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Kettlebell vs sandbags

rookie7

Outdoorsman
Full Member
Minuteman
Jan 26, 2009
971
243
Georgia
Morning,

A friend of mine who does CrossFit training says if you can purchase only one piece of training equipment the duffel/sand bags are the best - example - the Wreck Bag.

I’m only interested in health, functional strength, not mass.

Anyone here train with sand bags? Experiences?
Thank you
 
I left this out - or is a kettlebell the ultimate stand alone for building fitness and functional strength.
 
They are both good, but neither is going to be as good as a barbell. I use sandbags a lot for conditioning, but for strength they are pretty lacking as increasing load is a huge pain in the ass. Kettlebells are not dissimilar in that way.

Not sure there is a difference between functional strength and non functional strength. It is a concept that a lot of not that strong people buy into, and building any strength is good. But I guarantee you that the guy who can squat 500 lbs and deadlift 500 lbs is the guy you want with you when it comes to loading firewood in your truck. That is basically what functional strength is.
 
If you can only own one piece of equipment, it should be a barbell.

But if you're dead set on either a SB or KB, then go with a SB. Don't overthink it. Grab a few sea bags (duffle bags) or kit bags (helmet bags) and fill them with either sand or wood stove pellets. Wood stove pellets are cheap and about $5 for 40#. They have mass to them so you can fill a sea bag with 100+ pounds or do a hybrid of sand and pellets. If you end up doing drags with them at the end of a rope, then I suggest doubling up the bags. I have various bags of differing weights with both of these fillers.

I know some people use rubber mulch for filler, but I've never tried it. Might be a good all-weather choice over sand or wood pellets.
 
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Hi,

The absolute most important piece of equipment for strength, endurance, cardio, combo of all them is..................

The FORK!!!!

No piece of equipment provides any results if the FORK is out of balance.

There are only 2 ways to look at calories/food you take in....you either have to burn it or you wear it!!

Sincerely,
Theis
 
Hi,

The absolute most important piece of equipment for strength, endurance, cardio, combo of all them is..................

The FORK!!!!

No piece of equipment provides any results if the FORK is out of balance.

There are only 2 ways to look at calories/food you take in....you either have to burn it or you wear it!!

Sincerely,
Theis
That is Forkist and we don't allow that kind of talk here.

#AllUtensilsMatter
 
Hi,

The absolute most important piece of equipment for strength, endurance, cardio, combo of all them is..................

The FORK!!!!

No piece of equipment provides any results if the FORK is out of balance.

There are only 2 ways to look at calories/food you take in....you either have to burn it or you wear it!!

Sincerely,
Theis
This is truth.

I have the wreck bags, and the rubber fill is nice. I do get ups with them for ten minutes after squatting. Never really used them for other activities than get ups.
 
I've been working on Set Downs and Push Backs.
It's pretty easy.

The most difficult part is when the kids come rolling through the living room at 8:30 with snacks or bags of popcorn.
Hard to resist, and I'm still not immune to it.
 
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I've been working on Set Downs and Push Backs.
It's pretty easy.

The most difficult part is when the kids come rolling through the living room at 8:30 with snacks or bags of popcorn.
Hard to resist, and I'm still not immune to it.

Hi,

O man that is an easy fix and your wife/kids will absolutely love and support you in this training method...

Go buy a tritronics shock collar and give your wife/kids the remote....everytime you reach for that snack they get to press the protected red button.

Sincerely,
Theis
 
I've been working on Set Downs and Push Backs.
It's pretty easy.

The most difficult part is when the kids come rolling through the living room at 8:30 with snacks or bags of popcorn.
Hard to resist, and I'm still not immune to it.
I think how much somebody cheats is going to be personal preference. For me, I literally do not cheat unless forced, and by forced it is basically my wife saying we are eating something for her birthday or she is witholding sex. Other people can get away with cheating on a regular basis and not making it a habit. It can even be helpful to them overall. I spent the first 20 years of my career flying around, going to fancy dinners etc, so I feel like I have had my fill of that for a lifetime, which might help me. But in the end, you just decide how strict you are going to be, and you do it.
 
Gonna be like everyone else here and say the barbell should be your core piece of equipment. Kettlebell is used for conditioning (swings, get-ups, etc) and sandbags are used for much the same.
 
It goes without saying, that if you are just starting out, you are going to get great results just from doing something strenuous, even if it isn't the perfect, most ideal thing. You'll feel better too. And probably have more sex. That goes for kettlebell, sandbag or barbell.
 
If you throw the sandbags around, eventually they will leak.
You might scratch a KB.
Good adj dumbbells are great to have as 'one' piece of gear but they are $$.

A single SB or KB would not be sufficient to do much of anything, esp if one is just starting out (within a week or two they should surpass that weight). Why not put that $ toward even a Planet Fitness membership (it sounds about the right speed and I think it is like $10 / month).

Otherwise, run at the park and MSU (make shit up) - incline and decline push ups off the bench, pick up rocks above your head (repeatedly), pull ups on the playground, all while running a circuit.

THEIS is right - we're either burning it or wearing it.
 
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If you throw the sandbags around, eventually they will leak.
You might scratch a KB.
Good adj dumb bells are great to have as 'one' piece of gear but they are $$.

A single SB or KB would not be sufficient to do much of anything, esp if one is just starting out (within a week or two they should surpass that weight). Why not put that $ toward even a Planet Fitness membership (it sounds about the right speed and I think it is like $10 / month).

Otherwise, run at the park and MSU (make shit up) - incline and decline push ups off the bench, pick up rocks above your head (repeatedly), pull ups on the playground, all while running a circuit.

THEIS is right - we're either burning it or wearing it.
This works.

I typically spend a lot of days away from home. One of the hotels I frequent has some rather tall grass hills surround the loading docks.

I'll go out there, starting at the top, hustle down, hustle up and do five burpees.

Then I do it again. 5 or 6 times is a good way to get the heart pumping.

Sometimes I'll switch it up with sit ups or push-ups in between.
 
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If you throw the sandbags around, eventually they will leak.
You might scratch a KB.
Good adj dumb bells are great to have as 'one' piece of gear but they are $$.

A single SB or KB would not be sufficient to do much of anything, esp if one is just starting out (within a week or two they should surpass that weight). Why not put that $ toward even a Planet Fitness membership (it sounds about the right speed and I think it is like $10 / month).

Otherwise, run at the park and MSU (make shit up) - incline and decline push ups off the bench, pick up rocks above your head (repeatedly), pull ups on the playground, all while running a circuit.

THEIS is right - we're either burning it or wearing it.
Well, there is another aspect to what Theis is saying as well. If you want to wear more muscle, you have to eat for it.

Body weight stuff is fine, but eventually, to progress you end up having to do a LOT of reps, because you can't as easily add weight. There is really very little you can't get done with a barbell... My personal philosophy is to do things that are very hard, and not for a long time. It just makes everything easier, and I can avoid running. :)
 
Body weight stuff is fine, but eventually, to progress you end up having to do a LOT of reps, because you can't as easily add weight. There is really very little you can't get done with a barbell... My personal philosophy is to do things that are very hard, and not for a long time. It just makes everything easier, and I can avoid running. :)

High-rep bodyweight stuff is going to get into HIIT territory at some point, and sustained HIIT workouts can lead to overtraining, burn-out, insulin resistance, and wacked cortisol/testosterone ratios if not balanced using a polarized training model.

Barbells are good, even for those of us not looking to lift huge weights. Kettlebells are certainly useful for a variety of exercises if a sufficient range of weights is available. I don't have much experience with sandbags; seems like this is something that would be a tertiary priority simply due to the bulk (which presumably is going to limit the range of motion that can be explored).

Regardless of specifics, moving more and eating better is almost never the wrong choice. Good luck to the OP on this journey.
 
Hi,

O man that is an easy fix and your wife/kids will absolutely love and support you in this training method...

Go buy a tritronics shock collar and give your wife/kids the remote....everytime you reach for that snack they get to press the protected red button.

Sincerely,
Theis
I have met his wife. Here is how i think that would go

mike: son of a bitch rebecca, what the hell was that for??
Rebecca : sorry mike i thought you were reaching for that snack on the counter
Mike: damnit woman i am cutting the grass
Rebecca: sorry mike. My bad😊
 
Functional strength and gym strength are different. I might feel that way because I'm "not that strong". I do know that I have a few gym rat buddies who swear their workout is balanced but they struggle to draw my bow that I shoot pretty casually. They can all do their cute lifts with way more weight than I can but I guess I don't bench much IRL nor do I work concrete, so there is that.

I have a rancher buddy who is skinny as hell, never been in a gym in his life. When I saw the fucker throw a big ass grader tire on while I was walking over to help him I realized gym strength and functional strength (rancher strength) are real differences. Who knows he probably blew 3 disks doing it but doesn't care. Fucker is tough as hell. Watched a horse buck him off and crush the shit out of his foot. Hopped back on and finished the day. I was thinking, must have looked worse than it was. Then I saw his foot the next day. Full black, toenails gone, gross. I would have been calling for an evac much less sticking my foot back in the stirrup of that asshole horse. I've toughed out some shit but that dude can make you feel like a pussy.
 
Morning,

A friend of mine who does CrossFit training says if you can purchase only one piece of training equipment the duffel/sand bags are the best - example - the Wreck Bag.

I’m only interested in health, functional strength, not mass.

Anyone here train with sand bags? Experiences?
Thank you

Think of it in terms of running.

Running on sand; sandbags. Running on concrete; kettlebells.

One of those is much easier than the other even when grade and distance is the same. There's a number of reasons why but the obvious and simple explanation is the sand requires more work because it absorbs energy.

In regards to whether it's some kind of magic wand that makes you have more functional strength instead of bulk... no. Using the tools you have correctly will do that. You can use dead weights incorrectly, you can use sandbags incorrectly, you can literally walk incorrectly. So, no there's not a simple answer. Do what works best for you. If you're going to a trainer do what they tell you to or stop going to a trainer if you're not coachable.
 
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High-rep bodyweight stuff is going to get into HIIT territory at some point, and sustained HIIT workouts can lead to overtraining, burn-out, insulin resistance, and wacked cortisol/testosterone ratios if not balanced using a polarized training model.
Interesting. About 2.5 years ago, I started what was labeled a HIIT routine. As originally conceived, the workout included 4 sets of 10 pushups, 20 mountain climbers and 10 burpees. Do 1 set, short rest, do the next set, etc. The whole routine (total of 40 pushups, 80 mountain climbers and 40 burpees) was supposed to be finished in 20 minutes.

After a while, the original workout felt less challenging. I just turned 60 in March and I now do a total of 61 pushups, 220 mountain climbers and 61 burpees in about 18 minutes. I never break it down into 4 sets anymore. The pushups I usually do 40/21 sets or 30/31 sets (different positions using pushup bars). The mountain climbers I do in 1 set always, usually in between the sets of pushups. And then I finish with the 61 burpees, generally taking a quick breather at the 30 or 40 rep point.

Since I started, I do this workout almost every day in addition to a couple of 5K hikes and other normal home owner activities such as guiding a push mower around the yard or shoveling snow. I do try to listen to my body if I start to feel unusually achy or worn out. And of course, if I injure myself while sleeping (at my age that seems to happen more than when I'm awake), I adjust as necessary. During this time, I've lost 3-4 inches around my waist and gained muscle at an age that it is common to be losing muscle mass. I've only lost about 10 pounds overall, but I've obviously replaced a bunch of bad weight I lost with good muscle weight. Currently I weight about 195 pounds (6'1" tall).

Having provided that background (sorry if it was too much), your quote piqued my interest because I seem to have plateaued somewhat in the fat losing category. I was drawn to this type of workout because I don't have time to consistently dedicate an hour a day to a planned workout. And if I did, I'd probably have trouble sticking to it over the long haul. So an intense 20-minute strength-building/cardio workout with the promise of continuing to burn calories after the workout ended appealed to me. I know that at 60 years old I'm not going to have 6-pack abs again (largely because I'm too fond of beer, wine and some non-diet foods and I enjoy life too much to make that sacrifice). However, I'd still like to lose another 1" or so of what seems like perma-flab. I'm curious as to what type of workout(s) you'd suggest to alternate with the HIIT workouts on some type of schedule.
 
Functional strength and gym strength are different. I might feel that way because I'm "not that strong". I do know that I have a few gym rat buddies who swear their workout is balanced but they struggle to draw my bow that I shoot pretty casually. They can all do their cute lifts with way more weight than I can but I guess I don't bench much IRL nor do I work concrete, so there is that.

I have a rancher buddy who is skinny as hell, never been in a gym in his life. When I saw the fucker throw a big ass grader tire on while I was walking over to help him I realized gym strength and functional strength (rancher strength) are real differences. Who knows he probably blew 3 disks doing it but doesn't care. Fucker is tough as hell. Watched a horse buck him off and crush the shit out of his foot. Hopped back on and finished the day. I was thinking, must have looked worse than it was. Then I saw his foot the next day. Full black, toenails gone, gross. I would have been calling for an evac much less sticking my foot back in the stirrup of that asshole horse. I've toughed out some shit but that dude can make you feel like a pussy.
Drawing a bow is a skill, it is not just strength. But as to the rest, it is pretty much a given that a guy who can deadlift more can pick up heavier shit, etc. Strong is strong. Functional strength, as you define it, is knowing how to use your strength and apply it to a skill. But obviously if you could row more weight, you could pull back a stronger bow string. Not that it matters.
 
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Regardless of specifics, moving more and eating better is almost never the wrong choice. Good luck to the OP on this journey.
This is the answer. The great thing in the beginning is that you get a lot out of what will seem like minimal work a year from now.
 
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Interesting. About 2.5 years ago, I started what was labeled a HIIT routine. As originally conceived, the workout included 4 sets of 10 pushups, 20 mountain climbers and 10 burpees. Do 1 set, short rest, do the next set, etc. The whole routine (total of 40 pushups, 80 mountain climbers and 40 burpees) was supposed to be finished in 20 minutes.

After a while, the original workout felt less challenging. I just turned 60 in March and I now do a total of 61 pushups, 220 mountain climbers and 61 burpees in about 18 minutes. I never break it down into 4 sets anymore. The pushups I usually do 40/21 sets or 30/31 sets (different positions using pushup bars). The mountain climbers I do in 1 set always, usually in between the sets of pushups. And then I finish with the 61 burpees, generally taking a quick breather at the 30 or 40 rep point.

Since I started, I do this workout almost every day in addition to a couple of 5K hikes and other normal home owner activities such as guiding a push mower around the yard or shoveling snow. I do try to listen to my body if I start to feel unusually achy or worn out. And of course, if I injure myself while sleeping (at my age that seems to happen more than when I'm awake), I adjust as necessary. During this time, I've lost 3-4 inches around my waist and gained muscle at an age that it is common to be losing muscle mass. I've only lost about 10 pounds overall, but I've obviously replaced a bunch of bad weight I lost with good muscle weight. Currently I weight about 195 pounds (6'1" tall).

Having provided that background (sorry if it was too much), your quote piqued my interest because I seem to have plateaued somewhat in the fat losing category. I was drawn to this type of workout because I don't have time to consistently dedicate an hour a day to a planned workout. And if I did, I'd probably have trouble sticking to it over the long haul. So an intense 20-minute strength-building/cardio workout with the promise of continuing to burn calories after the workout ended appealed to me. I know that at 60 years old I'm not going to have 6-pack abs again (largely because I'm too fond of beer, wine and some non-diet foods and I enjoy life too much to make that sacrifice). However, I'd still like to lose another 1" or so of what seems like perma-flab. I'm curious as to what type of workout(s) you'd suggest to alternate with the HIIT workouts on some type of schedule.

OK, so there is a lot to unpack here. First and foremost, props to sticking to that sort of rigorous workout at your age. I hope to be doing the same 15 years from now.

Now, when it comes to your workout, you're doing a lot of things correctly. You've got some stuff in there that is getting your heart rate up, you're probably applying an appropriate amount of force to maintain muscle and bone mass, and your hikes and "normal home owner activities" are really beneficial because they are providing some active recovery (this is likely helping you avoid the undesirable effects that can occur by doing only high-intensity work that creeps past the aerobic threshold).

What's also happening is that your body has become more efficient. You're no longer enjoying any substantial post-workout caloric burn; in fact, you're probably burning fewer calories when not moving because your body is responding to the stress by conserving energy.

Cutting out the parts of your diet that you know are a problem is obviously the low-hanging fruit, but you've made it clear that you don't want to make that sacrifice, and that's fine. If you've got the time, do more low-intensity work like hikes, and maybe add in some resistance with a ruck as your body allows. Rowing or swimming could also be good activities for you. Cycling can burn serious calories and is low-impact if you are better than I at keeping the rubber side down, but despite my love for bikes, I'll admit that it's not particularly beneficial when it comes to whole-body functional strength. But regardless of the activity, don't use this as an excuse to eat more; you'll only burn a few hundred calories per hour, and so a couple pieces of pizza will counterbalance a good hike.

You could also try changing up the macro content of your diet. Plenty of people have experienced success with keto and find its restrictions to be quite acceptable (I'm not one of them, but there are plenty of advocates and you should listen to them).
 
OK, so there is a lot to unpack here. First and foremost, props to sticking to that sort of rigorous workout at your age. I hope to be doing the same 15 years from now.

Now, when it comes to your workout, you're doing a lot of things correctly. You've got some stuff in there that is getting your heart rate up, you're probably applying an appropriate amount of force to maintain muscle and bone mass, and your hikes and "normal home owner activities" are really beneficial because they are providing some active recovery (this is likely helping you avoid the undesirable effects that can occur by doing only high-intensity work that creeps past the aerobic threshold).

What's also happening is that your body has become more efficient. You're no longer enjoying any substantial post-workout caloric burn; in fact, you're probably burning fewer calories when not moving because your body is responding to the stress by conserving energy.

Cutting out the parts of your diet that you know are a problem is obviously the low-hanging fruit, but you've made it clear that you don't want to make that sacrifice, and that's fine. If you've got the time, do more low-intensity work like hikes, and maybe add in some resistance with a ruck as your body allows. Rowing or swimming could also be good activities for you. Cycling can burn serious calories and is low-impact if you are better than I at keeping the rubber side down, but despite my love for bikes, I'll admit that it's not particularly beneficial when it comes to whole-body functional strength. But regardless of the activity, don't use this as an excuse to eat more; you'll only burn a few hundred calories per hour, and so a couple pieces of pizza will counterbalance a good hike.

You could also try changing up the macro content of your diet. Plenty of people have experienced success with keto and find its restrictions to be quite acceptable (I'm not one of them, but there are plenty of advocates and you should listen to them).
Yeah, a lot of stuff for diet and exercise is really personal once you get past the initial basics. For example, I am really careful with my diet, because I am getting old and fighting it, and in being careful, I've been eating oatmeal for breakfast for some years. It is good for my heart, healthy carbs, etc. Problem is, I realized finally that it basically put me in a coma. I had to start waking up earlier and earlier to work out at 8:30 because I needed an hour and a half to digest, at which point I needed more carbs for a hard workout, ruining the entire plan. Going to chicken and eggs for breakfast has changed everything for me energy wise. I feel fine, and can then add carbs right before I work out, and it allows me to have some more carbs mid day instead of having to be careful. So much of it is trial and error.

Working out too. I am naturally a good squatter, because I have really good stretch reflex. I could dunk a basketball at 5'11 and white until my mid 30s. But I would hit a wall I couldn't squat through, because I was faster than strong. Doing box squats, where you take away all the stretch reflex (my advantage) is humbling for me, but it finally got me through. Just an example, there are more. You learn about your body pretty quickly.
 
Hi,

The absolute most important piece of equipment for strength, endurance, cardio, combo of all them is..................

The FORK!!!!

No piece of equipment provides any results if the FORK is out of balance.

There are only 2 ways to look at calories/food you take in....you either have to burn it or you wear it!!

Sincerely,
Theis


SPOOOOOOOOONNNNNNN
 
OK, so there is a lot to unpack here. First and foremost, props to sticking to that sort of rigorous workout at your age. I hope to be doing the same 15 years from now.

Now, when it comes to your workout, you're doing a lot of things correctly. You've got some stuff in there that is getting your heart rate up, you're probably applying an appropriate amount of force to maintain muscle and bone mass, and your hikes and "normal home owner activities" are really beneficial because they are providing some active recovery (this is likely helping you avoid the undesirable effects that can occur by doing only high-intensity work that creeps past the aerobic threshold).

What's also happening is that your body has become more efficient. You're no longer enjoying any substantial post-workout caloric burn; in fact, you're probably burning fewer calories when not moving because your body is responding to the stress by conserving energy.

Cutting out the parts of your diet that you know are a problem is obviously the low-hanging fruit, but you've made it clear that you don't want to make that sacrifice, and that's fine. If you've got the time, do more low-intensity work like hikes, and maybe add in some resistance with a ruck as your body allows. Rowing or swimming could also be good activities for you. Cycling can burn serious calories and is low-impact if you are better than I at keeping the rubber side down, but despite my love for bikes, I'll admit that it's not particularly beneficial when it comes to whole-body functional strength. But regardless of the activity, don't use this as an excuse to eat more; you'll only burn a few hundred calories per hour, and so a couple pieces of pizza will counterbalance a good hike.

You could also try changing up the macro content of your diet. Plenty of people have experienced success with keto and find its restrictions to be quite acceptable (I'm not one of them, but there are plenty of advocates and you should listen to them).

I don't want to give the wrong impression, my wife and I do try to eat healthy. We've been doing a lot of paleo meals, especially during the week. But we often have a glass of wine with those meals. Weekends we may indulge ourselves a bit more. So I don't have a total disregard for healthy eating. But once in a while a guy needs some pizza or a cheese burger.

As for other forms of exercise, we do have an elliptical machine and a Bowflex machine at home. But before the HIIT workouts, I didn't seem to be making any progress with burning fat while doing four 40-minute workouts a week. Recently, I've only been using the Bowflex for a few reps that the HIIT workout doesn't really target or to get some work in if I can jump around doing burpees because of something like a knee or back tweak.

On the elliptical, I usually try to go at a fast pace and keep the mph up as best I can. Are you suggesting that I'd be better off at a more moderate pace? Also, would it be better to work in some less aerobic but perhaps heavier reps on the Bowflex?

Thanks for the advice you guys.
 
Yeah, a lot of stuff for diet and exercise is really personal once you get past the initial basics. For example, I am really careful with my diet, because I am getting old and fighting it, and in being careful, I've been eating oatmeal for breakfast for some years. It is good for my heart, healthy carbs, etc. Problem is, I realized finally that it basically put me in a coma. I had to start waking up earlier and earlier to work out at 8:30 because I needed an hour and a half to digest, at which point I needed more carbs for a hard workout, ruining the entire plan. Going to chicken and eggs for breakfast has changed everything for me energy wise. I feel fine, and can then add carbs right before I work out, and it allows me to have some more carbs mid day instead of having to be careful. So much of it is trial and error.

Working out too. I am naturally a good squatter, because I have really good stretch reflex. I could dunk a basketball at 5'11 and white until my mid 30s. But I would hit a wall I couldn't squat through, because I was faster than strong. Doing box squats, where you take away all the stretch reflex (my advantage) is humbling for me, but it finally got me through. Just an example, there are more. You learn about your body pretty quickly.

I can do really dumb things to my body and still have an effective workout. Eat two frosted donuts, wash them down with a can of energy drink, and then hop on a bike 15 minutes later and pedal my ass off for two hours? Sure! Eat five tacos for dinner, wash them down with some pre-workout, and then hammer the pedals? Yep! Two bowls of cereal and milk, and then hit the squat rack 30 minutes later? I'm in. This unfortunately means that I do not have to exert any discipline over my diet and thus have picked up a ton of bad habits over my 45 years on this earth. My diet remains a work in progress.

I don't have much of this so-called "stretch reflex". My vertical leap was only 30" or so at its best, despite being featherweight at the time and able to apply considerable force through my legs. I don't know how much of this is trainable, and how much is genetic in nature.

What is trainable to a certain extent is the balance between Type I (incorrectly called "slow twitch") and Type II (also incorrectly called "fast twitch"); one's body will adapt to the training. This will invariably tie into the body's different energy systems; Type I will get trained during aerobic efforts along with the fat-burning oxidative metabolic system in a fashion that benefits VO2_max; Type II can get trained either in anaerobic efforts using the carbohydrate-fueled glycotic system (which is pretty stressful on the body) in a fashion that improves one's ability to generate and tolerate lactic acid, or during very short high-intensity efforts using the phosphagen pathway (relatively "clean" and not particularly stressful).

One can probably infer from the above that we evolved to either move for long periods of time at relatively low output, or to move very quickly for brief periods of time. Makes sense for hunter-gatherers that occasionally had to chase down prey or escape a predator. Structuring workouts accordingly is probably a good idea.
 
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I don't want to give the wrong impression, my wife and I do try to eat healthy. We've been doing a lot of paleo meals, especially during the week. But we often have a glass of wine with those meals. Weekends we may indulge ourselves a bit more. So I don't have a total disregard for healthy eating. But once in a while a guy needs some pizza or a cheese burger.

As for other forms of exercise, we do have an elliptical machine and a Bowflex machine at home. But before the HIIT workouts, I didn't seem to be making any progress with burning fat while doing four 40-minute workouts a week. Recently, I've only been using the Bowflex for a few reps that the HIIT workout doesn't really target or to get some work in if I can jump around doing burpees because of something like a knee or back tweak.

On the elliptical, I usually try to go at a fast pace and keep the mph up as best I can. Are you suggesting that I'd be better off at a more moderate pace? Also, would it be better to work in some less aerobic but perhaps heavier reps on the Bowflex?

Thanks for the advice you guys.

At 195 pounds, you're burning maybe 400-500 calories/hour doing middle-zone aerobic workouts. So 160 minutes total each week on the elliptical is only 1335 calories. I can easily eat that much with a single sandwich and some chips. So aerobic workouts are not the way to compensate for a poor diet. I'm the poster child for this advice, by the way 😔

You want exercise that does the following:

1) Provides cardiovascular benefits. 30 minutes/day of light aerobic work is all it takes. More than 10 hours/week can actually be detrimental, especially if your heart rate goes beyond the aerobic threshold for substantial periods of time. This is surprisingly easy to do with aggressive workouts of one hour or less. Too much anaerobic stress increases cortisol (really bad for a number of reasons) and decreases testosterone (really bad for some other reasons). So don't do that. Once again, I'm also the poster child for this advice 😔 (Come back in October when I've turned a couple hundred hours of summertime cycling into a burned-out hull of a body.)

2) Maintains strength and muscle mass. Load your body as much as you can without causing injury, because it stimulates muscle growth and improves bone strength. Body weight is fine; additional resistance is good if you don't get hurt. Avoid getting hurt, because any time off means a loss of strength that will unfortunately cost you more than you'd gain by getting aggressive.

3) Maintains flexibility and balance. Yoga isn't very manly, but I've been working on incorporating more yoga-like movements into my stretching routines and it feels like a good use of time. Some lifts inherently will improve flexibility. "Constrained" activities like cycling will hurt flexibility, so extra work will be required.

4) Is fun. Life is too short and hard for boring workouts.

Honestly, continuing to do what you're doing is probably the best advice I can give. If you do make changes, go slowly and observe the effects over time. Some of this overtraining stuff might take a few months to rear its head, and the symptoms aren't always obvious - I've had symptoms like weird rashes that were the effect of pushing too hard. Some people gain weight; others just have mood swings. It's weird stuff.
 
Thank you to everyone for your input. I’m not posting b/c I don’t have anything to add. I asked the question so I’m listening.
 
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Jump Rope.

The cardio load is amazing. The full body muscle work is the real deal. I'm talking using weighed ropes, not light, Crossfit speed ropes. Incorporate jump rope into any body weight/HIIT routine. Added advantage, you can take the rope with you anywhere and get a great workout. Check out Crossrope and many YouTube channels.
 
They are both good, but neither is going to be as good as a barbell. I use sandbags a lot for conditioning, but for strength they are pretty lacking as increasing load is a huge pain in the ass. Kettlebells are not dissimilar in that way.

Not sure there is a difference between functional strength and non functional strength. It is a concept that a lot of not that strong people buy into, and building any strength is good. But I guarantee you that the guy who can squat 500 lbs and deadlift 500 lbs is the guy you want with you when it comes to loading firewood in your truck. That is basically what functional strength is.
Strength alone isnt everything. Im old and over the hill now but when younger, as a stonemason, I could outwork guys twice my size and strength. They might lift one rock that I couldnt but that was it. I could lift rocks half that heavy all day. They had strength but I had agility and endurance. By the end of the day most of them would be dragging ass whereas I could go out drinking til midnight and be ready the next day.

Want the best conditioning exercise you can get? Swim a mile (or more) three times a week.

Ah for my mis spent youth.
 
Strength alone isnt everything. Im old and over the hill now but when younger, as a stonemason, I could outwork guys twice my size and strength. They might lift one rock that I couldnt but that was it. I could lift rocks half that heavy all day. They had strength but I had agility and endurance. By the end of the day most of them would be dragging ass whereas I could go out drinking til midnight and be ready the next day.

Want the best conditioning exercise you can get? Swim a mile (or more) three times a week.

Ah for my mis spent youth.
Same as the bow example. You are talking about a skill plus strength. Some people might mistake that for "functional strength" but it is two different inputs. Increasing your strength while keeping your level of skill would have made you better, unless it created some other problem.

None of this is to say that having the most muscle on your body possible is always an advantage. It clearly isn't. For example, I am about 190 normally. A few years ago I put on a good bit of extra muscle, got to 210. Probably a little fat, but the majority muscle. I was stronger than I had been, which was great, but it was also more of a pain in the ass to drag the extra 20 up a hill during hunting season. But that is a downside to size, not strength. Having the most possible strength, keeping other constraints like size in mind, is always a benefit. Nobody ever thought, if I could just squat 15 fewer pounds, everything in life would be so much easier.
 
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Hate the dufflebag style sandbags....the handles never seem to allow the weight to be properly controlled.

I bought Sandbell bags


Offer a bit more control.
Those are great for throwing. It's a true max effort exercise. Only problem is that they are light, and I think the difficulty controlling the weight is a feature, not a bug, of sandbag training.
 
The real lesson here is to make sure you choke your chicken with both hands. You don't want one arm to look like Popeyes and the other arm to look like a wet noodle....balance is key.
 
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Hi,

O man that is an easy fix and your wife/kids will absolutely love and support you in this training method...

Go buy a tritronics shock collar and give your wife/kids the remote....everytime you reach for that snack they get to press the protected red button.

Sincerely,
Theis
You have the right idea but the wrong target for the collars. They go on the kids. Walk into the room with snacks. Zap them.
 
Same as the bow example. You are talking about a skill plus strength. Some people might mistake that for "functional strength" but it is two different inputs. Increasing your strength while keeping your level of skill would have made you better, unless it created some other problem.

None of this is to say that having the most muscle on your body possible is always an advantage. It clearly isn't. For example, I am about 190 normally. A few years ago I put on a good bit of extra muscle, got to 210. Probably a little fat, but the majority muscle. I was stronger than I had been, which was great, but it was also more of a pain in the ass to drag the extra 20 up a hill during hunting season. But that is a downside to size, not strength. Having the most possible strength, keeping other constraints like size in mind, is always a benefit. Nobody ever thought, if I could just squat 15 fewer pounds, everything in life would be so much easier.
Agreed generally. Depends on your intent. Im comfortable at 160, feel bloated if I go much above that, especially now that Im not working as much.

Bulk, for swimming is not a plus, one wants to be lean. Look at Michael Phelps. Probably one of the best athletes ever even if he did toke occasionally.

If you can add the strength w/o the bulk, then as you say, its a good thing.
 
The real lesson here is to make sure you choke your chicken with both hands. You don't want one arm to look like Popeyes and the other arm to look like a wet noodle....balance is key.
So noted.
 
Agreed generally. Depends on your intent. Im comfortable at 160, feel bloated if I go much above that, especially now that Im not working as much.

Bulk, for swimming is not a plus, one wants to be lean. Look at Michael Phelps. Probably one of the best athletes ever even if he did toke occasionally.

If you can add the strength w/o the bulk, then as you say, its a good thing.

Remember back in the day when bulk phases were awesome. Eat a bunch, lift heavy...ahhh the good Ole days. Now my joints hurt.
 
Those are great for throwing. It's a true max effort exercise. Only problem is that they are light, and I think the difficulty controlling the weight is a feature, not a bug, of sandbag training.

The one duffel Ive had used allows the bag to flop down below your wrists, gets kind of funky. I just grabbed the canvas material and bunched it up but the fucker would still sag in the middle.

Downside to these is buying individual bags.

Being a FOG Im more into practical exercise rather than increasing the stats - what type of shit do I do in the real world that can cause injury?

Timed squat/lift/press, pushups, pullups, core and cardio seem to be working out good now.
 
Same as the bow example. You are talking about a skill plus strength. Some people might mistake that for "functional strength" but it is two different inputs. Increasing your strength while keeping your level of skill would have made you better, unless it created some other problem.

None of this is to say that having the most muscle on your body possible is always an advantage. It clearly isn't. For example, I am about 190 normally. A few years ago I put on a good bit of extra muscle, got to 210. Probably a little fat, but the majority muscle. I was stronger than I had been, which was great, but it was also more of a pain in the ass to drag the extra 20 up a hill during hunting season. But that is a downside to size, not strength. Having the most possible strength, keeping other constraints like size in mind, is always a benefit. Nobody ever thought, if I could just squat 15 fewer pounds, everything in life would be so much easier.

There is a counterpoint - or perhaps a point of clarification - to be made to your last statement.

Aerobic and anaerobic power tends to be like a teeter-totter for most people. The height of the center pivot is more or less determined by genetics (and perhaps epigenetic factors as well); your training and diet determines to which side the seesaw tips and to what extent. Ultramarathoners tip this almost entirely to the aerobic side; marathoners and triathletes slightly less so. On the other side are guys like powerlifters and NFL linemen. Most gym rats are tilted more towards the anaerobic side simply because that type of power is easier to develop than aerobic power.

Weight lifting tends to build Type II muscle fiber, and the presence of of this "fast twitch" fiber tends to correlate with the production of lactic acid when given tasks that exceed the duration which can be fueled via the phosphogen system (which is about 30 seconds of work for most people). The production of lactic acid is a good thing when tasked with an anaerobic effort (everything from, say, 30 seconds in duration up to perhaps 20-30 minutes for those with substantial pain tolerance); the more lactic acid that can be produced and tolerated, the more anaerobic work that can be performed before a recovery cycle of sub-aerobic threshold work. If you want to win 1500m running races, crush a 2000m row, or drop your buddy in a bike sprint to the next stop sign, this is the mechanism to do so.

But when faced with an aerobic effort of long duration, total output can actually be reduced since that "fast twitch" muscle will produce lactic acid even at a relatively low output level (a rate of work which would be at or below the aerobic threshold for Type I "slow twitch" fiber), which in turn causes most people to slow down because lactate accumulation is uncomfortable, and it also burns up your glycogen stores faster than your gut can refill them. Someone in the 180-200lb range who is accustomed to working at lactic threshold can burn 800 kcal/hr in this mode - with over half of that being glycogen (carb) - but only replenish maybe 250 kcal/hr, and eventually that math catches up when the muscles and liver run out of stored glycogen. Won't happen in an hour-long workout at maximum intensity, but a few hours at an intensity factor of 0.9x might do it, and 6-8 hours at lower intensity factors will also be an ass-kicking. If you'd spent your time building more Type I fiber, you'd burn less glycogen for the same output, and thus could generate the same power output for longer.

Going back to your example, taking the extra time required to develop that last 15 lbs of deadlift and putting it instead into low-level aerobic work might be the better choice for a hiker, hunter, cyclist, etc. I don't know how to quantify that additional training time - is it 15 minutes/week, is it an hour a week, is it five hours a week? Is it causing stress and inflammation that will interfere with other training or one's general health? So I don't know what sort of negative effect it would actually have on one's fitness. But there is an effect, and I suspect it's quantifiable for someone who is paying close attention.
 
Remember back in the day when bulk phases were awesome. Eat a bunch, lift heavy...ahhh the good Ole days. Now my joints hurt.

I remember being 20 years old and not being able to bulk at all. I had the metabolism of a laboratory mouse on cocaine. I no longer have that problem 😢
 
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I remember being 20 years old and not being able to bulk at all. I had the metabolism of a laboratory mouse on cocaine. I no longer have that problem 😢

I was eating an ass ton but it was hard to in the teens but easier in the earlier twenties. That's when I peaked in strength/size. I wish I could go back and not lift heavy. My shoulders, knees and lower back hurt almost daily.
 
There is a counterpoint - or perhaps a point of clarification - to be made to your last statement.

Aerobic and anaerobic power tends to be like a teeter-totter for most people. The height of the center pivot is more or less determined by genetics (and perhaps epigenetic factors as well); your training and diet determines to which side the seesaw tips and to what extent. Ultramarathoners tip this almost entirely to the aerobic side; marathoners and triathletes slightly less so. On the other side are guys like powerlifters and NFL linemen. Most gym rats are tilted more towards the anaerobic side simply because that type of power is easier to develop than aerobic power.

Weight lifting tends to build Type II muscle fiber, and the presence of of this "fast twitch" fiber tends to correlate with the production of lactic acid when given tasks that exceed the duration which can be fueled via the phosphogen system (which is about 30 seconds of work for most people). The production of lactic acid is a good thing when tasked with an anaerobic effort (everything from, say, 30 seconds in duration up to perhaps 20-30 minutes for those with substantial pain tolerance); the more lactic acid that can be produced and tolerated, the more anaerobic work that can be performed before a recovery cycle of sub-aerobic threshold work. If you want to win 1500m running races, crush a 2000m row, or drop your buddy in a bike sprint to the next stop sign, this is the mechanism to do so.

But when faced with an aerobic effort of long duration, total output can actually be reduced since that "fast twitch" muscle will produce lactic acid even at a relatively low output level (a rate of work which would be at or below the aerobic threshold for Type I "slow twitch" fiber), which in turn causes most people to slow down because lactate accumulation is uncomfortable, and it also burns up your glycogen stores faster than your gut can refill them. Someone in the 180-200lb range who is accustomed to working at lactic threshold can burn 800 kcal/hr in this mode - with over half of that being glycogen (carb) - but only replenish maybe 250 kcal/hr, and eventually that math catches up when the muscles and liver run out of stored glycogen. Won't happen in an hour-long workout at maximum intensity, but a few hours at an intensity factor of 0.9x might do it, and 6-8 hours at lower intensity factors will also be an ass-kicking. If you'd spent your time building more Type I fiber, you'd burn less glycogen for the same output, and thus could generate the same power output for longer.

Going back to your example, taking the extra time required to develop that last 15 lbs of deadlift and putting it instead into low-level aerobic work might be the better choice for a hiker, hunter, cyclist, etc. I don't know how to quantify that additional training time - is it 15 minutes/week, is it an hour a week, is it five hours a week? Is it causing stress and inflammation that will interfere with other training or one's general health? So I don't know what sort of negative effect it would actually have on one's fitness. But there is an effect, and I suspect it's quantifiable for someone who is paying close attention.
This is above my pay grade, but I do agree with the last paragraph, that the opportunity cost for choosing one over the other may be too high. Still not sure that mitigates the idea that, given all other constraints, more strength rather than less is better.

I guess, for myself, I tend to dumbly do what you suggest. While I have no interest in running or biking, my yearly cycle (and remember I am in the frozen north) tends to be to lift (redacted) times a week during the "winter" with half of those being what I would consider small, supplemental workouts, and then as it thaws and dries, I lift three times a week, add rowing with sprints and weighted hikes up through hunting season, and then rinse and repeat. Because of the differences I run about a 20 lb range of weight during the year. Sometimes it all goes right, sometimes not. But basically the idea is growing the various energy systems to peak when I want them to, along with keeping skill levels up. Thankfully, I don't really have any nagging or serious injuries, and I enjoy it, especially the time of year when I get to be outside.

That said, I see your point in that at the beginning of spring I don't generally feel like I want to go long distances, but by mid summer I usually do a 10-15 mile a day backcountry trip without too many problems, other than blisters.
 
I was eating an ass ton but it was hard to in the teens but easier in the earlier twenties. That's when I peaked in strength/size. I wish I could go back and not lift heavy. My shoulders, knees and lower back hurt almost daily.

I've got a few nagging issues related to stupid stuff I did in college, but then I took a bunch of time off from regular exercise in my 20s and 30s to pursue career and family. While I got fat and weak during this phase, I also avoided a bunch of chronic issues that now plague my buddies. So now I'm fat and slow, but my joints are relatively fresh for a middle-aged guy. And I'm also left wondering what could have been if I applied my present level of discipline to my 25-year-old self. Not sure there is a "right way" to play this aging game :(

This is above my pay grade, but I do agree with the last paragraph, that the opportunity cost for choosing one over the other may be too high. Still not sure that mitigates the idea that, given all other constraints, more strength rather than less is better.

I guess, for myself, I tend to dumbly do what you suggest. While I have no interest in running or biking, my yearly cycle (and remember I am in the frozen north) tends to be to lift (redacted) times a week during the "winter" with half of those being what I would consider small, supplemental workouts, and then as it thaws and dries, I lift three times a week, add rowing with sprints and weighted hikes up through hunting season, and then rinse and repeat. Because of the differences I run about a 20 lb range of weight during the year. Sometimes it all goes right, sometimes not. But basically the idea is growing the various energy systems to peak when I want them to, along with keeping skill levels up. Thankfully, I don't really have any nagging or serious injuries, and I enjoy it, especially the time of year when I get to be outside.

That said, I see your point in that at the beginning of spring I don't generally feel like I want to go long distances, but by mid summer I usually do a 10-15 mile a day backcountry trip without too many problems, other than blisters.

Periodization is an important component of any workout - lifting, aerobic/metabolic conditioning, whatever. Those of us with varied activities and who experience significant climatic swings over the four seasons will tend to incorporate this into workouts as weather conditions dictate (probably more so for you than for me). I certainly lift more frequently in the winter and ride bikes more miles in the summer.

I encounter problems when I try to force the pendulum too far. A few winters ago, I decided that I didn't want to lose any cycling fitness during the off-season, so I spent way too much time on the indoor bike and way too little time lifting. Come spring, I had great power for that time of the year, but it quickly evaporated and I spent the summer without the strength and muscle mass required to survive bouncing off rocks and trees. Spending a winter only lifting (because that's more fun than spending time on an indoor bike) also doesn't work. Balance in all things, right?
 
Functional strength and gym strength are different. I might feel that way because I'm "not that strong". I do know that I have a few gym rat buddies who swear their workout is balanced but they struggle to draw my bow that I shoot pretty casually. They can all do their cute lifts with way more weight than I can but I guess I don't bench much IRL nor do I work concrete, so there is that.

I have a rancher buddy who is skinny as hell, never been in a gym in his life. When I saw the fucker throw a big ass grader tire on while I was walking over to help him I realized gym strength and functional strength (rancher strength) are real differences. Who knows he probably blew 3 disks doing it but doesn't care. Fucker is tough as hell. Watched a horse buck him off and crush the shit out of his foot. Hopped back on and finished the day. I was thinking, must have looked worse than it was. Then I saw his foot the next day. Full black, toenails gone, gross. I would have been calling for an evac much less sticking my foot back in the stirrup of that asshole horse. I've toughed out some shit but that dude can make you feel like a pussy.
I spent time throwing 50-70 pound hay bales up onto a trailer to unload them into a barn and toss them up into a stack to help a friend out. Spend a day or two doing that, its a solid workout. Had a younger guy who tried to help, he didn't last long.

About the horse, he had to get back on! If you don't the horse will learn that is the way to get you off and stop having to work and will try it again. Always end the ride on a good note with the horse doing what you told it to. I've been wadded up in a round pen after an unexpected blowup from a horse. Getting back up in the saddle after something like that can be challenging.
 
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I've got a few nagging issues related to stupid stuff I did in college, but then I took a bunch of time off from regular exercise in my 20s and 30s to pursue career and family. While I got fat and weak during this phase, I also avoided a bunch of chronic issues that now plague my buddies. So now I'm fat and slow, but my joints are relatively fresh for a middle-aged guy. And I'm also left wondering what could have been if I applied my present level of discipline to my 25-year-old self. Not sure there is a "right way" to play this aging game :(



Periodization is an important component of any workout - lifting, aerobic/metabolic conditioning, whatever. Those of us with varied activities and who experience significant climatic swings over the four seasons will tend to incorporate this into workouts as weather conditions dictate (probably more so for you than for me). I certainly lift more frequently in the winter and ride bikes more miles in the summer.

I encounter problems when I try to force the pendulum too far. A few winters ago, I decided that I didn't want to lose any cycling fitness during the off-season, so I spent way too much time on the indoor bike and way too little time lifting. Come spring, I had great power for that time of the year, but it quickly evaporated and I spent the summer without the strength and muscle mass required to survive bouncing off rocks and trees. Spending a winter only lifting (because that's more fun than spending time on an indoor bike) also doesn't work. Balance in all things, right?
For sure. A couple of years ago I decided strength only and my hunting season consisted only of shooting a deer from my bedroom window.
 
There is a counterpoint - or perhaps a point of clarification - to be made to your last statement.

Aerobic and anaerobic power tends to be like a teeter-totter for most people. The height of the center pivot is more or less determined by genetics (and perhaps epigenetic factors as well); your training and diet determines to which side the seesaw tips and to what extent. Ultramarathoners tip this almost entirely to the aerobic side; marathoners and triathletes slightly less so. On the other side are guys like powerlifters and NFL linemen. Most gym rats are tilted more towards the anaerobic side simply because that type of power is easier to develop than aerobic power.

Weight lifting tends to build Type II muscle fiber, and the presence of of this "fast twitch" fiber tends to correlate with the production of lactic acid when given tasks that exceed the duration which can be fueled via the phosphogen system (which is about 30 seconds of work for most people). The production of lactic acid is a good thing when tasked with an anaerobic effort (everything from, say, 30 seconds in duration up to perhaps 20-30 minutes for those with substantial pain tolerance); the more lactic acid that can be produced and tolerated, the more anaerobic work that can be performed before a recovery cycle of sub-aerobic threshold work. If you want to win 1500m running races, crush a 2000m row, or drop your buddy in a bike sprint to the next stop sign, this is the mechanism to do so.

But when faced with an aerobic effort of long duration, total output can actually be reduced since that "fast twitch" muscle will produce lactic acid even at a relatively low output level (a rate of work which would be at or below the aerobic threshold for Type I "slow twitch" fiber), which in turn causes most people to slow down because lactate accumulation is uncomfortable, and it also burns up your glycogen stores faster than your gut can refill them. Someone in the 180-200lb range who is accustomed to working at lactic threshold can burn 800 kcal/hr in this mode - with over half of that being glycogen (carb) - but only replenish maybe 250 kcal/hr, and eventually that math catches up when the muscles and liver run out of stored glycogen. Won't happen in an hour-long workout at maximum intensity, but a few hours at an intensity factor of 0.9x might do it, and 6-8 hours at lower intensity factors will also be an ass-kicking. If you'd spent your time building more Type I fiber, you'd burn less glycogen for the same output, and thus could generate the same power output for longer.

Going back to your example, taking the extra time required to develop that last 15 lbs of deadlift and putting it instead into low-level aerobic work might be the better choice for a hiker, hunter, cyclist, etc. I don't know how to quantify that additional training time - is it 15 minutes/week, is it an hour a week, is it five hours a week? Is it causing stress and inflammation that will interfere with other training or one's general health? So I don't know what sort of negative effect it would actually have on one's fitness. But there is an effect, and I suspect it's quantifiable for someone who is paying close attention.
What is your thinking with regard to combining circa max work in squats, say something at the 90% level for low reps, followed by anaerobic duration work, say doing sandbag get ups for ten minutes straight. Does the second cancel the improvements from the first, which are likely predominately neurological, or do you think they are complimentary?
 
What is your thinking with regard to combining circa max work in squats, say something at the 90% level for low reps, followed by anaerobic duration work, say doing sandbag get ups for ten minutes straight. Does the second cancel the improvements from the first, which are likely predominately neurological, or do you think they are complimentary?

It's probably complementary, or at least not intrinsically antagonistic. While the energy pathways are different, both types of exercise are going to primarily engage Type II fiber. Just gotta watch out for the proportion of your total workout time that you spend in the upper heart rate zones; doing too much of that anaerobic work may impede recovery, and eventually that will hurt your low-rep work.

Where things get difficult is when someone (<cough> totally not me) wants to improve simultaneously in the max-effort lifts and aerobic capacity. Then you're creating a battle between Type I and Type II development, and forcing multiple metabolic pathways to fight it out, and for most people, one of those is going to dominate. Those few athletes that can successfully develop multiple pathways can look forward to fame and fortune, or at least dominate at their local Crossfit gym. Er, "box".
 
It's probably complementary, or at least not intrinsically antagonistic. While the energy pathways are different, both types of exercise are going to primarily engage Type II fiber. Just gotta watch out for the proportion of your total workout time that you spend in the upper heart rate zones; doing too much of that anaerobic work may impede recovery, and eventually that will hurt your low-rep work.

Where things get difficult is when someone (<cough> totally not me) wants to improve simultaneously in the max-effort lifts and aerobic capacity. Then you're creating a battle between Type I and Type II development, and forcing multiple metabolic pathways to fight it out, and for most people, one of those is going to dominate. Those few athletes that can successfully develop multiple pathways can look forward to fame and fortune, or at least dominate at their local Crossfit gym. Er, "box".
Makes sense. It is hard to avoid the latter problem when you want to be able to get stronger AND actually do things in life. I try to avoid it through going heavier and shorter, say hiking with 70 lbs for an hour rather than 40 for four, but eventually you need to actually put in the hours to be able to go longer distances.