Night Vision ITAR restrictions ?

[Sudinim]

What exactly is the restriction for buying Night Vision equipment.

My understanding is non U.S. citizens cant access GEN III period, Im fine with that.

But, Im in the U.S. on holiday next year, could I buy GEN II+ ( Hypergen ) legally and return home with it, with the sales document clearly stating its GEN II+ and inform airport authorities Ive got the equipment before travelling ?

Anybody done this or any advise. Dont want to be stopped at the airport and have the unit taken away from me, or worse still, break any laws ?

 

[cj7hawk]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?


Hmmm I hope someone else will chime in here with some additional information, because I'm not an expert on ITAR and I'm not from the US. Also, the laws here are slightly different from the US laws but Australia is provided special consideration under ITAR however to answer some of your questions...

1, The US Does sell Gen3 outside of the US. ITAR makes allowance for this. Appropriate licensing is required. It's usually only for Mil/Pol/Gov...

2, Theoretically it should be possible to buy anything and fly out with it if you have the correct documents, but from personal experience with the laws in Australia ( which are based on the laws in the US ) it's not practical and if you just show up at the airport with sales documentation you'll probably be arrested for violating ITAR.

Unless you're a licensed exporter and know the laws very well, don't even think of going down this path. I only just became a military exporter a few weeks ago and there were many unexpected turns in that process - there's no way I'd do that for travelling with tubes from Australia to anywhere unless I knew everything well in advanced, including buying the tubes long before the rest of the documentation was complete. To export just one Gen2 (not even Gen2+ ) tube under ITAR compliant Australian legislation, I had to have a defence export permit, a customs clearance and for travel I'd have to have a whole lot of other documentation too... Thank goodness it was just being posted.

It's definitely not something I would consider just to save a few dollars unless I was heading that way in the long run. Photonis is available in Europe. I'd stay with that.

Regards

David

p.s. Hypergen is not Gen2+ - They are about 3 levels of technological progress apart. Hypergen is technically SSG ( Super Second Generation ) though.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

Ive contacted the Department of State for the official answer, will post reply once I receive it.

Im going on holiday there anyway so if Im allowed to, could be the easiest and cheapest way to buy decent gear.

Keep you posted.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

No problems buying and taking units home with me so it seems. So long as its no higher than GEN II+, I can take it out of the U.S. with just the sales documentation, confirmimg sales and its GEN II+ status.

Clarified by the DDTC responce team.

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sudinim</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No problems buying and taking units home with me so it seems. So long as its no higher than GEN II+, I can take it out of the U.S. with just the sales documentation, confirmimg sales and its GEN II+ status.

Clarified by the DDTC responce team.</div></div>

Why would you want to buy a Gen 2+ from the US? seems a long way to go to buy something that is for sale in europe. Not to mention Gen 2+ Sucks Ass.

You need Gen 2 High performance from Europe Photonis. Btw you cant leave America with that either! You need to buy it from Canada for the best price who can export.

Im not sure exactly what your trying to achieve but your not the first believe me.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

I know what your saying, easy if you want to buy rear mounted NV, but front mounted.....not a chance, hence looking Stateside, unless you can offer me some other choice ?

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

You cant buy front mounted Gen2+ the resolution sux its 32lp/mm

Why dont you look at the Hendsoldt front mounted NV unit with the XR5 from Zeiss. its about $12,000 but thats what your going to pay for decent front mounted stuff.

Why so set on getting a front mounted unit? Dedal make one that screws in a scope but not sure how good it is.

Really to be honest if you cant afford a front mounted unit your pissing in the wind trying.

Why not just get a dedicated NV scope?

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

Zeiss is strictly Military Law only in Europe, same as Simrad

Cost, Im aware off, NSV 80, which is available in U.S. at $12K uses xx1865 tube. NSV 600 - XR4 tube and NSV 1000 XR5.

I want front mount, as Im certain its easier for my situation, jus mount on n off, easily.

Dedicated NV scope......got a great day scope, dont really wanna keep taking it on n off, hence front mounted NV unit.

Any ideas ?

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

Well you cant export those tubes from the US even if you wanted to, including the European made ones. You need to find a EU supplier of the Zeiss if you want one.

Sadly you want the wrong type of weapon sight and you live in the wrong part of the world.

for $12,000 you could buy a new gun and a new dedicated NV scope to go on top.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

the xx 1865 can be brought out of the U.S. checked today with the relevent authoritys.....Zeiss is a no go for civilians, directly. Couple of leads waiting to hear for outlets ?

Wrong part of the World....these U.S. chaps have all the best toys !

$12000 could buy a new rifle and dedicated scope....now theres a thought !!!!

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

You cant export any of those tubes believe me. they are all over 350 sensitivity and all have MCP higher than allowed. You cant always trust what departments in the USA say since there are 2 and often they have no idea what can be exported that is controlled by the other department. Not to mention that exporting ANY kind of weapon sight from the USA is controlled by ITAR. so your shit out of luck on that front.

 

[Sudinim]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

I checked with the DDTC Responce team, who confirmed I could BUT, I agree, when I asked what documentation I could carry, so if stopped I would be covered, they passed me off to another department, then another department.......al had conflicting answers....so much greif !

Your last thought has made me ask myself why I didnt just buy another rig with a dedicated night scope......cant beleive I hadnt thought like that, all the aggro of trying to sort out a front mounted unit, when, with there costs, I could easily buy a new rig and the dedicated NV unit and still have cash left over !

I dont need any excuse to buy a new rifle so thats what Im gonna do. Thanks for planting the seed !

 

[Pandamonia]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

Yeh some times you can caught up in it all.

Best thing to do is get a new rifle and put a D760 on top of it with either an XR5 or Gen 3 tube, Living in France is going to make this purchase expensive. if you live in the UK you can generally get some better deals if you know what i mean

in all honesty though mate get a XX1441 tube from Canada in a D480. you dont need Gen 3 believe me i got Gen 3 and i always use a laser for hunting.

 

[Victor-TNVC]

Re: ITAR restrictions ?

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