Re: Is this scope damaged?
For the record, I just went back through the text messages Hunter sent me. NOT ONCE did he describe the ring marks. He only admitted he knew about them AFTER I PM'ed him about the damage. All of our phone correspondence was through text messages except for a single, brief conversation when I told him my shipping address, because he forgot to write it down before going to the UPS store.
Since he's here now, let's see what everyone makes of our correspondence:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey,
If the price remains $1800 including rings and the other factory included parts, I will take it. Let me know what payment methods you accept and where to send payment.
Thanks,
Jason</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds good I'll mark it. I'll accept Paypal but you'll hafta cover the %4. OR, you can do a direct wire-transfer or you can send a USPS MO. Just whatever you want to do and how quickly you want it. just lemme know.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">USPS won't do MOs over 1k in value (not that I couldn't just send you two of them).
I am happy to do a wire transfer; I will require your name, address, phone #, your bank name, your bank's ABA Routing Transfer #, and your account #. I will cover my bank's wire fee, but ask that you be responsible for any fee your bank may charge to accept a wire transfer.
The address for shipping the scope is:
Jason xxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks,
Jason</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My addy is
Hunter xxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxx
my cell is 432-xxx-xxxx</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good deal. LMK the other numbers when you get a chance and I will wire you the funds (my bank is not open on Saturdays so it will be processed on Monday).</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">sounds great. I was factoring std ground shipping in the sale price. is that what you want or do you want to buy expedited shipping so you get it quicker?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ground is fine as long as you were planning on insuring the package, haven't even received the Near base yet (it's going on a TRG).</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok will do. go ahead and send me your contact info and Monday we can get this ball rolling.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My cell is 919-xxx-xxxx. It is better to text me, because I work in a place where I can't always answer calls.
Send me your bank #s any time and I will go ahead and file the transfer so it is processed first thing on Monday.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll get that routing number ASAP</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BTW, why are you selling it? The review you wrote makes it sound greater than sliced bread.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was gonna paint the Razor but decided I didnt want to paint a $2k optic with Krylon lol. I also just love to switch optics around andI spent too much money on a new tikka I just bought so Im also trying to recoup some funds</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Routing number xxxxxxxxx
Acct xxxxx
Just have it deposited in checking please and let me know when you do and ill send the scope.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just sent the $1800 wire transfer to account xxxxx at xxxxxxxxxx Credit Union, Odessa TX.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cool man, ill get the scope out in tha morn. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks, lmk the tracking # when you have it.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">will do, shouldnt be a problem to get it out on the AM.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey, sorry I missed your text today, my phone switched off in my pocket for some reason (still had full battery). My bank also called to get my verbal approval for the wire and I missed that call too - I will call them first thing in the morning and have them send it.
Sorry for the delay,
JB</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No worries brother. Im not in a bind. Call me if you need anything else.
Thanks again
Hunter</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They are sending it now.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok cool. I just called the bank because I couldnt log into my online account. I called and they said it hasnt come through as of yet. I'll keep checking back and as soon as it shows up, the scope will go out. It's boxed up and rtg just waiting on the electronic stuff to go through.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got your message this PM, thanks for the tracking #. Will let you know when it arrives.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">cool man, enjoy it.</div></div>
Here there's a couple day gap while the scope was in transit. It arrived on Friday, 4/23. I came home from work early because my fiancee told me the package had arrived. I got home around 2pm. At 2:20pm I sent this:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hunter,
This scope was advertised as in mint condition. There is no way any sane person would look at this scope and go "Yep, that's how it came out of the box." There are multiple ring marks, a scratch through the finish near the power ring, and at least 3 deep gouges into the metal on the scope body. The ARD is nowhere to be found in the package, despite your statement that "all original equipment comes with the scope." You also did not disclose that the rings were painted, including sensitive places like on the inside of the rings, and the threads on the locking screws.
I cannot believe that you were unaware of the gouges on the scope, which makes me conclude that you intentionally misrepresented the scope's condition.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, I looked over the scope and yeah there are light rings marks but I didn't know that till I took it out of the rings to ship it to you. I don't remember at all any gouges or scratches through the finish near the power ring. I did not find that the painting of the rings made a difference so I didnt mention it. I would not intentionally misrepresent the scope's condition and I sincerely apologize for the mix up.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And the missing ARD?
I am uploading pics of the scope now so you can see the gouges.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll see if I can find the ARD. I completely forgot about the ARD</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The pic doesn't show it well, but the scratch near the power ring is bright metal. Note also the dent above "Vortex."
These two linear gouges displace a significant amount of metal. The scuff to their right is also into the finish.
Another spot of bright metal on the elevation knob:
Finish wear on the windage from use:
When you advertise a scope as mint, it needs to be mint, not "mint as long as you don't look very close."</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As far as the turrets go, you have two brand new turret covers. and the other marks, I dont remember ANY of those other gouges/scratches other than the ring marks. So, I don't know what you want me to do, the scope looks like shit compared to when I sent it out. I think it was damaged in transit.
</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It looks like the rings were smashed into the scope body....</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, first of all, I would like you to send me the ARD, and the bubble level, which I just realized is also missing. If you cannot find them, a partial refund will be in order so that I can acquire new ones from Vortex. I will think about the scope's overall condition and whether anything else is needed to make this right.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will look for the ARD and the level and send them if I can find them but there's not much I can do beyond that because as I said, the scope wasn't in that condition when it left.</div></div>
It was 3:05pm when he sent the above message, meaning it took him exactly 45 minutes to tell me I was basically SOL.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you insure the package?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is the package screwed up?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not visibly, but when you insure "the package" you are insuring its contents. Did you purchase any insurance on the shipment when you dropped it at UPS? If so, they are liable for damage to the contents of the box incurred during shipping, up to the amount the shipper selected.
If your point is that UPS is not liable if they didn't damage the exterior of the box, then the liability would lie with the shipper (ie, you) for not securing the contents of the box in a manner that would prevent damage. So it's sort of bogus to say "not my problem, it didn't look like that when I sent it." If I send you a pristine scope but fill the package with thumbtacks, it will certainly be my fault that it arrives scratched to hell.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shipped it using a ups software program. Just saw your post, if the FOV has a problem, then the scope most definitely was damaged in shipping because it was functionally flawless when it left. but did have light rings marks it is a used scope.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You still haven't answered my question. Even the UPS shipper program should allow you to declare a value on the item and pay extra to insure the contents against damage or loss.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe it was covered yes.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What value did you tell them?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">$1800 I believe</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Basically everyone agrees with me in that thread that these gouges could not have happened in shipping without causing a lot of damage to the box, which there wasn't any.
Have you found the ARD or level?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">havent had a chance to look.</div></div>
The above was sent on Saturday, 4/24. He still had not looked for the missing stuff.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok here's the deal, I just talked to Vortex and you can send the scope in to get fixed free of charge. I can't buy the scope back or offer you a refund because the scope was in EXCELLENT condition other than the ring marks when it left here. Let me know what you want to do.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I know Vortex will fix it, that's part of the warranty. To be blunt, I think you're FOS when it comes to the gouges - there's no way UPS could have delivered enough of a blow to cause them without damaging the box, and the box was pristine. About 15 people have looked at the pics now and NO ONE believes that they were caused by shipping, or that they even could have been.
Have you found the ARD or the bubble level yet? Have you even looked for them?</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well buddy I don't know what to tell you I guess you are SOL. I've done everything I can do for you I've done everything I can do to help you get it fixed. How can I be certain you didn't fuck it up and you are trying to put it off on me? Found the level, still searching for the ARD ill send them asap. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Conqueror</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"I've done everything I can do to help you get it fixed"
Which is what, exactly? Tell me that Vortex will fix it? That was hard.
If this situation was reversed, I would do everything possible to make the buyer happy. I once sent a pistol to a buyer that got scratched in transit. I offered to pay for the shipping to springfield armory and split the cost of refinishing with the guy. All you have done is say "It's your problem, send it to Vortex if you want." What kind of seller isn't even sure if he insured the package, or how much value he put on it?
You haven't done anything CLOSE to "everything you can do" to make this right. Basically, you've done nothing except tell me to have Vortex fix it. It even took you a couple days to look for the ARD and level - if it were me in your shoes, I would have started hunting the minute the buyer told me they were missing. I gave you close to $2,000, and you have the nerve to question why I'm pissed? Even the ring marks make the scope not "mint" and you admit that you knew about them before you sent it. If this is your idea of "everything you can do" then you aren't a very imaginative person.</div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, I'm sorry I can't give you the answer you want. Second, no it did not take me a couple of days to start looking for the extra parts but a couple days to locate them. I have the nerve to question whether or not you in fact screwed the scope up and are trying to put it off on me. I told you over the phone that there were faint ring marks and you replied "ok" so I changed my ad to reflect that it was in excellent condition not mint. As far as the image issue, I don't know what could that have caused that other than the position of the erector system. </div></div>
Again, the ring marks were NOT mentioned over the phone. But frankly, I don't even care about the ring marks. The gouges were what pissed me off.