Night Vision IR lasers FP vs commercial

[stefan73]

Not stupid.

Yes, stuff reflects. But same as all the other threats of exposure. It's tiny bits getting illuminated and bouncing light all over. A tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the radiation is coming back at you then.

Happy to rant on about eye safety with lasers if needed. Lots of misunderstanding of what eye-safe means, and what damage mechanisms are. Army has public documentation on several of the early issues and they are interesting. A lot about, as stated above, know the equipment, and positively safe it when not in use.

Army didn't do much if any training on laser safety back in the day when first issuing high power lasers to the blue cord wearers other than to say don't remove the blue screw, so what did Soldiers do they removed the blue screw. All cool for deployments but not that cool for force on force training (because when they removed the screw they usually lost it). Only case of laser eye damage I can specifically remember resulted in a safety of use message across the Army was when a Soldier with an overseas green laser pointer inadvertently reflected the green laser off the mirror on the turret into his eye causing retinal burns and permanent blindness in that one eye. I am sure there was more to the story.

I think there might have been some safety of use messages for PEQ's and such but I would have to do some digging.

An interesting video https://safety.army.mil/MEDIA/Video-Library/Video-Player/VideoId/42/UseHtml5/True it lists some incidents of laser use (all green visible laser incidents and the one I mentioned above). What we don't know is how many IR laser incidents there have been since the victim usually doesn't know they have been hit by an IR laser.

 

[roostercogburn98]

Army didn't do much if any training on laser safety back in the day when first issuing high power lasers to the blue cord wearers other than to say don't remove the blue screw, so what did Soldiers do they removed the blue screw. All cool for deployments but not that cool for force on force training (because when they removed the screw they usually lost it). Only case of laser eye damage I can specifically remember resulted in a safety of use message across the Army was when a Soldier with an overseas green laser pointer inadvertently reflected the green laser off the mirror on the turret into his eye causing retinal burns and permanent blindness in that one eye. I am sure there was more to the story.

I think there might have been some safety of use messages for PEQ's and such but I would have to do some digging.

An interesting video https://safety.army.mil/MEDIA/Video-Library/Video-Player/VideoId/42/UseHtml5/True it lists some incidents of laser use (all green visible laser incidents and the one I mentioned above). What we don't know is how many IR laser incidents there have been since the victim usually doesn't know they have been hit by an IR laser.

What about the old BLIPS? They used to preach eye safety for lasers for sure in the late 90s. I had a few pairs, can’t say I ever wore them, but they were out there.

 

[shoobe01]

FWIW, three I recall without details (I have the documents) way back early on before any safety thoughts (and note the big laser danger stickers are an after-issue update for some items) are:

• Snuffy with a GVS5 on EX. Puts it to his eye the Wrong Way Around. Really the ergonomics are terrible, but still, he can't see through it so presses the button. Lases his eyeball to blindness. Luckily didn't try the other eye after this
• Armorer working in his arms room. Leaning over the gun rack, to secure them IIRC. Eyes hurt, eventually reports it and lost most but not all vision. Under investigation, a PEQ-? had been left or bumped ON on high power in the rack, facing up.
• Sniper (M24 IIRC so +/- a sniper for real) looking at truck windshield through scope at close range. Same truck gets lased by someone else on his side. Reflects into scope which at 10x is enough to give him permanent (though not complete) eye damage.

As to the "my dad's got a gnarly set of tools" yes, power and beam quality and all that sure. But I see a LOT of stuff from HTs to earpro to GPSs that are just fine for massively less money... until it rains. Or freezes. Or gets too humid. Or gets dropped. And recoil proofing? Yeah. These are expensive but a lot of that shows when you need it.

Range work, or hunting to some degree, absolutely can get away with lower-spec stuff. See the difference in the markets for hunting vs military clipons, for example.

 

[shoobe01]

What about the old BLIPS? They used to preach eye safety for lasers for sure in the late 90s. I had a few pairs, can’t say I ever wore them, but they were out there.

AFAIK the eyesafe glasses were for the threat of LRFs on tanks, and for a perceived laser dazzling/blinding weapon by the soviets. Not sure they fielded it.

But, took a bit to get everyone to understand the little on on the rifle or in your hand can — at closer ranges — be as dangerous.

Also see the spotty issue of LIFs. Easy to get for the ACOG but for (see above story) snipers? For spotters? For magnifiers behind RDS? No but I am not sure WHY that one.

 

[stefan73]

What about the old BLIPS? They used to preach eye safety for lasers for sure in the late 90s. I had a few pairs, can’t say I ever wore them, but they were out there.

Are you talking about the old green gargoyle glasses that we used to get issued? I know revision had some but I have to check if the stuff we were issued was laser safe ballistic glasses.

 

[WhereNow&How]

this site is a little more pro class iii IR since it's mostly about long range. probably related to that it also has a bit smarter and richer user base. check on other sites and you'll quickly see some people who have had issues.

The "you'll quickly see some people who have had issues" are likely also the ones that rode in the back of the skool bus.

 

[stefan73]

If I remember correctly the LRF on US Brads and tanks was very high power and ran outside of retinal hazard wavelengths to reduce the chance of injury.

Laser Hazards - Army Public Health Center

This page contains a description of hazards common to laser overexposures and laser classification descriptions.

phc.amedd.army.mil

 

[roostercogburn98]

Are you talking about the old green gargoyle glasses that we used to get issued? I know revision had some but I have to check if the stuff we were issued was laser safe ballistic glasses.

Yeah those glasses are the ones I was referring to. It has been 20 plus years since I had a set in my hands, but I remember being issued them and told they were for laser play time. As @shoobe01 stated, they may have been geared more tow LRF stuff. We were at the 101 and them whirlybirds may have been lasing us from time to time for practice.

 

[stefan73]

Yeah those glasses are the ones I was referring to. It has been 20 plus years since I had a set in my hands, but I remember being issued them and told they were for laser play time. As @shoobe01 stated, they may have been geared more tow LRF stuff. We were at the 101 and them whirlybirds may have been lasing us from time to time for practice.

We received some of them. Those glasses sucked worse than the RPG's aka rape prevention glasses the army issued! Nobody wore them, all we knew was that they sucked. That was 1999 for me. I think we were still getting them up till around 2001 or 2002?

 

[M4guru]

I got issued a bunch of Oakley M Frame 2.0s in grey with green laser lenses up thru 2016, so they're still around in some form.

 

[shoobe01]

SI Ballistic M Frame 2.0 Strike Laser Array

(NSN 4240-01-555-5324)

Grey Frame with Laser, Grey and Clear Lenses with Case

There are a LOT of the green lenses around, but no one seems to know why they are green so leaves them in the case. Not enough people wear eyepro generally (range day even with the GO trying a new gun on camera: 80% bare eyes!) so I suspect these will have zero impact if the bad guys start firing lasers at us.

Note that even those who know they are the Laser Lens have no idea what it's for, so some have been saying e.g. airline pilots should wear them because of the ultra-power green laser "attacks" these days. Of course, they are IR-protective, do zero against 532nm green.

IIRC the bands they protect against are a secret on the theory that the Russkies will just change their lasers secretly. Such that I personally have never seen a trustworthy reference to it.

 

[WindstormSCR]

seemed the best place to ask instead of creating a new thread, what are peoples experiences like with the Surefire KM2-C dual mode head? I get the commentary from @TheGerman about not using dual mode lights if you're doing serious things, but my needs are a little simpler, and my recent entry to the NV game is a simple ATN X-sight 4k and I'm looking for a way to get some illumination without having two flashlights for smashing swine!

 

[TheGerman]

seemed the best place to ask instead of creating a new thread, what are peoples experiences like with the Surefire KM2-C dual mode head? I get the commentary from @TheGerman about not using dual mode lights if you're doing serious things, but my needs are a little simpler, and my recent entry to the NV game is a simple ATN X-sight 4k and I'm looking for a way to get some illumination without having two flashlights for smashing swine!

 

[WindstormSCR]

..

yeah I’m not in a place yet to get into full NV, hopefully next year but for now I at least got the X-sight at a decent price. Its just been hard to get a feel for how the Surefire KM2-C head stacks up to other visibles and IR. I already have the arisaka 600 body so it seemed worth asking about

 

[LoopyChef]

I'd recommend getting a FP perst 3($1.1-1.5k) in your budget. I have a perst 2(got it for $1.8k but now its $2k) in these two videos, one is pitch dark no moon and the other is a bright full moon. I'd rather have the ability to go full power when needed than not have it.

Side note: On the Pitch Black video @5:57 that super wide and clean illuminator is an LA5 (updated peq 15). Throughout the whole video my Perst 2 was on the widest setting and it wasn't even half the size of the LA5(around $3k laser)

Full Moon vid


Pitch Black No Moonlight

 

[JeffLebowski]

If you’re just a Lebowski trying to abide and schwack the random hog or yote and want to operate operationally on a budget, there are ways to do this — effectively — on the cheap.

I resemble this remark and feel personally attacked

 

[TheHorta]

I resemble this remark and feel personally attacked

Triggered!

 

[stefan73]

That Holosun really tied the room together

 

[TxWelder35]

Got my dbal d2 in and got to play with it last night. Not unhappy with my decision so far. Had no problem seeing the IR laser out to 300 yards in town here with plenty of ambient light, and the IR Illuminator is also pretty damn bright.

 

[Swatman]

Got my Perst 3 Thursday the 9th. I ordered it on the 26th and paid for the expedited shipping. I took it out and I was very happy with how well the Illuminator worked. The lasers were a lot cleaner than shown on the online videos too. Overall very happy with the purchase. The guy I was with was so impressed he ordered two for himself.

 

[TxWelder35]

Got my Perst 3 Thursday the 9th. I ordered it on the 26th and paid for the expedited shipping. I took it out and I was very happy with how well the Illuminator worked. The lasers were a lot cleaner than shown on the online videos too. Overall very happy with the purchase. The guy I was with was so impressed he ordered two for himself.

That’s a pretty damn quick turnaround time. Surprised it cleared customs that fast

 

[Swatman]

Yeah I was a little stressed when it went off the radar and didn’t update tracking for 5 days in NY. Then it showed up at the Phoenix post office. The package wasn’t opened or marked by customs but I don’t know if that’s normal or what since I never ordered anything from Russia.

 

[TxWelder35]

Yeah I was a little stressed when it went off the radar and didn’t update tracking for 5 days in NY. Then it showed up at the Phoenix post office. The package wasn’t opened or marked by customs but I don’t know if that’s normal or what since I never ordered anything from Russia.

My last Russian order was like 45 days and spent like 2 weeks in customs

 

[shoobe01]

Same for my various ZenitCo orders. But all overseas stuff I just assume will take 3 months, then am surprised if sooner.

Not just russia, but Switzerland, Germany, Finland, or UK. Israel must have daily air freighters, as they are pretty quick. China seems to have supersonic delivery jets as I have gotten stuff from for sure China in three days. How?!?!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Anyone looking for legit C3 Lasers, these PEQ3's just got posted and i expect them to go very fast.

Shark Arms

WELCOME! Please browse our site, email us with questions, orders or feedback: [email protected]

sharkarms.com

 

[_Windrider_]

Anyone looking for legit C3 Lasers, these PEQ3's just got posted and i expect them to go very fast.

Shark Arms

WELCOME! Please browse our site, email us with questions, orders or feedback: [email protected]

sharkarms.com

That site looks shady AF. A Gmail account as the contact is a HUGE CLUE.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

That site looks shady AF. A Gmail account as the contact is a HUGE CLUE.

Not even close. Chris @ Sharkarms is as legit as it gets, anyone in the Cloner/Surplus game knows him. I have done buisness with him for years both buying and selling. If you took 5 minutes to search google you would know this instead of putting someone on blast when you have zero information.

 

[_Windrider_]

Not even close. Chris @ Sharkarms is as legit as it gets, anyone in the Cloner/Surplus game knows him. I have done buisness with him for years both buying and selling. If you took 5 minutes to search google you would know this instead of putting someone on blast when you have zero information.

That’s cool man. Just saying the site looks shady AF. I guess I’m not in the game enough. Still riding the bench apparently.

 

[shoobe01]

Naw, you can't trust people with aol email addresses

What's a PEQ3? I thought I was well informed and have never heard of anything between a 2 and 4.

 

[WhereNow&How]

What's a PEQ3? I thought I was well informed and have never heard of anything between a 2 and 4.

Stone Age unit there.

Buuuut, got plenty Powah and civi can buy it.

Good price for new old stock unit.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Naw, you can't trust people with aol email addresses

What's a PEQ3? I thought I was well informed and have never heard of anything between a 2 and 4.

Upgraded PEQ2. Doesn't matter how new or what features a laser has if its weak as shit its not that usable.

I would take an older full power unit like the PEQ or Vital2 over the newer cucked class 1 stuff.

 

[BENRAY236]

Get a dedicated IR/Vis laser plus a SF Vampire. This will give you ALL lighting options and will be stupid light and compact. You’ll have visible light and super-bright IR illumination plus slaved IR/Vis lasers on a single pressure switch.

Best of all worlds — light, compact, cheap (at or under $1K total), legal, supported/warranty.

For ultra lightweight I run this and it works great.

View attachment 7747965

What is this setup?

 

[TheHorta]

What is this setup?

Tor IR laser, SF 600DF, Unity Hot Button.

 

[WhereNow&How]

That's Horta down here slumming with us common folks.

 

[TheHorta]

That's Horta down here slumming with us common folks.

I’m a man of the (poor) people.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’m a man of the (poor) people.

Yep Cesar HORTA Chavez. Champion of the downtrodden.

Bringing dreams of termal & night vision nirvana to keep the peasant man toiling in the field so he may one day ascend the stairway to thermal and NV heaven.

 

[Glassaholic]

Tor IR laser, SF 600DF, Unity Hot Button.

That's your ultra light setup, what is your heavy weight setup

 

[TheHorta]

That's your ultra light setup, what is your heavy weight setup

 

[Glassaholic]

View attachment 7802837

You know I had to ask Is that an SBR 50 cal?

 

[TheHorta]

You know I had to ask Is that an SBR 50 cal?

Barrett calls it their M107A1 “CQB”.

Because we can.

 

[stefan73]

Barrett calls it their M107A1 “CQB”.

Because we can.

You would enjoy some of my spotter tracer loads for the .50. Those and my MK211 rounds along with my Lapua Hybrids.

 

[Namekagon]

View attachment 7751340

OMFG that is the best NV meme I've ever seen. Guarantee most people don't even know who Carl is.

 

[TheHorta]

You would enjoy some of my spotter tracer loads for the .50. Those and my MK211 rounds along with my Lapua Hybrids.

I’ll definitely take some of your MK211 off your hands. I’m down to 24 rounds.

 

[stefan73]

I’ll definitely take some of your MK211 off your hands. I’m down to 24 rounds.

Only 24? Have you played with the Dim Trace yet?

 

[TheHorta]

Only 24? Have you played with the Dim Trace yet?

Nah, I have 400 rounds of APIT though. That’s fun and reasonably cheap.

 

[stefan73]

Nah, I have 400 rounds of APIT though. That’s fun and reasonably cheap.

I was at a local range and the silver marking on my API rubbed off. I grabbed the round thinking it was one of my 647grn ball rounds. By the time I did that I was getting irritated because it looked like I wasn't hitting the steel at the range and I knew my rifle was on. When I sent the API downrange I realized my rifle was indeed on and the rounds had just been punching through the steel as was confirmed by the API which looked really cool and another two people on the range that day said "wow, that was cool". I still think spotter tracer looks cooler!

 

[TheGerman]

Here’s a small sampling of a few IR thingies:

View attachment 7747993

Combined Round Count: 3

 

[stefan73]

Combined Round Count: 3

I would really dig an NGAL. I love my Attila, it is a beast.

 

[TheHorta]

I would really dig an NGAL. I love my Attila, it is a beast.

Attila was my first love.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Attila was my first love.

Hope your wife aint reading this stuff. Cold cuts for you for a month.