Suppressors Law enforcement and civilian cans

[Nostradumbass]

This is just my experience.....

I'm a farmer, and at night I drive my utv from field to field scouting feral hogs, and dispatching them. I'm legal to drive my ride on public roads as long as I have a flag and smv sign....but I do get pulled over from time to time. Three times so far. Once by a trooper, and the last two were sheriff deputies.

I get off my utv with my sr-15 with a suppressor and explain what I'm doing and they look me over, run my drivers license and away I go.

What got me is NONE of them ever asked me about my can. Can't figure out why. I carry a shrunk down copy of the form just in case, but they all looked at the suppressor and never ask about it...... I'm happy they don't ask....but just wonder why they didn't.
Anyone else have the same experience?

Thanks for your time,
Phillip

 

[Graham]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

There's probably no reason for them to suspect that you are doing anything wrong.

I shoot with tactical unit snipers all the time. I've never had anyone so much as ask... Except about how to establish a trust so that they can do the same for themselves.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

One thing to contemplate, everyone is quick to point out when LE oversteps in other aspects of their job. Consider that you have had encounters with Professionals that made an evaluation of the situation, and based on that evaluation determined that there was no reason to pursue the matter.



Good luck

 

[bhart89]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

If I get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop shouldn't be able to pull up my W2 or 1099 tax forms either. It's not relevant to the stop.

 

[Graham]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bhart89</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I get pulled over for a speeding ticket the cop shouldn't be able to pull up my W2 or 1099 tax forms either. It's not relevant to the stop. </div></div>Let's think about that for a minute: Stopping a car for speeding, then searching under the driver's seat and siezing weed, is a search and siezure unrelated to the reason for the stop.

But asking a guy openly carrying a suppressed rifle about his suppressor is in no way a constitutional violation.

 

[farmerted]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

In Texas, suppressors are illegal and the proper ATF paperwork is a defense to prosecution. There's a member on here who is a Texas LEO and has stated that he will get all up in your business if you are at a range and have a suppressor, asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law. OP just hasn't met the right LEO yet to ask for paperwork.

 

[Flying Goose]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law. </div></div>

My understanding is that its not just Texas it's the law everywhere.

 

[wfjames22]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

I've yet to be stopped by a cop when I've had a suppressor with me but I have been checked by a game warden while deer hunting with a suppressor. The only part of our conversation that involved the suppressor was when he complimented it and then he had a few general questions because he was not familiar with them. He never asked for any paperwork though...never came up.

 

[Graham]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FlyingGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law. </div></div>My understanding is that its not just Texas it's the law everywhere. </div></div>Hint: Look at the Texas statute. It's written differently from the ones in many other states.

 

[Zevdogs]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FlyingGoose</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law. </div></div>

My understanding is that its not just Texas it's the law everywhere. </div></div>

Not in Utah they are completely legal and don't require any type of stamp ore back ground check .... They are considerd an accessory just like a grip ore clip

ATF on the other hand is a different matter and all my items have stamps

 

[Screendoor]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zevdogs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not in Utah they are completely legal and don't require any type of stamp or back ground check .... They are considered an accessory just like a grip or clip
</div></div>

I thought that was just for firearms/suppressors <span style="font-weight: bold">made </span>in Utah.

 

[Flying Goose]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Screendoor</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zevdogs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not in Utah they are completely legal and don't require any type of stamp or back ground check .... They are considered an accessory just like a grip or clip
</div></div>

I thought that was just for firearms/suppressors <span style="font-weight: bold">made </span>in Utah. </div></div>

Yeah I thought that if they were made in Utah/Wyoming/FFA state and not sold to anyone out of the state then they were good to go however if that company like Thunder Beast sells outside of the state then they had to fall under ATF. Or am I just uninformed

I don't own a can yet so I'm not fully versed on all laws pertaining to them

 

[Zak Smith]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

You guys might want to check out the supremacy clause. State law unfortunately cannot nullify federal law, and we all have to follow state and federal laws.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In Texas, suppressors are illegal and the proper ATF paperwork is a defense to prosecution. <span style="color: #CC0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">There's a member on here who is a Texas LEO and has stated that he will get all up in your business if you are at a range and have a suppressor, asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law.</span></span> OP just hasn't met the right LEO yet to ask for paperwork. </div></div>

Odd, I was part of that conversation. I don't recall ANYONE ever having said that.
Please show me where this specific statement was issued.

 

[Screendoor]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zak Smith</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys might want to check out the supremacy clause. State law unfortunately cannot nullify federal law, and we all have to follow state and federal laws. </div></div>

Utah passed a law , modeled after one in Montana, that makes it legal to make your own firearm/suppressor as long as it stays in the state. The law is untested, and I think the premise is that if you don't sell the firearm/suppressor outside the state, then the federal government can't use the interstate commerce clause to regulate them.

I don't have any interest in being a test case for the law.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

I often have a suppressor on my gun and never have a problem. Probably because my brother is a deputy, brother in law is reserve deputy, and cousin is highway patrol. Only thing they ask is if I have been out shooting it lately

Small town country life...

 

[athhud]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

Nostradumbass, just count your blessings! Those guys are most likely respectable officers that have a history of positive interactions with the public. Be sure to thank them for not being jackasses. You may want to change the wording a bit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Odd, I was part of that conversation. I don't recall ANYONE ever having said that.
Please show me where this specific statement was issued.</div></div>

As was I. It was most certainly said.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: athhud</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nostradumbass, just count your blessings! Those guys are most likely respectable officers that have a history of positive interactions with the public. Be sure to thank them for not being jackasses. You may want to change the wording a bit

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Odd, I was part of that conversation. I don't recall ANYONE ever having said that.
Please show me where this specific statement was issued.</div></div>

As was I. It was most certainly said.

</div></div>

Once again, show me.
As is usually the case, MUCH of what was said in that thread was taken out of context or intentionally twisted.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

Talking about suppressors, papers and police...

"Update 7:17 p.m. During his six days in the San Bernardino Mountains, multi-murder suspect Christopher Dorner's arsenal of weapons included high-powered assault rifles, high-capacity magazines, handguns, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">10 silencers</span></span>, CS gas, body armor and a military style Kevlar helmet, a sheriff's homicide sergeant said at a news conference Friday."

That cannot be good for anybody with vested interests in suppression.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

Very interesting in that private ownership is illegal there.

Didn't his manifesto say something about suppressors?

 

[bricktop]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Talking about suppressors, papers and police...

"Update 7:17 p.m. During his six days in the San Bernardino Mountains, multi-murder suspect Christopher Dorner's arsenal of weapons included high-powered assault rifles, high-capacity magazines, handguns, <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">10 silencers</span></span>, CS gas, body armor and a military style Kevlar helmet, a sheriff's homicide sergeant said at a news conference Friday."

That cannot be good for anybody with vested interests in suppression. </div></div>

Considering that they are illegal in CA, he must have procured them through LE channels. If anything they will throw this under the rug to avoid an embarrassment and questioning of the "need" of suppressors for LE.

 

[farmerted]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3571920&page=2

3rd post on page 2, specifically Texas, 4th post on page 1 from another LEO in a different state.

 

[leprechaun]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

It's probally because the LEO's know who the good guys and bad guys are.It'susually pretty easy to figure out.PLUS most of us really don't care if you have a can or not as MOST LEO's support the 2nd A

 

[fdkay]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: farmerted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3571920&page=2

<span style="color: #FF0000">3rd post on page 2, specifically Texas</span>, 4th post on page 1 from another LEO in a different state.
</div></div>

Yes, you certainly put words in his mouth.
He did not say that he would check EVERYONES tax stamp as you imply. He was responding to a specific poster insisting that he had no obligation to display his paperwork.
He did not say "he would be all up in your business"

<span style="color: #FF0000">I agree, on the page 1, Sihr DID in fact say he would check papers
</span>
As far as that goes, I was wrong, he did however put it in context

As far as the OP goes, what got the LEO attention was two things, riding a vehicle not normally seen on a roadway and open carry of a suppressed rifle. Merely a check to ensure that he wasn't up to no good.

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

When I go shooting I have a copt of my NFA item paperwork with me. It is easy to do and given the varied interpretatrion of the law it is just the smart thing to do.

That said, I have been at several public ranges and have never been asked for paperwork-and there were several LE shooters there also. Suppressors are not Illegal, Texas recently passed a law that made them legal to hunt with. However they do need to be properly registered-and if they are not-then you have issues.

It is just stupid not to carry a copy of your paperwork-it can save you a lot of trouble.

 

[farmerted]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

"Gawd I wish you were in Texas. I'd love to give you your destiny.

If you are in possession of an NFA item you are required to have your tax stamp with you. Call it a 'tax document' if you like, but it is your proof that your item is legally possessed. If it isnt legally possessed and your dumb enough to bring it to the range, youre going to jail. If it IS legally possessed and your dumb and stubborn enough not to take 10 seconds to prove it then youre going to jail. Its all very simple."

"Its either legally owned or its not. I ask for the paperwork, you pull it out of your pocket, I go away. Jeezuz, whats so hard about that?? No chest thumping or overstepping of authority involved."

"If youre openly displaying a Prohibited Weapon defined by the State of Texas, I DO have the right AND the responsibility to inquire as to its legality."

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: Law enforcement and civilian cans

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: leprechaun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's probally because the LEO's know who the good guys and bad guys are.It'susually pretty easy to figure out.PLUS most of us really don't care if you have a can or not as MOST LEO's support the 2nd A</div></div>

I think I'm just lucky that my great grandad's wagon broke down in such a great spot. We've got a great law enforcement community here in Lamar county.
As a matter of fact, I was pulled over again Last night by one of the Sherrif deputies. He wanted a hog report! Plus a bullshit session ensued. Bout an hour later, I was off again.

From my experience with law officers here, with the exception of one, they all support the 2A and are glad to help out with paper work signatures if needed.

I hope these guys continue to stand With us, as the attack on our 2A freedoms continue.
Phillip

 

[MosesTheTank]

I've never had an encounter with an LEO while in possession of a suppressor, but I have been pulled over while carrying concealed. I produce my permit along with my license. This is on the advice of Massad Ayoob. I haven't yet been asked to produce the gun for inspection. Rather, I was thanked for my courtesy and went on with my business. They have every right to ask for your paper work and just being up front and nonchalant about it is, I think, a good approach. I will produce my tax stamp just the same if the situation arises. I have some very good friends and 2 sisters who are LEOs. They are also gun people who will talk your ear off about firearms if you so engage them. I think any of these encounters is a chance to make an LEO friend, which is a very good thing.

BTW, both of my sisters are on my trust and are now considering getting their own suppressors. Both have ARs but up until recently considered suppressors as something only the sniper teams used. After experiencing trigger time with a silencer they are quite sold on them for "normal" shooting.

 

[Fatherdeath]

I acctualy talked to my father inlaw about this matter since I have a few stamps but have never been asked for them....if at a range and its a production can they dont bat an eye its the form 1 supressors they usualy ask about

 

[Hannibalsnipes]

There's been some back and forth on the issue of being checked for your forms for your suppressor; not just on this post but in my mind as well.
My first reaction, was "good, glad they're not being unnecessarily intrusive", but then I had the thought, "what if one of my suppressors got stolen? The only way I'd ever recover it is if a leo was checking forms". After that thought, I compared it to the few cashiers that actually check your ID when you use a CC, it's a small inconvenience, but I always thank them because their doing so protects me from theft.

And let me say pre-emtively, that I always keep my cans in the safe, and I am obsessive about triple checking that they are secure before I leave the range.

 

[Longshot38]

The Texas penal code 46.5:

"(a)A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possessess, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:
(1)an explosive weapon;
(2)a machine gun;
(3)a short barrel firearm;
(4)a firearm silencer;
......
(c)It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actors possession was apursuant to registration persuant to the National Firearms Act, as amended."

As for proper and expected conduct of LEOs and NFA items it is no different then with any other firearm. We expect them to know and follow the law and treat each and every individual they make contact with in a respectful and professional manner, until said individual gives the officer a reason to do otherwise. And the vast majority of LEOs that I know conduct themselves in just such a manner, but there will always be those exceptions out there.

 

[kraigWY]

No longer in LE, I'm retired after spending 20 years with a city dept.

I was paid by the city to enforce city and state laws. Never asked about anything dealing with suppressors, full-auto, etc, etc. UNLESS you used that arm in committing a state or local law. Then I arrested and charged for that law, if the DA wanted to pursue prosecution of federal cases it was up to him.

But that was me.

 

[mike in pa]

In Texas, suppressors are illegal and the proper ATF paperwork is a defense to prosecution. There's a member on here who is a Texas LEO and has stated that he will get all up in your business if you are at a range and have a suppressor, asking to see your paperwork because that is Texas law. OP just hasn't met the right LEO yet to ask for paperwork.

Same here in PA, NFA is illegal unless NFA registered.

 

[Rlb40x]

I just love how law enforcement picks and chooses what they police,, illegals "oh that's federal we can't enforce that" it must be they feel more comfortable sticking their nose in an Americans business,, a little scared of the ones that aren't supposed to be here.