Gunsmithing laws on accurizing rifles for people.

[boomer81]

i once was a ffl quite some time ago. but what i was wondering what are the limits as far of accurizing guns are for folks. if they bring you the complete rifle and bases rings scopes stocks etc. and devloping a load with reloading supplys they buy and bring to you. just tuning a rifle no building.

 

[308pirate]

There are no laws against any of that

 

[supercorndogs]

It depends on what state you are in. Your states legal definition, of what constitutes transfer of a firearm, and what legal hurdles your state has imposed to restrict, what would be considered a transfer between private individuals.

 

[GH41]

i once was a ffl quite some time ago. but what i was wondering what are the limits as far of accurizing guns are for folks. if they bring you the complete rifle and bases rings scopes stocks etc. and devloping a load with reloading supplys they buy and bring to you. just tuning a rifle no building.

You can do all of the load development you want but you CANNOT do anything to the rifle. Not even mount a scope or rings. Where they will get you is when you keep a rifle overnight. I would get the FFL.

 

[LRI]

If the owner is standing there with you for 100% of the duration that you work on his stuff, there's no issue. In that particular instance you do not have to be in possession of an FFL to service guns. As mentioned, it becomes an issue should the firearm be left in your possession overnight. If he leaves, the firearm must be in his custody. You can stab as many barrels onto receivers as you want so long as you adhere to that rule. The BATF won't give two chits about it. That is not manufacturing. It's customizing, altering, tailoring, whatever you want to call it.

Manufacturing is you bring in X product, work improvements to it, then turn around and sell it for profit. Example: You work over a dozen M700's, stab barrels onto the action, stuff em in a stock, and flog em out the door as "acme whatever killin machines". Now you just stepped into manufacturing and all the rules/requirements become relevant.

Stabbing a stick on neighbor Bob's 308 doesn't qualify as that. You customized his existing product. You provided a service, not a product.

From Uncle Sugar's viewfinder its about like sticking a holley 4 barrel on a car.

 

[Strykervet]

If the owner is standing there with you for 100% of the duration that you work on his stuff, there's no issue. In that particular instance you do not have to be in possession of an FFL to service guns. As mentioned, it becomes an issue should the firearm be left in your possession overnight. If he leaves, the firearm must be in his custody. You can stab as many barrels onto receivers as you want so long as you adhere to that rule. The BATF won't give two chits about it. That is not manufacturing. It's customizing, altering, tailoring, whatever you want to call it.

Manufacturing is you bring in X product, work improvements to it, then turn around and sell it for profit. Example: You work over a dozen M700's, stab barrels onto the action, stuff em in a stock, and flog em out the door as "acme whatever killin machines". Now you just stepped into manufacturing and all the rules/requirements become relevant.

Stabbing a stick on neighbor Bob's 308 doesn't qualify as that. You customized his existing product. You provided a service, not a product.

From Uncle Sugar's viewfinder its about like sticking a holley 4 barrel on a car.

Yep, and if you have a tax stamp for whatever it is, you can go to (pick a shop) and have them cut, for instance, a suppressor. Gotta be there though. I get my SBR lowers laser engraved and the guy that does it didn't have an FFL (they do now that they do more of that kind of work). Me or my wife just had to stand there while they did it.

Be wary of state laws though. In WA, we have this shitty law having to do with illegal transfers; it used to be worded so that you couldn't even share weapons with your spouse. They've reworded it but I'm sure they kept some of the bullshit otherwise it wouldn't be a law. At any rate, I'm pretty sure this is why the laser engraver got the FFL and not because they need to keep parts overnight.

 

[Nodakplowboy]

"and devloping a load with reloading supplys they buy and bring to you"...

".....as you show them the basics of reloading, and they reload their own ammo under your careful supervision."

This was you've at least got your ass half covered if they do something stupid.

 

[Wannashootit]

My interpretation is different.
The key words are "done with the principal objective of livelihood and profit"
Taking in an "occasional" firearm to work on, not keeping overnight, for profit wouldn't be an issue.

But doing it as a "business" precludes you from working on them period, without an FFL, whether kept overnight or not.

IOW, you cannot take in 5 jobs" daily " on a regular basis without an FFL. You would clearly be "in the business" of working on firearms.

Same goes for selling, no different. If BATF would consider you're doing it for livelihood and profit, FFL required.

 

[308pirate]

My interpretation is different.
The key words are "done with the principal objective of livelihood and profit"
Taking in an "occasional" firearm to work on, not keeping overnight, for profit wouldn't be an issue.

But doing it as a "business" precludes you from working on them period, without an FFL, whether kept overnight or not.

IOW, you cannot take in 5 jobs" daily " on a regular basis without an FFL. You would clearly be "in the business" of working on firearms.

Same goes for selling, no different. If BATF would consider you're doing it for livelihood and profit, FFL required.

+1

Anyone who thinks that a friend can't leave me a rifle for a few days to mount a scope/bed the action/tune the trigger/whatever unless I have an FFL is just plain wrong.

So long as you don't charge for parts and/or labor, you're not a gunsmith

Here's what the ATF says (emphasis added) https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/lic...customizing-refinishing-or-repairing-firearms

Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms? Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11) and (21); 27 CFR 478.11]

And (emphasis added again) ttps://www.atf.gov/file/82791/download

Gunsmithing
A dealer is “engaged in the business” of gunsmithing, as defined in 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(21)(D) and 27 CFR478.11, when he/she receives firearms (frames, receivers, or otherwise) provided by a customer for the purpose of repairing, modifying, embellishing, refurbishing, or installing parts in or on those firearms. Once the work is completed, the gunsmith returns the firearms, and charges the customer for
labor and parts.

 

[Alamo]

....I guess that's pretty well settled. Good to know.

 

[parshal]

I'm an FFL in Colorado. In Colorado, you must transfer the firearm if it will be in anyone's possession more than three days. That's not a Federal law but a state law.

Another thing to consider is that the Department of State requires you to pay them if you do any machining on a firearm. That's considered manufacturing per current interpretation of the law. That's completely separate from BATF.