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Rifle Scopes Kahles... new scopes?

DP425

DP425

I’d rather be sleeping
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Feb 28, 2009
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Anyone heard any updates? Last I heard, someone verified they have at least one they've been working on. But that's been months ago (like- 6 or 7?).

I emailed them earlier this week and told them they need to shit or get off the pot (but in a more polite manor), cause people are getting tired waiting for their product line to be better rounded out. Not surprisingly, I didn't get a reply. But hell, I'm just one guy.


I love the top mount parallax and left side windage, but the K624i is not a good match for all of my precision rifles, and I crave uniformity. Kahles people, if you're monitoring this, like I said in the email; make me wait too much longer and I'm jumping ship. Three fucking scopes in your product line-up- seriously? And hell, one of those (10-50) has a very, very narrow target audience.

Hell, I could understand having two, or MAYBE even one flagship scope, if it weren't as long as a telescope, and ran a 5 or 6x erector. But yeah, 16" long and a 4x erector as your only flagship optic in a line up consisting of three scopes in total? Do you even want Kahles to stay in business?!? I'm starting to question that. I would have thought there would be SEVERAL other tactical scopes waiting in the wings when Swarovski decided to take the axe to the Kahles product line. It would sure appear that they decided to start cutting with little to no plan for what happens after.
 
Concur 100 %. Love my 624i, but come on,,,, offer something for a hunting optic. I have a Swaro Z6 and its a top shelve optic. But always a little concerned she may be a bit to delicate. My eyes are leaning away from Kahles & that entryTT has my interest.
 
While it is a long ways out, I expect SHOT show to be their announcement.. If they take the time to make sure everything is ideal and correct straight out of the gate, it could be worth it.
 
The glass in both is absolute premium quality. I like to look at the features the scopes offer. The NF has more elevation adjustment than the Kahles. Kahles has a center mounted parallax adjustment and the option for left sided windage. I would also look at reticle options and see if there is one you prefer. Hope this helps.
 
Everybody knows Nightforce doesn't have a reticle worth a shit, though MIL-C is close.
 
Swarovski has owned Kahles for many years and has now started repping the brand. Kahles scopes are essentially the Mil/Mil tactical option of Swarovski. Since Swarovski took over the brand they have stopped importing any of the Kahles hunting scopes.
 
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I love my K624i AMR scopes - they're all mounted on competition rifles, which don't get shot as much as some of my other rifles with lower priced optics. So it's always a pleasure to take one of my Bighorn rifles down to the range and get that 'ah ha' moment when I take the first look through the Kahles - it always reminds me why I was willing to spend the $$$ on the 2nd & 3rd Kahles scopes after moving up from Sightron SIII 6-24x50 sfp scopes.
 
Blasst said:
yeah I really love the 624i....just wish it had more elevation. But I'll probably grab one sometime for one of my rifles that doesn't need more elevation. I am dying to hold and look through one.
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Could you please elaborate on the need for more elevation, how far out distance wise are you talking?2,000yards? More?Less?
 
I get where you're coming from. And agree with a lot of that sentiment,

But I have tended to look at it as a positive thing as I get overwhelmed with too many choices. Like chocolate, vanilla, or strawberry is what you chose from- no butterfingers mixed in with chocolate drizzle bits; But its the best damn chocolate, vanilla, strawberry your could ask for. In a lot of ways that subtle panache and elegance is worth more than an overabundance of choices.
 
The Kahles k312i is one of my favorite scopes for gas guns. I know they weren't selling well but why discontinue them altogether.
 
Jibnast said:
The Kahles k312i is one of my favorite scopes for gas guns. I know they weren't selling well but why discontinue them altogether.
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Damn shame. Would go great on my AR once I get rid of my NXS.
 
CBDR said:
Concur 100 %. Love my 624i, but come on,,,, offer something for a hunting optic. I have a Swaro Z6 and its a top shelve optic. But always a little concerned she may be a bit to delicate. My eyes are leaning away from Kahles & that entryTT has my interest.
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Since Swarovski North America is importing Kahles now, I doubt they will bring in any of the hunting scopes. Also seeing as they have tried to do it twice in the past 10 years and have pulled out of the market, I don't see it happening again. But stranger things have happened.
 
Jibnast said:
The Kahles k312i is one of my favorite scopes for gas guns. I know they weren't selling well but why discontinue them altogether.
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I would like a K4-16i, in 50 mm. I like the glass in my K624i, but, I wouldn't mind if Kahles amped up the contrast a little more.
 
Chris@InterstateGuns said:
Since Swarovski North America is importing Kahles now, I doubt they will bring in any of the hunting scopes. Also seeing as they have tried to do it twice in the past 10 years and have pulled out of the market, I don't see it happening again. But stranger things have happened.
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I hope they have more than one in the works. BUT, adding one more will pretty much double the products that are of primary interest to us.

Guess I'll wait a while longer- been seven or eight months since I first heard something was in the works. I suppose I can wait a little longer.
 
Just Macca said:
4-20x50 at 12 inches and under 30oz. That would be excellent.
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LOL. You asking that of the same brand who made a 3-12 as long as a regular SB320, and simply bigger than a NF315F1 or TT315M? The scope you seek already exists: SB520US.
 
It looks like K16i is being discontinued ...at least that’s what is showing on optics planet. Don’t see replacement scope at all


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Chris@InterstateGuns said:
Don't worry. You'll see a replacement shipping pretty soon. I'm surprised they didn't launch at IWA.
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Thank God. Been waiting for something like that for YEARS. They need a 3-18x50 or a 5-25x56. I enjoy my k312i AMR but can’t see it as anything but a good scope for something like an AR10. It lags on my Desert Tech, makes me really miss my Premier I sold to buy it.

Kahles has amazing reticles and really useful intelligent features but their lineup is really behimd the competition as far as magnifications.

Would be great to see them come up with locking turrets or MTC but those are pipe dreams
 
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Why do you say it is not a good match for all of your precision rifles?

I'm just curious because the k624i's are all I have on my rifles.
 
FALex said:
Why do you say it is not a good match for all of your precision rifles?

I'm just curious because the k624i's are all I have on my rifles.
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Too large. I don’t need a telescope on my .223 Bolt Gun and large frame ARs.
 
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DP425 said:
SMK3... that 3-18 is going to be just the ticket! Well, assuming it isn’t a massively large optic anyway
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Same bere, I was about to pull the trigger on a 3-15 but already wishing I had more magnification or a 3-18 Mk6 and just deal with the less then stellar glass but I’m now waiting on this. If it comes in at 14” or shorter and less then 35 ounces I will be extremely happy.
 
Do my eyes deceive me... Kahles has a FFP 3-18 coming out? This could make things very interesting for sure depending on the specs, been waiting for Kahles to break the 4x erector barrier for a while now.
 
wjm308 said:
Do my eyes deceive me... Kahles has a FFP 3-18 coming out? This could make things very interesting for sure depending on the specs, been waiting for Kahles to break the 4x erector barrier for a while now.
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Even more interesting, You'd have to believe that if they are rolling a 6x erector, it will eventually migrate into a replacement for the K624i. Will we see a K530i around SHOT19? Take my money!
 
DP425 said:
Even more interesting, You'd have to believe that if they are rolling a 6x erector, it will eventually migrate into a replacement for the K624i. Will we see a K530i around SHOT19? Take my money!
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Stop, STOP! If Kahles came out with a K530i with improved optical formula and multicoatings to help correct the CA issues... but let's not get ahead of ourselves, I'm anxiously waiting for pics and specs of the 3-18 and if they have indeed hit a home run, then we won't be alone calling on Kahles to deliver a 5-30x56 which may already be in the works!
 
Any pics or specs of the Kahles 3-18 yet? I'm assuming Kahles will have a booth at SHOT and this scope will be prominently featured.
 
wjm308 said:
Any pics or specs of the Kahles 3-18 yet? I'm assuming Kahles will have a booth at SHOT and this scope will be prominently featured.
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Kahles will likely have a section int he Swarovski booth. I will go visit. A 3-18x50 would go a long way to re-establish Kahles as a company that makes more than one scope. I really liked the K312i and a 3-18x50 is the next natural step from there.

ILya
 
koshkin said:
Kahles will likely have a section int he Swarovski booth. I will go visit. A 3-18x50 would go a long way to re-establish Kahles as a company that makes more than one scope. I really liked the K312i and a 3-18x50 is the next natural step from there.

ILya
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Looking foward to the report
 
CS Tactical posted this earlier. Just hoping it will be available with the AMR reticle to match my others.
 

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Ultrashort and lightweight riflescope for demanding shooters
.: Ultrashort and lightweight riflescope for demanding shooters
.: Innovative, patented TWIST GUARD windage
.: High contrast image
.: Precise and clearly defined click mechanism
.: Exceptional repeat accuracy
.: Large adjustment range E/W (3.0/2.4 m/100m)
.: Zero Stop
.: Parallax wheel integrated in the elevation turret (patented) 25m - infinity
32.59oz
 
32 oz and 12.5" length. This thing is going to be really popular.
 
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Dang that sure is perty! A little bummed it's not 6x but rather 5x (3.5-18x50). There's one thing I think that will keep this scope from being popular, at 3,200 euro's that equates to just over $3900 USD so unless the US Distributor is able to get the price down under $3500 I don't think this scope is worth it and I'll explain why in a minute, but first some eye candy...

Kahles_K318i_01.jpg

Kahles_K318i_02.jpg


Kahles_K318i_03.jpg


Kahles_K318i_04.jpg


Kahles_K318i_05.jpg


Kahles_K318i_06.jpg
 
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Okay, now that I've baited with some eye candy I have to say that I am a bit baffled at Kahles' release with this scope. In their marketing material it mentions they "took many years in development" and if that is the case then the design team would have been well aware of the Schmidt & Bender Ultra Short 3-20x50 that has been available for several years now. If the Kahles came in at a price lower than the Schmidt US then I can see it, but apparently their price is more than the Schmidt and that I just cannot fathom. Here are the specs as I was able to interpret them of the Kahles K318i vs the S&B Ultra Short 3-20x50

Kahles_K318i_v_S&BUS320.jpg


So here's the thing, what differentiates the Kahles K318i from the S&B US 3-20 which validates a higher cost? Kahles is just over an inch shorter, okay I'll give you that, but the S&B US 5-20 is even shorter at 11.8" so it's not the "shortest". Kahles also mentions "The optical system with large field of view"; however, when comparing the FOV values the Schmidt absolutely crushes it, 39' at 3x for the Schmidt compared to just 28' at 3.5x for the Kahles and at top magnification the Schmidt is able to get 6.3' at 20x vs. 5.5' at 18x for the Kahles so even at top mag the Schmidt manages to get more in the field at 20x than Kahles does at 18x. The Schmidt also manages to be almost 1 oz lighter. The Schmidt also comes with nice Tenabraex caps which also adds value and while Kahles lists equipment of a "Sunshade, flip up caps and a kill flash, I am not certain if all those items are included or available as additional options. Granted the Kahles offers the nice SKMR3 reticle, but once the Schmidt Ultra Short offers the MSR2 and the LRR-Mil reticles it will make it harder for me to consider the Kahles near the same price point for the aforementioned reasons. Also, Kahles has struggled with heavy CA in their scopes in the past so hopefully they have been able to resolve that issue with this scope based on what their marketing material says "exceptionally high-contrast, brilliant image sets new standards for ultrashort riflescopes." Can Kahles really have beaten Schmidt at image quality and CA?

For those who've read my posts before, I am not a brand follower, I am a fan of most any brand that builds scopes that fit my needs and while I think the Kahles could fit my needs for my next large frame AR build, to be honest when I see the comparison I've done above I think the Schmidt Ultra Short 3-20x50 is still the winner at this price point and to be honest, I think the Kahles would need to be around $800 cheaper for me to consider it over the Schmidt and that is assuming the image quality is on par with Schmidt and that jury is still out.
 
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^^^ Totally agree. The only measurable positive I can see that the Kahles would bring to the table over the S&B 3-20 is if you're a lefty: We wouldn't have to deal with the illum knob while running the bolt.
 
That's a good point Jon, definitely an advantage for lefties. Obviously we have to wait and see what this scope finally comes to the US Market as in order to give it a fair shot, right now it looks like it'll come to market at close to $4000 and I just don't see a whole lotta shooters getting excited about that. If a company is going to get "innovative" then we need to see something different, but based on the marketing material so far I am just not seeing much different to justify a price even close to the Schmidt & Bender. Now, if Kahles was able to match Tangent Theta in image quality and turrets, then I suppose this will raise some eyebrows, but that is a very tall order to expect that Kahles will be able to pull that off. And if the IQ is under Schmidt then why would someone choose this over the Ultra Short? The way I see it, I am okay sacrificing 1.3" in length to get the 20x at the top end and greater FOV throughout the range that the Schmidt offers. Sadly I won't be able to attend SHOT next week but look forward to ILya's and Frank's thoughts as they report back.

I watched ILya's video in the Vudu thread regarding the challenges with short scope designs and he used the Hensoldt 4-16x56 as an example and it got me really thinking about that scope design and part of what differentiates it from all others is the big 56mm objective. I think if Kahles were to have setup the K318i the same way, as a 3.5-18x56 then it would have been much more intriguing than their 50mm design and may have justified their price point.
 
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I agree the price point will be hard to swallow. I hadn't seen that.


Whew doggy.
 
TheMammoth said:
I agree the price point will be hard to swallow. I hadn't seen that.


Whew doggy.
Click to expand...
TheMammoth said:
I agree the price point will be hard to swallow. I hadn't seen that.


Whew doggy.
Click to expand...
I was really excited about this optic going on my latest build. Price point is a deal breaker. I guess that 3k deal I got on my S&B Ultra Short from Euro optic was worth it. MCS carbon Fiber. Stiller Tac 30 with a 20" #4 contour Brux. Next stop Primal Rights for the TT 3x15.
AO2.jpg
 
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