Knights Armament

MontanaMan

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Mod 1s are getting harder to find-so if that's what you want it doesn't seem like too bad of a price.

Here's a new Mod 2 MLOK from Kelly Enterprises for roughly same price:

Day in, day out Kelley's is hard to beat on their pricing................you might luck out & find one here or there for less, but not often & he usually has almost all they make available. He's tied in pretty good with KAC & can have rifles drop shipped direct from KAC if needed.

MM
 
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JeffLebowski

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I own the 5.56 and 7.62 kac cans. An AR home build with agb and omega can will outperform kac cans on sr-15 in noise, gas to the face, and lightness.
And KAC aren’t exactly known for literally disassembling themselves because the outer sleeve is glued on like the Omega. Different design goals, the KAC cans are issued and proven, the Omega can’t compare in that department.
 
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sleeplz

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I actually had that happen to me. You just glue it back on and keep shooting. I'm very utilitarian and as long as it works I can care less. But I can understand if that bothers you. At the end of the day, The omega is quieter and lighter so I barely use the KAC cans.
 

JeffLebowski

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I actually had that happen to me. You just glue it back on and keep shooting. I'm very utilitarian and as long as it works I can care less. But I can understand if that bothers you. At the end of the day, The omega is quieter and lighter so I barely use the KAC cans.
The point is that the KAC van is designed to be military issue and it is issued. The Silencerco can is nowhere close to duty ready.
 
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sleeplz

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Kac can is being phased out. Ive seen the old school nt4 on marines rifles a few years ago in Syria but I'm pretty sure their switching to surefire. Doesnt that tell you something?
 

redneckbmxer24

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KAC’s cans definitely aren’t their strong suit. They are tougher cans than Silencerco and it’s debatable who’s attachment system is the worse of the two, but I wouldn’t ever entertain the thought of buying one after having some hands on time with different once’s over the years.

SF cans aren’t exactly the pinnacle of excellence either. Any can that gets that stuck on after just a few hundred rounds typically, that you have to loosen it and shoot it off, launching it down range (SF’s advice for stuck on can) is not a very good design. I personally don’t think there’s a true QD suppressor mount system on the current l market that is even close to great. From what I’ve seen I think Dead Air is the closest so far but they seem to have plenty of issues too.
 
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JeffLebowski

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Kac can is being phased out. Ive seen the old school nt4 on marines rifles a few years ago in Syria but I'm pretty sure their switching to surefire. Doesnt that tell you something?
It tells me me not very much given that we we’re talking about Omegas versus KAC cans.
 
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RyanScott

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Redneck have you tried the new cans with the ball detent mounting? I’ll put them against anything.
 

sleeplz

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You state kac is military issue but it's starting to be unused by the military. So that would put it at same level as the omega. Both cans not being used by mil. Your argument of kac being military issue means nothing if the military isnt issuing it.
 

The DFC

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Kac can is being phased out. Ive seen the old school nt4 on marines rifles a few years ago in Syria but I'm pretty sure their switching to surefire. Doesnt that tell you something?
It should tell you that the new contract for Surefire was cheaper than KAC's. You can't possibly not know that most Military contracts go to the lowest bidder usually. That's just not possible.
 
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RyanScott

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You state kac is military issue but it's starting to be unused by the military. So that would put it at same level as the omega. Both cans not being used by mil. Your argument of kac being military issue means nothing if the military isnt issuing it.
Lots of things are military issue. For many reasons only some of which relate to the needs of an individual.
 

sleeplz

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It should tell you that the new contract for Surefire was cheaper than KAC's. You can't possibly not know that most Military contracts go to the lowest bidder usually. That's just not possible.
So your agreeing that mil spec is useless? Whether it's used by military or not, it doesnt prove durability or anything useful. I'm glad you finally agree to the point I've been trying to make. Mil spec or contracts mean nothing

All that matters is which product performs better and has a manufacturer that backs the end user. If sr15s were marginally better, they would be winning matches throughout all disciplines. But they dont even scratch the surface with success in competition.
 
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SkyScrapin

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Should have a 11.5" KAC with QDC in hand in the next month, maybe two. Have several home built ARs that flat out work, but there's something to be said about the reliability of a system, meant to work as a system. Probably the single biggest factor that's often overlooked...
 

RyanScott

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Competition? You mean like PRS or 3-gun? Let’s have a competition. We each fire 6,000 rounds with two or fewer stoppages.
 

skatz11

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I’ve been using a mod2 SR15 upper/BCM lower as my 3gun rifle for the last four or five years. It’s reliable and soft shooting. Accurate enough for what I’m doing. I recently upgraded the lower to an LMT MARS-L so now I’m full ambi and I think they LMT bolt catch/ release it better than the SR15 IWS lower.
 

kthomas

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So your agreeing that mil spec is useless? Whether it's used by military or not, it doesnt prove durability or anything useful. I'm glad you finally agree to the point I've been trying to make. Mil spec or contracts mean nothing

All that matters is which product performs better and has a manufacturer that backs the end user. If sr15s were marginally better, they would be winning matches throughout all disciplines. But they dont even scratch the surface with success in competition.
I agree with your first point - for the most part, military contracts are not the best yard stick for comparing gear.

I don't agree with the second point. AI's aren't too common nationally in PRS/NRL comps, and thus wins are few and far between. On the other hand, lots of matches are won with Curtis Customs. I think we can all agree that AI's are quality and robust rifles, and I don't think you would get the same consensus for the Curtis.

Lots of parallels between both systems, both designed for hard abusive use in adverse conditions, so I think it's a fair comparison. What makes a rifle excel in these conditions doesn't necessarily mean they are the best for competition use. While I see the value and quality in the AI system, I don't use one as my competition rifle, as it's lacking features that I want.

I get it if KAC is not the rifle for you, and that you prefer other ar15's. I'm the same way with bolt guns, I think AI's are great but I have a custom bolt gun with parts I spec'ed myself to make it the way I want. But that doesn't mean the AI isn't a great rifle at what it's designed for. And likewise, whether you like KAC or not, there is a lot of great features in their rifles, built to high quality, and if you tally up everything you get for the KAC price (or AI for that matter), you are getting good value even if it's more expensive then the alternatives.
 

JeffLebowski

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You state kac is military issue but it's starting to be unused by the military. So that would put it at same level as the omega. Both cans not being used by mil. Your argument of kac being military issue means nothing if the military isnt issuing it.
Do you think the Omega with its issues would have made it through the same testing? Binary answer, yes or no.
 

sleeplz

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Do you think the Omega with its issues would have made it through the same testing? Binary answer, yes or no.
Do you agree that your comparison for mil issue is useless if both cans aren't being used by mil? Binary answer, yes or no.
 

sleeplz

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Competition? You mean like PRS or 3-gun? Let’s have a competition. We each fire 6,000 rounds with two or fewer stoppages.
3 gun, CMP matches, any m16 discipline really. There's never 1 guy with an sr-15 that proves that it's the most reliable or accurate. And Pat rogers with his filthy 14 on a BCM is waiting on your 6k rounds stoppage test. Begin when you're ready.
 

RyanScott

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The test I’m describing doesn’t apply to a sample size of 1. It’s the standard for batch testing of M4s. And lots of guns can’t pass.
 

sleeplz

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The test I’m describing doesn’t apply to a sample size of 1. It’s the standard for batch testing of M4s. And lots of guns can’t pass.
You and I firing 6k rounds with different rifles would be a sample size of 1... Why would you ask for a test that you agree is flawed from the beginning?
 

sleeplz

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Several guns with 6k rounds stretched between them? What's the point of testing durability? Let's say you bring 6 guns, 1k per gun is nothing.
 

JeffLebowski

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3 gun, CMP matches, any m16 discipline really. There's never 1 guy with an sr-15 that proves that it's the most reliable or accurate. And Pat rogers with his filthy 14 on a BCM is waiting on your 6k rounds stoppage test. Begin when you're ready.
I knew Pat quite well, I was at his funeral and wake.
 

sleeplz

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RyanScott

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Battlefield Vegas has an M240 that chokes. Fuck that. How was that even possible. The MP7 was nice.
 

JeffLebowski

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3 gun, CMP matches, any m16 discipline really. There's never 1 guy with an sr-15 that proves that it's the most reliable or accurate. And Pat rogers with his filthy 14 on a BCM is waiting on your 6k rounds stoppage test. Begin when you're ready.
Did you know Pat?
 

Jsp556

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So your agreeing that mil spec is useless? Whether it's used by military or not, it doesnt prove durability or anything useful. I'm glad you finally agree to the point I've been trying to make. Mil spec or contracts mean nothing.
Doesn’t mil-spec mean that it meets or exceeds the minimum standard based on set performance requirements?

The contract is awarded to the lowest bidder that can meet the requirements placed on the manufacturer to produce the product that meets said standard?

People shit on Colt, FN, KAC, LMT, & HK then post questions asking how to get their home builds to run. The semi auto forum would be dead if not for the home builds trying to get smooth recoil impulses and iron out reliability issues.
 
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The DFC

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So your agreeing that mil spec is useless? Whether it's used by military or not, it doesnt prove durability or anything useful. I'm glad you finally agree to the point I've been trying to make. Mil spec or contracts mean nothing

All that matters is which product performs better and has a manufacturer that backs the end user. If sr15s were marginally better, they would be winning matches throughout all disciplines. But they dont even scratch the surface with success in competition.
No-I don't agree with any of the points you keep trying to make repeatedly.

Military contracts still have to meet certain requirements and go through layers upon layers of trials. At the end of that road-once the item passes and meets specs-usually the lower cost one is chosen. Not simply the cheapest item is chosen at the beginning :rolleyes:

Mil-Spec is a set of standards developed so as to try and be grunt proof. They also serve so that manufacturers can use the specs in order to manufacture components. In the case of a field rifle-durability and reliability are very important. In real reality-Mil-Spec is very important.

Mil-Spec rifle makers-KAC, LMT, Colt, FN, HK etc don't care about 3-gun etc. They care about getting military contracts because that's where a lot of money and cash flow is at. That's why they focus their research and development on reliability, durability, accuracy etc.
 
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The DFC

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Doesn’t mil-spec mean that it meets or exceeds the minimum standard based on set performance requirements?

The contract is awarded to the lowest bidder that can meet the requirements placed on the manufacturer to produce the product that meets said standard?

People shit on Colt, FN, KAC, LMT, & HK then post questions asking how to get their home builds to run. The semi auto forum would be dead if not for the home builds trying to get smooth recoil impulses and iron out reliability issues.
Normally I read all posts in a thread before posting (which irks me when others do it :D )-this is a good one and pretty much what I stated in a later post although mine was much wordier :)

edit: It's funny-we even have the exact same Mil-Spec manufacturers listed :ROFLMAO:
 
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RyanScott

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A P-38 can opener is milspec. So is a Trident missile and it’s package. It’s all about how it’s written.
 

Mj30wilson900

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I've heard of some KAC rifles that weren't shooters (never seen one), but everyone puts out some duds. I've had no less than a dozen KAC rifles and they were all shooters. Only a couple SR25's but they were both 3/4moa or better rifles with FGMM. I've had numerous SR15's, one MOD 1 I had with the regular 16" CL barrel would routinely shoot in the .3's with cheap federal american eagle 50gr varmint ammo that cost like $.30/rd.

LPR's come with Krieger cut rifled hand lapped barrels which are among the best barrels that money can buy. I had two LP Mod 1's and they were both 1/2moa guns. One started shooting like shit around the 500 rounds mark and it went back to KAC and that's when I learned that they had gotten a bad batch of barrels from Krieger, there were several other accounts of people having the same thing happen around the same time. KAC replaced the barrel and the new barrel shot 1/2moa again.

Most of the KAC accuracy complaints stem around their can that mounts back on the barrel. It's a shit design and unless you get a batch of rifles and cans and swap them around to see which one works best on which rifle then chances are you're going to have less than stellar results.
Any chance they told you the serial numbers of the bad batch of kreiger barrels?
 

Count VonFuhrman

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Several KAC SR-15 LPR Model 1's (used/new) on Gunbroker the last couple months selling between $2000 and this one at $3495. More will show up.
 

Mj30wilson900

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The one that sold for $3495 was new in box but I think it was still a $3000 rifle before election inflation.
 

MontanaMan

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Whats a good price on the new uppers? 14.5 or 16" cc?
$1,599 at Kelley's for a 14.5"...............great to deal with & day in, day out the best prices on KAC anywhere. He's snug with the factory & they drop ship for him to you if necessary.

14.5" KAC Upper

No 16" uppers right now, might be able to order you one, but you can get the complete rifle for $2,200.

Sorry............I saw your 2nd post saying SR-25. He has a 16" for $3150.

MM