Rifle Scopes  IOR Valdada?

8334tactical

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Dec 14, 2017
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I’m in the market for my first tier 1 rifle scope. I want to spend the money up front versus stepping up gradually because i think I’ll save money in the long run. I’m a new long range shooter but not new to shooting. My goals are to shoot 1000+ yards and would one day like to shoot matches. I’ve been doing a lot of research and Valdada scopes seem to be in the front of the line for me. I guess my question is that do any at you guys use them? What are your thoughts? Likes and dislikes? How do they compare to other glass in that price range ($3000). I’m looking at the recon 4.5x28x50 (40mm tube). Suppose to be world class in glass,FOV and tracking. It’s gonna take me a very long time to save up for a scope like this and making a mistake buying the wrong optic isn’t an option for me. What are some other recommendations if any. Thanks in advance.
 

KWilson

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First poster asking about IOR scopes...Geez dude, you're going to open up a hornet's nest asking about that junk on here. I'll assume for a moment that you are serious and not trolling for a reaction, but at that price point there are a heap of top notch scopes for you to consider such as NF, Kahles, Minox, S&B, Vortex...
 

Wyfox

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  • May 24, 2012
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    Their junk! so many better optics choices out there. We tested the IOR Recon and it didn't track worth a shit and the magnification range was way off from what the mag ring read, pile of garbage for a 3g.
    I would look at Schmidt & Bender PM2, Tangent Theta, or Nightforce ATACR. I have the luxury to run any optic I want and choose Schmidt and Bender Ultra Shorts(3-20 and 5-20), with the new pricing structure of S&B it's really hard to beat. If you look at the used market too you can really get alot of bang for the buck.
     

    spife7980

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    It might work out just fine for you but I have read enough stories about their issues to advise that you pursue a more certain avenue.
     

    8334tactical

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    Can you post some links or tell me where I can read about some of the issues that people have had.
     

    The King

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    I cannot point you to issues on this site - I can’t find much of the older content when IOR was up and coming instead of down and going.

    i will personally never own one again - mine had great glass and what I considered unacceptable mechanicals.

    Get something you will be happy with.
     

    Txhillbilly

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    I know a couple guy's that have the IOR Recon,and love them. When I built my new rifle several months ago,there were two scopes that I had on my list,the Kahles k624i and the IOR Recon. I shoot LH,so I wanted a scope that I didn't have to either reach across or take my trigger hand off the rifle to adjust the side focus on.

    The Kahles is a great scope,but I wanted less than 6x magnification on the low end. A local dealer had an IOR in stock,and I liked what I saw. I bought the IOR Recon,and I have zero complaints with it.
    Let the Brand snobs say what they want about IOR,I shot out to a mile a couple weeks ago,and the shooter next to me was using a S&B PM II. We swapped rifles,and we couldn't see any difference in sight picture - clarity - etc. Both scopes performed excellent from 700 yards to 1793 yards that we were shooting.
    I also shot my other 6.5 CM with the Athlon Cronus on it,and it worked excellent also. It isn't as nice as the IOR or S&B,but it tracked great out to 1793 yards. At 1/3rd the cost of the other's,I'm happy with it.
     
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    8334tactical

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    Of coarse he has tactical in his name.

    Just get a CounterSniper.

    If you got something to say about the recon then say it, good or bad. This is a lot of money to be spending for me. I’m not partial to any one brand like some. But if your gonna come on here and talk trash about me for trying to do my research before buying something then go fuck yourself.
     

    spife7980

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    Hey, no need to go attacking our respected members. We’ve said our peace, if you want to roll the dice on a commie piece of shit go for it. If you’re wanting us to link threads just google “ior sniipershide” and you should find plenty on them going down and the lack of customer service for warranty.
     
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    demolitionman

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    If you got something to say about the recon then say it, good or bad. This is a lot of money to be spending for me. I’m not partial to any one brand like some. But if your gonna come on here and talk trash about me for trying to do my research before buying something then go fuck yourself.

    Rofl
     
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    FUNCTIONAL

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    Out of 2 ive seen in classes both of them shit the bed and would not hold zero. It would hold it for about 5 shots until he touched the dial and then it wouldn't return to zero. After about an hr of wasting everyone's time it wouldn't even hold it for 3 shots and the instructor had to give him his own rifle. Happened 2 separate times.

    everything ive seen on them pretty much mirrors similar, tracking is horrible. You may get lucky but as you said its a lot of money and not something you wasn't to gamble on. Kahles, s&b, vortex, nightforce, uso are all top quality and will serve you much better. Hell you can pick up a Razor Gen2 in the PX for 1800 and have a top tier scope with the best warranty you will find.
     

    supercorndogs

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    If you got something to say about the recon then say it, good or bad. This is a lot of money to be spending for me. I’m not partial to any one brand like some. But if your gonna come on here and talk trash about me for trying to do my research before buying something then go fuck yourself.

    Maybe you should go back to your safe space, where no one hurts your feelings. IOR or Countersniper, they are both perfect for tactidillholes.
     
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    Rob01

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    If you got something to say about the recon then say it, good or bad. This is a lot of money to be spending for me. I’m not partial to any one brand like some. But if your gonna come on here and talk trash about me for trying to do my research before buying something then go fuck yourself.

    You are new to the Hide so you will learn that sometimes punches aren't pulled and you might get a blunt answer that might sound rude to you but it's correct. Also people bust balls here. It happens. Relax and learn.

    I will break down IOR for you. Great glass, garbage internals. Scopes aren't spotters. You need internals for tracking.
     

    308Gunner

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  • Jan 22, 2013
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    I have a friend that has a recon and one with a 3-18 both scopes have good glass not great, both scopes will not track. These 2 friends and myself have 2.5-10 on ar’s these are on yote rifles and work but we just hold over. These buddy’s have gone with nightforce scopes on there rifles now, I shoot a gen 2 razor and would not buy a IOR if you give me the money. There are a hell of a lot of better options just do a little research on here, as stated above this site and the members here will flame your ass given half a chance BUT there is also more knowledge on this site than anywhere else. Ask questions about a scope and there will be someone that has that scope if it is junk you will find out
     

    steve123

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    In short a friend had a G1 and G2 ior break, I gave a Gen 3 ior a chance and guess what happened. I don't care how many Gen's they come up with....
     

    dleeds

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    I have the Crusader and I think it is awesome. The glass on it is as good as my Minox ZP5. You are not likely to get any sort of valid information on this site about IOR. Everybody "knows" someone who "knows" someone who had a problem with IOR 15 years ago. It's like back in High School were a bunch of virgins would sit around talking about how "good in bed" a girl was, and make fun of them on the rumor that they weren't.

    I would ignore anyone who hasn't actually owned and shot the Recon or one of the other 40mm tubed scopes. That means like 3 people on this site.
     

    lowlight

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    Tracking, Tracking, and Tracking are the top three considerations in a scope.

    IOR fails all three of these, the 5 people on this site with an IOR that actually tracks is blind luck. Sure I saw one work over the weekend, but it didn't work any better than any other scope on the line so why bother? For the same money, you can get a trusted brand with a better reputation and customer service you probably won't need.

    This is not ancient history, we see them break in classes all the time. However, nowadays you only see 1 IOR per 15 students every other class. Most people have gotten the message that spending this kind of money on a dice roll is not good business. 15 years ago, every IOR Scopes broke, so they earned their crappy reputation, and then some. Not to mention trying to steal the SH name to promote their scopes after being told to remove it. That makes for a long bad history in a community with plenty of competition that does not have a checkered past. I don't have to own one to see them break in my classes, that is as valid as it gets.

    The Recon maybe an improvement over the Gen 4 models of the past, but why risk it. Valid information is saving people from making a costly mistake, we just don't like gambling with other people's money to see if they finally got it right. The owners who feel cheated by this site over their reputation are forgetting the fact they earned it, not that we invented it.
     

    mcameron

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    $3K will get you into any of the high end German or American glass........why would you risk buying glass from Romania?

    Romanians are great at making AKs.....not sure ide trust them with precision optics.
     

    supercorndogs

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    I have the Crusader and I think it is awesome. The glass on it is as good as my Minox ZP5. You are not likely to get any sort of valid information on this site about IOR. Everybody "knows" someone who "knows" someone who had a problem with IOR 15 years ago. It's like back in High School were a bunch of virgins would sit around talking about how "good in bed" a girl was, and make fun of them on the rumor that they weren't.

    I would ignore anyone who hasn't actually owned and shot the Recon or one of the other 40mm tubed scopes. That means like 3 people on this site.

    And two of them only like to talk about them..,...LOL, the expert folks.
     

    kl3309

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    I, for one, fully endorse you spending your money on an IOR.
    Remember to post a pic!
     

    BCP

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    Can you post some links or tell me where I can read about some of the issues that people have had.

    I miss the good glass quality but not the parts breaking all the time.

    Stick with Nightforce/Bushnell/Vortex etc.
     

    myronman3

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    I’m in the market for my first tier 1 rifle scope. I want to spend the money up front versus stepping up gradually because i think I’ll save money in the long run. I’m a new long range shooter but not new to shooting. My goals are to shoot 1000+ yards and would one day like to shoot matches. I’ve been doing a lot of research and Valdada scopes seem to be in the front of the line for me. I guess my question is that do any at you guys use them? What are your thoughts? Likes and dislikes? How do they compare to other glass in that price range ($3000). I’m looking at the recon 4.5x28x50 (40mm tube). Suppose to be world class in glass,FOV and tracking. It’s gonna take me a very long time to save up for a scope like this and making a mistake buying the wrong optic isn’t an option for me. What are some other recommendations if any. Thanks in advance.

    i'ma take a wild stab. you watched a tibosaurus rex video on the ior and now you think it is the titties? and no, i am NOT trying to slam on ya. i am just guessing where this is coming from.

    seeing as how the interweb is fuck of fucksticks, and you do not know who you are conversing with many times.....i'll tell you a little background on me. i grew up piss poor. hunt and fish my entire life. served as a airborne infantryman. divorced, paying child support on two kids and raising my nephew. between that, and the hunting and fishing my entire life, i know some shit about being fuckign poor and shooting. and i am really good at reading people and situations. how that ties into your question....

    spending this much is no small deal. you are trying to learn, and want good equipment. i can relate.

    if you go the ior route, you are rolling the dice and if (more like when) you need customer service, your 3k is GONE. you are fucked with a capital F. if it is the 40mm tube that is floating your boat, check out u.s. optics. i would imagine they could put something like that together for you. and, they have some of the best customer service that exists.

    the other thought that comes to mind, is that 40mm tube is going to create more problems than it will solve for ya. dealing with oddball shit like that gets expensive, with rings, mounts, clearance, etc. the smart play would be to look at some of the mainstream scopes guys here suggest. S&B seems to be the gold standard, and they were selling them here not too long ago for around 2400. why even fuck around with IOR when you can have the scope that all others are judged by? i have 2 us optics, and i like them. i REALLY like knowing that should i ever have an issue, they'll fix it. for a broke blue collar fuck like me, that is worth a lot. i hear a lot of great things about vortex, too. i'd strongly urge you to listen to the gang here, and consider something that has a much better reputation.

    as far as the asshats around here.....for the most part, it's a good group. a shitbird (literally) here or there, but by and large a good group. there is a lot of experience here you can draw on. you can either take the advice (even if it isnt what you were hoping for), or not. it's your money. but if it is indeed a huge purchase for you, dont fucking gamble. do it right the first time.

    a smart man learns from his mistakes. a WISE man learns from other people's mistakes. good luck.
     

    8334tactical

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    Lol you guys definitely have me convinced to go another route and that all i was wanting to know. There are just a ton of choices out there that it’s kind of mind blowing. I just wanna do it right the first time. Some of the ones I am looking at are the razor gen II, the AMG, uso B 17 or 25, Steiner T series, NF ATACR. I don’t think I’m gonna go wrong with these. Maybe shot show will produce something that just gives me a total boner tho!
     

    GIXXER2000

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  • Aug 5, 2013
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    Well here is my 2ct worth. I thought about getting a Valdada but like its been said my friend who got me back into shooting has one and his broke. I spent a lot of time at the IOR booth at Shot Show last year and was just not impressed with fit or function. There are a lot of really good quality scopes for $3000. I use S&B, Kahles and Vortex and I rank them in that order FOR MY EYE. I am open to trying a NF or Minox for an up coming project. If you listen to just 1 voice it would be LowLight he has seen or tested every thing out there at some point.
    Good luck on which one you choose.
     

    ICU22250

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    Out of 26 posts in this thread, excluding yours, there have been 2 maybe 3 positive IOR posts. If that's not an eye opener, nothing will be... Save yourself a total gut punch and listen to the communities suggestions here cause they know what the hell they are talking about.. NF, S&B, Kahles, Vortex Razor line, TT is where my money would go. There is no logical reason to even consider an IOR when you have all of these great options at a lower price point with fantastic customer support... good luck..
     

    Ledzep

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    Okay glass, Not the best internals. Had parallax problems with mine (2010 timeframe), which seems to have been a common enough problem. May be different now, but it used to be you had to mail the damn thing back to Romania or where ever they're made and wait like 2-4 months to get anything fixed. Anyway for having "Schott glass", the clarity in my NF NXS scopes was better, and the IOR had a brown overtone to it to my eye.

    It just reminded me of my WWII Mosin Nagant PU sniper scope or soviet era POSPs more than anything "modern".
     

    KWilson

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    Lol you guys definitely have me convinced to go another route and that all i was wanting to know. There are just a ton of choices out there that it’s kind of mind blowing. I just wanna do it right the first time. Some of the ones I am looking at are the razor gen II, the AMG, uso B 17 or 25, Steiner T series, NF ATACR. I don’t think I’m gonna go wrong with these. Maybe shot show will produce something that just gives me a total boner tho!

    You will see plenty of Gen II Vortex Razors, they're widely popular all around the world and are very popular amongst PRS shooters as the scope fits the bill for reliability, tracking, good glass, field of view, easy eyebox, good reticles, locking turrets and plenty of internal adjustment. It's a heavy scope which may or may not be a factor for you. I went for an AMG Razor as it had the features I wanted. Lifetime warranty with Vortex which doesn't hurt. The Kahles K624 offers some very useful reticles, good glass, generous eyebox, daytime usable illumination, top parallax adjustment which I like being left handed. Nightforce ATACR, like Vortex Gen II, it's built like a tank and NF have a great reputation, plenty of guys on here run them and you will be hard pressed to find any negative comments about them...S&B 5-25 has long been the gold standard and is in use by police and military units all around the world, which should tell you something - they work and work well. The Minox ZP 5-25 is getting some great wraps on here too...

    SHOT will no doubt throw up some new models but among NF, Kahles, Vortex, S&B, Minox you really can't go wrong. If you get down to your local range, you may see some of these scopes on rifles and that's a better place to look at them than in a store.
     

    kl3309

    Will not be controlled by a Kidd trigger!
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    In your own words, "Suppose to be world class..."
    How can you possibly go wrong?
     

    lowlight

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    Is anyone in here planning on trying out the Revic PMR 428?

    I have a Revic in hand,

    <iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fsnipershidellc%2Fvideos%2F10155900959107953%2F&show_text=0&width=560" width="560" height="315" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true" allowFullScreen="true"></iframe>
     

    MMAJunkie

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    I have owned and shot the following brands all in the 5-25 (Ish) range. IOR, Steiner, Nightforce, Kahles, March US Optics, Bushnell and my experience is that the IOR was the worst of the bunch. I didn't find the Schott glass all that impressive and even sent it back and they said no problems thats how it looks. To me it was worse than most every scope I had. I would stick to something like a Nightforce, Kahles, Vortex Razor or March if they make something you like. Right now I am shooting more F class and I am running a 10-60X March High master (SFP) and the glass is amazing on it. But that may not be for you as I can't range with it at all which is fine for me in F class as I know the range.
     

    roamin

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    I would aviod Kahles and S&B also, and that's coming from an owner of both. I absolutely need a lifetime warranty not an 11 year warranty like I have on my Kahles or a 2yr like on my PMII 3-27. A lifetime no questions asked fully transferable warranty and any manufacturer without one longer exists as far as I'm concerned. Any mechanical item can fail doesn't matter how good it is or who made it no manufacturer is exempt not one, my Kahles has previously suffered a major catastrophic failure which fell within the warranty period and was warranted and taken care of by Kahles. Not to say that they are delicate but these scopes are quite complex which gives the possibility for more components which can fail. I can only imagine the cost of insured shipping back to Germany (guessing $100+) and the cost to pay a German craftsman I'm guessing $100+ per/hr plus parts to fix a scope should it fail while out of warranty and shipping costs back afterward that could be a grand and what if that scope was no longer manufacturered and parts to fix it are no longer available, forget it new rule of mine no lifetime warranty no money from me. Kahles and S&B are awsome scopes some of the best but it's damn near 2018 and we have plenty of choices without the risk Bushnell, Nighforce, Vortex, Athlon, Leupold, Steiner, Tangent Theta and any I'm forgetting make wicked quality optics that will serve anyone's needs and carry lifetime coverage and with that many options I'll never again buy from someone who doesnt offer the coverage.

    OP you can't afford to buy the wrong scope, but here's the thing you don't sound like you have the experience to know what you want so you're going to buy the wrong scope. As you gain experience you will learn what you like and you don't and that will take time. My advice is to buy an inexpensive but still serviceable scope like a PST Gen ii, or maybe one of the Athlons and go shoot with it and learn what you want in your turrets, reticle, glass, magnification range, etc. Shoot with the scope for 6 months learn from it then flip it and buy something you're certain you'll like.
     

    spife7980

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    I would aviod Kahles and S&B also, and that's coming from an owner of both. I absolutely need a lifetime warranty not an 11 year warranty like I have on my Kahles or a 2yr like on my PMII 3-27. A lifetime no questions asked fully transferable warranty and any manufacturer without one longer exists as far as I'm concerned.

    Weren’t those timelines established per legal requirement for their home countries over in the eu and they acknowledged that they will provide service beyond them?

    Also, don’t both have US service centers?

    Edit: S&B is 20 year in the US https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...opes/6264542-s-b-usa-20-year-limited-warranty

    You wont have an issue with warranty on either of them though
     
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    vh20

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    roamin

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    Weren’t those timelines established per legal requirement for their home countries over in the eu and they acknowledged that they will provide service beyond them?

    Also, don’t both have US service centers?

    Edit: S&B is 20 year in the US https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/forum/...mited-warranty

    You wont have an issue with warranty on either of them though

    Thanks for the link to LL's thread but do you have a link to an actual S&B site so that I can confrim that from the horses mouth? I'm seeing a 2yr warranty;

    "Within 2 years from the date of the purchase we grant a warranty with respect to the applicable statutory warranty claims of the buyer."--off S&B's website linked below

    I do see that S&B has a service center stateside.

    Kahles warranty is 11ys as per Jeff Huber US sales rep. Kahles has no US service center mine shipped to Jeff in Idaho then to Swarovski Austria for repairs after it shit itself. Worth mentioning that when I google "Kahles warranty" or search Kahles's website for the warranty nothing comes up this is a put off IMO. The only thing Kahles has in the US is Jeff a sales rep.

    If a coverage isn't a large issue to you I promise you that'll change immediately if ever you need it.
     
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    Txhillbilly

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    I learned a long time ago that the "Hater's" always out number the Positive reviews on almost any products, Most people that have positive trouble free use of a product usually don't take the time to post a good review on them.
    But,If a person has an issue with a product,they automatically get on the interweb and talk trash about the product. Most of the time,the user is the cause of the problem,or they don't try to give the maker the chance to make good on fixing it..

    I know people that have had issues with every brand of scope made. None of them are perfect,a human has been assigned the task of putting them together. I've had issues with plenty myself,but they were all fixed or replaced by the maker's.

    In the past,IOR did have some problems. So far,my Recon works and tracks excellent,and the other people that I know with them haven't had any problems with them either.
     

    vh20

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    Thanks for the link to LL's thread but do you have a link to an actual S&B site so that I can confrim that from the horses mouth? I'm seeing a 2yr warranty;

    "Within 2 years from the date of the purchase we grant a warranty with respect to the applicable statutory warranty claims of the buyer."--off S&B's website linked below

    If you call the US service center (I have) they will confirm warranty is 20 years. I believe paperwork in the new production scopes also has it, but can't remember for sure. Service center also said that website has not been updated, and may not get updated since it is still 2 years in Europe and other places.
     

    roamin

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    If you call the US service center (I have) they will confirm warranty is 20 years. I believe paperwork in the new production scopes also has it, but can't remember for sure. Service center also said that website has not been updated, and may not get updated since it is still 2 years in Europe and other places.

    Well that's definitely a step in the right direction it's not lifetime coverage but it's a hell of a lot better than 2yrs.

    So is there a date that you would have had to have purchased an S&B after to be eligible for the 20yr warranty or are they extending coverage back to older scopes as well?
     

    Ledzep

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    I learned a long time ago that the "Hater's" always out number the Positive reviews on almost any products, Most people that have positive trouble free use of a product usually don't take the time to post a good review on them.
    But,If a person has an issue with a product,they automatically get on the interweb and talk trash about the product. Most of the time,the user is the cause of the problem,or they don't try to give the maker the chance to make good on fixing it..

    I know people that have had issues with every brand of scope made. None of them are perfect,a human has been assigned the task of putting them together. I've had issues with plenty myself,but they were all fixed or replaced by the maker's.

    In the past,IOR did have some problems. So far,my Recon works and tracks excellent,and the other people that I know with them haven't had any problems with them either.


    Yes, you hear more bad reports than good by the nature of things. Yes, everyone has fuckups... But... I've had 7 or 8 vortex scopes now and had to send one (the cheapest one, $300) back for the warranty. It took like 10 days round trip. My one IOR ($1200 IIRC was the purchase price) was messed up. Parallax adjustment to get the reticle to not move did not make the image clear and visa/versa.

    -At the time it had to be sent back to Eastern Europe for repairs (several weeks/months round trip)
    -Next to my Nightforce 2.5-10x for the same money, the NF was clearer, more resolution, brighter, and had a cleaner cut reticle.
    -Upon investigating my issue, it was one of many COMMON issues with IOR scopes at the time.

    The same thing honestly applied (applies?) to Leupold. They had a rash of QC issues with Mk6's and other models with off-center reticles, canted reticles, off-center turrets, and a few other internal failures. No doubt they put out a LOT of good scopes.

    The point is why gamble when you're spending that kind of money, especially if the company is going to take several weeks/months to fix the problem? And even more-so when the price range you're dealing with offers options/quality that exceed what that company is putting out. If I'm going to take that gamble, it's going to be with a company like Vortex or Burris that has a no BS warranty and quick, helpful CS department, or one of the many companies out there with nearly spotless records where my odds are presumably much better (NF, TT, S&B, Kahles, etc.).
     

    Luke

    Sergeant
    Full Member
    Minuteman
    May 29, 2002
    1,001
    183
    Colorado
    FWIW, I had one of the IOR Valdada 3-18x42 with the SH MP8 reticle. It was a good scope. Built like a tank, and good glass. No problems with it at all.

    ETA: If you're truly on the fence, for the price, there are arguably better scopes available.
     
    Last edited:

    lowlight

    HMFIC of this Shit
    Staff member
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    Minuteman
  • Apr 12, 2001
    33,426
    28,459
    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    It's an MP8 reticle I never authorized the use of our brand. And that brand is trademarked.

    The fact is, people hate the idea that their decision is not accepted by the community. So it becomes an emotional argument to prove their decision was not flawed.

    They just can't accept the fact that while it "may work for them" the rest of us do not accept their choice as a good one. By pointing that out it hurts their feelings, they crave acceptance and we continue to deny it.
     

    BCP

    Lt. Colonel
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Dec 4, 2008
    5,729
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    CA
    Lol you guys definitely have me convinced to go another route and that all i was wanting to know. There are just a ton of choices out there that it’s kind of mind blowing. I just wanna do it right the first time. Some of the ones I am looking at are the razor gen II, the AMG, uso B 17 or 25, Steiner T series, NF ATACR. I don’t think I’m gonna go wrong with these. Maybe shot show will produce something that just gives me a total boner tho!

    Nightforce
     

    CSTactical

    Sniper's Hide Vendor
    Commercial Supporter
    Full Member
    Minuteman
  • Nov 18, 2009
    7,278
    2,411
    Sacramento, CA
    www.cstactical.com
    I would aviod Kahles and S&B also, and that's coming from an owner of both. I absolutely need a lifetime warranty not an 11 year warranty like I have on my Kahles or a 2yr like on my PMII 3-27. A lifetime no questions asked fully transferable warranty and any manufacturer without one longer exists as far as I'm concerned. Any mechanical item can fail doesn't matter how good it is or who made it no manufacturer is exempt not one, my Kahles has previously suffered a major catastrophic failure which fell within the warranty period and was warranted and taken care of by Kahles. Not to say that they are delicate but these scopes are quite complex which gives the possibility for more components which can fail. I can only imagine the cost of insured shipping back to Germany (guessing $100+) and the cost to pay a German craftsman I'm guessing $100+ per/hr plus parts to fix a scope should it fail while out of warranty and shipping costs back afterward that could be a grand and what if that scope was no longer manufacturered and parts to fix it are no longer available, forget it new rule of mine no lifetime warranty no money from me. Kahles and S&B are awsome scopes some of the best but it's damn near 2018 and we have plenty of choices without the risk Bushnell, Nighforce, Vortex, Athlon, Leupold, Steiner, Tangent Theta and any I'm forgetting make wicked quality optics that will serve anyone's needs and carry lifetime coverage and with that many options I'll never again buy from someone who doesnt offer the coverage.

    OP you can't afford to buy the wrong scope, but here's the thing you don't sound like you have the experience to know what you want so you're going to buy the wrong scope. As you gain experience you will learn what you like and you don't and that will take time. My advice is to buy an inexpensive but still serviceable scope like a PST Gen ii, or maybe one of the Athlons and go shoot with it and learn what you want in your turrets, reticle, glass, magnification range, etc. Shoot with the scope for 6 months learn from it then flip it and buy something you're certain you'll like.


    Kahles' Limited Lifetime Warranty just an FYI: https://repairservice.swarovskiopti...iekarte_usa_2016_web.pdf?Status=Temp&sfvrsn=2