Range Report  Lapua's New 136gr 6.5 Scenar

dieselgeek

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Milo, can you give me your speeds and come ups? ( and scope height)

Sorry, I really want to get some good numbers on this bullet!
 
M

milo 2.0

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Matt and Geek I'm curious as to what you guys think also. In my Bud Light soaked brain, I'd think the closer one got to 3000 fps or over the higher bc you can run. I'm starting out slow.
 

popeye089

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Here was my load I was using in 136 Scenar L

Lapua 260 Brass
41.1gr N550
Federal 210 primers
.02 off lands

muzzle velocity was taken using a CED with 30 rounds fired for a better average (my opinion) sorry I cannot remember the ES
fps 2835
sd 10

Rifle
APA built Rem 700 w/ 22" Bartlein 1/8.5 twist Surefire MB 7.62
KRG Whiskey 3 Chassis Gen 3 w/ Atlas bipod
Scope- Leupold 6.5-20X50 ERT scope height 2"
Used APA rings on a Seekins base


-Brass trimmed in Giraud Trimmer
-Primer pockets uniformed and deburred
-Primers seated using Sinclair Primer Tool
-all powders measured on a Redding Beam scale and trickled by hand
-Loaded using LE Wilson Stainless Hand dies in a Harrell's press after necks have been Dry lubed with Imperial dry lube

All data was fired dialing for precision and then usind hold off for elevation confirmation.
Target range used for truing data was 1035. After the BC was trued I fired on targets ranging from 300 meters out to 1100m that day and the holds were all pretty much spot on using the .545 BC I wasn't just going for hits but was going for a good horizontal line (wind being a factor) For my wind calls I used 5 for the bc constant in my wind calls. The targets ranged from 31x18 small IPSC to Accuracy first (Todd Targets) at the further ranges. All ranges were verified using Vectronix PLRF10C

The First 5 pics are using the .600 G1 BC on Atrag on the right in a Recon PDA and Field Firing Solutions on a Pharohs 565 on the right.
The last pic is just the FFS using the .545 which was my actual hold and I was using the FFS while actually frirng.
Disregard the wind in the FFS. I just didn't clear it before doing this. Sorry got on this as soon as I woke up.

As you can see the FFS and Atrag were pretty much in line, granted there are some slight differences but the are miniscule when you really think about the ranges I fire at. I know some people on this sight harp on shooting extreme ranges as the new standard i.e. (somebody said that 1600 meters is the new 1000 I say bs 1000 is still pretty damn good fellas. Yes we have ammo and rifles these days that can get to 1000 pretty good these days, and yes your elevation is going to be your elevation, minus any dramatic enviromental shift/ change. But as a shooter to call wind precisely at that range, and get a first round hit, especially if it is a field with a lot of micro terrain features still takes a lot of talent. So don't get wrapped up in this bullet. Yes it is a great accurate bullet. As stated earlier, "Nothing was wrong with the round just at the time they were commanding more money than the 139 and supply was iffy. I figured why pay more with short supply when my 139 load performed just as good (slightly better than the 136) and supply and price were more reasonable."











 
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M

milo 2.0

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To the guys I pm'd with data, my DA for the day was 5200. Leaving out crucial shit can't help.

We're going to shoot some out of a 6.5 WSM today, at 3150 we'll see if numbers coincide!
 

dworrel

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I bought 139's when this came out because they were cheaper. I just bought the 136's now that they're cheap.

I've shot this to 1350yds with the .600 bc and my elevation numbers were right on.
 

RyeDaddy

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Maybe they're ready to make their orders for next year at a locked in price and want to clear out inventory?

It's deer season, maybe people are buying more hunting bullets and Bergers?

Who knows, I'm not complaining. If they stop making them I'll go back to Amax and VLD's. No biggie.
 

sharac

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Also in Europe stocks are low on 139 and rumors are that prices for 2014 will be +10% (funny thing since copper is down from highs which were the cause for last years price increases)...
 

dieselgeek

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They shoot well. 43.1 g of H4350 and I had a 7.5 mil come up at 1000 yards down at rifles only. I bought 2000 in total.


Also midway runs sales on all kinds of things don't overthink it
 
M

milo 2.0

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They shoot well. 43.1 g of H4350 and I had a 7.5 mil come up at 1000 yards down at rifles only. I bought 2000 in total.


Also midway runs sales on all kinds of things don't overthink it

Geek, what did you come up with for an estimated bc?
 

dieselgeek

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Geek, what did you come up with for an estimated bc?


I just used the .274 G7, but the speed does not match up to chrono speeds. I mean that's pretty common even for my 140 hybrids. I'm running a 2860 fps dope on rounds that chrono 2820 all day long.
 
M

milo 2.0

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I just used the .274 G7, but the speed does not match up to chrono speeds. I mean that's pretty common even for my 140 hybrids. I'm running a 2860 fps dope on rounds that chrono 2820 all day long.

In my world, that means the bc is higher than what you programmed in????
 

sharac

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Did i understand correctly [email protected] and 9.2 with 100yard zero. That would make them in high .200 G7 maybe even .300 depending where you shot them and with what wind...

I wonder if someone at Lapua double checked if radar works correctly :).
 

matt2143

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    I would trust the magneto speed. I have seen three in action, including my own and they run dead on.

    Anxiously waiting on some speeds. Good work Ryan.

    Also I am curious to know how much faster these run versus the 140 hybrids from the same tube.
     
    Last edited:

    dieselgeek

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    So to me it looks like the G7 is right on the damn money.


    Okay, my rifle is a 25 inch 1:8 twist 6.5 Creedmoor. 43.1g of H4350 COAL was 2.775

    Series 1 = 136g Lapua Scenar L 43.1g of H4350 COAL 2.775

    Series 2 = 140g Berger Hybrid 43.1g of H4350 COAL 2.850

    Series 3 = 130g Berger VLD Hunter 44g of H450 COAL 2.830


    Series
    1
    Shots:
    9

    Min
    2922
    Max
    2955

    Avg
    2939
    S-D
    10

    ES
    33








    SeriesShotSpeed

    1
    1
    2939
    ft/sec
    1
    2
    2948
    ft/sec
    1
    3
    2927
    ft/sec
    1
    4
    2941
    ft/sec
    1
    5
    2934
    ft/sec
    1
    6
    2922
    ft/sec
    1
    7
    2946
    ft/sec
    1
    8
    2944
    ft/sec
    1
    9
    2955
    ft/sec

    <tbody>
    </tbody>


    Series
    2
    Shots:
    5

    Min
    2818
    Max
    2852

    Avg
    2842
    S-D
    14

    ES
    34








    SeriesShotSpeed

    2
    1
    2852
    ft/sec
    2
    2
    2850
    ft/sec
    2
    3
    2818
    ft/sec
    2
    4
    2852
    ft/sec
    2
    5
    2842
    ft/sec
    ----------------
    Series
    3
    Shots:
    5

    Min
    2983
    Max
    3008

    Avg
    2996
    S-D
    10

    ES
    25








    SeriesShotSpeed

    3
    1
    3008
    ft/sec
    3
    2
    2990
    ft/sec
    3
    3
    2983
    ft/sec
    3
    4
    2995
    ft/sec
    3
    5
    3004
    ft/sec

    <tbody>
    </tbody>
     
    M

    milo 2.0

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    Also I am curious to know how much faster these run versus the 140 hybrids from the same tube.

    Even though they're 4gr less, they have way more bearing surface, IMHO, no way. The 140 will still rule, in speed and bc.
     

    matt2143

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    I found that interesting also. The bearing surface of the 136 scenar L and hornady 140 amax are almost identical where as the 140 hybrid is almost .100" shorter! I would equate less bearing surface equals less pressure and higher velocities.
     
    M

    milo 2.0

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    A friend ran the same test, his 136's were 100 fps slower than the 140 hybrid. I don't want to argue, but I'd say by seating the 136 that deep in your case you've increased your pressure significantly.
     

    dieselgeek

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    So we have a 200fps difference? I've shot around 3000 hybrids this year. And only 200 136s. Time will tell. I'll run these until I get a bunch of hybrids in stock again. So far they work pretty well out of my gun. I don't see how they can be slower than the heavier hybrids.
     
    M

    milo 2.0

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    I found that interesting also. The bearing surface of the 136 scenar L and hornady 140 amax are almost identical where as the 140 hybrid is almost .100" shorter! I would equate less bearing surface equals less pressure and higher velocities.

    Matt, I respect your posts, as I do geeks, but less pressure really has to mean lower velocity, but put more powder in to make up the drop in pressure and velocity and attain equal pressure, the 140 will rule. His test isn't linear, the only thing straight across the board is his powder charge????
    Think of it this way, you build a new gun, find a load, then decide to moly your bullets, your velocity will drop because of loss of pressure. But, up your powder charge to get back to the same pressure as before, the moly bullet will most likely exceed the non moly in velocity.
     
    Last edited:

    peaceatwar

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    Matt, I respect your posts, as I do geeks, but less pressure really has to mean lower velocity, but put more powder in to make up the drop in pressure and velocity and attain equal pressure, the 140 will rule. His test isn't linear, the only thing straight across the board is his powder charge????
    Think of it this way, you build a new gun, find a load, then decide to moly your bullets, your velocity will drop because of loss of pressure. But, up your powder charge to get back to the same pressure as before, the moly bullet will most likely exceed the non moly in velocity.


    Maybe I'm confused here. Wouldn't an identical charge with moly vs non moly the Moly would produce a higher velocity? I thought the whole premise with Moly was that you could drop your powder charge and achieve a higher velocity. Meaning if you upped your charge your velocity would be that much faster and if your charge stayed the same your velocity would increase.
     

    dieselgeek

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    I think you're supposed to lose FPS with moly bullets because it lowers pressures.


    - decrease pressure by 3-5% depending on cartridge, bullet and powder
    - decrease velocity with 0,5-1,5% - reduce metalfouling
     
    M

    milo 2.0

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    Maybe I'm confused here. Wouldn't an identical charge with moly vs non moly the Moly would produce a higher velocity? I thought the whole premise with Moly was that you could drop your powder charge and achieve a higher velocity. Meaning if you upped your charge your velocity would be that much faster and if your charge stayed the same your velocity would increase.

    In a remote case, same charge, moly, increase. But in reality you've reduced friction with moly, so you've dropped pressure, the speed has to go down, and a powder increase is the only way to bring it back to the same pressure levels. And then, with initial pressures the same, the reduced friction will give a velocity increase.

    Peace, have you ever shot a barrel long enough to watch it loose velocity with the same load, it's because friction is wearing. Molying isn't the same, but the principle applies.
     
    Last edited:

    sharac

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    Thats more inline with data (2940 that is) but i'm really curious you don't have any pressure signs you're probably somewhere on the limit i'd say.

    Here in Europe only viable bullets Hornady/Lapua/Nosler/Speer, Bergers are unfortunately so ridiculously priced (.264 around 60-70€ and .30cal 70-85€ per 100 -> multiply by roughly 1.35 to get USD) that silver bullets might be cheaper to shoot :).
     

    dworrel

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    Great data/video.

    2930 seems real fast for a Creedmoor. Brass looks clean? No extractor marks?

    I did get almost that fast with Re-17 and had no pressure signs. I stuck with my 42.5gr H4350 because it just shoots.
     

    dieselgeek

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    Great data/video.

    2930 seems real fast for a Creedmoor. Brass looks clean? No extractor marks?

    I did get almost that fast with Re-17 and had no pressure signs. I stuck with my 42.5gr H4350 because it just shoots.


    None at all, brass looks perfectly fine. Hell even did it w/ new brass.
     

    dieselgeek

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    So it is .545G1/.274G7? Has Litz published any recordings yet?


    Using the .274 G7 on my applied ballistics w/ the choreographed data I had, things line up just right.


    They seem to fly really fast out of my barrel. For me my numbers are verified and good to go!
     

    5RWill

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    Was hoping it broke that .3G7 range but it's a trade off depending on the balance of velocity/BC. Either way it's apparently a great bullet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    sharac

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    Its different design, 136 is especially good in transsonic region (check the drag files from Lapua). Why it was designed that way i think only someone from Lapua can disclose (if they want) mr. Thomas you reading this? :). While high BC matters especially now where there are plenty of good bullets to choose from i think time will tell if Lapua made the right choice and if they have and edge in uniformity over their competition.

    I just bought 139 for my new .260 but i'll definitely test 136 too when i get the chance.
     

    CapDog

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    Just thought I would throw some more data in. I finally got out yesterday with the magneto speedo and ran some of my 136gr loads over it. This is from my 24" 260AI. My avg speed is right at 2950fps. my ES for the 5 rounds was only 3fps 2948 -2951. What surprised me was all the way up from 45 to 46gr of H4350 it shot very accurately. I started to see a hint of pressure at 46 so I backed off to 45.8. The consistency of the bullet is very good and I'll take the slight loss in BC if it gives me that and the fact I am seated to mag length in my stock Rem mag.
     

    FN in MT

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    I just finished up a 6.5x47 Laua with a 28" HART, 1 in 8" twist barrel.

    Fighting 15-25 mph winds I tried to get some data and barrel break in yesterday.

    136 Lapua with 38.0 to 39.5 of H-4350, CCI450, Lapua cases. Buullet seated -.020" from the lands, then .010" off......Despite the Oehler 35 screens blowing over a few times...

    38.0 gave me 2685 fps
    39.0= 2780 fps
    39.5= 2820 fps

    These were the first shots fired out of this and we were cleaning between 4 shot groups, lousy wind, etc. But all of my groups were .6" or so. NOT stellar.

    Anyone shooting these in a 6.5x47 Lapaua? Any experience on the 136's in this cartridge would be appreciated.

    FN in MT
     

    oinco

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    I tried them in my 6.5x47 with 37.5gr Varget/ 450's...they were a few fps faster than the 130gr VLD's at the same charge, netting me about 2930fps out of a 24" Kreiger. Accuracy was ok, tried three seating depths one charge, quit playing as everything else worked exponentially better. I am sure there is the magic combo for this barrel somewhere, but I am not impressed enough to worry about finding it. Wanted them to work as they can be had for pretty cheap.
     

    black max

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    136grscenar004.jpg

    200yards002.jpg


    So far, so good.

    With a BTO of 2.130", the COAL is 2.800".

    More testing at distance to follow.....I only have one box.

    lapua004.jpg


    139gr scenar on the left and 136gr on the right. Sexy new ogive.

    lapua005.jpg


    Lapua "L" on the new design.
    Almost looks like one of bergers vld's
     

    dieselgeek

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    Numbers keep working for me.

    Shot it out to 1,300 yards this weekend. 2 hits in a row. Then 5 hits in a row at 1173 yards.

    uhCecCT.jpg

    e4ZvZha.jpg
     

    BGE541

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    Looking good. How consistent have they been on weight? Tried the 120L's? Nice Leupold BTW.
     

    Dogtown

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    They're crazy consistent in weight and dimensions. That's one thing that's definitely "as advertised."