- Thread starter NiteQwill
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Yeah probably close to it, that's why I am just planning on getting the whole thing and keeping my current AT3/IP set up. No disk changing for me since I only use 2 disk for all the powders I use (which I'd think is probably true for most), and I could run them both at once and have a back up in case something breaks at some point. A few hundred bucks isn't really worth not having all of that if you already have an IP set up. Imo
Man, i was thinking this would be a SuperTrickler / AutoTrickler killer at around $750. At $1,000+ I dont think its gonna have the market traction to kill those off.
I dunno man. In my opinion the worst part about the ST is the 50 other things the unit does instead of just throwing the damn powder quickly and accurately. You know why it needs stats.. so you can keep track of when your 30% overthrows changes to 20%. The IP is like 100% accurate or damn near.. so who even cares. Theres a whole bunch of people on the ST pages that are constantly struggling with all the settings and features.. seems kinda stupid to me. Most people would rather just have something that is simple, reliable, accurate and fast. That's what the IP does.
There’s a phone app also. I view the keypad as an upgrade, though. I don’t want to be tethered to the system with my phone.
It will easily take the top spot and sink ST and AT4. It works exactly as its supposed to. That's why
If they were all the same price, then I would tend to agree, but what makes this system worth twice as much as a new ATv4? Please give specific examples.
It works and doesn't overthrow. It just works. Everyone who has the IP set up with at3 now will tell you the same thing. It's not like all the hype that frankly I questioned with the super trickler. There may be a few but anyone willing to pay $500 for an AT4 or $750 for a ST, that works 75% of the time, will pay 900 for a IP full set up that works all the time every time and is so easy to use and also faster. It's a one time expense for a bunch of dudes who spend $.50 - $1.00 per bullet to load and all of them need a $500 scale to work with. Fool around with one that doesn't work regularly and after a few months of that you just aren't interested in doing that crap again, especially if you KNOW there's another option that does in fact work all the time and is easier to clean up to boot. It's really not comparable to those machines and much more comparable to a Promethius in every way honestly.
Why do you keep saying its $900, when we know for a fact its not? He said it will be $995 WITHOUT the breeze shield. I'm betting that most people will need one extra disc also; so I bet its more like $1100 after both of those are added.
I have fooled around with the ATv4 and the ST plenty. Are there features that I like on the IP more? YES, the controlled dispensing of the trickler is the magic here. The bulk dump is fine, but nothing revolutionary in my mind. The electronics are fine, but nothing earth shattering and I can see in the videos areas that could already be improved by different code.
I guess the only way to know if this is going to be a market killer is when we see the ST and AT being sold in quantity at a low price like we did with the LabRadar. I haven't seen that happen yet. If this thing were $750 I think you would see a lot of people jumping ship to it.
I didn’t even clear $450 for my ST after S/I so there’s that.
I think this is a ST killer more than an AT killer. Or maybe a both killer. Time will tell
I think this is a ST killer more than an AT killer. Or maybe a both killer. Time will tell
It's a bit more that most were expecting I think. But, it seems that it's going to be built well enough that there won't be too many upgrades.
Sure, an auto-trickler is half that price (or a bit more, I don't even know now)....but, there's already 4 versions that many have owned all 4 and paid for all of them. So, if this new setup pretty much alleviates ever upgrading, you're still saving money in the long run.
From the videos I've seen (and using the trickler for a while now), we are almost at the point where we can't go any further without getting in Prometheus territory. And that basically requires it being hands free as far as funnels and cups. Which is basically the real perk of Prometheus speed and hands free.
I was hoping for a cheaper price as well but I'll still be sending over cash for at least two of these setups.
Sure, an auto-trickler is half that price (or a bit more, I don't even know now)....but, there's already 4 versions that many have owned all 4 and paid for all of them. So, if this new setup pretty much alleviates ever upgrading, you're still saving money in the long run.
From the videos I've seen (and using the trickler for a while now), we are almost at the point where we can't go any further without getting in Prometheus territory. And that basically requires it being hands free as far as funnels and cups. Which is basically the real perk of Prometheus speed and hands free.
I was hoping for a cheaper price as well but I'll still be sending over cash for at least two of these setups.
Agree. I am disappointment with the pricing, also; not because I feel for the poors, but because he came out the gate more than double the price of a V4, leaving some market share for Adam and his mediocre solution. He could have ruled the world, though I suspect he'll be ridiculously successful and rightfully so—it looks awesome.
I would have loved to see him Garmin Adam, who is like Labradar and doesn't want to listen to customers (and now they have none). Now there's room for two, given the markedly different price points (think AMP and Bench Source; let AMP sell units for $900 and Bench Source et al pack up shop).
Also going to need to keep the readers handy for that 3pt font on that 2" screen.
We all love the $360 trickler, sure. But you're saying that you couple it with a $650 bulk dropper and a 1980s 10-key and you now have a Prometheus? Stop.
Any chance this will also support ladder loading? This is one of the best features of my ST (and the ability to repeat a load if it went wrong or whatever) and I'd love to have this flexibility.
I'm all in favour for the keypad, though. Apps can be removed by Google/Apple/whoever and some hardwired stuff tends to be more resiliant to breaking.
The price also caught me way off-guard. If I am to import this (still waiting on a list of vendors in the EU @Ingenuity1 ) I have to pay shipping plus 19% of VAT plus whatever customs say they want (usually ~10%, have to look it up) so I will end up way past $1400 for this. Mind you, the scale and breeze shield go extra. I can relate to not include the scale as this tends to be the priciest item but the breeze shield should just run an additional $10 if any? Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and order nevertheless since this now seems to be without any real alternative (AT3 plus IP trickler, but again it needs an app).
I'm all in favour for the keypad, though. Apps can be removed by Google/Apple/whoever and some hardwired stuff tends to be more resiliant to breaking.
The price also caught me way off-guard. If I am to import this (still waiting on a list of vendors in the EU @Ingenuity1 ) I have to pay shipping plus 19% of VAT plus whatever customs say they want (usually ~10%, have to look it up) so I will end up way past $1400 for this. Mind you, the scale and breeze shield go extra. I can relate to not include the scale as this tends to be the priciest item but the breeze shield should just run an additional $10 if any? Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and order nevertheless since this now seems to be without any real alternative (AT3 plus IP trickler, but again it needs an app).
That is a lot of wishful thinking. If this market has shown us anything there will be upgrades and competitors. And I'm glad there is because otherwise we wouldn't have these options. But I would consider this a $1K purchase with a life cycle of about 3-5 years.
Indeed. I don't have permission to post the video, but there are 'open source' solutions in the works and getting VERY close...guy said $125 for the parts package, print it at home (two bills if you don't have a printer).
I think I’m gonna look at just doing a manual dropper and the IP trickler. Cost seems too damn high for someone who currently loads on a chargemaster with no issues lol
Are you familiar with how Promethius works? What I said was that it's more comparable to Promethius than the v4 or ST and it is
My biggest problem with the stupid trickler and the V4 is that they constantly overthrow. I don’t give a shit if it spits a charge out every 5 seconds if over half are over throws. It’s fucking useless. I also see someone mentioning the ladder test. It’s not hard going in and changing it by .whatever you want. It would probably take 5 tries to get each separate charge correct in the first place.
Like someone said above. I don’t know how the new IP set up works yet. But just having my IP trickler it rarely over throws. I think I had one in 50 rounds and took maybe a second longer for each charge. I really hope it does well and does what the videos show.
Because everyone knows what the other two’s original videos showed. From what I remember perfect throws every time in 5 seconds or less. Maybe I’m a little off on the 5 seconds. But you know what I mean.
Like someone said above. I don’t know how the new IP set up works yet. But just having my IP trickler it rarely over throws. I think I had one in 50 rounds and took maybe a second longer for each charge. I really hope it does well and does what the videos show.
Because everyone knows what the other two’s original videos showed. From what I remember perfect throws every time in 5 seconds or less. Maybe I’m a little off on the 5 seconds. But you know what I mean.
Oh I know how it works and I swear that the IP trickler is a complete rip off of Brands design. It’s not made out of brass like the Promethius Trickler but it uses disk just like it.
Due to all the whining about the as yet undisclosed price, delivery date and other such nonsense, I have now decided to buy 2 when they become available 
I'm not trying to confuse the price. $1000 then. The price is pretty strong, but all I'm saying is that I don't think it will keep people from buying it and hitting the V4 and ST pretty hard. This is just because the IP actually works as advertised. I just don't think a $250 upcharge from the ST price is going to be prohibitive because it's comparing something that actually works to something doesn't work. (Over throw 20% or more doesn't work in my book).
If you set the slider correctly, the IP won't overthrow. It will just work. With a dropper that is easy to control and thr ability to save settings for each powder, it's going to be a legit system.
I do think if it sits on the wind screen, then that should come with it , especially for $1000 price tag, and it does seem kind of high, but I didn't comment on that either. I commented on how that price will effect sales vs ST and V4, not if the price was "fair" (whatever that means). I know Paul had a very significant amount of time in development in this whole thing and I have high confidence that he will put out a product that works as advertised and not one with shims or constant fiddling to try and get to work as advertised.
Fyi- Paul and I aren't buddies or anything though I do know him. I just had some experience with him previously and know how he goes about things and how big of a deal CS is to him, but I am not trying to give cover for a high price tag.
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I think that's a pretty extreme characterization, but you're entitled to your opinion. Hard for me to use words like "rip off" for using a disk . I guess Adam ripped off RCBS then too with a rotating tube? I think it takes much more than that to call it ripping off Brands design but it is more comparable to that than the V4 and ST, which is all I was saying.
At least you actually know what you're talking about and not just spewing bs like the guy I replied to.
The reason I say ripped off is because I believe Brand has a patten on his Trickler.
I see your point. But when they are side by side it’s the exact same thing and works the exact same way. I guess it didn’t throw up anything at the patten office.
So if not rip off it basically the same damn thing. Best way I can explain it.
When I say same thing I’m speaking about the tricklers only. Nothing else
Yeah I get what you're saying, but I feel sure that avenue has been explored already and I'm not sure how much of something like that you can patten. Of course I have no clue on patent law but I do know you can't just patent whatever, especially if it's a general way of doing something ect.... so I just don't think there's any case there to be had and I also don't know about the timeline of what patent brand got but they aren't indefinite so who knows. Paul figured out a way to make the disk work with a conventional style dropper and the AD scale, which made the trickler set much much more usable and affordable to the wider market. I mean, the Promethius is awesome, but it's also like 6k. I mean, that just can't last forever and it's been a minute now. I don't know how long it's been out but it's even some years now.
“Accurate to the kernel every time” LOLZ
Thats a fair take.
It very well may. If it works with the original from the scale and the existing aftermarket surrounds/wind screens, then no biggie. I really like mine that dude made for me with the doors that slide away from each other. It's pretty stable and easy and works well for me so I will just use that most likely depending on what the new one Paul has ultimately costs and how it functions ect.
I have that one with the doors and like it a lot.
I think his original videos had the one with the doors.
Yes, sir. I realize that IP borrowed the disk design. I get what you are saying.
There's a guy I shoot with sometimes at my club who owns a Prometheus (not leased or whatever the deal is).
The last time I saw him he said he had just got an IP trickler... and hadn't used his Prometheus since.
He said something to the effect of having to get rid of the Prometheus before getting stuck with it.
The last time I saw him he said he had just got an IP trickler... and hadn't used his Prometheus since.
He said something to the effect of having to get rid of the Prometheus before getting stuck with it.
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See, that's kind of why ~$1000 for a fancy powder dropper isn't really that crazy...
From what I understand, a Prometheus costs about the same as a new 4x4 lol.
Well no that much.
I get it. But I have one and another setup with the IP that works unbelievable is probably why I think it is a bit much.
If brand patented it he could sue for patent infringement. Which is why I’m guessing he did not patent it.
Does it say patent pending on the side of his machine?
I know a guy in the industry, who definitely has gone to the trouble to patent several of his devices
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No but if I remember correctly discussing it with him he said it was.
Now remember I said remember correctly. It’s been years since I had that talk with him. I can not remember what I did last week sometimes.
There is an patent from 2000 on what looks like the original prometheus (no disk trickler).
There is a patent application from 2021 that appears to be for the disk system on the prometheus.
Im not an attorney, but as I understand it the application doesn’t mean a patent will be granted. Also, saying or stamping “patent pending” on a site/product doest really mean anything unless the designer has actually applied for a patent and is eventually granted that patent.
To me, both the prometheus and IP disk systems look like miniature versions of the Dillon casefeed that has been around for decades.
I don't think it's necessary to investigate patent infringement just to win an internet argument. I'm very happy another option is hitting the market. If it works as it seems, I'll be a happy camper, even at the $1k price. But that's just me, I'm willing to pay for something that "just works" and is fast/accurate. If someone else wants to use something different for a lower price, that's all gravy too.
Sorry I didn’t mean it to bring up a fight. I was just making a point that I was surprised nothing was done.
I got an email last week that my Super Trickler was ready to ship after waiting 3 mos. from the order date. I politely told him I was going to cancel and go a different route (ie this new offering from IP), so it killed that one ST sale for sure.
Regarding other comments:
It will work with the original breeze shield that came with the scale, but the top is flimsy so either the Area 419 top, or the IP one-piece shield are going to be better (but not required).
I was told by Paul that the units will come ready for either the keypad OR smart phone app control.
The tricklers come with 3 disks that cover a large majority of all the powders.
It will not do pre-programmed ladder test throws, per phone conversation with the designer.
Yeah, there is no way I would let my new $995 trickler sit on the flimsy stock a&d top. A better top/shield is a must in my opinion.
The disk I think most will need is the one for ball powders. It currently isnt in the 3 disks he includes with the stand alone trickler.
If you slowed down the v4 to 15 to 20 seconds is it better? I know the supertrickler has terrible reviews. I think this and the v4 will last til the supertrickler comes out with a gen 3. But everyone seems to be coming out with more and more systems. I think if this was around $700 to $800 to brainer
