Imminent Imported AR Pistol Ban?

[1911addict42]

Was talking to Chuck at Kelly Enterprises this morning to purchase a rifle; he told me that imported AR pistols like B&T, CZ etc. (not rifles) are on the chopping block and will be banned shortly. Sounded VERY confident about it.
Has anyone else heard this?
Or is he just speculating based on elections, action over at Q etc.?

 

[BarkBeetle]

I don't know about that but ATF has been very aggressive in many respects lately .

 

[1911addict42]

I don't know about that but ATF has been very aggressive in many respects lately .

It makes sense for them to do it, especially since they have focused on pistol braced items. Biden can ban imports with a stroke of a pen... I’ll be picking up some imported items just in case.

 

[longshot2000]

Pistols and imports are an interesting business. Honestly, I am surprised that HK SP5 and the B&T pistols have made it through ATF scruitiny. I am glad they have, but my interest is in military correct firearms for collectors / enthusiasts, but my objectives conflict with ATF criteria for imports. I clearly want more MK and B&T, and to some extent CZ. But my objectives and the ATF's guidelines from the CGA are subsequent rulings on imports of all kinds is very different and much more restrictive than I would like to see for our customers.

Each pistol to be imported is reviewed as a product (not each item, obviously), and the ATF has a scorecard to pass or fail. For the most part, the pistol needs to meet the definition of being a sporting gun. Target shooting and hunting are the largest category that meet that criteria.

Chuck at Kelly Enterprises ... Now, there is a character. There are a lot of characters in the firearms business. Some have called him the Soup Nazi of gun dealers. I emailed him once. That was enough for me. I am sure people say shit about me, so I will stop.

 

[1911addict42]

Pistols and imports are an interesting business. Honestly, I am surprised that HK SP5 and the B&T pistols have made it through ATF scruitiny. I am glad they have, but my interest is in military correct firearms for collectors / enthusiasts, but my objectives conflict with ATF criteria for imports. I clearly want more MK and B&T, and to some extent CZ. But my objectives and the ATF's guidelines from the CGA are subsequent rulings on imports of all kinds is very different and much more restrictive than I would like to see for our customers.

Each pistol to be imported is reviewed as a product (not each item, obviously), and the ATF has a scorecard to pass or fail. For the most part, the pistol needs to meet the definition of being a sporting gun. Target shooting and hunting are the largest category that meet that criteria.

Chuck at Kelly Enterprises ... Now, there is a character. There are a lot of characters in the firearms business. Some have called him the Soup Nazi of gun dealers. I emailed him once. That was enough for me. I am sure people say shit about me, so I will stop.

I’m curious... do you think BT is a good firearm to invest in? Will that continue to increase in value, and possibly become a collectible?

 

[_Windrider_]

There is only 1 person who can ban this.

 

[1911addict42]

There is only 1 person who can ban this.
[/QUOTE
Seems that he’s made it his priority to do just that. First move he’ll do after elections, if he wins, is an executive order banning them . He’s promised that

 

[_Windrider_]

Well that’s joe

 

[deersniper]

the pistol needs to meet the definition of being a sporting gun

And of course competitions like 3 gun, PRs, mg shoots etc don’t count as sporting events

We live in bizarro world

 

[308pirate]

I’m curious... do you think BT is a good firearm to invest in? Will that continue to increase in value, and possibly become a collectible?

So here you are panicking about imported "pistols" being banned but want to dump money into them to speculate....

You must be a complete idiot if you think that your "investment" will be safe from confiscation.

 

[1911addict42]

So here you are panicking about imported "pistols" being banned but want to dump money into them to speculate....

You must be a complete idiot if you think that your "investment" will be safe from confiscation.

You are very, very “special.”

 

[_Windrider_]

The upside is if they ban import they can just manufacture them here ala kalashnikov

 

[W54/XM-388]

Quite a few foreign brands have seen the value of setting up USA based corporations, with both production and IP being under USA control, not only for Domestic USA use, but also for international export.

 

[Snuby642]

FN is an example.

 

[deersniper]

You are very, very “special.”

Yeah. Bumpstocks

 

[1911addict42]

Quite a few foreign brands have seen the value of setting up USA based corporations, with both production and IP being under USA control, not only for Domestic USA use, but also for international export.

Can the Dems ban that Process through executive order as well? I am unfamiliar but I’m guessing they can...

 

[Snuby642]

Yea sure ban companies from opening up jobs in the US.

That's some commie stuff right there.

Joe and the ho will be on board I bet.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

No more than they can ban ammunition and pump action shotguns.

But when .gov is allowed to control business ventures it is anyone's guess.

On all accounts Kalishnikov should NOT have been allowed to launch USA division since the USA Gov has complete sanctions and embargoes on Russian companies AND the fact of the VRA....But Politicks do what Politicks do..

DDTC would not allow me to purchase manufacturing rights of a bolt action rifle design from Russian company for me to manufacture here in USA because said rifle is not listed on the VRA, lol...but Russian Gov can open USA division of their Gov owned firearms company even though we have full sanctions and embargo against the country.
Nor can I import a 5.7 pistol from Ukraine manufacturer...because it is not on VRA, lol

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[Steve_In_29]

Was talking to Chuck at Kelly Enterprises this morning to purchase a rifle; he told me that imported AR pistols like B&T, CZ etc. (not rifles) are on the chopping block and will be banned shortly. Sounded VERY confident about it.
Has anyone else heard this?
Or is he just speculating based on elections, action over at Q etc.?

Those are NOT "AR" pistols.

 

[1911addict42]

Those are NOT "AR" pistols.

They make both AR and PCC . And I believe he was referencing both

 

[AManWearingAHat]

I could see them pulling the "sporting purpose" bullshit as mentioned above. That clause certainly seems open to interpretation....

 

[Steve_In_29]

They make both AR and PCC . And I believe he was referencing both

No they don't.

The ONLY thing they have in common with an AR is the mag and caliber. They are completely different weapons and not based on the AR platform.

If mags and caliber is what constitutes an AR then by that logic this is an AR as well....Zastava PAP M90NP

 

[Asiparks]

No they don't.

The ONLY thing they have in common with an AR is the mag and caliber. They are completely different weapons and not based on the AR platform.

If mags and caliber is what constitutes an AR then by that logic this is an AR as well....Zastava PAP M90NP

...and here’s the AR Police........

FFS, we all knew what the OP meant....

still I wouldn’t invest in an imported carbine, doesn’t seem worth the risk, vs other better ways to invest the cash. And, best case for it to hold value, you couldn’t shoot the shit out of it...so why bother.

 

[Steve_In_29]

...and here’s the AR Police........

FFS, we all knew what the OP meant....

still I wouldn’t invest in an imported carbine, doesn’t seem worth the risk, vs other better ways to invest the cash. And, best case for it to hold value, you couldn’t shoot the shit out of it...so why bother.

Not the "police" but words have meanings.

Unlike the libs, we as shooters should be able to discuss our weapons without lumping EVERY gun into the AR pile.

 

[THEIS]

 

[CrabsandFootball]

FN is an example.

FN won one of the largest small arms contracts in the world, along with making 249 240 and M2. Thats the only reason they have a manufacturing facility in the US.

Its not economically viable for many of these other companies to build multi million dollar plants with expensive labor and regulation unless you want a $3500 CZ skorpion or a $4500 MKE mp5.

People saying they will just setup shop here are delusional and have zero knowledge of the firearm market and industry.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

I can assure you that if next week CZ was not allowed to import their products into the USA they would absolutely add onto the USA facility. I had this conversation with Alice of CZ USA several years ago. It is actually in CZ corporate bylaws that if their country ceases exports of firearms to the USA or if the USA ceases importation of their firearms that CZ USA will most definitely setup additional manufacturing facility.

MKE cannot setup USA facility because the way their manufacturing license agreement is with H&K. They are not allowed to manufacturer in the USA.

USA ceased imports of Kalishnikov via Sanctions against Russia and bam..they setup USA damn near instantly.

Caracal attempted to go the import from parent hub in Abu Dhabi and damn near cost the company everything it had when they had the pistol recall issues...now they are setup here in USA.

Last time I was at B&T in Thun a couple years ago they did not see a reason to setup facility in USA for manufacturing but I have meeting scheduled with them at IDEX this coming February now that Switzerland has changed their firearm laws.

There are numerous reasons International firearms manufacturers DO setup facilities in the USA.
1. Our labor is actually cheaper than most of the technological/mechanical advanced countries.
2. Our taxes are lower than most of the technological/mechanical advanced countries.
3. If they completely move operations here instead of just satellite manufacturing then their country does not control who they can and cannot export firearms to. And even with the embargo and sanctions the USA has on firearms exportation; we are way more laxed than most of the technological/mechanical countries.
4. Our compliance regulations are much much more simple here. Here I do not have to register a firing pin being manufactured as some other places have to. Here I do not have to register a barrel being manufactured as some other places do.
5. And NOW that Category I, II and III of the USML Sec 121 has been revised to put most firearms out from under DDTC and into Dept of Commerce....export market from USA is very attractive to International firearms manufacturers.
List goes on and on.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[1911addict42]

Not the "police" but words have meanings.

Unlike the libs, we as shooters should be able to discuss our weapons without lumping EVERY gun into the AR pile.

AR stands for assault rifle so you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about

 

[illbits]

AR stands for assault rifle so you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about

BWAAAAHAHAHA!

 

[Steve_In_29]

AR stands for assault rifle so you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about

But if you are....

AR stands for Armalite Rifle

 

[1911addict42]

Well, here it is

Alert: ATF Interpretive Change Restricts Handgun Imports and May Require NFA Registration(2)

 

[Strykervet]

AR stands for "Army Rifle". It just happens to be an automatic assault rifle so the confusion is to be expected.

 

[CBDR]

Yeah. Bumpstocks

Run Forrest run

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Hi,

I can assure you that if next week CZ was not allowed to import their products into the USA they would absolutely add onto the USA facility. I had this conversation with Alice of CZ USA several years ago. It is actually in CZ corporate bylaws that if their country ceases exports of firearms to the USA or if the USA ceases importation of their firearms that CZ USA will most definitely setup additional manufacturing facility.

MKE cannot setup USA facility because the way their manufacturing license agreement is with H&K. They are not allowed to manufacturer in the USA.

USA ceased imports of Kalishnikov via Sanctions against Russia and bam..they setup USA damn near instantly.

Caracal attempted to go the import from parent hub in Abu Dhabi and damn near cost the company everything it had when they had the pistol recall issues...now they are setup here in USA.

Last time I was at B&T in Thun a couple years ago they did not see a reason to setup facility in USA for manufacturing but I have meeting scheduled with them at IDEX this coming February now that Switzerland has changed their firearm laws.

There are numerous reasons International firearms manufacturers DO setup facilities in the USA.
1. Our labor is actually cheaper than most of the technological/mechanical advanced countries.
2. Our taxes are lower than most of the technological/mechanical advanced countries.
3. If they completely move operations here instead of just satellite manufacturing then their country does not control who they can and cannot export firearms to. And even with the embargo and sanctions the USA has on firearms exportation; we are way more laxed than most of the technological/mechanical countries.
4. Our compliance regulations are much much more simple here. Here I do not have to register a firing pin being manufactured as some other places have to. Here I do not have to register a barrel being manufactured as some other places do.
5. And NOW that Category I, II and III of the USML Sec 121 has been revised to put most firearms out from under DDTC and into Dept of Commerce....export market from USA is very attractive to International firearms manufacturers.
List goes on and on.

Sincerely,
Theis

CZ may be able to due to their size and market share. The cost of plant would be staggering and still a hard business decision to make. Just the tooling to make magazines would cost millions and drastically increase the price across the board.

MKE is Turkey's State Military Production. They own the H&K tooling and there is little H&K can do from a licensing standpoint. They would have to move all that specialized tooling and build a new facility. Not happening for alot of reasons.

Kalashnikov USA has nothing to do with Izhevsk and its a licensing deal with another Russian company. It would be like me moving to China and making shitty cars and calling them a porche. Sells to the uninformed and low IQ types.

There are numerous reasons International firearms manufacturers DO NOT setup facilities in the USA.
1. Most of these countries have significantly less labor cost, regulatory environment and cost of infrastructure. Czech Republic, Turkey, Italy, ect. B&T, Sig and H&K are already at the top of the market, they are the exceptions not the rule.
2. Not quite when you factor in all taxes including transportation, fuel, property, plant, business, local/state, ect with VATS baked in.
3.Agreed.
4. Not quite. You are cherry picking information. Hell Glock had to have Tennifer done in Europe before they came to the US due to environmental and industrial laws basically banning or making that coating economically not viable. Now they have the shitty melonite finish that doesn't wear half as well as old glocks. Lots of examples similar to this.

The market has to exist to support a move. As we have found out many times, its not as easy as moving your plant, IP and expertise half way around the globe without endless pockets.

 

[deersniper]

Hell Glock had to have Tennifer done in Europe before they came to the US due to environmental and industrial laws basically banning or making that coating economically not viable. Now they have the shitty melonite finish that doesn't wear half as well as old glocks. Lots of examples similar to this.

F ing commie enviro whackos ruining everything .

 

[1911addict42]

But if you are....

AR stands for Armalite Rifle

No, I’m not serious. Not really sure how else to respond to your Dwight Schrute comments

 

[308pirate]

You are very, very “special.”

And you're a fucking moron that gets pissy when intelligent people point out your idiocy. Go see what happened to bump stocks.

 

[308pirate]

F ing commie enviro whackos ruining everything .

You actually think crabby football knows fuck all about manufacturing.......anything?


Him arguing with @THEIS about the intl firearm business is funny enough

 

[308pirate]

Hell Glock had to have Tennifer done in Europe before they came to the US due to environmental and industrial laws basically banning or making that coating economically not viable. Now they have the shitty melonite finish that doesn't wear half as well as old glocks.

LOL

 

[Mute]

The a-hole top brass at the ATF is counting on a Biden win and the recension of the Trump EO halting this kind of bureaucratic b.s. These a-holes are going to be in for a big surprise on 11/3. I hope they get their worthless asses re-assigned to some crap office outpost in northern Alaska.

 

[Son of Dorn]

AR stands for "Army Rifle". It just happens to be an automatic assault rifle so the confusion is to be expected.

I thought it was "Army-lite Rifle"?

 

[308pirate]

The a-hole top brass at the ATF is counting on a Biden win and the recension of the Trump EO halting this kind of bureaucratic b.s. These a-holes are going to be in for a big surprise on 11/3. I hope they get their worthless asses re-assigned to some crap office outpost in northern Alaska.

I'd settle for them losing their jobs

 

[THEIS]

CZ may be able to due to their size and market share. The cost of plant would be staggering and still a hard business decision to make. Just the tooling to make magazines would cost millions and drastically increase the price across the board.

MKE is Turkey's State Military Production. They own the H&K tooling and there is little H&K can do from a licensing standpoint. They would have to move all that specialized tooling and build a new facility. Not happening for alot of reasons.

Kalashnikov USA has nothing to do with Izhevsk and its a licensing deal with another Russian company. It would be like me moving to China and making shitty cars and calling them a porche. Sells to the uninformed and low IQ types.

There are numerous reasons International firearms manufacturers DO NOT setup facilities in the USA.
1. Most of these countries have significantly less labor cost, regulatory environment and cost of infrastructure. Czech Republic, Turkey, Italy, ect. B&T, Sig and H&K are already at the top of the market, they are the exceptions not the rule.
2. Not quite when you factor in all taxes including transportation, fuel, property, plant, business, local/state, ect with VATS baked in.
3.Agreed.
4. Not quite. You are cherry picking information. Hell Glock had to have Tennifer done in Europe before they came to the US due to environmental and industrial laws basically banning or making that coating economically not viable. Now they have the shitty melonite finish that doesn't wear half as well as old glocks. Lots of examples similar to this.

The market has to exist to support a move. As we have found out many times, its not as easy as moving your plant, IP and expertise half way around the globe without endless pockets.

Hi,

Holy crap, lol...ok so let me get 1 step more in depth in this conversation. Buckle your seatbelts because this is my PERSONAL and DIRECT experience and knowledge, not what I read on a firearms blog, haha.

1. Do you even know what a MLA consist of in regards to what the license holder can and cannot do? I only ask because clearly you do not if you think MKE can do as they wish just because they own some tooling. You do realize that H&K inspects MKE corporate information 2x a year to ensure MKE is paying the proper agreement fees but most importantly to ensure MKE is NOT selling to somewhere that the MLA restricts.
I personally in my OWN businesses have signed 3 different MLAs over my industry career and have facilitated over 3 dozen while working for DDTC and US Chamber of Commerce with the specialty in International Joint Ventures of firearm and defense industry companies.

2. Kalishnikov still shows that when a USA market gets cut off from other parts of the world they will jump through hoops to reestablish it via other means. O and that "other" company you are thinking of is Rosoboron Export....They control ALL firearms and military equipment export from Russia including MLA, Technology Transfers, and JVs.

3. Let me guess...you read somewhere that Turkey, Italy, etc has cheaper labor rates than USA, lol...Have you seen the price of real Italian shotguns? Have you visited Italian firearm manufacturers and seen what they have to do in regards of firearm storage? Do you know the security measures Turkish firearm manufacturers have to put in place for the section of the facility that engraves the firearms?

4. Taxes, transportation, fuel, property, etc etc.....How many businesses (Doesn't have to be in the firearms industry either) do you own? I only ask because clearly you have absolutely no idea on how businesses work. For example; I personally pay no property taxes for the next 10 years on my firearms business. I personally pay a drastically reduced local/State tax over the next 10 years and after that it is subject to how many employees I have. I personally pay reduced payroll taxes for the next 5 years and after that it is subject to how many employees I have.
Fuel, lololololol....In Istanbul it ranges from 85-101 US cents per liter. That is higher than what I pay here in Louisiana per gallon. In Prague it ranges from 1.11-1.17 USD per liter. List goes on and on.
Property----On your next trip to Tuscany region of Italy go visit some commercial real estate properties and get back with me, lolol

5. And the ol Glock tenifer debacle....LOLOLOL You parroted the public statement story instead of the real story. Real story is because Glock USA former CEO (Paul) whom got locked up in prison overseas for several years was undercutting Glock Austria in the Israeli market and the coating change was done to provide easier evidence of such but please feel free to continue believing the environmental boogeyman story.

6. The market....ummm that is an easy one. The USA commercial market is the largest firearms market on this planet; hands down!!

7. I do this for a living, I can go on and on with direct first hand experience and not what www said.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[CrabsandFootball]

Hi,

Holy crap, lol...ok so let me get 1 step more in depth in this conversation. Buckle your seatbelts because this is my PERSONAL and DIRECT experience and knowledge, not what I read on a firearms blog, haha.

1. Do you even know what a MLA consist of in regards to what the license holder can and cannot do? I only ask because clearly you do not if you think MKE can do as they wish just because they own some tooling. You do realize that H&K inspects MKE corporate information 2x a year to ensure MKE is paying the proper agreement fees but most importantly to ensure MKE is NOT selling to somewhere that the MLA restricts.
I personally in my OWN businesses have signed 3 different MLAs over my industry career and have facilitated over 3 dozen while working for DDTC and US Chamber of Commerce with the specialty in International Joint Ventures of firearm and defense industry companies.

2. Kalishnikov still shows that when a USA market gets cut off from other parts of the world they will jump through hoops to reestablish it via other means. O and that "other" company you are thinking of is Rosoboron Export....They control ALL firearms and military equipment export from Russia including MLA, Technology Transfers, and JVs.

3. Let me guess...you read somewhere that Turkey, Italy, etc has cheaper labor rates than USA, lol...Have you seen the price of real Italian shotguns? Have you visited Italian firearm manufacturers and seen what they have to do in regards of firearm storage? Do you know the security measures Turkish firearm manufacturers have to put in place for the section of the facility that engraves the firearms?

4. Taxes, transportation, fuel, property, etc etc.....How many businesses (Doesn't have to be in the firearms industry either) do you own? I only ask because clearly you have absolutely no idea on how businesses work. For example; I personally pay no property taxes for the next 10 years on my firearms business. I personally pay a drastically reduced local/State tax over the next 10 years and after that it is subject to how many employees I have. I personally pay reduced payroll taxes for the next 5 years and after that it is subject to how many employees I have.
Fuel, lololololol....In Istanbul it ranges from 85-101 US cents per liter. That is higher than what I pay here in Louisiana per gallon. In Prague it ranges from 1.11-1.17 USD per liter. List goes on and on.
Property----On your next trip to Tuscany region of Italy go visit some commercial real estate properties and get back with me, lolol

5. And the ol Glock tenifer debacle....You know how I know you are not as in depth in the firearms industry as you may think?? You parroted the public statement story instead of the real story. Real story is because Glock USA former CEO (Paul) whom got locked up in prison overseas for several years was undercutting Glock Austria in the Israeli market and the coating change was done to provide easier evidence of such but please feel free to continue believing the environmental boogeyman story.

6. The market....ummm that is an easy one. The USA commercial market is the largest firearms market on this planet; hands down!!

7. I do this for a living, I can go on and on with direct first hand experience and not what www said.
View attachment 7455581View attachment 7455582

Sincerely,
Theis

Look you clearly know more about imports and the paperwork than I. Its not my business. It doesn't change what I have said if you look at history and what will and does happen.

1. And that means almost nothing with current events. Have you been watching what has been going on in Turkey over the last 10 years? They will most likely be the first NATO country to go to full blown war with another NATO country (France, Greece,ect). You think Turkey gives a flying shit about paperwork when they just stiffled a coup and are in the process of becoming the next caliphate? As they move further and further away from the west, they aren't going to give 2 shits about a German licensing agreement, especially when the end users will be able to purchase the product cheaper/the same then they currently are. Not that the Roller Lock is a huge military exporter anymore anyway. Do you really need a list of companies over the last 50 years that had "Licensing" agreements which turned into fuck you we make now.

2. Let me know how that US Kalash compares to one built in Mother Russia. L O L.

3. They all have cheaper skilled rates than the US. There is a big difference between skilled and unskilled labor. Turkey and eastern Europe much more so than Italy. Italy is a 3rd world country with nice tourist sites. Go outside the main cities, especially in the south/Sicily and its like being in Africa. And there is a huge difference between skilled craftsman wages in the US and most of the rest of the world. We vacation in Italy every few years and Brecia is a few days of that (Gardone to be exact). I am also a Italian shotgun whore and 90% of my shotguns, are Italian. When I bought my Perazzi years ago, I was fitted at the factory. Before that, CG when I was sponsored by them. Now I shoot Zoli and the wife shoots a couple different Beretta Guns. The point is, those generational craftsman making some of the finest guns in the world are still paid less than they would be in the US. The Margins on these guns are pretty large as well. The most comparable US produced gun would be a Kolar. And it doesn't have a few levels of supply chain with baked in costs to inflate it.

4. My family owns 3 businesses at the moment. A Large GC, a DOD contracting firm and another related to POS. Not everyone gets tax credits or tax deferment and its locality dependent. In the 2 states where those 3 business are, we aren't getting shit. You are in LA, where they will suck your asshole for business because $13/hr is considered a living wage. In developed, industrial states unless you have political connections, you aren't getting out of paying taxes. They are cooked into everything from fuel, vehicles, property, inventory, energy, waste, ect. Comparing the rates in a place like Tuscany to Louisiana is hardly intellectually honest. Lets compare it to premium industrial space in Sonoma or Napa for a fair comparison. \

5. The reason matters little. Glock had a robust finish that was made in the EU. That changed and due to environmental concerns, they could not replicate that here in the US. With the production of Glocks in GA, they need to do it here. They couldn't and that is strictly due to the differences in environmental regulations between both countries.

6. The market is not infinite. You can only sell so many $4000 semi auto pistols and the ROI (Which you should understand as a touted business owner) has to support the investment. Over the last 20 years we have seen HUNDREDS of firearms manufactures go out of business here in the US, and most were due to times of softening demand and dropping prices. I don't even know what ur arguing about at this point.

 

[Steve_In_29]

No, I’m not serious. Not really sure how else to respond to your Dwight Schrute comments

So basically you can't tell your left from your right and that is somehow my problem and you are the victim?

 

[1911addict42]

Perhaps one of you gents can help me understand something... I’m looking at the B&T APC .308 DMR (the 19 inch barrel version.) It is being described and sold as a “pistol”. Same goes for the 14.3 inch with the pinned and welded muzzle.
If these are rifle length barrels, why are they being called pistols? Can I add a stock to it without having it become an SBR? Thanks for helping me clear this confusion.

 

[Steve_In_29]

Perhaps one of you gents can help me understand something... I’m looking at the B&T APC .308 DMR (the 19 inch barrel version.) It is being described and sold as a “pistol”. Same goes for the 14.3 inch with the pinned and welded muzzle.
If these are rifle length barrels, why are they being called pistols? Can I add a stock to it without having it become an SBR? Thanks for helping me clear this confusion.

They are called pistols because those companies are not allowed to import rifles.

Yes as long as the barrel meets minimum length requirements you can install a stock.

 

[1911addict42]

They are called pistols because those companies are not allowed to import rifles.

Yes as long as the barrel meets minimum length requirements you can install a stock.

How does a company like IWI get the Tavor in here? They assembling pets in the USA?

PS It is a pretty stupid loophole to call it a pistol I’m not surprised ATF is trying to close it. Either you can import rifles or you can’t.

 

[Mute]

How does a company like IWI get the Tavor in here? They assembling pets in the USA?

PS It is a pretty stupid loophole to call it a pistol I’m not surprised ATF is trying to close it. Either you can import rifles or you can’t.

It's not a loophole. It's what happens when bureaucrats make rules. They're completely arbitrary, capricious and nonsensical. Can't blame the manufacturers for using these stupid rules to conduct business and sell their products.

 

[_Windrider_]

They are called pistols because those companies are not allowed to import rifles.

Yes as long as the barrel meets minimum length requirements you can install a stock.

Wait what? If you put a stock on something that is registered as a pistol your gonna have a bad time.