Ok guys I have been listening to The Everday sniper. Thinking about increasing my accuracy with my semi-autos and how to do it. I get I have to work on the biggest problem, me the most. However my question is if I slow the rifle down, bolt carrier, will it allow for better accuracy? Like less movement in the rifle while the bullets traveling down the barrel? I may be way off and that's ok. What do you guys think?
- Thread starter Neptune47
- Start date
Trigger, glass, barrel: not neccesarily in that order. If you have a good trigger, good glass and good barrel, your hardware is pretty much covered. After that its on you. JMHO....
I am going to guess we are talking about an AR. Assuming that.....
If you increase recoil spring weight too much or dial out too much gas, the bolt carrier won't have enough velocity to clear the rear of the mag to strip a new round. I'm not saying that it can't be done because people tune AR systems all the time. I got lucky on both of my builds that everything works well. I don't know my gas port size or anything. I just got lucky. The main thing is the dwell time. Once the gas enters the gas port, it's a race between the bullet get out of the muzzle and the bolt carrier unlocking and beginning it's rearward travel.
ForgottenWeapons or InRange did an interview with Jim Sullivan in which he stated that reducing the bolt carrier weight was a bad idea. It is an option but I would defer to the man who helped design it.
I am by no means an expert. Like you I could be completely wrong but my experience tells me make small changes and make one at a time.
I am going to guess that your recoil management and follow through will lead to good results and the gun will be more reliable. As others have said, "Don't look for a hardware solution to a software problem."
If you increase recoil spring weight too much or dial out too much gas, the bolt carrier won't have enough velocity to clear the rear of the mag to strip a new round. I'm not saying that it can't be done because people tune AR systems all the time. I got lucky on both of my builds that everything works well. I don't know my gas port size or anything. I just got lucky. The main thing is the dwell time. Once the gas enters the gas port, it's a race between the bullet get out of the muzzle and the bolt carrier unlocking and beginning it's rearward travel.
ForgottenWeapons or InRange did an interview with Jim Sullivan in which he stated that reducing the bolt carrier weight was a bad idea. It is an option but I would defer to the man who helped design it.
I am by no means an expert. Like you I could be completely wrong but my experience tells me make small changes and make one at a time.
I am going to guess that your recoil management and follow through will lead to good results and the gun will be more reliable. As others have said, "Don't look for a hardware solution to a software problem."
Definitely not looking to "cheat" they system into getting better groups. I have upgraded my trigger to a RRA 2 stage, got a new barrel and working a deal on some new glass now. What I'm talking about, now that I have read some more, is fine tuning the dwell time. I am referring to the AR both small and large frame. My AR15 is running good and reloads are working fine. My AR10 was doing well now not so much. I didn't locktite my adjustable gas block and all of a sudden it started kicking me like a horse. That's when I found the gas block. I'm looking to see if it's worth going down the rabbit hole. Trying to dial in the dwell time?
It does. I didn't tighten enough originally. Definitely could of done better on my part.
Don't feel bad. I was at the range and the guy on the next lane was obviously having trouble. He had to charge his large frame AR after each shot. He was clearly perplexed by it. I asked him if he was having trouble. He said yes and went through everything I had already gathered. What I had missed is that the bolt carrier hadn't even tried to move. He didn't even know he had an adjustable gas block. I would guess it was his first range trip with it. Turned it up. No problem. He won't forget to check it again. Probably like you won't forget to check yours. We all have to learn somehow and someway.
My experience with AR's is limited at best.
Because of this I do my best to leave the rifle tuning to the manufacturer, and use factory Upper in three of my four Uppers.
When I see questions like this one, I consider whether we AR owners might be overthinking something that's really a lot simpler. The Modern AR was designed to meet a reasonable set of goals, and has become a well developed design. As long as one accepts the limits on those goals, a factory rifle is going to meet your needs, and messing around with internals is just an odyssey into Pandora's box.
I know a lot of us like to put our personal stamp on our implements, and that's fine; but we need to know what we're doing, and it's really best if that's based on existing development knowledge. So we ask here, and other places.
I did the "Build my own Upper" shtick and I got an OK result, but I had cycling issues before I figured out how to accurately align my gas block with the barrel port. i now see that this is somewhat par for the course when cobbling an Upper together. It comes as no surprise that there are folks out there who really understand this stuff, that I'm not one of them, that their knowledge comes after a lot of experience, and that such experience costs time and money that I'll never have.
Couple of points. Messing around with internals is not the path to better accuracy, better ammunition is. Accuracy is about a good barrel and good ammo, and the rest is only really small change in the accuracy transaction.
When I built my Upper, I went by the "Cheapest is Better" mantra, but I made a deliberate point to put the necessary money up front for a decent barrel. The fact that despite my frugality, it all works great is testimony to the fact that the AR design has evolved into a very reliable set of specs.
Lesson to take away: don't mess with success.
Greg
Because of this I do my best to leave the rifle tuning to the manufacturer, and use factory Upper in three of my four Uppers.
When I see questions like this one, I consider whether we AR owners might be overthinking something that's really a lot simpler. The Modern AR was designed to meet a reasonable set of goals, and has become a well developed design. As long as one accepts the limits on those goals, a factory rifle is going to meet your needs, and messing around with internals is just an odyssey into Pandora's box.
I know a lot of us like to put our personal stamp on our implements, and that's fine; but we need to know what we're doing, and it's really best if that's based on existing development knowledge. So we ask here, and other places.
I did the "Build my own Upper" shtick and I got an OK result, but I had cycling issues before I figured out how to accurately align my gas block with the barrel port. i now see that this is somewhat par for the course when cobbling an Upper together. It comes as no surprise that there are folks out there who really understand this stuff, that I'm not one of them, that their knowledge comes after a lot of experience, and that such experience costs time and money that I'll never have.
Couple of points. Messing around with internals is not the path to better accuracy, better ammunition is. Accuracy is about a good barrel and good ammo, and the rest is only really small change in the accuracy transaction.
When I built my Upper, I went by the "Cheapest is Better" mantra, but I made a deliberate point to put the necessary money up front for a decent barrel. The fact that despite my frugality, it all works great is testimony to the fact that the AR design has evolved into a very reliable set of specs.
Lesson to take away: don't mess with success.
Greg
Greg, I'm convinced your spot on with over thinking something that should be basic and fundamental. I'm just beginning in long range shooting, with the wealth of information available, it's easy to get caught up in chasing performance through equipment. I have some years under my belt with most other disciplines of shooting. It took a while, but I learned, buy the best equipment you can afford, learn that platform, practice the fundamentals, follow the K I S S technique and mostly everything will fall into place. I - we are always looking to fix a problem that isn't there! For years I'd buy the latest and greatest shotgun, pistol, AR, then rip them apart, add a bunch of "better aftermarket parts" and try to get the platform to run. Didn't do much for my shooting, just spent a bunch of time and money chasing something I had all along. All I really want is a decent trigger and fit in any platform and if I just focus on leading with my weak hand, smooth and consistent gun mount, really look and see the bird, I'll hit more than my share of flying targets. If I grip hard, watch the front sight and stay behind the gun, my pistol shooting is pretty decent. Same thing with the ARs, good mount, trigger press and follow through I'll mostly hit what I'm after. I don't have near enough experience with long range shooting, so I can't make any proclamations, but I'm hoping the Fundamentals and basics hold true for the long range discipline. Maybe it's just me, or I really suck, but all my guns shoot better than me! So when I finally realized this, and started to try to really learn and shoot the platform I had, and stick to the basics and fundamentals, my shooting improved to the point that I was satisfied with my performance. KISS!
Mike
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned that your concern is moot. Unless you are running an over-gassed gun, the bullet will be out of the muzzle before the bolt unlocks. All of that movement you are concerned about happens after the bullet has already left the barrel.
Mike:
I started here at SH, doing articles on marksmanship basics from what I had then perceived as a Tactical angle (Black Thoughts series) back in 2001; concentrating primarily on simple tricks and tweaks to the basic factory rifle. My view was that the factory has an obligation to its customers to work out the known bugs and to deliver a functional product. That view has never changed, and is a keystone in the foundation of what I post here.
As above, we all have that urge to mess with success, which is what most of the factory rifles are, especially in the past decade; to leave our mark on a personal belonging. For those manufacturers who are willing to compete on the basic performance level, this has led to success, and has given the customer a rifle that in the vast majority of hands is capable of delivering the shooter's potential, and usually a bit more, too. I do not begrudge the folks who devise and sell their most excellent upgrades, they work and have a place for many shooters. But not all.
I modify my rifles, upgrading things like stocks (often a first item to be replaced, given my nearly 6 1/2ft height), mounts and optics (if part of a package gun), and little more. Given my own marksmanship excellence (laugh here, that's a joke), more upgrading needs to be justified. In my own case, I get what I consider to be adequate accuracy for my own needs (1/2MOA to 1MOA) at this point, and further bells and whistles hold no attraction for me. But when I do buy upgrades, I also make a serious effort to find my improvments from among the more humble offerings. Honestly, the best is way more than I either rate or can afford. I know that given a stroke of brilliance (rare these days), my rifles can shoot better, confirming my own status as the crucial limiting factor. A lot of folks decide that more is needed, buy the additional tweaks, and are very often rewarded with improvement, but not all, and not all the time. That's because sometimes the component that needs upgrading can't be bought, but can be seen in the mirror each morning.
I've said it before, when my rifle does not deliver for me, close to 30 years of experience has taught me that the great majority of times the flaw is a human error, mine and nobody else's. That includes a failure to go over the rifle seeking loose stuff, etc. After that, nine times out of ten, it's trigger manipulation and/or rifle support. I no longer shoot enough that I'm courting barrel burnout, but it remains a possibility to check when doing rifle checkups.
There is no mechanical upgrade that can fill a gap in marksmanship skill. Add to this, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...".
As a beginner, I will suggest that a good barrel and good ammunition, along with the marksmanship basics, will form the foundation of your progress and success. I am not suggesting that a factory barrel can't do this; as a beginner, a factory barrel can take the wear and tear that the development of solid skills requires, and will probably reach a point where increasing bore wear and improving skills intersect, perhaps justifying a rebarreling with a better quality replacement barrel. I will also suggest that in nearly all cases, handloaded ammunition can be load developed to attain accuracy potential that can be otherwise elusive when using only factory ammunition.
This is an old view, and is becoming less and less true as ammunition makers refine their act. But I'm still handloading nearly all of what I shoot.
Believe me, I would dearly enjoy finding factory ammunition that delivers my rifle's potential, and economically. I test new stuff, as I am preparing to do with Hornady's new Frontier 5.56 75gr HPBT Match offering. Simple test, does its accuracy equal or beat my own handloads? If not, but it's still good for 1MOA, then I'll likely buy it instead of making my own. I'm not seeking ultimate accuracy at any cost like BR shooters do so admirably. I'm looking to do these things economically, and at my age, time is at least as valuable as cost savings.
Understand that there are no shortcuts, and that the marksmanship basics need to remain always a part of each shot. Marksmanship excellence is not that hard to attain with good learning, but we must commit to the fact that on any given day, letting down one's commitment to the basics all the time is never going to deliver an improvement. In my view, it makes for wasted ammunition, and wipes out the efforts I have made to ensure that my ammunition isn't the part of a problem.
Greg
I started here at SH, doing articles on marksmanship basics from what I had then perceived as a Tactical angle (Black Thoughts series) back in 2001; concentrating primarily on simple tricks and tweaks to the basic factory rifle. My view was that the factory has an obligation to its customers to work out the known bugs and to deliver a functional product. That view has never changed, and is a keystone in the foundation of what I post here.
As above, we all have that urge to mess with success, which is what most of the factory rifles are, especially in the past decade; to leave our mark on a personal belonging. For those manufacturers who are willing to compete on the basic performance level, this has led to success, and has given the customer a rifle that in the vast majority of hands is capable of delivering the shooter's potential, and usually a bit more, too. I do not begrudge the folks who devise and sell their most excellent upgrades, they work and have a place for many shooters. But not all.
I modify my rifles, upgrading things like stocks (often a first item to be replaced, given my nearly 6 1/2ft height), mounts and optics (if part of a package gun), and little more. Given my own marksmanship excellence (laugh here, that's a joke), more upgrading needs to be justified. In my own case, I get what I consider to be adequate accuracy for my own needs (1/2MOA to 1MOA) at this point, and further bells and whistles hold no attraction for me. But when I do buy upgrades, I also make a serious effort to find my improvments from among the more humble offerings. Honestly, the best is way more than I either rate or can afford. I know that given a stroke of brilliance (rare these days), my rifles can shoot better, confirming my own status as the crucial limiting factor. A lot of folks decide that more is needed, buy the additional tweaks, and are very often rewarded with improvement, but not all, and not all the time. That's because sometimes the component that needs upgrading can't be bought, but can be seen in the mirror each morning.
I've said it before, when my rifle does not deliver for me, close to 30 years of experience has taught me that the great majority of times the flaw is a human error, mine and nobody else's. That includes a failure to go over the rifle seeking loose stuff, etc. After that, nine times out of ten, it's trigger manipulation and/or rifle support. I no longer shoot enough that I'm courting barrel burnout, but it remains a possibility to check when doing rifle checkups.
There is no mechanical upgrade that can fill a gap in marksmanship skill. Add to this, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it...".
As a beginner, I will suggest that a good barrel and good ammunition, along with the marksmanship basics, will form the foundation of your progress and success. I am not suggesting that a factory barrel can't do this; as a beginner, a factory barrel can take the wear and tear that the development of solid skills requires, and will probably reach a point where increasing bore wear and improving skills intersect, perhaps justifying a rebarreling with a better quality replacement barrel. I will also suggest that in nearly all cases, handloaded ammunition can be load developed to attain accuracy potential that can be otherwise elusive when using only factory ammunition.
This is an old view, and is becoming less and less true as ammunition makers refine their act. But I'm still handloading nearly all of what I shoot.
Believe me, I would dearly enjoy finding factory ammunition that delivers my rifle's potential, and economically. I test new stuff, as I am preparing to do with Hornady's new Frontier 5.56 75gr HPBT Match offering. Simple test, does its accuracy equal or beat my own handloads? If not, but it's still good for 1MOA, then I'll likely buy it instead of making my own. I'm not seeking ultimate accuracy at any cost like BR shooters do so admirably. I'm looking to do these things economically, and at my age, time is at least as valuable as cost savings.
Understand that there are no shortcuts, and that the marksmanship basics need to remain always a part of each shot. Marksmanship excellence is not that hard to attain with good learning, but we must commit to the fact that on any given day, letting down one's commitment to the basics all the time is never going to deliver an improvement. In my view, it makes for wasted ammunition, and wipes out the efforts I have made to ensure that my ammunition isn't the part of a problem.
Greg
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Because it does have an effect on most AR pattern rifles. Most are overgassed and most have excessive dwell time.
The gas gun has 4 major cycling impulses (to the bolt gun's single it we don't count comp effects) which are affected by several variables. Powder speed, mass of the ejecta, mass of the reciprocating mass, spring rate, gas port diameter and length from chamber and muzzle, shooter interface and actual gun mass. The 1st affects accuracy just like a bolt gun. But the 2nd is present on most gas guns and affects movement in 3D, not just a straight push. On the majority of run of the mill factory gas guns, 1 and 2 are (or can) affecting accuracy. The 3rd and 4th have no effect as it relates to accuracy, but do affect ability to see impacts and get back on the trigger sooner, and (this is the most important) if you do not have proper fundamentals, force you to rebuild your position on each shot. If you don't, yes, you will negatively affect groups.
So realize that in most sports with the AR15 pattern gun, the goal is the least amount of recoil in the shortest amount of time, and there are many ways to get there. While that does have some benefit for speed and keeping the gun flat, depending on how that is accomplished can positively, or negatively affect accuracy. My speed guns are all set up with 16" barrels while my accuracy guns have 18 to 24" barrels with a very different set of parts. If I swap operating systems, the accuracy guns open up groups and the speed guns slow down and have more movement in the sight picture.
Adjustable gas is the "cheat" that gives you softer recoil and still maintains accuracy by slowing the system down. Personally, I do not like adjustable gas for maintenance and reliability reasons. That said, on the three AR pattern guns that needed it, I use Superlative Arms gas blocks. They are very rugged, don't change over time and give me the ability to tune the impulses to meet my goals. This slowing the system down through reduced gas volume creates a mitigating effect when the fundamentals are not correct. I look at gas systems in the same way as the trigger. A better trigger DOES NOT improve mechanical accuracy. But it does help you have better trigger control and if you do not have a perfect trigger press, does not transfer fundamental errors to the gun. Granted the trigger fundamentals are transferred at the point the sear is releasing while positional fundamentals and gas system cycling forces occur while the bullet is traveling through and for several feet past the end of the barrel.
MarkCO provides outstanding perspective. I crave such additional expertise like a Vampire craves blood. This is what I meant when I said my experience with AR's is limited at best.
Mike; I have started books a couple of times, and the outcome is pretty consistent. Usually in the final stage where the mandatory proofreading occurs, I find myself reading other books that already do what I endeavor, only a ton better. Duplication may be flattery, but plagiarism can get you in deep doodoo.
For about a decade in the late 1990's and early 2000's, I made my living as a self employed systems documentor, tasked with making complex proprietary computer programs easier to use for a user audience with a median 9th grade education. Condense and simplify. As a writer, I have a huge respect for intellectual property, especially other folks' intellectual property. Mine is free to all; I already have an OK income. I prefer the SH format.
For anybody looking to gain a professional's insight into LR shooting, I recommend Cleckner. He wrote the book I wish I could have written. I have already bought and given his book to over a half dozen of my friends who take shooting seriously and want to get good at LR.
Greg
Mike; I have started books a couple of times, and the outcome is pretty consistent. Usually in the final stage where the mandatory proofreading occurs, I find myself reading other books that already do what I endeavor, only a ton better. Duplication may be flattery, but plagiarism can get you in deep doodoo.
For about a decade in the late 1990's and early 2000's, I made my living as a self employed systems documentor, tasked with making complex proprietary computer programs easier to use for a user audience with a median 9th grade education. Condense and simplify. As a writer, I have a huge respect for intellectual property, especially other folks' intellectual property. Mine is free to all; I already have an OK income. I prefer the SH format.
For anybody looking to gain a professional's insight into LR shooting, I recommend Cleckner. He wrote the book I wish I could have written. I have already bought and given his book to over a half dozen of my friends who take shooting seriously and want to get good at LR.
Greg
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Mr. Cleckner's book has been invaluable. It has a place on my coffee table. Probably been through it four or five times already!
To paraphrase ...Lost Ark, you're looking in the right place.
Greg
Greg
Sounds like you are mixing two different things. I'm speaking to isolating the inherent accuracy of the gun. You are adding in how the recoil pulse affects the shooting position and rebuilding that to make a quick follow-up shot. These are two different scenarios. I agree that my precision slow fire AR and those built to shoot quickly are very different arms. But I'd need to see evidence that a properly tuned AR is reciprocating the bolt carrier while the bullet is still in the barrel, as the OP suggests.
My precision AR shoots <.5MOA at 100 with 60gr VMAX handloads. It's a heavy build 22" barrel. Just sighted in the lightweight build for my wife today, lower quality barrel, with 55gr VMAX handloads it's still <1MOA. What accuracy increase are we seeking here by messing with the parts in the action? These aren't benchrest or F-class guns. When I have a semi auto shooting at the high end of what people expect for a good factory bolt action I'm pretty happy.
Not mixing them, just explaining them. Just like a good shooter can show changes in group location based on technique, so too can a good shooter do the same thing by changing around internal parts, altering dwell time and changing powder speed with a gas gun. Even gas tube alignment can affect accuracy.
What happens after the recoil pulse can be as important as what happens during it. Recovery has to be complete. I confirm my position as the first segment of my firing sequence. The good folks out on Garand Road actually trained us to deliberately pull our 45's back down during rapid fire, to give ourselves more time to make the following shot
One cannot build a beautiful tower without a good foundation.
Greg
One cannot build a beautiful tower without a good foundation.
Greg
I appreciat e everyone's replys first and foremost. I think maybe my question/ statement may have been vague at best. Mostly what I am running into is my Ar10 that is kicking me like a mule. I have a adjustable gas block that helps when I put in the set screw to lock it in place, yet again me as the problem, but I am looking to slow down the dwell to be able to stay on target and be able to work with the gun. It shoots good now. My groups very depending on me, from .7 " but norm is just over an inch. Basically I'm looking for something to "soften" the recoil impulse. Thanks again guys.
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It sounds like you need to add a muzzle brake or shoot .223 more than worry about monkeying with the "dwell time" of a .308...Sounds like you are just dealing with recoil and that just comes with shooting a 308.
You didn't say, or I didn't see it what caliber but that aside, tuning the recoil pulse of an AR will most definitely improve your shooting for many reasons. I wouldn't dwell on dwell time (see what I did there) mostly because this is only controlled with your length of gas tube and as such you cannot really change it unless you re-barrel.
I would just focus on making the recoil pulse comfortable. As others have implied a heavier spring will slow down the carrier and thus improve the feel of the recoli pulse,the downside is it may require more gas to function properly. if you tell us what caliber we can suggest a weight of buffer. For example in my 6.5 creedmoor I use a H2 JP SCS which is heavy, I use an AGB, start at about one turn open, shoot one round in a magazine and ensure the carrier locks back, if not, continue opening one click at a time until it does, after that I open one more detent or 1/8 turn to ensure reliability and it shoots like a 22 cal.
I would just focus on making the recoil pulse comfortable. As others have implied a heavier spring will slow down the carrier and thus improve the feel of the recoli pulse,the downside is it may require more gas to function properly. if you tell us what caliber we can suggest a weight of buffer. For example in my 6.5 creedmoor I use a H2 JP SCS which is heavy, I use an AGB, start at about one turn open, shoot one round in a magazine and ensure the carrier locks back, if not, continue opening one click at a time until it does, after that I open one more detent or 1/8 turn to ensure reliability and it shoots like a 22 cal.
My precision AR's are a pair of Stag Model 6 Super Varminters; one a fully stock factory gun, the other a stock factory kit with a fully assembled upper. 5.56 chambered, 24" Stainless Bull Barrels, otherwise the Stag Two-Stage trigger, and we're out of the woods, features-wise.
They have always performed for me, and my load is Starline or Winchester Brass, CCI BR-4 Primer, HDY 75gr HPBT-Match Bullet, and 23.5gr/23.7gr of Varget.
It's hard to judge 600yd accuracy since I've only ever gotten to see that through spotting scopes on F T/R targets that are pasted up right afterward, but the Stag 100yd accuracy guarantee of 1/2MOA at 100yd with factory match ammo was proven a few times using PPU/Prvi-Partizan 75gr HPBT Match. At 600yd, all shots were 9's or better, mostly better, off bipods (My then-20 y/o Granddaughter outshot me with what soon became her Stag 6, hence my identical kit gun build). They had Tasco 6-24x42's then, and now use Mueller 8-32x44's.
Other uppers have joined ranks; a 16" 1:7" Stag Barreled NY Compliant Franken-AR, a 16" 1:7" AR Stoner lightweight Upper, a CMMG 16" 1:9" Bull WASP, an AR Stoner 20" 1:8" heavy 6.5 Grendel factory Upper, and a 24" 1:8" heavy 6.5 Grendel Sporter Upper build using all AR Stoner parts, matching handguard, and 24" barrel.
The 223/5.56's have all been shot, the Grendels have not, yet.
Greg
They have always performed for me, and my load is Starline or Winchester Brass, CCI BR-4 Primer, HDY 75gr HPBT-Match Bullet, and 23.5gr/23.7gr of Varget.
It's hard to judge 600yd accuracy since I've only ever gotten to see that through spotting scopes on F T/R targets that are pasted up right afterward, but the Stag 100yd accuracy guarantee of 1/2MOA at 100yd with factory match ammo was proven a few times using PPU/Prvi-Partizan 75gr HPBT Match. At 600yd, all shots were 9's or better, mostly better, off bipods (My then-20 y/o Granddaughter outshot me with what soon became her Stag 6, hence my identical kit gun build). They had Tasco 6-24x42's then, and now use Mueller 8-32x44's.
Other uppers have joined ranks; a 16" 1:7" Stag Barreled NY Compliant Franken-AR, a 16" 1:7" AR Stoner lightweight Upper, a CMMG 16" 1:9" Bull WASP, an AR Stoner 20" 1:8" heavy 6.5 Grendel factory Upper, and a 24" 1:8" heavy 6.5 Grendel Sporter Upper build using all AR Stoner parts, matching handguard, and 24" barrel.
The 223/5.56's have all been shot, the Grendels have not, yet.
Greg
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Reducing recoil is a combination of reducing the reciprocating mass (bcg/buffer) and reducing the gas entering the system. Competition shooters do this in conjunction. Lighter buffer, lighter bcg, reduced gas, low power ammo.
99% of people are content with reducing recoil by limiting the gas entering the system. (ala adjustable gas block)
I may have completely misinterpreted your statement about your gas block, but there are two screws on most adjustable gas blocks. One is a set screw to secure the gas block to the barrel, the other being the tiny adjustment screw (next to the gas tube) that adjusts the amount of gas. This is the one you want to fiddle with.
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If you've already completely closed off your gas block (bolt doesn't cycle anymore) and the recoil is still overwhelming, choose a different caliber or reintroduce gas and begin playing with lighter BCG/buffer weights and spring combinations. You can re-introduce gas and keep the same setup, which would help, but if you're looking for major gains you'll need the lighweight combinations.
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You had me till right here.
I was just going to let it go when I read it earlier lol.
I tried to, I really did.
The sad part is, I read that, then my brain was like "wut?". So I reread it, formulated a response in my mind, then decided it wasn't worth the effort.
I can see why that sounds insane because it took me 3 re-reads to even understand what the hell I wrote. The point I was making is that upon re-introduction of the gas, you could add a lighter bcg/buffer and the spring will soak up a bit of the recoil.
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Thanks, just ordered the book.
I have a varmint RRA heavy 24" barrel in 223, 1/2" or smaller groups are not a challenge. I proceeded to jump into 308 with a Remington R25. Replaced barrel with a Krieger M110, they asked for the bolt for optimum fit, Geiselle trigger, Superlative adjustable gas block, JP silent spring, Badger Ordnance FTE brake, custom reloads... best "I" can consistently group is ~5/8 of an inch.
I am the weakest link.
I have a varmint RRA heavy 24" barrel in 223, 1/2" or smaller groups are not a challenge. I proceeded to jump into 308 with a Remington R25. Replaced barrel with a Krieger M110, they asked for the bolt for optimum fit, Geiselle trigger, Superlative adjustable gas block, JP silent spring, Badger Ordnance FTE brake, custom reloads... best "I" can consistently group is ~5/8 of an inch.
I am the weakest link.
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