Did no one else see Matt’s video the other day cleaning the PRS barricade in like 43 seconds with no bag in 45* temp and 15 mph winds? Lol
PRS Talk Innovation killing the spirit?
- Thread starter jcwarrior87
- Start date
Hey I just have a ball getting out and shooting our local 1 day matches. Good people, fun shooting and all good. I shoot production, 1500 in rifle 900 in scope and its mental errors that get me. Our top shooters are all great to be with and gear? I try to keep it to minimum. I have been around enough to know what I have accomplished and where I could be better (not talking just shooting) so not "intimidated" by gear or "gear heads". Its just fun and I shoot OK, am second generation of 3 generation of "shooters". Damn I like PRS.
I’d like to hear from someone that wasn’t in the top 50 that thinks ancillary equipment is what’s holding them back. Because I doubt some specific piece of gear beyond a better cartridge than my 308 would make me better than just practice.
It appears that a dead Horse has many more lives than a Cat. Most of the drama lately has been over tripods. Odd how quite a few people think tripods are some new innovative device or gadget. I've been shooting in PRS style matches for roughly ten years now, and have hauled around a tripod more often than not in almost every match over those ten years, and I wasn't the only person out there with one in the early days. In fact, I have practiced shooting off of tripods before I ever shot my first PRS match. It's funny how people condemn something that they don't use, or see no purpose in. Granted, the innovation in the way it's employed, utilitzed, or used outside of how people originally used tripods has greatly been expanded beyond anyone's imagination throughout the years.
Look at history, tripods have been used in the military, law enforcement, and hunting longer than many recognize, or will admit to. Yet, there are those in the sport that think it's some new gadget, and should be restricted or regulated.
In my opinion, many of the new "Gadgets" are a direct result of some of the silly things that match directors are having people shoot off of. No longer does this sport consist of Tactical or Practical shooting senerios, like shooting off of roof tops, from inside a vehicle, or from natural terrain. Instead, it has evolved into matches having circus type props, for example where you shoot through a plastic tube that you can barely fit your rifle into, that is hung by springs. Why are we seeing so many unrealistic shooting senerios in matches today? Wish someone could explain that? I find it impractical to shoot from these type of senerios, would someone take a shot like this in real life? Until things change, we will continue to see people bring out new products, or be innovative in how they shoot or what they use on these type of stages.
Honestly, I think the answer is to have the sport try to regulate how courses of fire are designed in these matches. As many have stated in other threads, and in this one, it could be something as simple as designing a stage that would greatly hinder your deployment of equipment. I'm not a fan of restricting gear. I think most people who have a mindset to gear restrictions, are those who don't normally engage in these particular type of matches, or come from a background of other shooting sports where equipment was severely limited, such as Service Rifle. PR has traditionally been a sport that never limited gear, so they could make it as realistic as you would find in Tactical or Practical (or as we used to say in the Military, "Real World") senerios, where there are no rules.
Look at history, tripods have been used in the military, law enforcement, and hunting longer than many recognize, or will admit to. Yet, there are those in the sport that think it's some new gadget, and should be restricted or regulated.
In my opinion, many of the new "Gadgets" are a direct result of some of the silly things that match directors are having people shoot off of. No longer does this sport consist of Tactical or Practical shooting senerios, like shooting off of roof tops, from inside a vehicle, or from natural terrain. Instead, it has evolved into matches having circus type props, for example where you shoot through a plastic tube that you can barely fit your rifle into, that is hung by springs. Why are we seeing so many unrealistic shooting senerios in matches today? Wish someone could explain that? I find it impractical to shoot from these type of senerios, would someone take a shot like this in real life? Until things change, we will continue to see people bring out new products, or be innovative in how they shoot or what they use on these type of stages.
Honestly, I think the answer is to have the sport try to regulate how courses of fire are designed in these matches. As many have stated in other threads, and in this one, it could be something as simple as designing a stage that would greatly hinder your deployment of equipment. I'm not a fan of restricting gear. I think most people who have a mindset to gear restrictions, are those who don't normally engage in these particular type of matches, or come from a background of other shooting sports where equipment was severely limited, such as Service Rifle. PR has traditionally been a sport that never limited gear, so they could make it as realistic as you would find in Tactical or Practical (or as we used to say in the Military, "Real World") senerios, where there are no rules.
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Another thing I'd like to mention. There are some types of gear used that I see is somewhat regional. For example in relationship to hunting senerios, there are some parts of the country where the vegetation is so dense, shots are often taken from tree stands, and rarely beyond 200-yards. Then there are those places that are very arid, flat, with little to no vegetation, and shots, can be easily taken prone shooting off the ground with a bipod or off your pack.
Here in the Rocky Mountains we have such a wide mix of terrain such as, tall grass, sage brush, boulder fields, etc. where using a tripod in this type of terrain is very common.
The two NRL matches I helped set up, we made it a point to design stages where the shooter was in a natural field environment. And on a couple stages to be successful (or competitive), they would need to shoot using a tripod or shooting sticks. We even had a couple shooters use the real long bipod leg extensions (which originated from hunting). Sharing gear was allowed, and encouraged.
We even had a couple loaner tripods available to use at those stages.
Here in the Rocky Mountains we have such a wide mix of terrain such as, tall grass, sage brush, boulder fields, etc. where using a tripod in this type of terrain is very common.
The two NRL matches I helped set up, we made it a point to design stages where the shooter was in a natural field environment. And on a couple stages to be successful (or competitive), they would need to shoot using a tripod or shooting sticks. We even had a couple shooters use the real long bipod leg extensions (which originated from hunting). Sharing gear was allowed, and encouraged.
We even had a couple loaner tripods available to use at those stages.
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Reese,
No comment on you, you are one of the good guys, but the sad part is - Who cares? For me, the motivation for competition has long since passed. Some of the best people I know are PNW competitive shooters. I could name drop, but I will not. I feel blessed when I get some time to socialize with, and compete against them. I always learn something (because they are kicking my butt). More and more I find myself longing for those early days of the Findlay Cup and The Field Shooters Challenges. I really don’t know if I care that the sport grows. I am not sure that is my goal. What does that accomplish? I do care that the skills of long range marksmanship are spread to as many as care to adopt them. We live in a period of history that will be judged. I find the focus on PRS/NRL standings to be a distraction at most.
No comment on you, you are one of the good guys, but the sad part is - Who cares? For me, the motivation for competition has long since passed. Some of the best people I know are PNW competitive shooters. I could name drop, but I will not. I feel blessed when I get some time to socialize with, and compete against them. I always learn something (because they are kicking my butt). More and more I find myself longing for those early days of the Findlay Cup and The Field Shooters Challenges. I really don’t know if I care that the sport grows. I am not sure that is my goal. What does that accomplish? I do care that the skills of long range marksmanship are spread to as many as care to adopt them. We live in a period of history that will be judged. I find the focus on PRS/NRL standings to be a distraction at most.
Somewhat devil’s advocate here. But also a bit serious as well.
I 100% agree that the best shooters NOW started where the beginners did and where some still do.
But, we are really hitting an accelerated change in gear. Most people who are currently at the top started with lighter rifles, non 6 cartridges, not using a ton of bags, triggers that weren’t under a pound, etc etc.
The top shooters of today had zero choice except to learn fundamentals.
Now, you’re starting to see more and more people start out with a 20lb rifle and an 8oz trigger.
So, the question will be, will the availability of all this gear make it easier for shooters to shortcut around the fundamentals?
I seriously heard this line (or close to it) in a podcast recently:
“When I switched from my big boy 6creed to a .223, I could see every impact and trace. So I’m switching to something like 6 dasher to help with recoil”
We’re moving in the direction where a 6.5 and 6creed are considered “big boy” cartridges.
I need to take more time to see where I’m going with this line of thought. But basically, things are much different with new shooters now than they were 5-10yrs ago.
Here’s and idea to throw in a match at some point. It’ll show you if the gear is really helping that much.
PRS barricade, tank trap, roof, or tires. Something common and not gimmicky. 400 yds. 2 moa plate, berm required.
Stage supplied m24/m40 clone, .308. Adjustable cheek. Like a 14lb rifle. You get to adjust the check. 2.5lb trigger.
One bag only, no tripod.
The dope will be off slightly. Enough to miss and still stay in the FOV.
Have to spot your miss and make correction for the rest of the stage.
PRS barricade, tank trap, roof, or tires. Something common and not gimmicky. 400 yds. 2 moa plate, berm required.
Stage supplied m24/m40 clone, .308. Adjustable cheek. Like a 14lb rifle. You get to adjust the check. 2.5lb trigger.
One bag only, no tripod.
The dope will be off slightly. Enough to miss and still stay in the FOV.
Have to spot your miss and make correction for the rest of the stage.
When I started shooting no one was winning with any of that...they weren’t 308s, weren’t 8lbs, had light jewel triggers, and they had tac packs and pump pillows
And the new shooters and ones not winning were complaining all the same...ain’t nothin changed
It doesn’t matter what point you jump into something, there’s always gunna be a spectrum
No rifle is going to save you from shitty fundamentals. It might mask them a little bit, but the guy with better fundamentals is still going to win 99% of the time.
Squad A shows up to the stage, gets the brief. Shooter 1 volunteers to be dope bitch, everyone else jumps on spotters. Shooter 1 announces he's going to hold dead center and send it, spots the miss, and calls out the correction he needs. All of the other shooters on glass see the same thing. Everyone else now shoots the stage, and the correction for the stage gun is no longer a mystery, so many of them clean it. Squad B either gets the info from A, or repeats the same process. Squad D doesn't get the memo, and doesn't think about how Squad A did it. They later hear how Squad A 'gamed' the stage, and complains.
I don’t agree with everything posted here, or everything HMFIC says, but I do think the way he harps on fundamentals and how he instructs students to become better marksmen is 100% spot on. Seems to me that the guys who win everything have the best fundamentals: the most consistent positioning, solid wind calls, the steadiest trigger squeeeeeeeze, and none of that comes from gear. I have all the gear and I don’t use most of it because I shoot better when I’m not fumbling with it, and have time to concentrate on my wind calls and breaking solid shots. So I guess I’m the exception.
If I want to move from the middle of the pack to the front I know exactly what I have to do (it has ZERO to do with gear); about another ten to fifteen thousand rounds down range per season. Guess what? This is only a hobby for me, and I simply don't have the time to practice as much as I would have to be consistently in the top ten. In order for that to be anything buy fantasy I'd have to have the range be ten minutes from my house, or be able to shoot out of my back porch. In other words, living in the suburbs, it IS pure fantasy.
I enjoy the hell out of two day PRS matches. I look forward to them like Christmas. But, I'm there for me, not for prizes, or under some delusion that I can win. I seem to pick up a few shots every time. In twenty or thirty years I should be consistently winning.
If I want to move from the middle of the pack to the front I know exactly what I have to do (it has ZERO to do with gear); about another ten to fifteen thousand rounds down range per season. Guess what? This is only a hobby for me, and I simply don't have the time to practice as much as I would have to be consistently in the top ten. In order for that to be anything buy fantasy I'd have to have the range be ten minutes from my house, or be able to shoot out of my back porch. In other words, living in the suburbs, it IS pure fantasy.
I enjoy the hell out of two day PRS matches. I look forward to them like Christmas. But, I'm there for me, not for prizes, or under some delusion that I can win. I seem to pick up a few shots every time. In twenty or thirty years I should be consistently winning.
Several years ago the USGA thought about changing the dimple pattern on golf balls so that they would fly shorter distances. The argument from some was that shorter golf courses were becoming obsolete due to golfers becoming stronger and more athletic, along with golf Club technology advancements and better golf balls that simply flew further.
After much speculation one of the main reasons they did not make the changes is because it would adversely affect 99% of recreational golfers who do enjoy seeing their drives go 250 yards. If you penalize the masses in an effort to hold back the top 1%, you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot every time.
Most new guys and middle of the Packers, will always compete at that level. Natural talent, vision, are huge factors. However, ability and willingness to practice, will allow for some upward and downward mobility. But if you make things harder on the guys that are paying match fees and buying custom rifles, they will not enjoy the sport. If less people are shooting PRS and NRL, there will be less sponsorship and lower match participation.
While I can understand the gear race criticism, I also think if you want the sport to grow, you have to concede the simple truth that people enjoy hitting targets. The more targets they hit the more fun most folks have. That is what will bring them to the next match. Which means all you one baggers, 308 shooters, and fellows with a bag of rice also have a match to shoot. It's a classic greater good scenario, and we all have far more in common than not, irregardless of what we decide to attach to a rifle.
I got my new shiny from Gray Ops yesterday, and it's bad ass! Lol
Dan
After much speculation one of the main reasons they did not make the changes is because it would adversely affect 99% of recreational golfers who do enjoy seeing their drives go 250 yards. If you penalize the masses in an effort to hold back the top 1%, you're going to be shooting yourself in the foot every time.
Most new guys and middle of the Packers, will always compete at that level. Natural talent, vision, are huge factors. However, ability and willingness to practice, will allow for some upward and downward mobility. But if you make things harder on the guys that are paying match fees and buying custom rifles, they will not enjoy the sport. If less people are shooting PRS and NRL, there will be less sponsorship and lower match participation.
While I can understand the gear race criticism, I also think if you want the sport to grow, you have to concede the simple truth that people enjoy hitting targets. The more targets they hit the more fun most folks have. That is what will bring them to the next match. Which means all you one baggers, 308 shooters, and fellows with a bag of rice also have a match to shoot. It's a classic greater good scenario, and we all have far more in common than not, irregardless of what we decide to attach to a rifle.
I got my new shiny from Gray Ops yesterday, and it's bad ass! Lol
Dan
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I have no skin in the game, and certainly welcome innovation from both the product/gear side and the cartridge/bullet/ballistic side. I have no issues with Dave's tac-table and wish his company all the best.
But the term "barricade benchrest" is becoming a little too on the nose to me. It isn't hard to see that a 6mm BR in a weight-added chassis at 25#, with a 6" wide flat forend plate basically IS a benchrest rifle.
Case in point:
I'm not saying there's a "solution" to the current state of competition, or that there even needs to be. Just that things have been evolving in a way that make me chuckle a bit when I still hear how people think PRS is so different from F-Class or Benchrest.
But the term "barricade benchrest" is becoming a little too on the nose to me. It isn't hard to see that a 6mm BR in a weight-added chassis at 25#, with a 6" wide flat forend plate basically IS a benchrest rifle.
Case in point:
I'm not saying there's a "solution" to the current state of competition, or that there even needs to be. Just that things have been evolving in a way that make me chuckle a bit when I still hear how people think PRS is so different from F-Class or Benchrest.
The flip side to that is what happens when the MD makes you shoot through a small port in a barricade - where that big-ass stock doesn't fit? Or they make you shoot a stage offhand with only a sling?
A good course of fire will mitigate most of the gear race silliness people complain about. Most matches I have shot and RO'd have been designed for exactly that - while they didn't limit your gear usage, the stages were designed in such a way that hauling a bunch of gear through the stage was more likely to hurt than help. (Again, see the rock pile at Altus. Anyone that's shot that thing knows how fast it goes downhill when you try to use a pile of gear.)
I agree with you, and I like that (in general) most MDs will throw enough different things at you that you can't excel with only one tool in the tool box, gear-wise or skill-wise.
However, I think the "gear race" that we all speak of has to do with this very thing. If you want to shoot your benchrest barricade rig, then you just pull off your $260 clamp-on tac-table from your $1500 tripod and clamp it to your chassis. Port hole stage? Just take the tac-table off. Offhand stage? Un-bolt the weight kit. Things are modular, which is cool, but it means having a dedicated piece of gear for every conceivable match situation is possible. I don't think that should be restricted, but I believe people will acquire unnecessary gear and always be chasing that next new shiny thing.
However, I think the "gear race" that we all speak of has to do with this very thing. If you want to shoot your benchrest barricade rig, then you just pull off your $260 clamp-on tac-table from your $1500 tripod and clamp it to your chassis. Port hole stage? Just take the tac-table off. Offhand stage? Un-bolt the weight kit. Things are modular, which is cool, but it means having a dedicated piece of gear for every conceivable match situation is possible. I don't think that should be restricted, but I believe people will acquire unnecessary gear and always be chasing that next new shiny thing.
ive been to matches that did this...there were ~40 people in open and 2 or 3 people in the other 2 classes each and the people in the other 2 classes finished damn near last lol
they got their table walks tho
You'd have more people shooting Production or Tac solely in the hunt for a prize table pull, and then people would complain about gaming classes to get prizes - the same kind of thing I have heard people complain about with USPSA. Let the MDs run their prize table how they choose (Raffle, random, by overall finish, etc) and let the shooters vote with their feet and wallets.
i feel similar...i dont like the idea of taking things on and off...hard to regulate though because youll have some people arguing over what "standard configuration" is
personally my bipod and sling rarely leave my rifle...but i have had to remove my bipod before to fit in tiny port holes, someone could argue i cant take it off or once i do, it stays off? kinda a tough spot
That's why I like the chassis I run - the spigot is closer to the bore than the bottom of the handguard, so the bipod clears small portholes a lot easier than most rigs.
Does this count as keeping the spirit? I have been designing a comp bag for months and am finally happy with one after tossing 15 of them on a shelf. 9x7x3 ish and probably around or under 5 LBS. Just finished it up and am very happy with it. Grippy on both sides and grabs the gun and the obstacle like a cat clinging to a tree. My unique fill used at an even greater ratio makes it dense and solid. Small enough to fit into smaller obstacles or to use as a rear bag. I have never used any other comp bags to compare it to but I am very impressed with what it has done so far. The straps are more to make it move with you than to aid in stability, though they do kind of pinch the grippy surface against the rifle. Who want's to use one at their next match!?
looks good and usable
FTW Gear (Rifles Only made a similar rectangle shaped bag a few years ago), it didnt work well for me size and shape wise...i shoot prone a lot higher than most and it just wasnt high enough unless stood on end and then it wanted to collapse
also is it tall enough to clear your mag on obstacles that are longer and you cant shoot hanging off the rear and still be stable stood on its end
if your fill can handle those issues, a good test will be how good of surface it provides on hard slanted poles/barricades and how well does it stay and stabilize on narrow barricades compared to a game changers/fortune cookie/solo sac/udder/etc
Those are great questions that will aid in testing!
I haven’t tested on it’s end yet. But my thought was you could slide your bipod back and set the folded up bipod on the bag if you needed more height. You could also likely set the bag on end and reach forward and squeeze the locking fill and get more height under the front of the gun if you needed it. I haven’t tried that yet but knowing how the fill works it should be fairly easy. I’ll try that later today and see how it works.
It does great on smaller obstacles. The fill is dense kind of like sand but unlike sand it will easily form to whatever’s under it and then the grippy surface kind of grabs on and locks it on there. I haven’t tested it on anything angled yet but I can’t imagine anything else working better as a grippy as this thing is.
I’ll definitely test The on end and configuration and see what happens. I am thinking you could also wrap one of the straps backwards around the bag to keep it from expanding and keep it taller on its end if you needed to.
Great insight I appreciate it!
yea the material will definitely help a lot with grip
i have an original game changer and a buddy made a metal barricade that's sloped about 35-45* and it slides right down it
i also have a fortune cookie that has a strip of anti skid material in the groove and it locks right up on it...the grippy material was a good choice
i have an original game changer and a buddy made a metal barricade that's sloped about 35-45* and it slides right down it
i also have a fortune cookie that has a strip of anti skid material in the groove and it locks right up on it...the grippy material was a good choice
Yeah my aim is to make a compact Comp bag that can be as effective as the larger bags. I think the sticky/dense fill and the grippy material work together to accomplish that pretty well!
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Clearly you haven’t been looking at shooters with bad fundamentals hitting targets.
There’s videos of guys using barricade stops and hitting targets without even being behind the optic.
There’s zero fundamentals involved in standing beside the rifle and making impacts without being behind the optic.
Also, the above scenario is easy. You change the windage and elevation dope a little for each shooter. Can’t be the dope bitch if your dope was high right and the next guy is low left.
How many people are actually using that extreme variety of free recoil in matches? Of those actually doing it in matches (instead of just making videos about it), how many are actually being competitive with it? I can tell you that from everything I have seen, the answer has been "very few" followed by "almost none".
As for changing the dope on every shooter, you're now putting even greater burden on the RO and opening another avenue for a shooter to claim unfair situation "Well, when Guy A shot it, it was only .2 off, when I did it was 1.2 off!"
IMO, one of the biggest responsibilities when designing the COF of a match, is ensuring that every shooter gets a fair shake at the stage. No variable speeds on the mover, no putting stages straight into the sunrise when you start the match 10 minutes after said sunrise, etc. Obviously, environmental conditions will vary naturally between shooters, but don't induce a condition that can help some shooters while screwing others. Forcing use of a stage gun where everyone's getting a different, screwed up set of data to work off of is something to be avoided, not only due to the potentially unfairness of it, but also because it will cause shooters to complain. If I'm going to make shotoers complain about my COF, it's going to be because I threw a challenge at them they weren't expecting or weren't ready for, not because they feel like they got an unfair situation on a stage I could have avoided.
ive also seen guys try to use barricade blocks and not have them set right or the prop is a little off and it ruins their whole stage
the difference between the good shooters and the rest is they know what to use, when and how/when they need to compromise what to score hits
is the goal of matches now to look proper? i always thought it was to score the most hits...maybe i been doin it wrong
the difference between the good shooters and the rest is they know what to use, when and how/when they need to compromise what to score hits
is the goal of matches now to look proper? i always thought it was to score the most hits...maybe i been doin it wrong
Not gonna lie, I've designed stages specifically to screw with people's expecations like this. Making them shoot from a barricade that's well off level, is overly skinny, or that they don't get to examine ahead of time will all limit the kind of shenanigans people try.
I really want to run a match where half of the match is long format, fairly high (20ish round) round count, long time limit stages that you don't get to see most of your positions or targets ahead of time, and you don't get to ask your buddy in front of you what he did - and you have to complete the entire stage with all of your gear, pack included.
same here, ive done similar in a variety of ways...my favorite is making a stage and saying you "only have to touch the prop" so guys try to go prone, but setting the target so prone you have terrain in the way lol
blind stage matches are my favorite idea, just harder to run
blind stage matches are my favorite idea, just harder to run
The way I'd do it is half the match (morning of a 1-day, or day 1 of a 2 day) would be standard PRS stages, then the second half of the match would be 2-4 long format stages. Split the squads out evenly and they run the stage in a pre-set order, with shooters started a set amount of time apart (say, 2 minutes). You have 3-5 stations along the route for each big stage, and if the shooter behind you catches up while you're finishing a station, then you have to grab your gear and get out immediately - but you keep earned points for that station. Keep it to 30ish shooters per stage with 2m intervals, and you'd be rotating every 60-90 minutes, roughly equivalent to normal stages. Figure 5-6 minutes to complete the entire stage with 15-20 rounds of rifle needed to complete it, you'd get barrels hot but not overly so (due to time spread between stations as shooters moved), and keep people from being able to share UKD answers, wind calls, or even mixing in KIMS targets.
Not throwing rocks, but how many of those BR guys could even walk the 20 or so stages carrying JUST their rifle?
How can you give first shot to first in each class? Check your math...
Point is, this is the beginning of innovation for most of this. It’s only been within the last few years much of these things come out. Things are only going to get “better” from here and will possibly start eroding a focus on fundamentals.
If you take a brand new shooter, give them a light recoiling 25lb 6mm and that’s all they shoot on, and you never show them what proper/improper recoil management does for a larger rifle......they will likely still shoot it just fine as long as sight picture and trigger squeeze is good.
Same thing for a light trigger.
I’ve seen guys go from 5/6 out of 8 on prs barricade to cleaning it, just from barricade stops.
Give someone a glock (or any striker fire) handgun. Then give the same shooter an HK with LEM trigger. The guys will good fundamentals will shoot both very well. But I promise you, the other guy will be able to shoot fairly well with the striker fire and will do horrible with the LEM.
Case in point, Texas DPS just switched their pistols from 357sig to 9mm.
They have seen a HUGE increase in their overall qualification scores just from the change in cartridge and no change in instruction.
Will the best shooters still win? Yes. Does gear help a shitty shooter become a not so shitty shooter/almost a good shooter......yes it can.
I think your last line here says it all. I never said that gear didn't make things easier for the new shooter - but gear isn't going to change who is at the top of the scoreboard, just like you said. The entire point people try to make when screaming that the PRS is a never ending gear race is that they think they can't be competitive without mountains of widgets and doo-dads, when it's really not going to affect the standings worth a damn.
To be blunt, who cares if all the do-dads and gadgets get a shooter from lower mid-pack to upper mid pack?
And the other thing to me that invalidates some of the gear race comments is that most often gear is so extensively shared. I think half the squad used my game changer at the last match.
And the other thing to me that invalidates some of the gear race comments is that most often gear is so extensively shared. I think half the squad used my game changer at the last match.
Ouch. We need a Ryan Hey meme or something for that one...
lolololol
@morganlamprecht plenty of height to shoot a flat surface. 1st is 10 round 338LM mag woth about an inch or a little more clearance, 2nd is 10 round AI 7.62mag with 2” or more clearance, chassis is bare because the barrel is being threaded.
The fill kind of holds itself up because it doesn’t slip on itself very easily. You can def reach up and squeeze it like a rear bag to get more height. Thanks for the insight!
The fill kind of holds itself up because it doesn’t slip on itself very easily. You can def reach up and squeeze it like a rear bag to get more height. Thanks for the insight!
Nice, looks good
Now the real test is side by side against the others, never ending bag wars Lol
Now the real test is side by side against the others, never ending bag wars Lol
I think it will hold its own! If you needed more height you could go under the bipod. Not great with a spigot but on an arca where you could slide it back to the balance point it would be legit. That’s almost 4”. I’ve got one made up that I am going to send out for testing. I’ll send it your way once I get it back if you want.
I didn't see if but that is why he won the championship 2 year in a row. Crazy talent.
I got tossed out of kindergarten for whipping a kid’s ass who tried to take the milk I had my eye on...
Maybe I missed it, but can someone point me to the gear that is creating all the hubbub? I saw the Gray Ops plate in use at the finale, specifically on the rocks stage. I shot that stage with a game changer bag on its side, took a 9/10...did I take a 9 because I was unstable and pulled a shot? Nope, shot the wrong target. If I had used the plate would I have cleaned it? Nope, still would have shot the wrong target.
Not to be a dick but I have plenty of money to spend on this sport. There’s not a piece of kit out there I couldn’t have if I wanted it. But I shot the entire Finale with 2 bags: a game changer, and a solo sac, and finished in 60th place. The people crying gear race are the same ones making 20 points worth of mental mistakes, trying to shoot everything at maximum magnification, dialing the wrong dope, and shooting the wrong targets on a regular basis. We all make mental errors, but the guys at the top do it VERY rarely, way less than I do. They lock in every time for every stage. Would more gear help me make up any of the 19 points that Phillip beat me by? Not a chance. But making a better wind call on my first stage of the match would have (3/10).
Lastly, show me a case where someone had a piece of gear they wouldn’t lend to another shooter. If you think you can game a stage by borrowing my tripod (or whatever piece of mythical gamer gear) that you don’t have, have at it. More often than not it will end up getting knocked over in the equipment yard sale, and you’ll end up timing out while struggling to get stable. I’d go out on a limb and say any shooter I know will lend another shooter (no matter skill level) a piece of their kit if they feel it will help them, whether they know each other or not.
PS- I’m the FIRST guy to ask a new shooter if he wants any advice on shooting a stage. I’m happy to help anyone get better. But if you already believe it’s my equipment that makes me better, you’re not going to listen anyway.
Not to be a dick but I have plenty of money to spend on this sport. There’s not a piece of kit out there I couldn’t have if I wanted it. But I shot the entire Finale with 2 bags: a game changer, and a solo sac, and finished in 60th place. The people crying gear race are the same ones making 20 points worth of mental mistakes, trying to shoot everything at maximum magnification, dialing the wrong dope, and shooting the wrong targets on a regular basis. We all make mental errors, but the guys at the top do it VERY rarely, way less than I do. They lock in every time for every stage. Would more gear help me make up any of the 19 points that Phillip beat me by? Not a chance. But making a better wind call on my first stage of the match would have (3/10).
Lastly, show me a case where someone had a piece of gear they wouldn’t lend to another shooter. If you think you can game a stage by borrowing my tripod (or whatever piece of mythical gamer gear) that you don’t have, have at it. More often than not it will end up getting knocked over in the equipment yard sale, and you’ll end up timing out while struggling to get stable. I’d go out on a limb and say any shooter I know will lend another shooter (no matter skill level) a piece of their kit if they feel it will help them, whether they know each other or not.
PS- I’m the FIRST guy to ask a new shooter if he wants any advice on shooting a stage. I’m happy to help anyone get better. But if you already believe it’s my equipment that makes me better, you’re not going to listen anyway.
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I’ll try it out man
I can video thru the scope in various positions/props with each bag for comparison and see what they look like
Heck yes. It's headed to somewhere in the midwest. I'll prob send that guy a label to send it straight to you to avoid extra shipping costs.
What scope cam do you use? Was looking at a phone skope. Wondering if the unbraked 300 norma is going to kill my phone if I hook it to the rifle.
