• Watch Out for Scammers!

    We've now added a color code for all accounts. Orange accounts are new members, Blue are full members, and Green are Supporters. If you get a message about a sale from an orange account, make sure you pay attention before sending any money!

Jail for math

seems to me .gov doesn't like being told they might be wrong, and are going to court to stop it.
why take him to court over licensing if you can just explain how he is mistaken?
or is he?
 
  • Like
Reactions: TurboTrout
modified on site, huh? it happens, definitely. but in a court of law this happens "Your honor, how can the prosecution claim the engineering design was negligently deficient when the contractor did not build what was designed? The contractor deviated from the design without the responsible engineers approval and that was the cause of the failure." case dismissed.
I don't doubt that is the case. But problems also need to be solved, and that is non-trivial part of building things, though it varies from project to project. My example of a train was a bad one because of the enormous liability, but if you look at something like roof trusses, that shit needs to be planed back, notched, etc from time to time.
 
Most jurors are mouth breathers

And it’s the fault of whom ever has the most money to go after.
Mouth breather or PhD, one chair one vote.
And you are absolutely correct the courts system is 99% "show me the money".
But if this guy did not present himself as an official engineer and it was all just an educated opinion, then why try to shut him up and/or destroy him?
Favorite tactic of the left, he has dared to question the expertise of the .gov engineers, he has assailed the ivory tower and must be made example of. If he's such a hick, doesn't know shit about rain water management then his "opinions" won't even be relevant in court. Just for good measure we'll put him through the court money-wringer and teach him a lesson.
 
After working on cars trucks tractors and heavy equipment for a long time, I will tell you engineers are the dumbest mother fuckers in the world.

i dont think id argue. There are some dumb bastards that wield that like a shield.
 
Mouth breather or PhD, one chair one vote.
And you are absolutely correct the courts system is 99% "show me the money".
But if this guy did not present himself as an official engineer and it was all just an educated opinion, then why try to shut him up and/or destroy him?
Favorite tactic of the left, he has dared to question the expertise of the .gov engineers, he has assailed the ivory tower and must be made example of. If he's such a hick, doesn't know shit about rain water management then his "opinions" won't even be relevant in court. Just for good measure we'll put him through the court money-wringer and teach him a lesson.

its pretty doubtful any "government engineer" did any design. The MO of most municipalities is they outsource the design to a consultant. Yes, the county owns the improvements but its probably going to be on their engineer they paid to defend his design.

you guys are all "teh governments are repressing the little man because they are the government" and im not really seeing that here.

FYI, most state engineering licensing boards are made up of.... wait for it..... licensed engineers that both practice in the public and private sector.
 
its pretty doubtful any "government engineer" did any design. The MO of most municipalities is they outsource the design to a consultant. Yes, the county owns the improvements but its probably going to be on their engineer they paid to defend his design.

you guys are all "teh governments are repressing the little man because they are the government" and im not really seeing that here.

FYI, most state engineering licensing boards are made up of.... wait for it..... licensed engineers that both practice in the public and private sector.
I get the gist of where your coming from but it wasn't a consulting engineering firm that initiated legal actions against him.
 
This is about legal liability. This is why the license is important. Full stop. He may be right, but "right" don't mean shit in court. I'm really surprised that the people here haven't figured that out yet...
 
  • Like
Reactions: TxWelder35
Alright, watched the video

1st- that guy can say/make whatever calculations he wants, and testify/etc however he wants
2nd- his opinion is just that
3rd- No governing agency/court is going to take the word of Joe bob the welder who’s been doing it 35 years with zero certifications/formal education on structural design over the word of structural engineer with a degree and certifications. He has the credentials to say he’s right, and it will take the testimony of another person with the same/better professional/formal credentials to counter his statements.
4th- as a Welder who had been around if I see a beam fail, I can look at it and tell you it failed and probably tell you why it failed. My opinion though doesn’t mean jack shit. Call a structural engineer to say why it failed.
5th- certifications are just CYA
6th-Y’all in here saying we don’t need engineers are crazy.
 
This is about legal liability. This is why the license is important. Full stop. He may be right, but "right" don't mean shit in court. I'm really surprised that the people here haven't figured that out yet...
lots of missing details, but the video seems to infer that he found some "mistakes" and was just trying to have somebody look.
he isn't designing anything without a license or relevant degree as far as i can tell.
i don't think i license is required to see a mistake in a blueprint and say, "hey, you might have missed a decimal here."
and i don't think you need to take somebody to court, unless he is a nuisance, which certainly is a possibility.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vh20
seems to me .gov doesn't like being told they might be wrong, and are going to court to stop it.
why take him to court over licensing if you can just explain how he is mistaken?
or is he?
If someone is practicing medicine without a license, should he not be taken to court?
 
After working on cars trucks tractors and heavy equipment for a long time, I will tell you engineers are the dumbest mother fuckers in the world.
In all fairness to automotive engineers....each of the major systems are designed by different engineering teams.....and they don't all necessarily talk to each other as much as you'd think.


Imagine you and 10 friends trying to cook a meal, and you all aren't fully aware of what each other is making....you'll end up with a meal, but it'll be a little fucking weird.
 
If someone is practicing medicine without a license, should he not be taken to court?
Thankfully, we can all practice whatever profession we like, right here on the hide, with no legal repercussions...
 
  • Haha
Reactions: RGStory
everyone thinks they are an expert until they have to answer "Why did you do that?" with "Well, your Honor,........."
So you either have to be an engineer or a pussy hurt attorney, either way you're still an asshole.
Worked with the best of them,cry me a river I have seen MANY fuck up's from civil, mechanical or structural engineers.


And attorneys because they belong down here at the bottom
 
Last edited:
he has first amendment rights. This is not a first amendment rights issue, as much as the IJ and this guy want it to be, and as much as the thread title misconstrued what is happening. This guy basically got a cease and desist letter from the state licensing board or else he would be charged with a crime. Most all states do this and it has to do with how they got started with licensing and the reasons why. Usually, it has to do with some really bad negligence that led to a high number of loss of life or property value loss.

Google the New London School Explosion to see what made Texas push to regulate engineering practices.

This is an old guy who probably doesnt give a shit if he gets sued or not. He can go on twatter and facebook all day and exercise his first amendment rights. But he's acting in a capacity as a consultant engineer, regardless if he's paid or not.


as an example, if a person were to email an engineer about what slab design and thickness he should use for this house. If that engineer gives his opinion, even if he was not paid, he basically is liable to that person who built that slab and then the house shifted, etc. In the legal sense, there is a big difference between an engineering opinion and one of the layperson.

Please show me where he's "acting" as a consultant? Where are you coming up with these deductions? How in God's green apple can you deduce all this from a video which he never talked about his calculations, and equitably explained he was not a licensed engineer in this field?

Remind me to never have you sitting on the same jury as myself.
 
Please show me where he's "acting" as a consultant? Where are you coming up with these deductions? How in God's green apple can you deduce all this from a video which he never talked about his calculations, and equitably explained he was not a licensed engineer in this field?

Remind me to never have you sitting on the same jury as myself.

Why does it offend you so much when someone has their facts together more than their big gov papers?
 
If someone is practicing medicine without a license, should he not be taken to court?
sure, but dude wasn't designing, building or treating anyone or anything.
he reviewed some material and noted something that looked like an error. at least that is what is being presented.

example: hey, you are using cubic yards here, but cubic feet there, and the math may not be taking this into consideration."
 
Why does it offend you so much when someone has their facts together more than their big gov papers?
Because, when shit goes down, the "guy with the facts" will be all 'Don't look at me, I'm not an expert," but the guy with the 'big gov't papers' is -legally- holding the bag...
 
...at least that is what is being presented....
Exactly

Like I said in my first post, without knowing what he wrote, how he represented himself, and the context and content of the letters, all we can do is speculate.


Honestly it feels like there is info being left out that we aren't being told here
 
In all fairness to automotive engineers....each of the major systems are designed by different engineering teams.....and they don't all necessarily talk to each other as much as you'd think.


Imagine you and 10 friends trying to cook a meal, and you all aren't fully aware of what each other is making....you'll end up with a meal, but it'll be a little fucking weird.
My thinking is all 10 friends should have to work on their stuff before it hits production.
 
If someone is practicing medicine without a license, should he not be taken to court?
There was a doctor in Houston years back that found the cure to cancer, he was curing uncurable patients. But he wanted to help people and give it away and the fda wanted the recipe so they could patent it. Instead of saying he was a charlatan the ran him into the ground with legal stuff until he couldnt operate anymore. It doesnt benefit the doctors to cure cancer, its more profitable to treat it with chemo that may cause other cancers to treat.
 
Please show me where he's "acting" as a consultant? Where are you coming up with these deductions? How in God's green apple can you deduce all this from a video which he never talked about his calculations, and equitably explained he was not a licensed engineer in this field?

Remind me to never have you sitting on the same jury as myself.
Whatever he's doing came to the attention of the state licensing board. They sent a letter telling him they've determined he's practicing engineering without a license.

That happens.

As I've said, there's more to this than a two minute video
 
There was a doctor in Houston years back that found the cure to cancer, he was curing uncurable patients. But he wanted to help people and give it away and the fda wanted the recipe so they could patent it. Instead of saying he was a charlatan the ran him into the ground with legal stuff until he couldnt operate anymore. It doesnt benefit the doctors to cure cancer, its more profitable to treat it with chemo that may cause other cancers to treat.
proxy-image.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: gunjunkie45
Because, when shit goes down, the "guy with the facts" will be all 'Don't look at me, I'm not an expert," but the guy with the 'big gov't papers' is -legally- holding the bag...

You have a example of this happening?
 
So you either have to be an engineer or a pussy hurt attorney, either way you're still an asshole.
Worked with the best of them,cry me a river I have seen MANY fuck up's from civil, mechanical or structural engineers.


And attorneys because they belong down here at the bottom
Just because I'm an asshole doesn't mean I'm wrong
 
  • Like
Reactions: TurboTrout
The Bear Pit's aversion to education rears its ugly head.

But licensing is ridiculous.
Licensing isn't a bad thing. It shows that the individual has a general understanding of the trade or profession they choose.

It's the requirements for licensing that are ridiculous... the formal education requirements and all the other barriers set in place.

You shouldn't need to drop $350k to be an attorney. You should have to pass the bar. Whether you taught yourself or learned your shit in a classroom is largely irrelevant. You know your stuff or you don't.
 
Whatever he's doing came to the attention of the state licensing board. They sent a letter telling him they've determined he's practicing engineering without a license.

That happens.

As I've said, there's more to this than a two minute video
IF there is more to the story, fine. The idea that a guy can't do math and tell someone his results without a license is absurd. The license thing has two purposes. 1.) Its a basic competency requirement used to weed out idiots who shouldn't be designing things peoples lives depend on, like bridges. Pass the tests , pay the fee, get the license. 2.) Its to provide a mechanism of accountability if the bridge falls down and the state wonders "who was responsible for this?" Its whoever's name, license #, and stamp is on the drawing.

There is no reason on earth a non licensed individual can't do calculations and share their results. But they can't stamp a construction document. No reason at all he shouldn't be allowed to analyze a sewer failure and testify in court. His lack of license might damage his credibility, but thats for jury to decide.

I was a licensed civil engineer before I left to start a business in another field. Licensing boards and groups like ASCE are just trying to protect their little clubs.

ASCE puts out a report every year on how awful our infrastructure is. Its where all these numbers come from that say all our bridges are 30 seconds from collapse. In my experience reading those things in detail, its WAYY overblown. HMMM, group that gets paid to design new stuff says the country needs a shitload of new stuff. Certainly that couldn't go wrong LOL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BullGear
I didn't read the thread, but I know that 99% of the Bear Pit has nothing to be worried about with regards to being accused of ever doing math.
May I see your data please?
 
  • Love
Reactions: Choid
Licensing isn't a bad thing. It shows that the individual has a general understanding of the trade or profession they choose.

It's the requirements for licensing that are ridiculous... the formal education requirements and all the other barriers set in place.

You shouldn't need to drop $350k to be an attorney. You should have to pass the bar. Whether you taught yourself or learned your shit in a classroom is largely irrelevant. You know your stuff or you don't.
Licensing is usually a much worse thing than we give it credit for. You can break it down into several categories. Do we need licensed cosmetologists and the like? Almost certainly not. Lawyers probably don't need licenses, if you think about it. Some categories, say CPAs, Engineers and MDs are stronger cases, but if you take away the fact that we think of them as licensed professions, and therefore accept the necessity, the case for any of it is much less clear. I'd propose that if we can determine that more than 60% of the actual reason for licensing is that the current professionals want to keep people out of the profession so there is less competition, we ditch the licensing scheme immediately. Any less than that, and we can debate it.
 
Licensing isn't a bad thing. It shows that the individual has a general understanding of the trade or profession they choose.

It's the requirements for licensing that are ridiculous... the formal education requirements and all the other barriers set in place.

You shouldn't need to drop $350k to be an attorney. You should have to pass the bar. Whether you taught yourself or learned your shit in a classroom is largely irrelevant. You know your stuff or you don't.
I'm kinda on this bandwagon.

A lot of the license schemes are just that--schemes to prevent entry to the profession.

Now lets go back to everyone's favorite: Medicine. Should a doctor need a license to practice?
A: No
But HO LEE CRAP HOW CAN WE HAVE PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND PLAYING DOCTOR AND BANGING PIGEONS WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION.
Well if a Dr kills off all his patients he'll be outta business real quick.
We shouldn't need the government to tell us who can do what. We should be free to pursue the career we want. Now if Doctors want to get together and say "Hey here is a standard for what we think a Dr should be" that's great. Its like a peer standard. But by no means should it be required.

But but but power lines, i beams, etc etc.

Yeah and ERCOT (all incensed and all) killed 47 people with their head up their ass in Texas cause the power went out and people froze to death (not to mention the billions in damage from frozen pipes and flood damage)
ATMOS gas lines blew up several houses in Dallas. "Nope all is well, just because you smell gas, its fine. *KABOOOM* Ok maybe not"
Hows the Bridge in Minneapolis working for us? O wait it kinda fell down.

Its all a shell game to get some board money and keep the little guy outta business. It doesn't prevent the idiots from holding getting a license or ensure doing quality work. (Sorry my absolute cynacism of all things regulation is showing)

One of my jobs is a professor of data science.

Guess how many data science classes I've had in my life.

The correct answer is 0.

Most Engineers should not be trusted with a wrench (I used to be an engineer)
Most workers despise education so much, they'd add 2 and 2 to get 5.
Dammit I need a drink and my own island.

I look forward to a professional math liscense as I AM GONNA BE RICH BEEYATCH!
 
  • Love
Reactions: Choid
In 1978, a student working on an undergraduate thesis called the chief engineer on the project to ask about the stability of the building under the effect of winds impacting its corners, also known as quartering winds. The chief engineer told the student that the 1970 New York City building code only required consideration of head-on or face winds, i.e., winds that hit the flat sides of the square building.



 
  • Like
Reactions: Texasflyer
I’ve trained some engineers, very linear in their thinking, always thought if we ever had a zombie apocalypse they’d be eaten in like the first minute lol

Ok...so I said I was interested in their history on the field, if they are a engineer or a burger flipper who experiments in water sheds in his free time, show me your past history in the field, if your math, logic and history is sound, I don’t give a fuck about your “licenses”.

DQing someones opinion because they don’t have said government papers, that’s dumb as a bag of rocks
Do you know enough to judge the efficacy of their past works? Can you discern if there is a difference between what logic tells you and and what's correct?

The participation trophies, licenses, certifications at least ensure that some fundamental standards in education, experience, and practice are met (and often much more than that). And they can help protect you ...
 
he has first amendment rights. This is not a first amendment rights issue, as much as the IJ and this guy want it to be, and as much as the thread title misconstrued what is happening. This guy basically got a cease and desist letter from the state licensing board or else he would be charged with a crime. Most all states do this and it has to do with how they got started with licensing and the reasons why. Usually, it has to do with some really bad negligence that led to a high number of loss of life or property value loss.

Google the New London School Explosion to see what made Texas push to regulate engineering practices.

This is an old guy who probably doesnt give a shit if he gets sued or not. He can go on twatter and facebook all day and exercise his first amendment rights. But he's acting in a capacity as a consultant engineer, regardless if he's paid or not.


as an example, if a person were to email an engineer about what slab design and thickness he should use for this house. If that engineer gives his opinion, even if he was not paid, he basically is liable to that person who built that slab and then the house shifted, etc. In the legal sense, there is a big difference between an engineering opinion and one of the layperson.
You need to chill the fuck out Karen. I didn't see or hear anything in the video that stated he was an "expert witness" or providing anything more than an OPINION on what may have happened. He didn't show anything with a licensed engineers stamp on it. It's nothing more than a piece of paper with graphite smeared on it.

I'm in the building industry and if it's not a wet signature on a stamp, it don't mean shit. If he wants to run the numbers and try to solve a problem, so be it. Someone in the pencil factory is most likely pissed because his answer was right and theirs was wrong.
 
Just because I'm an asshole doesn't mean I'm wrong
Look up the watershed projects for southern Stark County and Northern Tusc County Ohio.

Look how many millions the Army corp of engineers spent fixing their mess.
We had to go in and under pin the entire Dover Dam.
To add insult to the taxpayers we spent a million dollars on an office building for just that project.
You can study hydraulics all you want but in the end mother nature is going to do what it wants.
So explain to me how it's supposed to work?
 
Do you know enough to judge the efficacy of their past works? Can you discern if there is a difference between what logic tells you and and what's correct?

The participation trophies, licenses, certifications at least ensure that some fundamental standards in education, experience, and practice are met (and often much more than that). And they can help protect you ...

Yes, the proof of the pudding and all that
 
Do you know enough to judge the efficacy of their past works? Can you discern if there is a difference between what logic tells you and and what's correct?

The participation trophies, licenses, certifications at least ensure that some fundamental standards in education, experience, and practice are met (and often much more than that). And they can help protect you ...
Assuming they are worth anything.

Which is questionable these days.
 
You need to chill the fuck out Karen. I didn't see or hear anything in the video that stated he was an "expert witness" or providing anything more than an OPINION on what may have happened. He didn't show anything with a licensed engineers stamp on it. It's nothing more than a piece of paper with graphite smeared on it.

I'm in the building industry and if it's not a wet signature on a stamp, it don't mean shit. If he wants to run the numbers and try to solve a problem, so be it. Someone in the pencil factory is most likely pissed because his answer was right and theirs was wrong.

Who knew about his "opinion"? Who did he share it with? How did it come to the attention of the board?

The fact he's made a video saying he's shared his calcs with someone involving some issues with a 3rd party homeowner and a city/county entity?

Looks like he's reviewing shop drawings and or engineering plans in the video? Critiquing or pointing out deficiencies in a licensed design?

Is he doing some engineering work there?
 
After working on cars trucks tractors and heavy equipment for a long time, I will tell you engineers are the dumbest mother fuckers in the world.

One thing is for sure................they ain't never had to " work on " a damn thing they designed .......if they had , they'd be going back to the drawing board
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jscb1b
Who knew about his "opinion"? Who did he share it with? How did it come to the attention of the board?

The fact he's made a video saying he's shared his calcs with someone involving some issues with a 3rd party homeowner and a city/county entity?

Looks like he's reviewing shop drawings and or engineering plans in the video? Critiquing or pointing out deficiencies in a licensed design?

Is he doing some engineering work there?
I'm not sure what kind of meds you're mainlineing but you don't even have a clue if the shit in front of him had a damn thing to do with the issue of which he was speaking?

What is "engineering work" anyway. Is common core math "engineering work"? Is balancing his checkbook "engineering work"? Maybe he was calculating the weight in metric tons, of the new Victoria's Secret model? Who the fuck knows. I don't know which unlicensed engineer beat your ass and fucked your wife, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him.
 
Look up the watershed projects for southern Stark County and Northern Tusc County Ohio.

Look how many millions the Army corp of engineers spent fixing their mess.
We had to go in and under pin the entire Dover Dam.
To add insult to the taxpayers we spent a million dollars on an office building for just that project.
You can study hydraulics all you want but in the end mother nature is going to do what it wants.
So explain to me how it's supposed to work?

Nature always wins. Design storms be damned.

People want something that never fails but no one wants to pay for something that never fails ( or give up land to build something).
 
I'm not sure what kind of meds you're mainlineing but you don't even have a clue if the shit in front of him had a damn thing to do with the issue of which he was speaking?

What is "engineering work" anyway. Is common core math "engineering work"? Is balancing his checkbook "engineering work"? Maybe he was calculating the weight in metric tons, of the new Victoria's Secret model? Who the fuck knows. I don't know which unlicensed engineer beat your ass and fucked your wife, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him.

I'll tell you what, I bet he wasn't a 77 year old retired chemical mixer who likes to hear himself talk at public meetings and cries about a letter from a state licensing board
 
i dont know what calcs he used. but there is a LEGAL difference between an engineer giving his a opinion on subject matter, and Joe Smoe giving his opinion on the same subject matter.

Who do you want designing an action (giving his opinion on) you are about to jam a 338 lapua into 3 inches from your face? An actual gunsmith, or Bubba the ditch digger who uses a dremel to piece together ARs in his garage?
If youre trying to say a licensed engineer is more competent then a non licensed engineer, I have some bad news for you!

Ill take the non licensed engineer with 20-40 years experience over the young guy that just passed his PE anyday! I cant really think of a scenario where i wouldnt take the experienced guy.

This applies to life in general.
 
The world needs engineers, and billy bob who’s been doing it for 35 years, doesnt make him right. You know it is possible to do something wrong for 35 years and just be damn lucky it never caught up to you.

I do a lot of structural fabrication/election. If you ask me what size I beam to use to support the floor above it I’m going to tell you to call an structural engineer. Yes I can probably put something up that probably won’t fail, but that is not my risk to take or what I studied to make the calculations on beam size.

I hold welding certifications. Are there welders out there that are not certified that can weld as well or better than me? Sure. But I have the paper that says I passed the test to make a structural weld. It’s CYA. no the papers didn’t come from the government.

was doing a patio cover the other day. Home owner was doing it on the DL and didn’t want to pull permits. He Wanted dual 220v heaters put in. The handyman guy he hired who “has done all of his electric work for a long time” ran 14ga wire to power both of these 6000w heaters. I told homeowner that shit was going to fry the first time they were used and he needed MUCH larger wire.

a licensed professional would not have done that.
I was with you.....right until the last sentence....ive seen a thing or two.