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Rifle Scopes Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

zfk55

zfk55

Private
Minuteman
Aug 8, 2009
75
1
83
Montana
www.swissproductsllc.com
We've narrowed the search down to two manufacturers. Premier Heritage and US Optics SM3 Series 5x25 TPAL, or similar for solid 1,000 yard clarity shooting. Please, no recommendations for other scopes. We've been through all of the options and our own requirements and need solid user advice on just those two.
Anyone here have experience with <span style="font-style: italic">both</span> at or near that range?
Thanks very much for any help.

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Never used a PH, but got to finger one. It looks like a quality scope, I'd own one.

I have 2 USO scopes, and 2 on order. I prefer USO b/c when spending that much I get to spec out my scope just like I want it. Also all the reticle choices get you exactly what you want. I'm not a huge fan of the Gen2 reticle, not that it's a bad reticle, I just prefer different.

Plus John and company are good people, always there to help and never treated my phone call like a hassle when I had questions.

And then there's the story of one of my USO's taking a 5 ft drop straight onto the scope obj and EREK turret, and it never skipped a beat...
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I have both. The PH I have is a 3-15 with the single turn knob. The knobs on it are outstanding and very tactile. This one has the GEN2 mildot and it is a little broad... so be prepared to cover a little bit more of the target depending on what your used to. I love the throw levers so zeroing the turrets is quick and easy. Some dont like them because the clicks are too close together, but It doesnt bother me at all.

The USO I have is an ERGO 3-17, 44mm with an EREK. The reticle on this on is the MPR and its a little thinner but not so thin you loose it. I love this optic as well. The knobs on it are very tactile as well as spaced alot further apart.

The clearity of the glass on both of them is outstanding and the customer service behind them is outstanding. I wouldnt hesistate to buy either of them again in the future.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Thank you. That didn't make it much easier. Is it a toss up for you, or if your wife told you to sell one for a new Louis Vhiton purse, which would go under?

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I think it's really a win / win... It's all gonna come down to which scope suits your needs, only you can decide that.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Shiz man... that would be tough... because both of these peices of glass are like two very hot girl friends, they look great, and do what I want them to do.

If I absolutely had to ditch one... It would be a toss up... but only because of errors on my part. I wish the PR had a little bit thiner reticle.. so I should have gotten it with the Gen2 XR. But on the USO I wish I had a 34mm tube.... It seriously is a toss up man. 50/50 for me... blind fold and point.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Actually,.... that did help.
And thank you! We'll compose options now and talk to both of them.
Great place, Sniper's Hide.

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Now I'm wondering. Does your wife actually know that you have two expensive scopes snd two hot girlfriends??

And thanks again!

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

hahahaa...
grin.gif
yea... she is a little jealous.... but at the end of the day I always go back to her.. so its all good!
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ren</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shiz man... that would be tough... because both of these peices of glass are like two very hot girl friends, they look great, and do what I want them to do.

If I absolutely had to ditch one... It would be a toss up... but only because of errors on my part. I wish the PR had a little bit thiner reticle.. so I should have gotten it with the Gen2 XR. But on the USO I wish I had a 34mm tube.... It seriously is a toss up man. 50/50 for me... blind fold and point.

</div></div>

You could always order another USO identical to the one you have now but spec out a 34 or 35mm tube for it. When it comes in you can sell your current one and recoup most of your money.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I've played with and shot both recently. Obviously I'm a bit biased but for the money and options available the USO wins.

OBTW USO also has the dual detent knobs, Premier and S&B both have agreements with us to use our technology
wink.gif


I'd be glad to walk you through the options avilable.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Your right I could..... but picking up one of RWSnyder's 338s broke me for the moment. And besides... Im not unhappy with the USO by anymeans at all! That statement was purely based on his question.

Now if somebody had to absolutely have it and was offereing me a sum of cash.....thats a different story...LOL Money talks...... and Im not afraid to pimp out one of my beauties until I can get a replacement. The advantage of having a Wife and two girlfriends I guess
laugh.gif
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Doc, that's exactly what we'll do. I'll contact you offline and have my Son call you as soon as he's ready.
Thanks for the offer.

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've played with and shot both recently. Obviously I'm a bit biased but for the money and options available the USO wins.

OBTW USO also has the dual detent knobs, Premier and S&B both have agreements with us to use our technology
wink.gif


I'd be glad to walk you through the options avilable.

Cheers,

Doc </div></div>

What is a dual detent knob and what is the purpose? Are there any other options that don't appear on the USO website?
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

The Dual Detent knob is the "buzzz, clunk" knob. It has finer "clicks" between the major divisions. ie: .1 - .9 are fine and 1.0 is a heavy detent. The premise is that you can rapidly count major divisions via feel as opposed to visually verifying it.

Example: You need 3.2 mils of elevation. Buzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzz - Thunk, click, click.

Oh and it comes on the EREK knob so that you can reset the erector and gain back all of your lost elevation when zeroing. It also acts as a form of "zero stop" in that you can determine and adjust how many clicks off the bottom of travel you are from your 100 yard zero.

John and company are in the process of redesigning the web site which will add all the "stuff" that has not been able to be added on the old site due to various issues.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Example: You need 3.2 mils of elevation. Buzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzz - Thunk, click, click, click.
</div></div>

Your on 3.3 boss....
grin.gif
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Example: You need 3.2 mils of elevation. Buzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzzzz - Thunk, Buzzzzz - Thunk, click, click, click.
</div></div>

Your on 3.3 boss....
grin.gif
</div></div>

I knew there was a 3 in there some where
blush.gif


Somebody has to keep me strait, Thanks

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John and company are in the process of redesigning the web site which will add all the "stuff" that has not been able to be added on the old site due to various issues.

Cheers,

Doc</div></div>

OMG DOC!!! You mean there are options of stuff I didn't know about that I could have gotten added to my build? LOL Hell, that could have kept me in contact with you for like 4 extra weeks...huh, or was that point? LOL
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Doc, u talking about the different knob clicks. Is that why my us#3 windage knob has 2 different click sounds. One way. Clicks and the other way doesn't. I can only feel the notches
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zfk55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now I'm wondering. Does your wife actually know that you have two expensive scopes snd two hot girlfriends??

</div></div>

My wife came home from work early one day to find me cleaning a couple rifles and said "Oh, I didn't realize I'd find you with your mistress."
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I just got in from shooting 1105 yards with my new PH 5-25x56. All I can say is wow, it shot great, great clarity, great tracking, reticle was ideal.

I've shot USOs but never at that range. Great scopes. You can't go wrong with either of your options.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Did you read the optic comparison posted here a few weeks back? That should put some good context around a lot of your questions.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I was at the Houston Scope meet where we got to compare the Premier, USO, and others (like Hendsoldt, S&B, Leupy, etc).

The general consensus was the USO lost to the Premier in terms of optical quality. The Premier meanwhile lost to the Hendsoldt (Zeiss). Both do have great tubes and very nice turrets.

Besides the optics, both have wonderful build quality.

Here is a link to the scope meet thread:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...548#Post1246548
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aroth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got in from shooting 1105 yards with my new PH 5-25x56. All I can say is wow, it shot great, great clarity, great tracking, reticle was ideal.
</div></div>

Which reticle did you go with?
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Doc, u talking about the different knob clicks. Is that why my us#3 windage knob has 2 different click sounds. One way. Clicks and the other way doesn't. I can only feel the notches </div></div>

I experienced this exact thing, but on my EREK knob, not on my US#3 M40 knob... I thought it was a little additional bonus feature and I can definitely see the usefulness by "hearing" whether you are turning up or down the elevation. Wished my windage knob did the same...

Somehow I don't think that is what Doc is referring to however... That would be a nice feature also, one that I didn't know existed. I've read other threads on PH talking good things about that feature...
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MEGAfan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aroth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just got in from shooting 1105 yards with my new PH 5-25x56. All I can say is wow, it shot great, great clarity, great tracking, reticle was ideal.
</div></div>

Which reticle did you go with? </div></div>

I believe the 5-25's are available with the Gen II XR for now.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Ok, gents. We've been doing some serious enquiring for the past two days and yesterday evening my Son spoke with a repair and design tech who works for Schmidt & Bender and Horus. Strangely enough, he's local. He also designed turrets for S&B and a number of hign end companies.
We're not exacly enchanted with the idea of sending a scope to Europe for potential repair issues, so S&B would be low on our list.
A point he made was the potential for "mirage" ocurring with scopes greater than 16 power. According to him, mirage is rather common in higher power scopes in higher temperatures and specifically affecting POI in those scopes.
This probably wouldn't affect our shooting at all considering our locale, but are there good reasons for having a 24 as opposed to a 16, or a 32 as opposed to an 18 power variable if a 4x16 has the correct reticle for 1,000 yard shooting?
This may sound naiive, but my own shooting has not been much further than 600 yards at best. My experience is extensive with old school technology. The last new scope for me was an easy 15 years ago. My Son is now deeply immersed in studying new technology, but he's a novice in this field as well.

All of this has an end purpose for us. We now possess a rifle designed and manufactured specifically for this kind of shooting, so the scope investment pretty much has to be the right choice right out of the gate.
We received a lot of good advice and opinions from various sources, and we're paying close attention to the advice here on SH. We're standing at the US Optics threshold at this point. Any further insight we haven't thought of is greatly appreciated.

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

You cant go wrong with USO or NF. But great optics, I prefer many of the options available on the USO side. As far as mag, I would say nothing above a 20x for sure. Also look into 1st focal plane scopes to sooth your worries about proper reticle size in a variable power scope. Hope this helps, and if it doesnt theere are plenty of others on here that know much more then myself who I am sure will help you out.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zfk55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks. After a lot of reading and reviews, we're locked into first focal plane for sure.

zfk55 </div></div>

Yeps.... Im never going back to second focal.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

zfk55,

You and your Son need to sit down and ask yourself some serious questions that will make your determination of optic much easier.

1. What is this rifle for? Strictly steel and paper in the day time? Hunting? Competition?

2. Are you going to back the truck up and pull out the shooting mat/bench? Walk 1/4 mile? Hump it across the country side?

3. Are you locked into Mils, MOA or IPHY, or doesn't it matter?

4. Will you be shooting in No light / Low light situations?

5. Do you want 25X because you need it or because of the high CDI factor? See #1 and #2.

6. Is this a "stand up, sit down, kneel, pray" gun or strictly a bench/prone gun?

These are some of the questions I ask everyone that calls/e-mails me about a custom scope even if they "know" what they want. If you say "Yes" to #1 and #2 then I would ask you to put them into percentages. If you will be on your belly 90% of the time my recommendations would be different than if it's a 75% hump across country gun.

Food for thought to help the process.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

zfk55,

You and your Son need to sit down and ask yourself some serious questions that will make your determination of optic much easier.

<span style="font-style: italic">We did that today, Doc. </span>

1. What is this rifle for? Strictly steel and paper in the day time? Hunting? Competition?

<span style="font-style: italic">Competition and defense. We're in the mountains with a lot of open ground on three sides. This is a dedicated medium distance rifle. We have others for other applications.</span>

2. Are you going to back the truck up and pull out the shooting mat/bench? Walk 1/4 mile? Hump it across the country side?

<span style="font-style: italic">Potential for a fair bit of humping.</span>

3. Are you locked into Mils, MOA or IPHY, or doesn't it matter?

<span style="font-style: italic">Probably not mildot.</span>

4. Will you be shooting in No light / Low light situations?

<span style="font-style: italic">Likely low light.</span>

5. Do you want 25X because you need it or because of the high CDI factor? See #1 and #2.

<span style="font-style: italic">We're not sure we need it. We're open to your thoughts.</span>

6. Is this a "stand up, sit down, kneel, pray" gun or strictly a bench/prone gun?

<span style="font-style: italic">Primarily prone. Its 14 pounds.</span>

These are some of the questions I ask everyone that calls/e-mails me about a custom scope even if they "know" what they want. If you say "Yes" to #1 and #2 then I would ask you to put them into percentages. If you will be on your belly 90% of the time my recommendations would be different than if it's a 75% hump across country gun.

Food for thought to help the process.

<span style="font-style: italic">Tell us what you feel we need, please.</span>


Cheers,

Doc

This is the rifle in question.

WilsonLRAR2.jpg


Don't ask about the scope. Its not in the equation.

zfk55


Forgot to mention, we have our own 500 yard range.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: zfk55</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
WilsonLRAR2.jpg

</div></div>

IMO, 3.2-17x all the way... 22x and above is just not necessary for the weapon, and a medium range weapon. I recently traded my 22x NF for a 15x b/c it is going on a AR10, I've never been lacking with my 17x scopes all the way to 1k, unless mirage is heavy, in which more power will not help.

You have to remember, you give up something with the mega high power FFP scopes, you have to deal with the reticle turning to small at low power, or too thick at high power... To me, a 15-17x scope is well balanced.
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

Thanks, JR. We agree with you. Virtually all of my scope work has been with fixed 6, 8 and 4x12 as far back as 40 years ago. This is my first foray into the world of so-called tactical scopes. My son is actually better versed than I, but both acknowledge a dirth of experience with current optics.
We're pretty much at the point of a 15 or 16 power variable.
Thanks again

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

I got caught up in the mega high power craze, and admittedly, sometimes still want a little more power at times, but more times than not, I find my self with more than enough to see my hits with my 17x's. Even my 15x NF...

Let us know what you decide. You're picking through the upper echelon of scopes here, so I doubt you can make a bad purchase...
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

From all the above I'd recommend:

SN-3 3.2 - 17X
T-PAL(Parallax on the right side)
EREK knob 1/4 IPHY adjustments
US #1 windage knob LEFT Side
MDMOA reticle
Illuminated (Red)
Sun Shade w/ Polarizer (ARD)

I have on set up this way (wind left, parallax right) and everyone I've shown it to stops and says "Huh, I'd have never thought of that, but it makes sense."

The reason is that when you are dialing out parallax you are trying to hold the rifle still. Right handed folks drive their rear bag with their left hand, and when your dialing parallax your not on the trigger anyway. While on the gun you may need to dial wind or light the reticle. Keep your trigger finger on the trigger and dial w/ your left hand.

Go to the USO website and spec one out then shoot me a line and I'll get it to you for less than you think. The left right options are free during the build and not listed.

Cheers,

Doc
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

So this is what has happened.
My son spent an entire month researching and reading reviews ad nauseum. At the end of the day it seems to hahve been a wash with apples/apples, scope/scope in the same category.

What tipped the scales is that the Premier Heritage dealer is right here in Kalispell/Creston in our own back yard. He knew our last name from our Swiss Products business and will have a scope in with this coming Friday's shipment. I just bought the 3x15x50 Gen2 XR.
Thanks to all of the S/H members for input and advice. It all made a difference, and a special thanks to Doc for taking his time to speak with my son on the phone.
My son's best with the Wilson .308 thus far is .56/moa at 100 yards. The scope on it left something to be desired so it should be an interesting weekend with the Premiere Heritage. 500 and then 1,000 comes next and I'll post results, but the weather is looking pretty marginal for this coming weekend.
Thanks again to all.

zfk55
 
Re: Imminent purchase and I need user opinions.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">People dial wind? How odd...
laugh.gif

</div></div>

You're supposed to touch that knob after you get zeroed?
wink.gif
 
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