
yep yep
yep yep
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
moss usually grows on the south side of trees.... or is it the west...
moss usually grows on the south side of trees.... or is it the west...
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-30 lever action</div></div>
that there is an east Texas assault rifle....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">30-30 lever action</div></div>
that there is an east Texas assault rifle....
Re: I'm an author, and need some accurate info . . .
257 roberts.... Just sounds cowboy killin cool!
257 roberts.... Just sounds cowboy killin cool!
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