Considering an EOTech EXPS3 for a 10.5in SBR I’m building. Pretty sure they have fixed their QC / thermal drift issue but I’m curious if anybody is using them since all of that BS went down.
- Thread starter Jigstick
- Start date
It never was a real problem. But sure. They corrected the it.
The proplem that you have a 0.000675 chance or happening when you zero your rifle in Death Valley at noon in July then HEHO into the Hindu Kush that night and get a POI shift.
From USSOCOM
"The first is the reliability of the HWS in extreme temperatures, referred to as “Thermal Drift”. The PMO has noted a +/- 4 MOA shift at -40 Deg F and 122 Deg F."
The proplem that you have a 0.000675 chance or happening when you zero your rifle in Death Valley at noon in July then HEHO into the Hindu Kush that night and get a POI shift.
From USSOCOM
"The first is the reliability of the HWS in extreme temperatures, referred to as “Thermal Drift”. The PMO has noted a +/- 4 MOA shift at -40 Deg F and 122 Deg F."
I am using strictly Eotech (post "issue" models) on all my rifles and have never missed a shot due to the so called "issues". I have used them in a wide array of weather conditions with no issues. All optics will experience "thermal drift" with an extreme change in weather conditions (temperature). Set you system up in YOUR area of operation and its not an issue.
Had an Eotech years ago and the zero would drift over time w/o extreme temp shifts so it went back during their buy-back. Running Aimpoint PRO and CompM4 now.
OFG
OFG
- Apr 23, 2019
- 47
- 23
The unfortunate part is that it can still happen for sure.... I'm with oldfatguy the aimpoints are a better unit. It sucks that it happens but it can roll back to just technology in general. None of it is flawless.
I have had countless rounds down range with an Eotech...I have had batteries die but never a malfunction.
I have had 2 aimpoint T1's and 1 T2 die on me but its never been dead batteries.
If I ever leave LPVO and go back to red dots I will run EOtech again....possibly the MRO from trijicon...I havent broke one of those yet.
bench
I have had 2 aimpoint T1's and 1 T2 die on me but its never been dead batteries.
If I ever leave LPVO and go back to red dots I will run EOtech again....possibly the MRO from trijicon...I havent broke one of those yet.
bench
I will agree that thermal drift still occurs; that being said, it occurs in virtually every optic with extreme temperature changes. I have run several Aimpoints over the years and they are fantastic optic. But to the question and point of the OP......
POST 2016 Eotechs are good to go. If you can find the POST 2016 DOD paperwork you will see that both the EXPS 3 tested very well in all categories, thus is why it won the SOCOM contract. The old school Eotechs suffered from a 3-5 MOA shift when temps changed from -40 to 120 degrees F. The POST 2016 DOD testing showed a 1.5 MOA shift over that same temp range. The Aimpoint T1 was about the same (1.5 moa) and the T2 was only slightly better than the Eotech. What I think a lot of people don't take into consideration with their optic choice is parallax. For the everyday shooter / operator parallax is more of a concern than extreme temp change. Green Eye Tactical did a great review / test on this. Parallax will affect your everyday shooting way more than an extreme temperature change. Here is a link to that test:
www.greeneyetactical.com
When looking at the parallax numbers the T1 is terrible, thus effecting your shot placement way more than any thermal drift would ever do.
25 yard parallax shift:
T1 - 12.4 moa
EXPS - 1.5 moa
50 yard:
T1 - 9.5 moa
EXPS - .8 moa
100 yards:
T1 - 9.7 moa
EXPS - 0.0 moa
When you take into account that the window on the EXPS is 30% larger than the T1 the numbers are impressive.
Green Eye did not test the T2 and I have been looking for validated information on the Aimpoint T2, PRO and Comp M series. If I can locate good, solid, reliable data for you I will post it. With my experience, both in the military and law enforcement, the T2 has shown a parallax shift of about 2.5-3 moa throughout the yardage range, which is significantly better than the T1 but still not as good as the Eotech.
So I guess here is my opinion, FWIW: POST 2016 Eotechs are good to go, Aimpoints are good to go. For my usage, I prefer the reticle and field of view of the Eotech.
POST 2016 Eotechs are good to go. If you can find the POST 2016 DOD paperwork you will see that both the EXPS 3 tested very well in all categories, thus is why it won the SOCOM contract. The old school Eotechs suffered from a 3-5 MOA shift when temps changed from -40 to 120 degrees F. The POST 2016 DOD testing showed a 1.5 MOA shift over that same temp range. The Aimpoint T1 was about the same (1.5 moa) and the T2 was only slightly better than the Eotech. What I think a lot of people don't take into consideration with their optic choice is parallax. For the everyday shooter / operator parallax is more of a concern than extreme temp change. Green Eye Tactical did a great review / test on this. Parallax will affect your everyday shooting way more than an extreme temperature change. Here is a link to that test:
Comparative Study of Red Dot Sight Parallax | Green Eye Tactical
I'd like to thank you for viewing this report. It took a considerable amount of time to finish. I would like to apologize that parts of it may not appear formatted properly in your browser. Depending on what browser you are using- some of the images may not be visible due to the .tiff format.
www.greeneyetactical.com When looking at the parallax numbers the T1 is terrible, thus effecting your shot placement way more than any thermal drift would ever do.
25 yard parallax shift:
T1 - 12.4 moa
EXPS - 1.5 moa
50 yard:
T1 - 9.5 moa
EXPS - .8 moa
100 yards:
T1 - 9.7 moa
EXPS - 0.0 moa
When you take into account that the window on the EXPS is 30% larger than the T1 the numbers are impressive.
Green Eye did not test the T2 and I have been looking for validated information on the Aimpoint T2, PRO and Comp M series. If I can locate good, solid, reliable data for you I will post it. With my experience, both in the military and law enforcement, the T2 has shown a parallax shift of about 2.5-3 moa throughout the yardage range, which is significantly better than the T1 but still not as good as the Eotech.
So I guess here is my opinion, FWIW: POST 2016 Eotechs are good to go, Aimpoints are good to go. For my usage, I prefer the reticle and field of view of the Eotech.
Unless you leave it in your car or trunk it should be fine. I turned mine in too but because of how they handled that whole thing I have no problem getting another in the future. The FOV and speed and crispness of reticle just can't be beat in a holo sight.
But I currently have MRO's on a couple rack rifles and they work but IMO the dot could be crisper. I have a Trij RX01 on a Kriss Super V and it's solid. The base on these adjust, not the dot, but it can be dim if in a low light condition and aiming at brightly lit target. Then I have a Mepro MOR for a Tavor and it's a tri power sight: tritium, fiber optic and battery, plus it has a 5mW IR laser and a 5mW red laser slaved to the dot. Uses two batteries but can run on one. Again the base adjusts so the lasers stay slaved to the dot. Mepro also makes a few other military grade holosights that compare to EoTech --popular in Israel and I think Europe.
Then there's the mini ACOGs, the 1.5x versions. I don't have one yet but I'd like to get one to try out.
I only really use the dot sights for compact SBR's and those rack rifles, I prefer an ACOG if possible. My 11.5" sports a 3x ACOG, I forget what it's optimized to but it gets the job done. I have a 1-8x USO that works like a dot sight at low power and a small tree reticle at higher power and it's good for an SBR.
Wonder if Trij has gotten with the game yet and offers an SBR reticle? If not, they really should.
An Elcan would be nice too...
But I currently have MRO's on a couple rack rifles and they work but IMO the dot could be crisper. I have a Trij RX01 on a Kriss Super V and it's solid. The base on these adjust, not the dot, but it can be dim if in a low light condition and aiming at brightly lit target. Then I have a Mepro MOR for a Tavor and it's a tri power sight: tritium, fiber optic and battery, plus it has a 5mW IR laser and a 5mW red laser slaved to the dot. Uses two batteries but can run on one. Again the base adjusts so the lasers stay slaved to the dot. Mepro also makes a few other military grade holosights that compare to EoTech --popular in Israel and I think Europe.
Then there's the mini ACOGs, the 1.5x versions. I don't have one yet but I'd like to get one to try out.
I only really use the dot sights for compact SBR's and those rack rifles, I prefer an ACOG if possible. My 11.5" sports a 3x ACOG, I forget what it's optimized to but it gets the job done. I have a 1-8x USO that works like a dot sight at low power and a small tree reticle at higher power and it's good for an SBR.
Wonder if Trij has gotten with the game yet and offers an SBR reticle? If not, they really should.
An Elcan would be nice too...
I run an EoTech on a 12.5” gun and it has run flawlessly for the last couple of years.
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