Ok I have a chance to buy NIB Kimber Pro-Carry 2, 4 inch barrel with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips or a NIB Springfield Armory Champion Operator 4 inch barrel for a off duty gun that will be carred in a S.O.B. type holster. NOW I have heard bad things recently about both Kimber's quality and customer service. I have seen Kimbers with surface rust on the barrel from the distributor/factory.I am wanting to stay with a aluminum frame 4 inch 1911 and I am unable to pay for a Wilson Combat or Night Hawk custom ect. So I welcome advice on making a selection between the Kimber and Springfield Armory. Thanks
Suppressors Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
- Thread starter Zebra644
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Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a chance to buy NIB Kimber Pro-Carry 2, 4 inch barrel with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips or a NIB Springfield Armory Champion Operator 4 inch barrel...............<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOW I have heard bad things recently about both Kimber's quality and customer service. I have seen Kimbers with surface rust on the barrel from the distributor/factory.</span></span></div></div> Seems like you just answered your own question.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a chance to buy NIB Kimber Pro-Carry 2, 4 inch barrel with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips or a NIB Springfield Armory Champion Operator 4 inch barrel...............<span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">NOW I have heard bad things recently about both Kimber's quality and customer service. I have seen Kimbers with surface rust on the barrel from the distributor/factory.</span></span></div></div> Seems like you just answered your own question.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Springfield everyday of the week for me. I just like them compared to other's in their quality bracket of 1911's.
Springfield everyday of the week for me. I just like them compared to other's in their quality bracket of 1911's.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I have a few Kimber I and II's and they have been fine guns for me short of poor blueing on the last II I bought...ended up duracoating it. That said I carry a Springfield micro compact. The loadeds,TRP's,operators.....(upper end Springfields)have very good fit and finish IMO.
I have a few Kimber I and II's and they have been fine guns for me short of poor blueing on the last II I bought...ended up duracoating it. That said I carry a Springfield micro compact. The loadeds,TRP's,operators.....(upper end Springfields)have very good fit and finish IMO.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Springfield. Ive called them on several occasions (not because my gun is a POS) but to have them do work at their custom shop. They are very pleasant to deal with and turn around time isn't bad.
Springfield. Ive called them on several occasions (not because my gun is a POS) but to have them do work at their custom shop. They are very pleasant to deal with and turn around time isn't bad.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I would suggest the Springfield, but I would also highly recommend that you avoid a railed compact model. Just get the lightweight champion without the rail if you want a 4" gun.
Seriously consider the Colt XSE and S&W Scandium-framed Commander as well.
I debated a lot but I ended up with the EMP because I wanted a 9mm.
I would suggest the Springfield, but I would also highly recommend that you avoid a railed compact model. Just get the lightweight champion without the rail if you want a 4" gun.
Seriously consider the Colt XSE and S&W Scandium-framed Commander as well.
I debated a lot but I ended up with the EMP because I wanted a 9mm.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
SA hands down. I would look at a 5" model as your chances of reliability greatly increase with a Government model length. Commander length would be the minimum I would really consider unless investing in a higher end hand fitted 1911.
SA hands down. I would look at a 5" model as your chances of reliability greatly increase with a Government model length. Commander length would be the minimum I would really consider unless investing in a higher end hand fitted 1911.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I daily carry a springfield loaded lightweight, its my go to no matter what
I daily carry a springfield loaded lightweight, its my go to no matter what
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I currently carry a S&W 5 inch stainless with a rail now and no problems. I allready owned the 4 inch Scandium and the finish wore off in a matter of weeks, that one I sold to a friend. I am 6'5'' so I can hide a 4 inch 1911 much easier than the one I have now.So has anyone had to deal with Kimber's customer service? I agree with not going shorter than a 4 inch barrel. My agency allows us to carry any type of quality pistol no smaller than a .380 cal. but they mandate the ammo and we use Speer Gold Dot. I have to carry the 230 gr even though I would much prefer the 200 gr + P so no issues with bullet type chipping the frame. And a little tit for tat on quality control. I have seen 2 Kimbers with light surface rust on the barrel and granted that could be from a lack of oil, grade of steel, or how it was stored.That can be easily removed with some good oil and steel wool or a green kitchen grade scrubbing pad. I have also seen a Springfield Armory G.I. Champion have the barrel come apart, literally. The guy came in to the gun store and showed them the barrel. You could pull the back end of the barrel where the feed ramp and chamber area off of the barrel leaving a 4 inch tube. Needless to say he was a little upset seiing how he had just bought it there new I think he said about a week ago. I understand that it could have been what I call a Friday Beer Thirty Gun and have no doubts that Springfield will take care of the gentleman. Thanks for every one giving a reply.
I currently carry a S&W 5 inch stainless with a rail now and no problems. I allready owned the 4 inch Scandium and the finish wore off in a matter of weeks, that one I sold to a friend. I am 6'5'' so I can hide a 4 inch 1911 much easier than the one I have now.So has anyone had to deal with Kimber's customer service? I agree with not going shorter than a 4 inch barrel. My agency allows us to carry any type of quality pistol no smaller than a .380 cal. but they mandate the ammo and we use Speer Gold Dot. I have to carry the 230 gr even though I would much prefer the 200 gr + P so no issues with bullet type chipping the frame. And a little tit for tat on quality control. I have seen 2 Kimbers with light surface rust on the barrel and granted that could be from a lack of oil, grade of steel, or how it was stored.That can be easily removed with some good oil and steel wool or a green kitchen grade scrubbing pad. I have also seen a Springfield Armory G.I. Champion have the barrel come apart, literally. The guy came in to the gun store and showed them the barrel. You could pull the back end of the barrel where the feed ramp and chamber area off of the barrel leaving a 4 inch tube. Needless to say he was a little upset seiing how he had just bought it there new I think he said about a week ago. I understand that it could have been what I call a Friday Beer Thirty Gun and have no doubts that Springfield will take care of the gentleman. Thanks for every one giving a reply.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Many do not recommend the 3" models, but I put Wolff recoil springs in my SA Micro Compact and it is a 100% reliable carry gun now.
Kudos SA for having the balls to still make 1911's the way they were designed.
Many do not recommend the 3" models, but I put Wolff recoil springs in my SA Micro Compact and it is a 100% reliable carry gun now.
Kudos SA for having the balls to still make 1911's the way they were designed.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I recently purchased the SA lightweight Champion. I've got +-500 rounds through it including some hand loads. Not one single malfunction and it's light enough for everyday carry. I have ZERO experience with Kimber 1911s, but like you, I've read a lot of other peoples post about issues.
Good luck with you choice.
I recently purchased the SA lightweight Champion. I've got +-500 rounds through it including some hand loads. Not one single malfunction and it's light enough for everyday carry. I have ZERO experience with Kimber 1911s, but like you, I've read a lot of other peoples post about issues.
Good luck with you choice.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Like the rest I'd pick the Champion over the Kimber. That said, i carry a Pro Carry 2 even though I own 3 Champions as the Kimber is more accurate and smooth as glass. There have also been a lot of reports of oil getting in the electronics in the Crimson Carrys which is a little odd considering how long CG has been around.
Another thing. You really need the rail if you are carrying SOB? Seems like with the non-railed model, you will probably have less of an issue finding an SOB holster.
Like the rest I'd pick the Champion over the Kimber. That said, i carry a Pro Carry 2 even though I own 3 Champions as the Kimber is more accurate and smooth as glass. There have also been a lot of reports of oil getting in the electronics in the Crimson Carrys which is a little odd considering how long CG has been around.
Another thing. You really need the rail if you are carrying SOB? Seems like with the non-railed model, you will probably have less of an issue finding an SOB holster.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
My SA micro compact has a rail and it so unobtrusive I don't notice it unless I need it. I carry it in the same holsters that I use for any of my officer/commander size 1911's with no issues. Why not go with the rail, it doesn't get in the way? I take my pistol off at night, snap on a TLR3 and put it on the nightstand.
My SA micro compact has a rail and it so unobtrusive I don't notice it unless I need it. I carry it in the same holsters that I use for any of my officer/commander size 1911's with no issues. Why not go with the rail, it doesn't get in the way? I take my pistol off at night, snap on a TLR3 and put it on the nightstand.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I carry the kimber ultra carry II with the 3" barrel. I have had some problems with the surface rust but figured it was my fat ass sweating all summer long in the leather horse hide holster. (Cross Breed to whitch is the one i like the most).
I can keep all 7 rounds in the nine ring with it from the 25 yard line. I thought that was pretty good for a 3" barrel. I have owned several SA guns as well and like them as well. I also carry my Sig 220 with no prob for concealment. I think either way you will do good.
I carry the kimber ultra carry II with the 3" barrel. I have had some problems with the surface rust but figured it was my fat ass sweating all summer long in the leather horse hide holster. (Cross Breed to whitch is the one i like the most).
I can keep all 7 rounds in the nine ring with it from the 25 yard line. I thought that was pretty good for a 3" barrel. I have owned several SA guns as well and like them as well. I also carry my Sig 220 with no prob for concealment. I think either way you will do good.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Springfield for sure.
Springfield for sure.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I have both and carry & shoot both each does well both are high grade 1911,s can not really go wrong with both makes IMHO
I have both and carry & shoot both each does well both are high grade 1911,s can not really go wrong with both makes IMHO
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry.
Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
i went through this a few months ago...comparing the kimbers to the springfields. i finally decided on a springfield loaded. Customer service is much much better with springfield, and personally, i feel the quality of kimbers has fallen in the past few years as their production got too high. springfield on the other hand seems to be on the up swing, producing some very nice products. I also have their XDM which i absolutely love.
i went through this a few months ago...comparing the kimbers to the springfields. i finally decided on a springfield loaded. Customer service is much much better with springfield, and personally, i feel the quality of kimbers has fallen in the past few years as their production got too high. springfield on the other hand seems to be on the up swing, producing some very nice products. I also have their XDM which i absolutely love.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame).
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times.........
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times.........
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them. </div></div>
I've got to disagree.
Having worked for a Kimber and SA dealer, they were without question the most problematic models either company makes...they just don't run.
I've seen a $3k Nighthawk T3 refuse to run properly.
Multiple Colt Defenders refuse to run. One of which went to EGW twice, then Cylinder and Slide, which would NOT run 100% without sending brass into the face of the shooter.
I didn't even bother keeping count of the production micro 1911's that didn't run, because I never saw a single one that I would have trusted to carry. This was while I was working as a range officer at a store which sold hundreds of Kimbers and Springfields.
The slide speed timing is toooo fast. Trying to keep your magazine springs and recoil springs in perfect harmony for more than 500 rounds at a time is an exercise in patience, and often futility.
Here is a more detailed explanation of the dilemma:
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=54403
When these guns pass across the benches of some of the most skilled 1911 'smiths and they still don't run, I think that says something. Not to mention LAV's exact words.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame). </div></div>
The HK45c is a reliable gun out of the box, a micro 1911 isn't. It's smaller than a fullsize 1911, and I have no problem concealing a pistol of that size.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them. </div></div>
I've got to disagree.
Having worked for a Kimber and SA dealer, they were without question the most problematic models either company makes...they just don't run.
I've seen a $3k Nighthawk T3 refuse to run properly.
Multiple Colt Defenders refuse to run. One of which went to EGW twice, then Cylinder and Slide, which would NOT run 100% without sending brass into the face of the shooter.
I didn't even bother keeping count of the production micro 1911's that didn't run, because I never saw a single one that I would have trusted to carry. This was while I was working as a range officer at a store which sold hundreds of Kimbers and Springfields.
The slide speed timing is toooo fast. Trying to keep your magazine springs and recoil springs in perfect harmony for more than 500 rounds at a time is an exercise in patience, and often futility.
Here is a more detailed explanation of the dilemma:
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=54403
When these guns pass across the benches of some of the most skilled 1911 'smiths and they still don't run, I think that says something. Not to mention LAV's exact words.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame). </div></div>
The HK45c is a reliable gun out of the box, a micro 1911 isn't. It's smaller than a fullsize 1911, and I have no problem concealing a pistol of that size.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW. </div></div>
Having not met him at length or trained with him in person I failed to recognize him. I'm used to folks linking to their own material, so I assumed one of them was you. But your regard for him is very telling as to why you tout the HK45 platform.
If you watch him turn at the 50 and 75 yard line he definitely sweeps his buddy's legs (higher at 75) and lases his feet at 25. And no, I'm not on first name basis with Kyle L either...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW. </div></div>
Having not met him at length or trained with him in person I failed to recognize him. I'm used to folks linking to their own material, so I assumed one of them was you. But your regard for him is very telling as to why you tout the HK45 platform.
If you watch him turn at the 50 and 75 yard line he definitely sweeps his buddy's legs (higher at 75) and lases his feet at 25. And no, I'm not on first name basis with Kyle L either...
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW. </div></div>
Having not met him at length or trained with him in person I failed to recognize him. I'm used to folks linking to their own material, so I assumed one of them was you. But your regard for him is very telling as to why you tout the HK45 platform.
If you watch him turn at the 50 and 75 yard line he definitely sweeps his buddy's legs (higher at 75) and lases his feet at 25. And no, I'm not on first name basis with Kyle L either... </div></div>
That's Kyle Defoor, not Kyle Lamb.
Larry is a big fan of low ready, and uses what he terms a "1 meter bubble". Meaning your muzzle shouldn't point outside of the bubble while in your low ready. I understand what you're referencing, but I believe it stayed within that bubble.
Larry is one of the most experienced CQB trainers teaching today, I seriously doubt he went around muzzling his co-host on a flat range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1155316168?bctid=33510888001
</div></div>
And please tell me that you aren't the bigger guy in the video that sweeps the smaller guy with the muzzle of a hot weapon at least three times......... </div></div>
Are you telling me you don't know who Larry Vickers is?
http://vickerstactical.com/
And Kyle doesn't get swept once, BTW. </div></div>
Having not met him at length or trained with him in person I failed to recognize him. I'm used to folks linking to their own material, so I assumed one of them was you. But your regard for him is very telling as to why you tout the HK45 platform.
If you watch him turn at the 50 and 75 yard line he definitely sweeps his buddy's legs (higher at 75) and lases his feet at 25. And no, I'm not on first name basis with Kyle L either... </div></div>
That's Kyle Defoor, not Kyle Lamb.
Larry is a big fan of low ready, and uses what he terms a "1 meter bubble". Meaning your muzzle shouldn't point outside of the bubble while in your low ready. I understand what you're referencing, but I believe it stayed within that bubble.
Larry is one of the most experienced CQB trainers teaching today, I seriously doubt he went around muzzling his co-host on a flat range.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Oh yeah, Kyle is with Viking not Vickers, my bad.
Whoever it is he gets swept....no matter what Mr V teaches.
I should know better than to disagree with a guy that has his own forum by now, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the pistol platform.
I stand by my SA over Kimber regardless and apologize for my active part in the digression of the thread.
Oh yeah, Kyle is with Viking not Vickers, my bad.
Whoever it is he gets swept....no matter what Mr V teaches.
I should know better than to disagree with a guy that has his own forum by now, but we'll have to agree to disagree on the pistol platform.
I stand by my SA over Kimber regardless and apologize for my active part in the digression of the thread.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I carry a Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator everyday in my plainclothes assignment. Love it to death! It's never malfunctioned on me yet, and is a joy to shoot. Not putting down the Kimber, just saying that the Springfield is good to go!
Donnie
I carry a Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator everyday in my plainclothes assignment. Love it to death! It's never malfunctioned on me yet, and is a joy to shoot. Not putting down the Kimber, just saying that the Springfield is good to go!
Donnie
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
No I am not the gentleman in the video. The type of S.O.B. holster I will be using works fine with a railed 1911 The Champion Modle I am looking at is the Operator. The Kimber is gonna cost me around $890.00 and the S/A around $750.00 and obviously being an Operator on a Aluminum frame it has all the bells and whistles including a ambi-thumb safety which makes qualifing with it at the range easier. With the Kimber it feels nice as does the S/A/ and the only thing it really has going for it is the Crimson Trace grips. I think I am kinda talking my self into the S/A. This will be a off duty weapon only and the laser grips on the Kimber may be more tacticool then tactical.
No I am not the gentleman in the video. The type of S.O.B. holster I will be using works fine with a railed 1911 The Champion Modle I am looking at is the Operator. The Kimber is gonna cost me around $890.00 and the S/A around $750.00 and obviously being an Operator on a Aluminum frame it has all the bells and whistles including a ambi-thumb safety which makes qualifing with it at the range easier. With the Kimber it feels nice as does the S/A/ and the only thing it really has going for it is the Crimson Trace grips. I think I am kinda talking my self into the S/A. This will be a off duty weapon only and the laser grips on the Kimber may be more tacticool then tactical.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I dont own a kimber, but own several SAI products, TRP, M1A, and have a micro out for delivery today. I have nothing but good to say about springfields and the company itself. Very nice folks and easy to work with.
Dave
I dont own a kimber, but own several SAI products, TRP, M1A, and have a micro out for delivery today. I have nothing but good to say about springfields and the company itself. Very nice folks and easy to work with.
Dave
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I have never owned a SA "micro" but have shot one on several occasions, it was problematic, I could not tel you the reason as it was not my gun and didn't really have time to investigate. It was new if there is a break in period....
I have shot, owned and carried two Kimber Ultra's, a Super carry, which I had to do a slight bit of work on the slide lock and an Ultra CDP II which shot flawlessly right out of the box. These 3" guns are accurate and reliable. I would say limp wristing can be an issues (as with almost any auto) but look forward to shooting an Ultra Aegis II in 9mm.
I think both are well made, despite the drama about Kimbers and MIM parts, I almost always "adjust" every gun I carry be it some finsihing, lapping, sights, whatever.
Find one you like, shoot the piss out of it an fix it like you want it.
I have never owned a SA "micro" but have shot one on several occasions, it was problematic, I could not tel you the reason as it was not my gun and didn't really have time to investigate. It was new if there is a break in period....
I have shot, owned and carried two Kimber Ultra's, a Super carry, which I had to do a slight bit of work on the slide lock and an Ultra CDP II which shot flawlessly right out of the box. These 3" guns are accurate and reliable. I would say limp wristing can be an issues (as with almost any auto) but look forward to shooting an Ultra Aegis II in 9mm.
I think both are well made, despite the drama about Kimbers and MIM parts, I almost always "adjust" every gun I carry be it some finsihing, lapping, sights, whatever.
Find one you like, shoot the piss out of it an fix it like you want it.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Shot the my new SAI micro .45 yesterday. Really impressed with accuracy. Functioned flawlessly, but only 100 rds through it.
Dave
Shot the my new SAI micro .45 yesterday. Really impressed with accuracy. Functioned flawlessly, but only 100 rds through it.
Dave
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I don't own any SA 1911 pistols but I have a few Kimbers. I do know from hanging around with SA owners that they are very loyal to their pistols. Either way they are both great pistols. If it runs.......run it! Just make sure it runs!
I don't own any SA 1911 pistols but I have a few Kimbers. I do know from hanging around with SA owners that they are very loyal to their pistols. Either way they are both great pistols. If it runs.......run it! Just make sure it runs!
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Ive never fired the Pro Carry but have had several Kimbers and Springfields. With that being said, try to shoot both and see how they feel in your hands. I have a 4" Kimber Compact CDP that I love and carry off duty most of the time. On duty, I currently carry a Kimber Warrior. As far as Springfield's, I carried a LW Operator and a 10-8 Operator on duty. Both were awesome and the reason I am carrying the Warrior now is because I wanted an all steel (the LW was alloy) and the 10-8 is my safe queen and I wanted to get that back in there...
I have shot a co-workers Champion and was impressed with it very much...Good Luck!!
Ive never fired the Pro Carry but have had several Kimbers and Springfields. With that being said, try to shoot both and see how they feel in your hands. I have a 4" Kimber Compact CDP that I love and carry off duty most of the time. On duty, I currently carry a Kimber Warrior. As far as Springfield's, I carried a LW Operator and a 10-8 Operator on duty. Both were awesome and the reason I am carrying the Warrior now is because I wanted an all steel (the LW was alloy) and the 10-8 is my safe queen and I wanted to get that back in there...
I have shot a co-workers Champion and was impressed with it very much...Good Luck!!
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcoop8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own any SA 1911 pistols but I have a few Kimbers. I do know from hanging around with SA owners that they are very loyal to their pistols. Either way they are both great pistols. If it runs.......run it! Just make sure it runs! </div></div>
Well said!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mcoop8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't own any SA 1911 pistols but I have a few Kimbers. I do know from hanging around with SA owners that they are very loyal to their pistols. Either way they are both great pistols. If it runs.......run it! Just make sure it runs! </div></div>
Well said!
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I own a bunch of both brand.s Both can make a good pistol but both typically ship with crap internials inside.
BBLs on the Kimber tend to be better while slides on Springfields tend to be better.
Overall I like the Kimbers better but I replace, hammer, sear, disconnector, extractors and firing pins in both brands with hard use tool steal parts.
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
I hate railed weapons for anything other than entry work
I own a bunch of both brand.s Both can make a good pistol but both typically ship with crap internials inside.
BBLs on the Kimber tend to be better while slides on Springfields tend to be better.
Overall I like the Kimbers better but I replace, hammer, sear, disconnector, extractors and firing pins in both brands with hard use tool steal parts.
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
I hate railed weapons for anything other than entry work
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
</div></div>
I carried a Kimber Raptor Pro for about a year, an all steel blued gun. No issues with rust, although I wiped it down at the end of the day to include removing the grips on some days due to excessive sweating. I have never seen a Kimber rust as mentioned.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
</div></div>
I carried a Kimber Raptor Pro for about a year, an all steel blued gun. No issues with rust, although I wiped it down at the end of the day to include removing the grips on some days due to excessive sweating. I have never seen a Kimber rust as mentioned.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...snip...
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
...snip... </div></div>
The rusting problem is with regard to the barrels that are left in the white. Some people are finding that, all things being equal, the barrels on their Kimber show rust when their other 1911s do not.
I own several of each. I like the basic Kimbers that are under $1K, Custom, TLE's, etc. The Kimber pro carry's are good value guns.
But Springfield will unquestioningly look after you better, if you have a problem.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...snip...
I am perplexed about guys having rusting problems from Kimber as most I have run into are SS with a black finish over the top these days.
...snip... </div></div>
The rusting problem is with regard to the barrels that are left in the white. Some people are finding that, all things being equal, the barrels on their Kimber show rust when their other 1911s do not.
I own several of each. I like the basic Kimbers that are under $1K, Custom, TLE's, etc. The Kimber pro carry's are good value guns.
But Springfield will unquestioningly look after you better, if you have a problem.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fpdsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I carry a Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator everyday in my plainclothes assignment. Love it to death! It's never malfunctioned on me yet, and is a joy to shoot. Not putting down the Kimber, just saying that the Springfield is good to go!
Donnie </div></div>
I've got the same model as my go-to pistol. Can't go wrong with SA.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fpdsniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I carry a Springfield Lightweight Champion Operator everyday in my plainclothes assignment. Love it to death! It's never malfunctioned on me yet, and is a joy to shoot. Not putting down the Kimber, just saying that the Springfield is good to go!
Donnie </div></div>
I've got the same model as my go-to pistol. Can't go wrong with SA.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I dont care for Kimber's quality. I think your money is better spent on the Springfield Armory.
I dont care for Kimber's quality. I think your money is better spent on the Springfield Armory.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I just bought the Kimber Super Carry Series and these are great guns.
No Gen II problems and no schwartz safety. The triggers are really great.
Give one a try.
I just bought the Kimber Super Carry Series and these are great guns.
No Gen II problems and no schwartz safety. The triggers are really great.
Give one a try.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Another vote for SA, I have the lightweight champion operator and absolutely love it. No experience with the Kimber...
Another vote for SA, I have the lightweight champion operator and absolutely love it. No experience with the Kimber...
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I would say series 1 Kimber, I have had no problem out of my Desert Warrior, and I like it better than my friends Springer that is real close to the same model. But I do have a Springfield also, and it is a nice gun.
I would say series 1 Kimber, I have had no problem out of my Desert Warrior, and I like it better than my friends Springer that is real close to the same model. But I do have a Springfield also, and it is a nice gun.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I own a SA loaded and it is a fine gun. I have a Kimber with 3" barrel and if runs great for me. I like the feel of it in my hand. It has never given me any problem and I have shot a couple thousand rounds with it. The Kimber is the one i carry. Rust has never been an issue since it is stainless.
I own a SA loaded and it is a fine gun. I have a Kimber with 3" barrel and if runs great for me. I like the feel of it in my hand. It has never given me any problem and I have shot a couple thousand rounds with it. The Kimber is the one i carry. Rust has never been an issue since it is stainless.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
My slide to frame fit was getting a little sloppy after a few thousands rounds in my Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. SA paid shipping both ways to fixed it, with absolutely no charge to me. The whole process took about 2 weeks and it feels new again. My vote is for SA for customer service alone.
-A good friends Kimber Target II is stainless and he has had rust on the slide, barrel, under the grips and in the mag well. It wasnt a little either... His pistol was $600 more than my basic mil-spec, but I have never had rust on mine.
My slide to frame fit was getting a little sloppy after a few thousands rounds in my Springfield Armory Mil-Spec. SA paid shipping both ways to fixed it, with absolutely no charge to me. The whole process took about 2 weeks and it feels new again. My vote is for SA for customer service alone.
-A good friends Kimber Target II is stainless and he has had rust on the slide, barrel, under the grips and in the mag well. It wasnt a little either... His pistol was $600 more than my basic mil-spec, but I have never had rust on mine.
H
harleymann02
Guest
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame). </div></div>
I have to agree with you on the HK compact although mine is in .40 S&W I think the size is the same and while its a great gun, accurate and reliable as hell it weighs a ton for a compact great gun but too heavy and fat for concealed carry my full size Glock 21 weighs less than the HK with full mags.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Neither. Aluminum framed short 1911's are super temperamental, I would strongly urge you to consider a more modern design for a compact pistol.</div></div>
I think the first time I met member DesertHK was at the range when I was testing my 1911's for function. My 3" Micro can be shot weak hand held just tight enough to not drop it...........upside down and run fine.
"Short 1911's are tempermental" is the mantra of those that make poor examples of them.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The HK45c would be an excellent choice if you want a smaller .45ACP for carry. </div></div>
You are kidding right? The HK45c is smaller compared to what?
Its a large pistol that does not conceal anywhere near as easily as an Officer's or Compact 1911 and doesn't even offer much in the way of capacity for the size trade off (and yes I had one......"had" being the operative word in that sentence).
To the OP, you may want to look around for a Springfield Compact. They were discontinued, but are the perfect size 1911 for carry in my opinion (commander slide on an officer's frame). </div></div>
I have to agree with you on the HK compact although mine is in .40 S&W I think the size is the same and while its a great gun, accurate and reliable as hell it weighs a ton for a compact great gun but too heavy and fat for concealed carry my full size Glock 21 weighs less than the HK with full mags.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
I bought the Springfield Armory. It just felt better in my hands. I do appreciate the advise from y'all on helping me to decide. The Champion Operator got sold on me so I picked up the 2 tone O.D. Green and Black Loaded Champion. I am going to replace the guide rod with a EGW and a little stiffer spring so the aluminum frame does not take as much of a beating.
I bought the Springfield Armory. It just felt better in my hands. I do appreciate the advise from y'all on helping me to decide. The Champion Operator got sold on me so I picked up the 2 tone O.D. Green and Black Loaded Champion. I am going to replace the guide rod with a EGW and a little stiffer spring so the aluminum frame does not take as much of a beating.
Re: Kimber VS. Springfield Armory for off duty carry
Nice choice! And in the rare case you got a lemon SA will stand behind it.
Now a good holster and carry it in good health.
Nice choice! And in the rare case you got a lemon SA will stand behind it.
Now a good holster and carry it in good health.
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