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Rifle Scopes It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

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Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 23, 2007
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I've been wrapped up in getting a LRF for target shooting and totally ignored the option of using GPS. Of course this wouldn't work for hunting but for finding exact yardage while shooting steel it'll work great.

Kind of a "light bulb" moment for me, thought I'd share.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

pacing doesnt work so well with hills. Thats a good Idea, use a gps.
wink.gif
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

I'm not so sure HOW you are using a GPS, but I'd like to know. My GPS is a cheap Tom Tom brand and gives me the latitude/longitude coordinates but not distances off-road...
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

I've used the gps in my iphone and ballistic FTE software to get me "on paper" at 950yds.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

It would get you in the ballpark. Best accuracy I've ever gotten with my Garmin 60CSx is +- 13 feet. That means both your points could be as much as 26 feet further apart or closer together. Seems my typical accuracy is 18 feet so the error could be as much as 36 feet or 12 yards. That's not bad and fine for longer ranges but don't try to zero your rifle with it.

I've used Google Earth to scout out places to shoot and have found that its ruler is pretty accurate. I measured one spot at 293 yards and when I set up my targets (which probably weren't exactly in the same place anyway) I ranged it with LRF at 296 yards.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

Yeah the whole pacing kind of throws things off for me because elevation changes(valley). I am using a hand held Garmin unit and it has a setting that you mark the navpoint and then it tracks your distance/elevation traveled. I would just mark another navepoint where the target sits and I would have my exact range within a few ft.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: azimutha</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It would get you in the ballpark. Best accuracy I've ever gotten with my Garmin 60CSx is +- 13 feet. That means both your points could be as much as 26 feet further apart or closer together. Seems my typical accuracy is 18 feet so the error could be as much as 36 feet or 12 yards. That's not bad and fine for longer ranges but don't try to zero your rifle with it.

I've used Google Earth to scout out places to shoot and have found that its ruler is pretty accurate. I measured one spot at 293 yards and when I set up my targets (which probably weren't exactly in the same place anyway) I ranged it with LRF at 296 yards. </div></div>

Google earthing now, thanks for the info. I don't have the funds for a LRF at the moment so am trying to supplement my rangefinding capabilities so i can shoot some steel further out.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: glock24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a few websites that will calculate distance from two latitude and longitude coordinates.

I actually tried this a few months ago. Zeiss LRF versus Tom Tom. The Zeiss measured 1054 meters, the Tom Tom said 1080 meters.

http://www.chemical-ecology.net/java/lat-long.htm

</div></div>

Oh ok, I don't have internet when I'm shooting or I'd probably use Google Earth and measure.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

That's a good idea. What is the current accuracy of civilian GPS at this time? I just got one of the new Android cell phones; it has GPS and I can download an inclinometer app. I don't know yet if I can get my NightForce/Pejsa ballistics progrom to operate on it yet.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

Been using my Magellan Platinum for years for this vary thing. Friend just bought a 60CSx and it gives distance down to the foot as you walk, using a point to point on the map, and waypoint to waypoint. You can just waypoint several spots you hunt in an area and then from your shooting location use a close waypoint and then estimate range from waypoint to target.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

My primary field ballistic program, Field Firing Solutions , will accept firing position and target position data from a GPS, as well as from coupled laser rangefinders which output range and bearing data.

I've used a Delorme PN20 to map the targets and FPs on the range at Rifles Only. The distances calculated by the program agree to within 1 or 2 yards with the distances from a PLRF-10.

Of course for use by a sniper in the field, he'd either need one of the rangefinders which puts out bearing and range data for longer shots, or he'd need to use a GPS to map selected points in the AO.

The program will also accept map coordinates, which would probably suffice with some care for shorter shots.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1ZNUF</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That's a good idea. What is the current accuracy of civilian GPS at this time? I just got one of the new Android cell phones; it has GPS and I can download an inclinometer app. I don't know yet if I can get my NightForce/Pejsa ballistics progrom to operate on it yet.</div></div>

Current GPS accuracy if coorected by WAAS is with in 6" if moving and 3' static.

I have been trying to figure out how to use GPS to range. New smartphones can have google earth running and use it on the fly but my luck it would be too slow or I would loose signal where I am at.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aggie Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Current GPS accuracy if coorected by WAAS is with in 6" if moving and 3' static.
</div></div>

Are you sure about that? I've never heard of any civilian unit that can come close to 6", and generally they claim better than they can do...

My 60CSx reports +/- 15-20 ft or so on average, advertised as +/- 10' IIRC...

-Slice
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

I have never gotten quite the accuracy out of the 60CSx that WAAS-enabling it is supposed to obtain. One thing I've been told by an expert in using GPS for surveying is that they will actually measure a location during 3 different 8-hour time periods of the day to establish a benchmark. That works well with professional equipment.

As for cell-phone GPS, just be aware that it uses cell towers (and in some cases) wi-fi hotspots to plot locations. So it is not quite as accurate as satellite-based GPS and only works if you can triangulate off cell towers. With Android (unlike Apple) there may be ways to attach a satellite-based GPS antenna to your phone.

Re: Google Earth...well, it's good for scouting out places to shoot and seeing if there's enough room. I never implied that it could work in any way out in the field (unless you have some means of Internet access).
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

We actually use GPS all the time at our local matches . The RO gives you the GPS coordinates and you use your <span style="font-weight: bold">From-To</span> feature on the GPS to get your distance . I haven't done it in a while but given enough time I am sure I could figure it out again .
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

If you know your particular hunting/shooting place you could use known landmarks/targets as navpoints and then know how far they are away. This would save hundreds of dollars spent on a laser rangefinder. Plus you could use it reliably at longer ranges than a LRF could laze.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

I load custom topos into mine so I can also use that to pick out features in the terrain that aren't always visible - like meadows. Occasionally I'll use the GOTO button to see how far it is but just do that for walking distances and to establish a heading. A GPS is very useful but I still consider it a crude tool for shooting ranging. I regularly can range out to 1500 yards (and as much as 1978 once) with the Swaro rangefinder and I'm sure some of the Zeiss and Leica models can come close to that for a $200-300 less. Beyond that, what do I need to range, esp. with a .308?
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

If you shoot in the same places regularly and mark the target and shooting position way-points, an entry in the your logbook makes it a one-time calculation.

Also if you have ability to run excel it is pretty easy to set-up a spread sheet using the Haversine Method for calculating the distance between two given Lat and Lon points. I have only verified the accuracy of this calculation method to 3/4mile; but should be accurate to within the tolerance of a standard gps out to several miles. When checking with a laser range finder you need to correct for slope as the coordinates and calculation will give horizontal distance.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

Most handheld and small GPS units are in the 10 yd. accuracy range. There are units for precision farming that start out around $1500.00 that give 10". For around $8000.00 and a subscription to a service (differential) you can get down to 1".
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the point of that?

</div></div>

They give you the GPS coordinates of the targets thus using the from-to feature you can figure out how many yards , meters , feet or whatever to the target . Its just another method of rangefinding . They also use Mil-Dot rangefinding and allow the use of LRF's on some stages as well . They started running matches before LRF's became widely available but had been using GPS to get competitors to shooting locations and just went the next step to give target coordinates as well .
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

For those of us on a budget try using a measuring wheel like highway workers and surveyor's. I've been using one for a couple months and it works great plus it's cheap (about $40 at Lowe's). But once again you still have to factor in terrain features like hills.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

WARNING! More than you ever wanted to know about GPS accuracy....

"Normal" (civilian) satellite navigation receivers compare pseudorandom signals from a minimum of 3 satellites with an internally generated copy of the same signals. Since the signals from the satellites takes time to reach the receiver, the signals do not "line up" properly. (The satellite's copy is delayed in relation to the local copy.) By progressively delaying the local copy more and more, the signals will eventually line up properly. That delay is the time needed for the signals to reach the receiver, and from this the distance from the satellites can be calculated.

The accuracy of the resulting range measurement is generally a function of the ability of the receiver's electronics to accurately compare the signals. In general, receivers are able to align the signals to about 1% of one bit-width. For instance, the coarse-acquisition (C/A) code sent on the GPS system sends a bit every 0.98 microsecond, so a receiver is accurate to 0.01 microsecond, or about 3 meters in terms of distance. The military-only signal sent by the same satellites is clocked ten times as fast, so with similar techniques the receiver will be accurate to about 30 cm. Other effects introduce errors much greater than this, and accuracy based on an uncorrected C/A signal is generally about 15 m.

WAAS-enabled units use a network of ground-based reference stations, in North America and Hawaii, to measure small variations in the GPS satellites' signals in the western hemisphere. Measurements from the reference stations are routed to master stations, which queue the received Deviation Correction (DC) and send the correction messages to geostationary WAAS satellites in a timely manner (about every 5 seconds or better). Those satellites broadcast the correction messages back to Earth, where WAAS-enabled GPS receivers use the corrections while computing their positions to improve accuracy.

The WAAS specification requires it to provide a position accuracy of 7.6 meters or better (for both lateral and vertical measurements), at least 95% of the time. Actual performance measurements of the system at specific locations have shown it typically provides better than 1.0 meter laterally and 1.5 meters vertically throughout most of the contiguous United States and large parts of Canada and Alaska.

Bill
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

Some receivers have the ability to average a number of readings when the receiver is stationary, enhancing position accuracy. One can use that ability to get very precise locations.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

most hand helds are accurate to with in 5-10 yds. the gps's i use on the boat for work are Dgps units which are accurate to 30 inches. now that is some good stuff.
 
Re: It just hit me, duh (GPS for target shooting)

I do sell some Trimble units that are good to under 1" repeatable year to year. Very expensive though and require a ground based reference within a couple miles. The WAAS enabled receivers I sell are accurate to around 6" but I do set them to use a minimum of 6 sats.

One cool thing coming is VRS or CORS. This is a reference network funded by the DOT that is mostly for construction. It is a permanently set up network for surveying so they do not have to set up base and survey before they get to work. This usuall takes 24 hrs so it is time consuming if you just need 5 minutes of work.

Since this is gov't funded by us the taxpayers it is open to the public where they put them mostly. You just need to log into the network via the internet. Most smartphones can do it and then you use that as your differential correction. Accurate to within about an inch. This is survey grade precision.

This is very cool and works well where it is at. We just dont have it here in Texas yet. At least not the free setup.

I dont claim to know it all by a long shot but my day job is selling precision farming equipment on tractors and this stuff is way cool. I have learned alot about GPS in the past year.