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Advanced Marksmanship Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

J

JimGnitecki

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 24, 2011
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Austin, TX
I have been looking for a good DVD on precision rifle shooting that could show me details of things like proper position, breath control, natural point of aim, recoil management, wind management, mirage, etc.

The only one I have found in online searches so far is the just-being-released Magpul "Art of the Precision Rifle". But, when I examine the table of contents for that on the Magpul website (under "specs"), the TOC mentions everything EXCEPT proper position, bretah control, NPOA, mirage! It does cover wind management, but not any of the other topics I listed.

Is there a DVD series that DOES cover all the basics along with the issues that are unique to precision rifle (versus carbine)?

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

treebasher: While I am aware of the onlien training, and have read good things about it, I am concerned about using any "online" service, as explained below.

It would probably work with the bandwidth I have at the office, but I cannot do it at the office. I have to do it in the evening at home.

At home, my Internet access is via RV park wi-fi. That access slows waaaaay down in the evening when people stream movies, and in fact soemtimes comes to a "halt" for minutes or even hours at a time, as the RV park's system gets overwhelmed by the volume. Any training that is either "live" online or requires large downloads is an issue, unless the downloads can be scheduled for nighttime hours and then used at other times.

How does the Sniper's Hide online training work? Could I use it given the constraints above?

This is why I am looking for a DVD-based solution.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

No video training system is a substitute for a live training session. While the video may explain a subject, even in great detail, you still don't see your own errors. It's a nice referance to go back to AFTER having received proper instruction.

Certain elements, such as use of the Mil reticle can be done quite well with a video and some practice, since it's not really affected by minor errors in technique. Others, such as the elements of a proper position, might show the concepts quite well, but that does not mean you can apply them.

I'm not saying video traing has no value, but one should understand the limitations. Mental concepts come across pretty well, physical processes don't transfer from the video well at all.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Check out David Tubbs Videos. The boy knows long range shooting

David Tubbs

Gives you an ideal, but nothing beats actual shooting. A coach would be handy but not always availiable
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I examined the descriptions for the Tubbs series yesterday. They are pretty "targeted": 1 for hunters, 1 for Highpower Competition, etc. Nothing that starts with the basics of rifle shooting. Still looking.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

You can technically start loading the videos on online training by pressing play and then pause... Then wait overnight for it to fully load and in the morning or next day watch it, as long as you don't turn of the computer.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Jim,

I just got done watching the Magpul "Art of the Precision Rifle" DVD's. I can honestly assure you that what you are looking for is in it.

The points that you mentioned you wanted specifics on are....the fundamentals of precision rifle shooting. In closing, what you are looking for is there, it just may not be on the contents. The director of precision rifle for Magpul is Caylen Wojick, and he knows his shit!! Really knows how to break down into Layman's terms also. I went through his class last year, and won my first match I entered after going through his program. Now that he is employed by Magpul, what he trains is available to the consumer to watch on TV. The DVD's are no substitute to having him coach you through it in person, but it is a great precursor prior to taking his class.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm509</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim,

I just got done watching the Magpul "Art of the Precision Rifle" DVD's. I can honestly assure you that what you are looking for is in it.

The points that you mentioned you wanted specifics on are....the fundamentals of precision rifle shooting. In closing, what you are looking for is there, it just may not be on the contents. The director of precision rifle for Magpul is Caylen Wojick, and he knows his shit!! Really knows how to break down into Layman's terms also. I went through his class last year, and won my first match I entered after going through his program. Now that he is employed by Magpul, what he trains is available to the consumer to watch on TV. The DVD's are no substitute to having him coach you through it in person, but it is a great precursor prior to taking his class.

Hope this helps. </div></div>

Hey, that's GREAT news. Based on your comments, I'll buy the DVD and spend the time (10 hours!). Thank-you.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm509</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jim,

I just got done watching the Magpul "Art of the Precision Rifle" DVD's. I can honestly assure you that what you are looking for is in it.

The points that you mentioned you wanted specifics on are....the fundamentals of precision rifle shooting. In closing, what you are looking for is there, it just may not be on the contents. The director of precision rifle for Magpul is Caylen Wojick, and he knows his shit!! Really knows how to break down into Layman's terms also. I went through his class last year, and won my first match I entered after going through his program. Now that he is employed by Magpul, what he trains is available to the consumer to watch on TV. The DVD's are no substitute to having him coach you through it in person, but it is a great precursor prior to taking his class.

Hope this helps. </div></div>

Hey, that's GREAT news. Based on your comments, I'll buy the DVD and spend the time (10 hours!). Thank-you.

Jim G </div></div>


Makes me really happy mine should be here tomorrow
grin.gif
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I was on the fence about buying this as well, but this new bit of information has pushed me to buy the Magpul video. Thanks.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I just got done watching disc 1 and 2. So far I can say this is the best MAGPUL video I have seen. So much more useful info than the carbine or other titles.

Todd Hodnett is the real deal. Sometimes he can be a little long winded and a little unclear but its well worth the 60 bucks.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Todd can be a whole lot long winded!! Listening to him and all the bs about horus and their damn pda could have seen alot more editing.

I still stand behind my comments about Caylen 100%, and if you pay attention to the drills he runs costa through in disc 3, and listen to the fundamentals, "natural point of aim" "loading the bipod (although i like the way Caylen teaches better in terms of consistency)" etc, also listen for terms like d.a. (density altitude), cosine of wind and angle fire, etc you can take alot from these dvd's.

Now if you think you will come away from these as an advanced shooter ready to go out and start winning 6 figure a year shooting contracts.....that probably isnt gonna happen. But if you are looking for a shooting class that you can watch on tv here it is at a big discounted rate from a 4 day shooting class, here it is.

I really could have done with alot less Hodnett, horus and the pda. I do think Magpul will have something else in regards to this in the near future.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Shawn Carlock has made a really good DVD. It's called Long Range Hunting. It mainly deals with how to do long range hunting, but is very well done and will give you a lot of great information to help you shoot at any range.

Long Range Hunting DVD
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NorwegianViking</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magpul Dynamics&#153; The Art of the Precision Rifle</div></div> +1
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Lots of good stuff in the dvd set. but i found the information on disc 3 to be more applicable to my equipment as i dont have a horus reticle.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Wow really? I thought it was quite underwhelming , and that If you are looking for info on long range you should look no further that Snipers hide, the magpul vid in my opinion was a commercial for horus, and atrag software. I’d give the vids a 3 out of 10
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Yeah they did push the horus reticle pretty hard.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

The ATRAG info is just as compatible with any ballistic software or iphone app. The main things to take away is how they used the transonic zero to TRUE the curve data of their range cards. This method of confirming and fine tuning your velocity and BC was pretty cool from my point of view.

As far as all the Horus hype. All that info on wind holds is just as applicable if you have a GEN2XR or any other wind hold / Xmas tree style retical. I don't see why this was controversial.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

lowlight and company has some good stuff on you tube, explained in a practical way that's usually pretty easy to understand.

i'm not to much of a computer guru, but i imagine there's a way of downloading it and putting it on a disk.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I love what I am learning just from the "rifle setup" and "zeroing" sections of the 1st disk.

I have played some sections 3 or 4 times to catch all the details, as the script often moves quickly and sometimes the quieter comments are lost in the background. Excellent knowledge transfer when you focus on the words and the video more than once.

I think I am going to get a lot out of this DVD set.

I agree that the Horus discussion is merely an illustrative example of how a reticle can be used effectively, regardless of type. Note how the instructor also solved one shooter's 20 MOA plus 20 MOA = too much rail & ring slope equipment problem by having him use a different "zero point". Very nice "field solution".

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JimGnitecki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">treebasher: While I am aware of the onlien training, and have read good things about it, I am concerned about using any "online" service, as explained below.

It would probably work with the bandwidth I have at the office, but I cannot do it at the office. I have to do it in the evening at home.

At home, my Internet access is via RV park wi-fi. That access slows waaaaay down in the evening when people stream movies, and in fact soemtimes comes to a "halt" for minutes or even hours at a time, as the RV park's system gets overwhelmed by the volume. Any training that is either "live" online or requires large downloads is an issue, unless the downloads can be scheduled for nighttime hours and then used at other times.

How does the Sniper's Hide online training work? Could I use it given the constraints above?

This is why I am looking for a DVD-based solution.

Jim G </div></div>

The Magpul video is good, but the on line training is 10x better IMHO and this is coming from a guy that CAN'T watch anything on his dial-up (24k connection) at home. I'd watch it at work when I had the time or stay after for the few minutes it took. I could access the printed word that many of the lessons come with just no video.

My shooting took leaps and bounds forward and many of the best improvements learned on the on-line training here were not even mentioned on the Magpul video, others vaguely referenced but not demonstrated and/or even contradicted a few clips later.

If Texas ever moves closer to Michigan I will train at Rifles Only, or more likely I will build up enough leave time at work that I can spare time away from the family with out robbing them of a vacation to attend a class but that will take a few years yet.
frown.gif
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Many of the lessons depicted on the discs can be applied to most ballistic solver applications but I admit I haven't played with them all. It just so happens that Atrag has a function built in to it that allows you to tune your muzzle velocity to your observed impacts. You can accomplish this same result by stepping your muzzle velocity up or down until the DOPE matches your results with all three of the applications currently available on iTunes. The only thing truly proprietary going on with Atrag is their advertised hybrid ballistic coefficient that is based off of data compiled by doppler testing conducted by the late Bill Davis, or so I'm told.

Since then, experimental data has been collected by other ballisticians and made available in at least two of the programs available for your phone or ipod. Droid users have access to this information too on one app that I know of. All values are given in Bryan Litz's book if you care to use another platform and solver you enjoy. The Accuracy 1st whiz wheel solver's BC is based on G7 data, not the Horus proprietary value.

While there was a lot of emphasis placed on explaining the system that was in use, it was the system in use that Accuracy 1st works with so naturally the Horus system is quite prevalent in the first two discs. The lessons explained from truing to field zeros can be applied to any ballistic solver that works. I have conducted enough range testing on my own to be satisfied with the interface and the output values from four or five other programs. There is more than one way to skin the cat; depicted in the video is one.

As a side note, I have nothing for or against Horus reticles or their system in general any more than I prefer bolt guns to gas guns. They are a tool that in my opinion (which amounts to pretty much nothing lol) have a feature set that lend to some situations more than others.

For the kind of shooting I do, I have no qualms with dialing turrets vs holds. I don't expect my turrets to produce the exact values they say they do any more than I expect my F150 to get 14mpg in town like the sticker said. I box test all my scopes and have found applications that suit my taste and allow me to enter that calibration factor into a specific firearm's profile.

It's not like I feel like a manufacturer is lying to me, it just means that to get the results downrange that I want I have a little more to consider and need to take some more time in the setup but to me its all part of the fun. I enjoy the details and get to learn more about the craft as I go. To buke a way of doing things based on the simple fact we have to rely on man made mechanical devices to accomplish what we want and some error may be introduced is silly. So what? So I have to spend a little more time learning about my gear and what it can really be expected to do. The rifle I used during the entire course had a Gen II Mildot reticle in it and I never once felt like I was unprepared due to equipment selection. I don't own a scope that has a Horus reticle in it but that doesn't mean I wouldn't buy one. I've got a few builds in mind for this coming season that I think would work well with a Tremor 2 or H58/59...

All that being said I can think of plenty of situations that a pure holds system is the ticket! The extra refined aiming references that the variety of Horus reticles offer make the task more palatable. I think they've done a great job with some of the newer reticles and they try to keep improving them.

They have sand wedges for a reason in golf. They make drivers and 3 irons too... They're all just tools.

Anything that gets my students and friends home in one piece from deployment is good kit as far as I'm concerned.

I wish all of you the best that have decided to try out the DVD and see if it has anything to offer you.

Best,
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I appreciate all the positive feedback in reference to the online training, there is <span style="text-decoration: underline">a ton of great information</span> in the Online Training forum, with over 40 - 10 minute videos. Between Jacob and Myself we cover a points in fine details starting with the <span style="font-weight: bold">Fundamentals of Marksmanship</span> all the way to some advanced concepts to include moving targets, wind, angles, etc.

I can certainly appreciate the problems with viewing them on a slow / dial up type connection. This is certainly a limiting factor, my only recommendation would be to try starting a video before leaving for work and coming home to downloaded video. At 10 minutes they aren't very long but certainly can be a slow load because of the HD Quality we use.

A month or so back I did <span style="font-style: italic">"teaser"</span> trailer and a lot of people were emailing, posting comments and asking to hear what I was saying in the trailer. So I decided to remove the music and change up the trailer to provide a more accurate representation of how the videos look and sound. <span style="font-style: italic">(Although there is a color filter on the teaser video clips)</span> The lessons shown are a couple of slightly different ones from the original video. We do cover other ballistic programs, as I try to highlight not only iPhone Apps but also dedicated products like Field Firing Solutions, to include calibration and adjusting them to match your actual drop.

So, here is a clip, if you have the ability to view the videos online, they have a great following and a lot of people seem to really enjoy them. We've been doing it for more than 2 years now and it's been great.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/JSA8OPDOYrI?hd=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Like the new trailer much better frank, looking forward to signing up when i finish some things and have some money to spare.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Just so I am clear, if I sign up for the online training in the forum, I get access to all the videos produced to date? Or is it one video a month?

I just looked at the subscriptions option in my stuff. There is a $140 and then $10.00. So it's $140 up front and then $10 a month? Don't really have a problem with $140, just want to make sure I get more access than 3 days worth. Make sense?


Regards,
Greyson
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

You get access to 100% which is the reason for the $140...

It's a forum like any other on here, except with a stack of sticky topics which are the lessons. So along with 100 % of the lessons, you can discuss, Question & Answer in that specific lesson or make a new Thread to discuss something you want to know we didn't address or to clarify.

It can technically be considered interactive because we respond to questions about what is presented.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Thanks for the clarification and I feel bad you responded on New Years day.

Regards,
Greyson
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I paid for the online training yesterday and can't wait until it gets unlocked, I keep checking every few hours. I got the idea I will get billed another $10 after 3 days and then another $10 30 days later. I'll comment on them after I watch a few.
Josh
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Josh Elam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I paid for the online training yesterday and can't wait until it gets unlocked, I keep checking every few hours. I got the idea I will get billed another $10 after 3 days and then another $10 30 days later. I'll comment on them after I watch a few.
Josh </div></div>

You paid by eCheck so it takes a bit for Pay Pal to authorize it, part of the limitation of the system.

It will clear and then you can move forward...
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I signed up a few hours ago and it was unlocked immediately.


Regards,
Greyson

 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Im signing up. Its hard enough to get to courses these days.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

its best to look through military training manuals and pick it up as you go. a DVD you can watch once and forget a ton of, if you read Army FM 3-22.9 (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) it'll explain positions and breath cycles, trigger pull, sight picture... etc all very important things. just keep in mind you're going to make your OWN modifications to anything you watch or read in order to be more comfortable shooting. less muscle use is going to help. at least take a look at it on google
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VonReich</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its best to look through military training manuals and pick it up as you go. a DVD you can watch once and forget a ton of, if you read Army FM 3-22.9 (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) it'll explain positions and breath cycles, trigger pull, sight picture... etc all very important things. just keep in mind you're going to make your OWN modifications to anything you watch or read in order to be more comfortable shooting. less muscle use is going to help. at least take a look at it on google </div></div>

I've done that too. The biggest issue I have with reading ALONE is that you don't get to SEE proper position, form, and speed. I like to do BOTH reading and video, even though I personally prefer reading.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mm509</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I still stand behind my comments about Caylen 100%, and if you pay attention to the drills he runs costa through in disc 3, and listen to the fundamentals, "natural point of aim" "loading the bipod (although i like the way Caylen teaches better in terms of consistency)" etc, also listen for terms like d.a. (density altitude), cosine of wind and angle fire, etc you can take alot from these dvd's.
</div></div>

He was certainly the highlight of the package.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I also went with the Magpul Dynamics Presicion dvd and it was worth every penny, Todd and Caylen are excellent and everything in the video is well explained and an eye opener really recommended you are not going to regret it.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I'm glad I found this thread. Im have the same problem as the OP. I would love to have some hard copies of the SH training courses. I would definitely buy a set if they ever put them out.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Understand the limited access to hs internet to watch the online training. Maybe a place such as kinkos or office depot or a public library that offers internet / computer access for a fee or free at the library would be a good place to try. Just trying to help a brother out. Hope it works out friend. Best of luck.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I don't think trying to take an online series of courses on sniping techniques at a public facility is a good idea. There are plenty of anti-gun people who would quickly draw the wrong conclusions.

If the content was available via DVD, I think I'd buy it right away based on the great reviews it has gotten here.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Sniper courses? Your post asked about precesion rifle tecqunequs etc. Not sure where your going to find a dvd or online training on being a sniper. But if your concerned about people drawing the wrong concluions about a sport that many enjoy, you proabable should not do that in public, just to be safe. Good luck with the training.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tenaja</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sniper courses? Your post asked about precesion rifle tecqunequs etc. Not sure where your going to find a dvd or online training on being a sniper. But if your concerned about people drawing the wrong concluions about a sport that many enjoy, you proabable should not do that in public, just to be safe. Good luck with the training. </div></div>

I was trying to make a point, Tenaja, by referring to it as "sniping". Some people do not view what we do as a "sport". They view it as "sniping", with the most negative connotaitons that can be attached to it. They want it made illegal.

Jim G
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Ok copy. No worries. Good luck, brother.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Precision Rifle. Amazing i've been watching that and relearning what i already knew and learning things i never would have even thought of. Todd Hodnett is a genius.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FORECON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Magpul Dynamics: Art of the Precision Rifle. Amazing i've been watching that and relearning what i already knew and learning things i never would have even thought of. Todd Hodnett is a genius. </div></div>

Agreed! Seems some people here have a bad taste in there mouth about him, but from what i seen i would want no other instructor when i go for training. He uses the software and tools he has as his disposal to fit what the real world shows him, not try and true the real world to his tools. No matter what you prepare for or how good you feel your equipment is you need to know how to work around problems. He does.... the ways he explains how to throw on any scope, true the software to the bullet hit and get back on target is awesome. His understanding of the subject is the best i have ever seen.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GotCox</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Agreed! Seems some people here have a bad taste in there mouth about him, but from what i seen i would want no other instructor when i go for training. </div></div>

Never limit yourself to one instructor. I used to feel the same way - the guy who trained us was a multiple world and national pistol champion. I didn't want to hear from anyone else. But ended up taking a class from another very capable shooter and still learned some stuff.

Take a class from Todd. Take a class with Caylen (Magpul), Jacob (Rifles Only), or others. Take the techniques they teach you and put them in your tool bag for what works for you.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

The problem with video is that it's expensive to produce images which actually help the shooter understand concepts important to good shooting. And, since there is a limited market for shooting videos, great graphics are unfortunately not possible. Instead, for example, we see the process of aligning the sights not from the shooter's perspective, but rather from the perspective of someone watching a celebrity shooter just telling us how to align the sights while the celebrity shooter points the rifle at something down range. David Tubb videos come to mind. No offence to David Tubb, one of the best marksmen ever; but, his videos are not much more than "hey y'all, watch this".

Picture books and Power Point slide shows are an answer; and, there are a few of these out there today that are really good, that's to say, knowledge is glean-able from such material.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Sterling brings up some good points, but wait, spring is coming and things are moving forward in a way that has not been properly demonstrated. But that may very well change. From a book standpoint and video series one too.

The online training videos prove you can get into fine details and are allowing me to buy better equipment like the video prism that actually connects and allows me to see through a scope while video taping through the optic.

Having access to a professional teams of video / graphics people is also a plus, they are finishing up a project now and will be here once the weather changes.
 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

Frank ,so your going to do a book and DVD -seriously when would you invision them being for sale as ill be first to order !
I hope when you do wind and the factor involving it are covered extensively ie - mirage ,not to much flat range stuff but valleys , trees and mountains and things that effect wind flow .


 
Re: Is there a good precision rifle training DVD?

I'm second in line behind ch'e... I would be all over a book and DVD set from Lowlight/Sniper's Hide. I did learn some stuff from the Magpul series but also had some of the gripes as others have mentioned. Either way, I'm learning as much as I can.
 
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