Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
- Thread starter KYpatriot
- Start date
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
I run a 7mm RM and I love it. It pushes a 168 Berger at a modest 2930 fps and shoots in the low .1's, which I never knew they were capable of until I started the load development. My buddy pushes his 168's at 3050 but I just want superior barrel life. From what I've seen with the SAUM is incredible accuracy, but if you want the velocity of a magnum you have to run a 28"-30" barrel to get it. If you need any more info on the 7 RM feel free to PM me. Good luck
I run a 7mm RM and I love it. It pushes a 168 Berger at a modest 2930 fps and shoots in the low .1's, which I never knew they were capable of until I started the load development. My buddy pushes his 168's at 3050 but I just want superior barrel life. From what I've seen with the SAUM is incredible accuracy, but if you want the velocity of a magnum you have to run a 28"-30" barrel to get it. If you need any more info on the 7 RM feel free to PM me. Good luck
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
You are giving up the cool/latest fad factor for sure. Mine is capable of under .5 moa; shoots 180's easily with a moderate dose of R22; easy to load for; brass life so-so at 6-8 loadings before primer pockets give; no worries about capacity and seating depth like the short mags. Hmmm, making myself question whether I should go to .284 Win when this barrel is done
The short mags are capable of similar velocities with less powder so that is a plus. And maybe smoother mag feeding? I don't mag feed mine so cannot comment.
You are giving up the cool/latest fad factor for sure. Mine is capable of under .5 moa; shoots 180's easily with a moderate dose of R22; easy to load for; brass life so-so at 6-8 loadings before primer pockets give; no worries about capacity and seating depth like the short mags. Hmmm, making myself question whether I should go to .284 Win when this barrel is done
The short mags are capable of similar velocities with less powder so that is a plus. And maybe smoother mag feeding? I don't mag feed mine so cannot comment.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
The "7mag" is highly under-rated as a long range target round.
Strange, being that 300WM got popular, yet the 7 is a better long range cartridge with less recoil ...
Anyway, the 7mag isn't as efficient as some of the newer, shorter and fatter cartridges, but easily hangs with them (and beats them) in ultimate performance.
Learn to load for shoulder headspacing and your golden.
Only thing I don't dig is the long action, and hitting myself in the face with the bolt if I don't pay attention.
The "7mag" is highly under-rated as a long range target round.
Strange, being that 300WM got popular, yet the 7 is a better long range cartridge with less recoil ...
Anyway, the 7mag isn't as efficient as some of the newer, shorter and fatter cartridges, but easily hangs with them (and beats them) in ultimate performance.
Learn to load for shoulder headspacing and your golden.
Only thing I don't dig is the long action, and hitting myself in the face with the bolt if I don't pay attention.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Turbo what do you mean "load for shoulder headspacing." What would I need to do different from reloading, say, a 308?
Does that also mean if I were to build a 7mag then I need to ask for a reamer that uses shoulder headspacing?
Turbo what do you mean "load for shoulder headspacing." What would I need to do different from reloading, say, a 308?
Does that also mean if I were to build a 7mag then I need to ask for a reamer that uses shoulder headspacing?
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turbo what do you mean "load for shoulder headspacing." What would I need to do different from reloading, say, a 308?
Does that also mean if I were to build a 7mag then I need to ask for a reamer that uses shoulder headspacing? </div></div>
Belted mags were designed to HS off the belt. Pretty common/solid wisdom is sizing brass to HS off the shoulder (the traditional way, like most other rifle cartridges) increases accuracy.
It's not difficult, just slightly different...you must carefully set dies to bump the shoulder just right.
Spend a little time researching accuracy reloading for 300WM and you'll learn all about it. I suggest searching 300WM because many more people are "into" 300WM than 7mag.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Turbo what do you mean "load for shoulder headspacing." What would I need to do different from reloading, say, a 308?
Does that also mean if I were to build a 7mag then I need to ask for a reamer that uses shoulder headspacing? </div></div>
Belted mags were designed to HS off the belt. Pretty common/solid wisdom is sizing brass to HS off the shoulder (the traditional way, like most other rifle cartridges) increases accuracy.
It's not difficult, just slightly different...you must carefully set dies to bump the shoulder just right.
Spend a little time researching accuracy reloading for 300WM and you'll learn all about it. I suggest searching 300WM because many more people are "into" 300WM than 7mag.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
^^^^ Thats how mine is chambered. I told the smith and he did whatever was needed. I believe the chamber is relieved around the belt area to keep it from making contact.
^^^^ Thats how mine is chambered. I told the smith and he did whatever was needed. I believe the chamber is relieved around the belt area to keep it from making contact.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^ Thats how mine is chambered. I told the smith and he did whatever was needed. I believe the chamber is relieved around the belt area to keep the it from making contact. </div></div>
Eeek. I goofed, didn't consider it could be addressed directly by chambering.
Post aboved edited to delete misinformation.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">^^^^ Thats how mine is chambered. I told the smith and he did whatever was needed. I believe the chamber is relieved around the belt area to keep the it from making contact. </div></div>
Eeek. I goofed, didn't consider it could be addressed directly by chambering.
Post aboved edited to delete misinformation.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
I'm sorry but I've heard this for years. Don't buy into short fat is better. All that stems from the PPC case in short range BR. That's the world I come from and the PPC dominates for several reasons. Excellent quality brass, the right capacity and has momentum. Several other cases have come and gone which were just as accurate. I was involved with one of them. The 30 American case. 30-30 case with a small primer. Can you say Donaldson Wasp. Old school I know but it worked. We were tired of looking at 220 Russian brass. It shot fine but was a lot of work to form and shorten the case. Disregard the cartridges on the extremes in a particular caliber. As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately.
I'm sorry but I've heard this for years. Don't buy into short fat is better. All that stems from the PPC case in short range BR. That's the world I come from and the PPC dominates for several reasons. Excellent quality brass, the right capacity and has momentum. Several other cases have come and gone which were just as accurate. I was involved with one of them. The 30 American case. 30-30 case with a small primer. Can you say Donaldson Wasp. Old school I know but it worked. We were tired of looking at 220 Russian brass. It shot fine but was a lot of work to form and shorten the case. Disregard the cartridges on the extremes in a particular caliber. As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
I looked into those two also and ended up with the 7mm Mag. Have owned a 7mm RUM and was an awesome shooting long range cartridge. Just a bit too much recoil and was talks about the barrel life on it being complete shit.
Whatever you decide you will enjoy it. They are both great calibers. As long as your happy thats all that matters.
I looked into those two also and ended up with the 7mm Mag. Have owned a 7mm RUM and was an awesome shooting long range cartridge. Just a bit too much recoil and was talks about the barrel life on it being complete shit.
Whatever you decide you will enjoy it. They are both great calibers. As long as your happy thats all that matters.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately. </div></div>
Thats what I was gonna say. I dont get all mixed up over head stamps, any caliber will shoot well if the above three things are in check.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately. </div></div>
Thats what I was gonna say. I dont get all mixed up over head stamps, any caliber will shoot well if the above three things are in check.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Right on but you guys dont make it any easier to decide on which one to get!
I have heard about feeding issues with the short mags in long actions with detachable mags.
On the other hand, I have never reloaded for a belted magnum. Any extra steps involved?
Right on but you guys dont make it any easier to decide on which one to get!
I have heard about feeding issues with the short mags in long actions with detachable mags.
On the other hand, I have never reloaded for a belted magnum. Any extra steps involved?
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Nothing different loading a belted case I have found. If those new 195's are in your future, the extra capacity of the RM is a huge plus. Those with a dose of Retumbo should be wicked. Something to consider.
Nothing different loading a belted case I have found. If those new 195's are in your future, the extra capacity of the RM is a huge plus. Those with a dose of Retumbo should be wicked. Something to consider.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Thanks. I do think the big case would probably do better with the heavy bullets when they show up.
Thanks. I do think the big case would probably do better with the heavy bullets when they show up.
The 162's.......
In a custom 28" will show up at close to 3200 fps with Retumbo and fed 215's.
Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by.
In a custom 28" will show up at close to 3200 fps with Retumbo and fed 215's.
Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by.
Re: The 162's.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so?
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
The only reason to go 7short is if you have a short action... or want the lessor performance of a short case....or want to be stuck with one make of cases.
Whenever I look at a guy running a short action case in a long action rifle I pretty much think, "could of had a V-8".
Reloading magnums?
Ignore the fuking belt already!
Bump the fired case shoulder 0.002-0.003 (or whatever number you like) and that is all. Just like any other case.
Depending on the case manufacturer the actual belt to "headspace measurement" sits another 0.020-0.030 away...Ignore it.
My father taught me basic reloading back in the 1960's. His choice was none other than the "Big Seven". We never had a problem with cases/headspace or needed special equipment...He still shoots his Seven.
Maybe things got more complicated along the way?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
The only reason to go 7short is if you have a short action... or want the lessor performance of a short case....or want to be stuck with one make of cases.
Whenever I look at a guy running a short action case in a long action rifle I pretty much think, "could of had a V-8".
Reloading magnums?
Ignore the fuking belt already!
Bump the fired case shoulder 0.002-0.003 (or whatever number you like) and that is all. Just like any other case.
Depending on the case manufacturer the actual belt to "headspace measurement" sits another 0.020-0.030 away...Ignore it.
My father taught me basic reloading back in the 1960's. His choice was none other than the "Big Seven". We never had a problem with cases/headspace or needed special equipment...He still shoots his Seven.
Maybe things got more complicated along the way?
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry but I've heard this for years. Don't buy into short fat is better. All that stems from the PPC case in short range BR. That's the world I come from and the PPC dominates for several reasons. Excellent quality brass, the right capacity and has momentum. Several other cases have come and gone which were just as accurate. I was involved with one of them. The 30 American case. 30-30 case with a small primer. Can you say Donaldson Wasp. Old school I know but it worked. We were tired of looking at 220 Russian brass. It shot fine but was a lot of work to form and shorten the case. Disregard the cartridges on the extremes in a particular caliber. As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately. </div></div>
Sorry I missed this.
Nothing more need be said.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sorry but I've heard this for years. Don't buy into short fat is better. All that stems from the PPC case in short range BR. That's the world I come from and the PPC dominates for several reasons. Excellent quality brass, the right capacity and has momentum. Several other cases have come and gone which were just as accurate. I was involved with one of them. The 30 American case. 30-30 case with a small primer. Can you say Donaldson Wasp. Old school I know but it worked. We were tired of looking at 220 Russian brass. It shot fine but was a lot of work to form and shorten the case. Disregard the cartridges on the extremes in a particular caliber. As long as you have good brass, a good smith and good bullets everything will shoot accurately. </div></div>
Sorry I missed this.
Nothing more need be said.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Copy all.
Thanks for the info y'all. I'm willing to burn a little more powder for the chance to use the extra capacity when/if the berger 195s come out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suspect that 195gr 7mm Berger is easily going to shoot inside the 338s.</div></div>
I think the 7 mag will get this 195 to at least 2800. If that is true, at my location (about 850', at 59F, 29.92, RH50%) it will have
49"of drift in a 10mph cross at 1000yd,
1500lbs of energy to 900,
and will be supersonic over a mile..1810yds.
I don't own a 338LM, but except for energy these 195s look hard to beat. The numbers for them out of something like a 7STW or 7-300WM would be insane. I just dont think I could handle the barrel life issue on those...I like to shoot too much.
Actually getting these bullets will probably be tougher than hitting something with them. If so, guess I will have to stick with those crappy Berger 180 hybrids I already have
Thanks to all the 7mm fans that have helped me out so far....really appreciate it.
Copy all.
Thanks for the info y'all. I'm willing to burn a little more powder for the chance to use the extra capacity when/if the berger 195s come out.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I suspect that 195gr 7mm Berger is easily going to shoot inside the 338s.</div></div>
I think the 7 mag will get this 195 to at least 2800. If that is true, at my location (about 850', at 59F, 29.92, RH50%) it will have
49"of drift in a 10mph cross at 1000yd,
1500lbs of energy to 900,
and will be supersonic over a mile..1810yds.
I don't own a 338LM, but except for energy these 195s look hard to beat. The numbers for them out of something like a 7STW or 7-300WM would be insane. I just dont think I could handle the barrel life issue on those...I like to shoot too much.
Actually getting these bullets will probably be tougher than hitting something with them. If so, guess I will have to stick with those crappy Berger 180 hybrids I already have
Thanks to all the 7mm fans that have helped me out so far....really appreciate it.
Re: The 162's.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so? </div></div>
My thoughts also.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so? </div></div>
My thoughts also.
Re: The 162's.......
Dave do you think it best to load up a round and give it to one of the reamer manufactures for the chamber reamer? I was thinking Nosler 7 mag brass with the 180 hybrids and hope the throat would work out for the 195s eventually.
Might have shot the barrel out by the time they show anyway.
Dave do you think it best to load up a round and give it to one of the reamer manufactures for the chamber reamer? I was thinking Nosler 7 mag brass with the 180 hybrids and hope the throat would work out for the 195s eventually.
Might have shot the barrel out by the time they show anyway.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
First off, I have a lot of respect for the 7mm Mag. I've even got one around here someplace. I inherited it, the trigger was/is a hunk of rust, and I haven't gotten around to replacing it (M700) yet.
Not a raving fan of magnums and/or the recoil associated with them, and I have no need to go beyond 1Kyd.
Where 7mm is concerned, I think the .280 Rem/7mm Rem Express is sorely underappreciated as a 1Kyd chambering. I think a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip can be driven to, or at least very near to, 1Yyd supersonic. The 168's can probably make it supersonic to 1400yd. That's plenty enough for me.
Off and on, the .280 Rem has been a pet project. I have worked with 120, 140, and 150gr bullets so far, using H4350 and H-4831SC. It seems relatively easy to find accuracy with this case.
Greg
First off, I have a lot of respect for the 7mm Mag. I've even got one around here someplace. I inherited it, the trigger was/is a hunk of rust, and I haven't gotten around to replacing it (M700) yet.
Not a raving fan of magnums and/or the recoil associated with them, and I have no need to go beyond 1Kyd.
Where 7mm is concerned, I think the .280 Rem/7mm Rem Express is sorely underappreciated as a 1Kyd chambering. I think a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip can be driven to, or at least very near to, 1Yyd supersonic. The 168's can probably make it supersonic to 1400yd. That's plenty enough for me.
Off and on, the .280 Rem has been a pet project. I have worked with 120, 140, and 150gr bullets so far, using H4350 and H-4831SC. It seems relatively easy to find accuracy with this case.
Greg
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
Of course you are right Greg...I have some weapons I need, and some that I "want."
I was going to build the slightly more practical and efficient 284, very similar to your 280, but then I heard the little extra bit of performance calling my name. I will pay for that in barrel life and recoil. If I had plans of competing hard every other weekend in tactical comps I would go with less recoil and powder and more barrel life.
As it is, this was a compromise, as are most decisions, and just sounds crazy fun. I mostly shoot 308s right now for long range, and the 7mag will cut the wind drift in half at a thousand. Any of the 7s will be a big improvement, though I will always shoot my 308 I love it.
This 7 mag would definitely get it done at a 1000 or more with authority. My question here related to accuracy...I just can't stand a rifle that won't easily outshoot me. I want this thing to be a hammer.
Of course you are right Greg...I have some weapons I need, and some that I "want."
I was going to build the slightly more practical and efficient 284, very similar to your 280, but then I heard the little extra bit of performance calling my name. I will pay for that in barrel life and recoil. If I had plans of competing hard every other weekend in tactical comps I would go with less recoil and powder and more barrel life.
As it is, this was a compromise, as are most decisions, and just sounds crazy fun. I mostly shoot 308s right now for long range, and the 7mag will cut the wind drift in half at a thousand. Any of the 7s will be a big improvement, though I will always shoot my 308 I love it.
This 7 mag would definitely get it done at a 1000 or more with authority. My question here related to accuracy...I just can't stand a rifle that won't easily outshoot me. I want this thing to be a hammer.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
My thinking on wind drift is this: it's always gonna be with you regardless of the chambering.
I figure we either manage it or we don't; and honestly, I don't put so much store in enlisting rip-snortin' ballistics as a hedge against a bad wind call. You either nail it or you don't.
Small consolation that sometimes you manage to snag an extra point or two. If you're like me, the score isn't the thing, getting the call right is what satisfies.
I have never competed against anyone but myself. I may or may not shake out near the top, but my own performance is the only one that actually interests me.
I recognize my opposition, and recognize that whatever I use, <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> competitor is always going to be using the same equipment as I use. It makes no sense to me to be using something that's unpleasant to use, or that's going to cost me more in order to enjoy more punishment. I can never win that arms race, because my only real opponent can never be beaten in that area. For me, the question has always been about how I use what I've got, and not about what it happens to be.
So I might as well keep it more toward the pleasant and simple side.
Greg
My thinking on wind drift is this: it's always gonna be with you regardless of the chambering.
I figure we either manage it or we don't; and honestly, I don't put so much store in enlisting rip-snortin' ballistics as a hedge against a bad wind call. You either nail it or you don't.
Small consolation that sometimes you manage to snag an extra point or two. If you're like me, the score isn't the thing, getting the call right is what satisfies.
I have never competed against anyone but myself. I may or may not shake out near the top, but my own performance is the only one that actually interests me.
I recognize my opposition, and recognize that whatever I use, <span style="font-style: italic">that</span> competitor is always going to be using the same equipment as I use. It makes no sense to me to be using something that's unpleasant to use, or that's going to cost me more in order to enjoy more punishment. I can never win that arms race, because my only real opponent can never be beaten in that area. For me, the question has always been about how I use what I've got, and not about what it happens to be.
So I might as well keep it more toward the pleasant and simple side.
Greg
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
I understand Greg. Its also how I approach my professional life. It really is the indian and not the arrow. But, with all that being said, regardless of the quality of my wind call I will hit more long range MOA sized targets with a better performing round. Those hits are fun, and while I take training seriously, I can always stand having even more fun. First round cold bore hits are extra fun and I will have more capability to make them. Otherwise we would all still shoot the original long range buffalo guns like the .45-110. I seriously doubt the 7mag will make it so easy to make hits that I cant learn wind calling lol. Besides, you can learn from hits as well as misses
Speaking of buffalo guns some of the funnest shooting I have is blowing stuff up short range with an 18in .45-70 with 405 grain flatnose. Trust me, with heavy handloads the recoil in that little open sight gun is more than enough to wake you up in the morning, and more than a 7mag can dish out for sure.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I think my question has been answered: the wisdom so far is that there is no reason to expect worse accuracy from the 7mag than the short mags if the reloading and smithing and shooting is done the same.
I understand Greg. Its also how I approach my professional life. It really is the indian and not the arrow. But, with all that being said, regardless of the quality of my wind call I will hit more long range MOA sized targets with a better performing round. Those hits are fun, and while I take training seriously, I can always stand having even more fun. First round cold bore hits are extra fun and I will have more capability to make them. Otherwise we would all still shoot the original long range buffalo guns like the .45-110. I seriously doubt the 7mag will make it so easy to make hits that I cant learn wind calling lol. Besides, you can learn from hits as well as misses
Speaking of buffalo guns some of the funnest shooting I have is blowing stuff up short range with an 18in .45-70 with 405 grain flatnose. Trust me, with heavy handloads the recoil in that little open sight gun is more than enough to wake you up in the morning, and more than a 7mag can dish out for sure.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I think my question has been answered: the wisdom so far is that there is no reason to expect worse accuracy from the 7mag than the short mags if the reloading and smithing and shooting is done the same.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Where 7mm is concerned, I think the .280 Rem/7mm Rem Express is sorely underappreciated as a 1Kyd chambering. I think a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip can be driven to, or at least very near to, 1Yyd supersonic. The 168's can probably make it supersonic to 1400yd. That's plenty enough for me.
Off and on, the .280 Rem has been a pet project. I have worked with 120, 140, and 150gr bullets so far, using H4350 and H-4831SC. It seems relatively easy to find accuracy with this case.
Greg </div></div>
There's a lot of truth in that post.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Where 7mm is concerned, I think the .280 Rem/7mm Rem Express is sorely underappreciated as a 1Kyd chambering. I think a Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip can be driven to, or at least very near to, 1Yyd supersonic. The 168's can probably make it supersonic to 1400yd. That's plenty enough for me.
Off and on, the .280 Rem has been a pet project. I have worked with 120, 140, and 150gr bullets so far, using H4350 and H-4831SC. It seems relatively easy to find accuracy with this case.
Greg </div></div>
There's a lot of truth in that post.
Re: The 162's.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave do you think it best to load up a round and give it to one of the reamer manufactures for the chamber reamer? I was thinking Nosler 7 mag brass with the 180 hybrids and hope the throat would work out for the 195s eventually.
Might have shot the barrel out by the time they show anyway. </div></div>
If you are going to build a repeater then it might be worth your time to investigate this just like you said. Those 195s are going to be long. I am a big fan of the 7rm but if you are wanting to shoot those big pills as a repeater OAL may not be your only concern. You dont want to seat them down below the olgive no matter how your chamber is cut. The Dakota is another option just to muddy the water a little for ya. I dont have one nor have I ever seen one but I know they are shorter than a 7rm and more powder than a wssm.
T
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dave do you think it best to load up a round and give it to one of the reamer manufactures for the chamber reamer? I was thinking Nosler 7 mag brass with the 180 hybrids and hope the throat would work out for the 195s eventually.
Might have shot the barrel out by the time they show anyway. </div></div>
If you are going to build a repeater then it might be worth your time to investigate this just like you said. Those 195s are going to be long. I am a big fan of the 7rm but if you are wanting to shoot those big pills as a repeater OAL may not be your only concern. You dont want to seat them down below the olgive no matter how your chamber is cut. The Dakota is another option just to muddy the water a little for ya. I dont have one nor have I ever seen one but I know they are shorter than a 7rm and more powder than a wssm.
T
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
</div></div>
I think that has more to do with the shooter
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
I think that has more to do with the shooter
Re: The 162's.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so? </div></div>
My thoughts also.
</div></div>
Dave,
I understand the Min Sammi spec thing and run that on all my reamers. Seems like a good starting point to me.
What is the normal throat dia for a 7mm and what are your thoughts on the .2845 neck and how it relates to function?
I have tried tight necks and seem no difference in any way I can measure and am curios as to your take.
Thanks in advance!
Good to have you here!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scout 1983</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...Minimum saami spec match chamer with .2845 throat dia eliminates a lot of gas blow by. </div></div>
Interesting...how so? </div></div>
My thoughts also.
</div></div>
Dave,
I understand the Min Sammi spec thing and run that on all my reamers. Seems like a good starting point to me.
What is the normal throat dia for a 7mm and what are your thoughts on the .2845 neck and how it relates to function?
I have tried tight necks and seem no difference in any way I can measure and am curios as to your take.
Thanks in advance!
Good to have you here!
Re: The 162's.......
There is some advantage to more efficient powder burn with short mags, but there isn't anything wrong with the 7mm rem mag. The hunting crowds and precision shooting circles can be different, but 7mm rem mag gets the job done.
There is some advantage to more efficient powder burn with short mags, but there isn't anything wrong with the 7mm rem mag. The hunting crowds and precision shooting circles can be different, but 7mm rem mag gets the job done.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
</div></div>
Ive heard that 7mmRM, 168VLD, Retumbo combo works pretty good....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sendero_man</div><div class="ubbcode-body">posted before, but...
Factory Rem. Sendero original model
Jewell trigger and recrowned are only changes.
7RM with 168 Bergers at 3040 fps... any questions...
Ive heard that 7mmRM, 168VLD, Retumbo combo works pretty good....
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
</div></div> My 280 ai gets to 1000 @ 6.6. 5.6 is insanely flat. That is cool as hell. what is the 500 number?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
</div></div> My 280 ai gets to 1000 @ 6.6. 5.6 is insanely flat. That is cool as hell. what is the 500 number?
Re: The 162's.......
X-Fan
The older I get the lazier I get and except for an honest to goodness target rifle I'll never have another tight neck chamber. SAAMI specs are .2845" for the freebore diameter with a 3 degree lead angle. I don't like either. I would go to .2850" and 1 1/2 degree lead, no more than 2 degrees. Tolerances stack up and it's not hard to get an interference fit in throat if you're not careful. Tight freebores sound like they should work but as the barrel ages the start of the freebore at the end of the neck erodes, builds up carbon and can cause pressure variations and lead to inconsistnt accuracy. Constant diligent cleaning is required and the tactical crowd isn't known for either. The larger the powder charge the more room you need. I believe that shooting long heavy bullets has its own unique set of problems as the bullets enters the bore.
X-Fan
The older I get the lazier I get and except for an honest to goodness target rifle I'll never have another tight neck chamber. SAAMI specs are .2845" for the freebore diameter with a 3 degree lead angle. I don't like either. I would go to .2850" and 1 1/2 degree lead, no more than 2 degrees. Tolerances stack up and it's not hard to get an interference fit in throat if you're not careful. Tight freebores sound like they should work but as the barrel ages the start of the freebore at the end of the neck erodes, builds up carbon and can cause pressure variations and lead to inconsistnt accuracy. Constant diligent cleaning is required and the tactical crowd isn't known for either. The larger the powder charge the more room you need. I believe that shooting long heavy bullets has its own unique set of problems as the bullets enters the bore.
Re: Is the 7RM as accurate as the short 7 mags?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the TRG mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
</div></div> My 280 ai gets to 1000 @ 6.6. 5.6 is insanely flat. That is cool as hell. what is the 500 number? </div></div>
Shooter BP shows 2.1 mils from the 100Y zero to 500Y. At 7150DA the air is pretty thin + the high BC makes for a flat shooting rifle. 1000y shows 6 mils.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toddconley</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Title says it all. I have a surgeon long action and DBM for a build intended for a 7saum... But is there any reason to not build the straight rem mag? what am I giving up by just building the original??
</div></div>
I can't comment on 7SAUM but here's the load I use in my SAKO TRG42 in a match chambered 7mmRM. Maybe this will give you an idea of what to expect.
28" Benchmark 9 twist throated for 180 class bullets.
45 degrees out,7150 DA,5.6 mils at 960Y.
Winchester brass,Fed 215 primers,70.5 grains Retumbo( compressed load),176 grain Cautericio's (OACL 3.420") gives 3040 fps determined from actual come ups and showed 3"s vertcal at 960Y. Later on I chrono'd with a Oehler 35P, 3040 fps was correct.
Pressure signs in my SAKO TRG42 began at 71 grains with slight bolt lift resistance and slight primer flow, so work your way up slowly starting at 68 grains.
There's plenty of room in the TRG mag for the 180 class bullets to be seated out much farther. Next time around I'll have the barrel throated deeper which would be better for the Berger 195's too.
One thing is for sure. 7RM feeds like butter out of a SAKO 300WM magazine. I imagine they would out of AI 300WM as well.
</div></div> My 280 ai gets to 1000 @ 6.6. 5.6 is insanely flat. That is cool as hell. what is the 500 number? </div></div>
Shooter BP shows 2.1 mils from the 100Y zero to 500Y. At 7150DA the air is pretty thin + the high BC makes for a flat shooting rifle. 1000y shows 6 mils.
Re: The 162's.......
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">X-Fan
The older I get the lazier I get and except for an honest to goodness target rifle I'll never have another tight neck chamber. SAAMI specs are .2845" for the freebore diameter with a 3 degree lead angle. I don't like either. I would go to .2850" and 1 1/2 degree lead, no more than 2 degrees. Tolerances stack up and it's not hard to get an interference fit in throat if you're not careful. Tight freebores sound like they should work but as the barrel ages the start of the freebore at the end of the neck erodes, builds up carbon and can cause pressure variations and lead to inconsistnt accuracy. Constant diligent cleaning is required and the tactical crowd isn't known for either. The larger the powder charge the more room you need. I believe that shooting long heavy bullets has its own unique set of problems as the bullets enters the bore. </div></div>
Thanks Dave.
just learned something there!...I Never really considered the ramifications of tolerances in the throat area and always though the carbon problem was more in the start of the rifling...Shows what I know!
I do find it amusing how much discussion revolves around the bench rest and FClass forums about carbon fouling.
Tactical guys on the other hand worry about over cleaning their rifles.."Every 400 rounds is good!"
I have always been pretty ruthless with ISSO and jb Bore paste, but after owning a nail driving 6mmbr I am a lot quicker to get on the throat.
I think a lot of guys start out with sub 1/4 inch guns and quickly turn them in to 1/2 inch plus rifles. I did the same with my 6mmbr and if not for a bud looking over my shoulder I would still be shooting heavy 1/2 inch groups.
Now can you do anything about my rapidly disappearing lead?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">X-Fan
The older I get the lazier I get and except for an honest to goodness target rifle I'll never have another tight neck chamber. SAAMI specs are .2845" for the freebore diameter with a 3 degree lead angle. I don't like either. I would go to .2850" and 1 1/2 degree lead, no more than 2 degrees. Tolerances stack up and it's not hard to get an interference fit in throat if you're not careful. Tight freebores sound like they should work but as the barrel ages the start of the freebore at the end of the neck erodes, builds up carbon and can cause pressure variations and lead to inconsistnt accuracy. Constant diligent cleaning is required and the tactical crowd isn't known for either. The larger the powder charge the more room you need. I believe that shooting long heavy bullets has its own unique set of problems as the bullets enters the bore. </div></div>
Thanks Dave.
just learned something there!...I Never really considered the ramifications of tolerances in the throat area and always though the carbon problem was more in the start of the rifling...Shows what I know!
I do find it amusing how much discussion revolves around the bench rest and FClass forums about carbon fouling.
Tactical guys on the other hand worry about over cleaning their rifles.."Every 400 rounds is good!"
I have always been pretty ruthless with ISSO and jb Bore paste, but after owning a nail driving 6mmbr I am a lot quicker to get on the throat.
I think a lot of guys start out with sub 1/4 inch guns and quickly turn them in to 1/2 inch plus rifles. I did the same with my 6mmbr and if not for a bud looking over my shoulder I would still be shooting heavy 1/2 inch groups.
Now can you do anything about my rapidly disappearing lead?
Re: The 162's.......
64.5 h 4831. With a 180 Berger gives me 1 moa group at 200 yards from an aw of a bipod with 20 to 25 gusts from left to right in my AW rifle in 7 mm rem mag.
GAP barrel target dot was slightly visible secondary to mirage . So yes it is accurate at 100 it is a solid 1/2 moa rifle in any conceivable type of conditions.
64.5 h 4831. With a 180 Berger gives me 1 moa group at 200 yards from an aw of a bipod with 20 to 25 gusts from left to right in my AW rifle in 7 mm rem mag.
GAP barrel target dot was slightly visible secondary to mirage . So yes it is accurate at 100 it is a solid 1/2 moa rifle in any conceivable type of conditions.
Re: The 162's.......
Here's what I'm talking about in the throat. The first one is a 338LM Imp, S/S barrel with 1173 rounds through it. Actually doesn't look too bad right there but it belonged to an anal engineer who is obsessed with cleaning.
The second photo is a 308W, 5207 rounds. Belonged to an LE guy, former Marine.
Third photo, same 308W barrel, shows you what happens even with S/S barrels if you put them away dirty.
Sorry for getting off topic but I just can't pass up a clean shot at the tactical guys who think you don't have to clean except on the winter solstice.
Here's what I'm talking about in the throat. The first one is a 338LM Imp, S/S barrel with 1173 rounds through it. Actually doesn't look too bad right there but it belonged to an anal engineer who is obsessed with cleaning.
The second photo is a 308W, 5207 rounds. Belonged to an LE guy, former Marine.
Third photo, same 308W barrel, shows you what happens even with S/S barrels if you put them away dirty.
Sorry for getting off topic but I just can't pass up a clean shot at the tactical guys who think you don't have to clean except on the winter solstice.
Re: The 162's.......
Dave is that fire cracking? Can you explain what you are seeing for those of us without experience on a borescope?
Appreciate your contribution to the thread!
Dave is that fire cracking? Can you explain what you are seeing for those of us without experience on a borescope?
Appreciate your contribution to the thread!
Re: The 162's.......
In regards to the top two pictures. The neck area is far right. Then the freebore section. The leading edge from the neck to the freebore takes the worst abuse. That's the small gas cuts you see and the shiny stuff is carbon. Ahead of the freebore you see the normal heat checking that comes with age. Once either the heat checking or the carbon starts happening in a barrel you have to start using abrasive cleaners from time to time to manage the roughness. If you don't then this happens. Pic below. The heat checking strips off jacket material and lays it down on top of and in the cracks. That's a land in the middle of the pic. You can see copper in the cracks in the grooves also. Once that occurs you can't get it clean again and it will never shoot as good as it once did. That picture was taken 21" from the chamber end of the barrel. That is why I don't recommend rechambering barrels.
If you look closely at the top picture (338)you can see the depth of the gas cutting on the 45 degree transition from the neck to the freebore. No so bad on the 308W.
In regards to the top two pictures. The neck area is far right. Then the freebore section. The leading edge from the neck to the freebore takes the worst abuse. That's the small gas cuts you see and the shiny stuff is carbon. Ahead of the freebore you see the normal heat checking that comes with age. Once either the heat checking or the carbon starts happening in a barrel you have to start using abrasive cleaners from time to time to manage the roughness. If you don't then this happens. Pic below. The heat checking strips off jacket material and lays it down on top of and in the cracks. That's a land in the middle of the pic. You can see copper in the cracks in the grooves also. Once that occurs you can't get it clean again and it will never shoot as good as it once did. That picture was taken 21" from the chamber end of the barrel. That is why I don't recommend rechambering barrels.
If you look closely at the top picture (338)you can see the depth of the gas cutting on the 45 degree transition from the neck to the freebore. No so bad on the 308W.
Re: The 162's.......
Copy all Dave. I have to admit I dont clean my 308 after every session, as it takes about 10-20 rounds to settle down again...at least the way I clean it. I clean every 250 rounds or so...sounds like you would think that is far too long.
What do you do to clean, as in what products, and how often do you recommend?
Copy all Dave. I have to admit I dont clean my 308 after every session, as it takes about 10-20 rounds to settle down again...at least the way I clean it. I clean every 250 rounds or so...sounds like you would think that is far too long.
What do you do to clean, as in what products, and how often do you recommend?
Re: The 162's.......
I try never to put a rifle away dirty. S/S barrels are OK for a few days. CM start to rust as soon as they cool off. The powder fouling attracts moisture and traps it against the steel. I use a variety of cleaning products and don't want to slight any of the manufactures. I use a combination powder solvent with ammonia and I have an extreme ammonia cleaner for stubborn copper. I use either Flitz, Iosso bore paste or JB on a tight patch to work on the heat checking and carbon fouling.
How aggresive I get cleaning depends on the caliber, age of the barrel and how severe the shooting session had been.
I try never to put a rifle away dirty. S/S barrels are OK for a few days. CM start to rust as soon as they cool off. The powder fouling attracts moisture and traps it against the steel. I use a variety of cleaning products and don't want to slight any of the manufactures. I use a combination powder solvent with ammonia and I have an extreme ammonia cleaner for stubborn copper. I use either Flitz, Iosso bore paste or JB on a tight patch to work on the heat checking and carbon fouling.
How aggresive I get cleaning depends on the caliber, age of the barrel and how severe the shooting session had been.
Re: The 162's.......
The problem I have with carbon fouling is figuring out when I have it clean...Generally I go until the patch slides freely and smoothly, but I admit this is a bit of a crap-shoot for me.
Any thoughts or pointers Dave?
The problem I have with carbon fouling is figuring out when I have it clean...Generally I go until the patch slides freely and smoothly, but I admit this is a bit of a crap-shoot for me.
Any thoughts or pointers Dave?
