Suppressors Is a shotgun over 26" with a sub 18" barrel and a ar15 pistol brace a SBS or AOW?
- Thread starter jeffl838
- Start date
IF the shotgun began its life as a standard legal shotgun, OAL 26" and barrel 18", then it cannot become an AOW. The receiver keeps the non-NFA legacy it was born with.
Examples of a few of mine:
1. a Mossberg 500 Persuader is > 26" OAL, has an 18" barrel beginning life with a pistol grip.......it's a standard shotgun.
If you put a 14" barrel on it will be NFA registered as a SBS, not AOW. Requires a $200 NFA tax stamp on Form One for approval, then legal to assemble the configuration.
If you put a standard tactical / hunting buttstock on it, it remains a standard non-NFA legal shotgun, no concerns afield with wildlife officers.
2. A factory Safe Harbor KEG (Kompact Entry Shotgun) Remington 870 pump-action 7.5" barrel with a pistol grip (not a stock with pistol grip).....it is a AOW NFA item. Requires a $5 NFA Tax Stamp.
IF you put a standard buttstock on it with it's 7.5" barrel, it needs to be registered as an SBS on Form One with $200 tax stamp for approval, then legal to assemble the configuration.
If you put a 18" barrel on it and it remains < 26", it's still an AOW. Appreciate the difference between the example #1 of the Persuader starting its life as a non-NFA firearm.
If you put an 18" barrel AND a standard buttock stock with an OAL>26", it's a normal standard 870 shotgun in that configuration.
3. a Mossberg 590A1 14" began life as a SBS; NFA tax stamp $200, Form 4.
IF I put an 18" barrel on it for hunting, it is just a regular shotgun to the wildlife officer no inquiries as to ATF paperwork validation etc.
IF I put a pistol grip only on it, then courtesy notification to BATFE that you desire to have it in an AOW configuration. I am pretty far down the BATFE rabbit-hole on this one, but I don't think any $$ changes hands.
4. A Franchi SPAS (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun) 12 ; as seen in Schwartzenager movies; OAL > 26", barrel 18" with a folding stock that has the infamous forearm hook shaped "brace". Standard non-NFA legal shotgun; the presence of a "brace" does not influence its NFA status.
Any time the person in possession of the firearm undersizes the 26" OAL or 18" barrel restrictions you are in NFA territory, either AOW or SBS; which of these two categories is determined by the original shotgun receiver-barrel-buttstock-pistol handle configuration.
Examples of a few of mine:
1. a Mossberg 500 Persuader is > 26" OAL, has an 18" barrel beginning life with a pistol grip.......it's a standard shotgun.
If you put a 14" barrel on it will be NFA registered as a SBS, not AOW. Requires a $200 NFA tax stamp on Form One for approval, then legal to assemble the configuration.
If you put a standard tactical / hunting buttstock on it, it remains a standard non-NFA legal shotgun, no concerns afield with wildlife officers.
2. A factory Safe Harbor KEG (Kompact Entry Shotgun) Remington 870 pump-action 7.5" barrel with a pistol grip (not a stock with pistol grip).....it is a AOW NFA item. Requires a $5 NFA Tax Stamp.
IF you put a standard buttstock on it with it's 7.5" barrel, it needs to be registered as an SBS on Form One with $200 tax stamp for approval, then legal to assemble the configuration.
If you put a 18" barrel on it and it remains < 26", it's still an AOW. Appreciate the difference between the example #1 of the Persuader starting its life as a non-NFA firearm.
If you put an 18" barrel AND a standard buttock stock with an OAL>26", it's a normal standard 870 shotgun in that configuration.
3. a Mossberg 590A1 14" began life as a SBS; NFA tax stamp $200, Form 4.
IF I put an 18" barrel on it for hunting, it is just a regular shotgun to the wildlife officer no inquiries as to ATF paperwork validation etc.
IF I put a pistol grip only on it, then courtesy notification to BATFE that you desire to have it in an AOW configuration. I am pretty far down the BATFE rabbit-hole on this one, but I don't think any $$ changes hands.
4. A Franchi SPAS (Sporting Purpose Automatic Shotgun) 12 ; as seen in Schwartzenager movies; OAL > 26", barrel 18" with a folding stock that has the infamous forearm hook shaped "brace". Standard non-NFA legal shotgun; the presence of a "brace" does not influence its NFA status.
Any time the person in possession of the firearm undersizes the 26" OAL or 18" barrel restrictions you are in NFA territory, either AOW or SBS; which of these two categories is determined by the original shotgun receiver-barrel-buttstock-pistol handle configuration.
Last edited:
This is a little confusing, but....There is a category called "Pistol Grip Only". An example would be a Mossberg sold only with a pistol grip. Not a shotgun, as a shotgun is defined as shoulder fired. Not a AOW, as it's length is greater than 26 inches with the 18 inch factory barrel. Now the confusing part. As long as length remains over 26 inches, the barrel can be less then 18 inches. Because it was never a shotgun. This explains the Mossberg with the birdhead grip made by Shockwave Technologies and a 14 inch barrel. Not NFA, as length is greater than 26 inches.
Last edited:
^^^ IF the owner of the Shockwave assembles it with a standard buttstock, the OAL remains > 26" with its 14" barrel, it will THEN require $200 for the submission of a Form One application to be registered as a SBS.
This is analogous to what is happening in the realm of pistols with various mfg. having "braces". IF the "pistol" (AR-like or not) was born from the mfg. with a brace, the mfg. intent was for it to be a forearm brace, not shoulder braced.....as then you would have the definition of a short barrel rifle; your 9 mm pistol with a brace then becomes a 9mm SBR in the eyes of the NFA. So, if you incidentally shoulder it in your home with the shades down, not to worry; at the range with who knows who observing, you have an SBR and would be held accountable to have ATF registration information "available on request".
Last edited:
Thank you. These are fascinating conversations.These forearm braced handguns are certainly confusing from a NFA standpoint. Until this post, I hadn't considered the smoothbore issues. The Mossberg Shockwave certainly seems like a candidate for a reinterpretation of regulation, novelty status not withstanding.
Well, you are correct in that the Tac 14 is not a shotgun, as the receiver has never had a butt stock attached. The pistol brace is the interesting question. In theory, the only requirement is to stay longer then 26 inches. I'm not sure I would follow the advice of a internet forum.
I'd contact ATF and check your local laws, it varies from place to place and there are some simple requirements, but by definition a 26"+ OAL "shotgun" isn't technically a shotgun if it came from the factory with a pistol grip and has an OAL of 26"+ --this can be a combination of a longer grip and shorter barrel, doesn't matter as long it isn't shoulder fired (requisite for a shotgun to be a shotgun --must be shoulder fired). An AOW is only an AOW if it violates state laws or the weapon is under 26". Most 14"bbl.'d pumps with birdshead grips are usually 26.4-ish inches in length and therefor don't need to be regulated, not an AOW or SBS provided it started life with a factory pistol grip, and of course your state's definition of what constitutes a shotgun are in line with the federal definition. In WA it is and it's even been addressed formally by an AG opinion request from the courts that dictated that these weapons aren't regulated and require only a 4473 to purchase.
Best would be to contact ATF and get a letter in writing. Unless you do it this way, technically it didn't happen. Calling is okay, but for proof positive documentation you need to send off a letter asking for clarification. If other decisions are to be considered, then the pistol brace used as a buttstock is surprisingly okay with them. Personally, I couldn't see any reason why you couldn't do this provided it's legal in your state and it's over 26", but in a case like this I'd cover my ass.
For $350 Quantico has a 14"bbl.'d Mossberg 590 with a birdshead grip (which are honestly much more comfortable to use than a pistol grip) and it's 26.4" and requires no tax stamp (provided you live in a state where it's legal already).
Hope that helps.
Best would be to contact ATF and get a letter in writing. Unless you do it this way, technically it didn't happen. Calling is okay, but for proof positive documentation you need to send off a letter asking for clarification. If other decisions are to be considered, then the pistol brace used as a buttstock is surprisingly okay with them. Personally, I couldn't see any reason why you couldn't do this provided it's legal in your state and it's over 26", but in a case like this I'd cover my ass.
For $350 Quantico has a 14"bbl.'d Mossberg 590 with a birdshead grip (which are honestly much more comfortable to use than a pistol grip) and it's 26.4" and requires no tax stamp (provided you live in a state where it's legal already).
Hope that helps.
Neither. As the SB is not a stock, it is no different than the short stock that comes on the Mossberg Shockwave.
Well fuck, I guess that's why Mossberg discontinued the barrel kit!
The Shockwave is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's legal by federal law, state law varies according to the definitions, etc. Funny, they could have made more selling the shotgun AND the kit... FWIW, it makes the shotgun into a nice breacher and maybe a doorframe clearing hip gun, but that's about it.
As to the brace on a shotgun... It took an ATF letter to make it kosher to escape SBR status, but they didn't say SHIT about SBS... I'd get the goddamn letter first. You only have to write 'em and ask the question to technology branch and they'll reply and that letter is your "get out of jail free" card, to a point. I'd be surprised if they haven't answered this already.
The Shockwave is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's legal by federal law, state law varies according to the definitions, etc. Funny, they could have made more selling the shotgun AND the kit... FWIW, it makes the shotgun into a nice breacher and maybe a doorframe clearing hip gun, but that's about it.
As to the brace on a shotgun... It took an ATF letter to make it kosher to escape SBR status, but they didn't say SHIT about SBS... I'd get the goddamn letter first. You only have to write 'em and ask the question to technology branch and they'll reply and that letter is your "get out of jail free" card, to a point. I'd be surprised if they haven't answered this already.
