If there are any guys on here who's department deploy .50BMG rifles please e-mail me. I would like to take a look at your SOP's and ask you some questions.
- Thread starter LoneWolfUSMC
- Start date
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
LW...Let me check with our SWAT cmdr. We just recently bought 2 Barrett's, but I don't think we have anything on paper yet. More of a J.I.C. type thing.
LW...Let me check with our SWAT cmdr. We just recently bought 2 Barrett's, but I don't think we have anything on paper yet. More of a J.I.C. type thing.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Must be nice.
We just came back from a DHS school where they mentioned numerous times that we should have a .50BMG. Now I just need to get some info on what others are doing and compile it so I can make a "well rounded" presentation.
Must be nice.
We just came back from a DHS school where they mentioned numerous times that we should have a .50BMG. Now I just need to get some info on what others are doing and compile it so I can make a "well rounded" presentation.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
the only .50 that has ever eevn been shot at my departments range is my EDM....
if my department was ever givin a 50...no one would be safe....dont worry, i would give all you guys a heads up
bench
the only .50 that has ever eevn been shot at my departments range is my EDM....
if my department was ever givin a 50...no one would be safe....dont worry, i would give all you guys a heads up
bench
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Tell 'em that you're going to get a .50 or else you're leaving! That should do it! What about past incidents at your dept. that you can reference and say, "If we would have had a nifty-fifty, the outcome could have been different", or use structures/areas around your jurisdiction, that if needed what you have now would be inadequate, (story of my life) and you would need the extra power/range of the .50? I think that is what finally convinced my dept. about it. We have some new development and plants/mills that you can barely see the boundaries, let alone hit a suspect with a .308 that's sighted in at 100.
Tell 'em that you're going to get a .50 or else you're leaving! That should do it! What about past incidents at your dept. that you can reference and say, "If we would have had a nifty-fifty, the outcome could have been different", or use structures/areas around your jurisdiction, that if needed what you have now would be inadequate, (story of my life) and you would need the extra power/range of the .50? I think that is what finally convinced my dept. about it. We have some new development and plants/mills that you can barely see the boundaries, let alone hit a suspect with a .308 that's sighted in at 100.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
I know the SWAT in Topeka, KS uses a 50 cal. I did a SWAT Team training class there a while ago. If you contact Lt. Brown he will be able to help you with any questions you may have. He is a super nice guy and you will enjoy talking with him. I think he is still there, it has been a couple years since the class.
Ryan
I know the SWAT in Topeka, KS uses a 50 cal. I did a SWAT Team training class there a while ago. If you contact Lt. Brown he will be able to help you with any questions you may have. He is a super nice guy and you will enjoy talking with him. I think he is still there, it has been a couple years since the class.
Ryan
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
The main problem is we have an Airport and several Marine Terminals. All pose long range/heavy cover problems that cannot really be solved with conventional weapons. That was a known issue before I got on our team. The latest training had the Feds telling us we need one for other reasons that are just now coming to light post 9/11.
The .50 is going to be a hard sell since our brass already turned one down once. It gets easier if I can point to other departments that are using them.
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. Keep them coming. If my PM box fills up, please shoot me an email.
The main problem is we have an Airport and several Marine Terminals. All pose long range/heavy cover problems that cannot really be solved with conventional weapons. That was a known issue before I got on our team. The latest training had the Feds telling us we need one for other reasons that are just now coming to light post 9/11.
The .50 is going to be a hard sell since our brass already turned one down once. It gets easier if I can point to other departments that are using them.
Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. Keep them coming. If my PM box fills up, please shoot me an email.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
LW,
Contact this Lt. and see if you can get his "presentation".
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/opinion-the-big-50-for-law-enforcement/
Contact Scott Palumbo here.
http://www.sniperschool.com/staff/
Contact Dave Agata here. (I know he now works for USCG so this link may or may not be viable)
http://www.specapptra.com/about.html
Tactical Edge 1992 Pg 27--Barrier Penetration Test
Tactical Edge 1998 Pg 19--McMillan Sniper Rifles, reaching out to 1800yd
Tactical Edge 1992 Pg 33--Intermediate Barriers
Tactical Edge 2006 Pg 38--Its a long shot
Chapter 9
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf
Contact this link and get their course description and scenarios for their 50BMG course.
http://www.precisionrifleworkshop.com/about.html
Thanks
LW,
Contact this Lt. and see if you can get his "presentation".
http://www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/opinion-the-big-50-for-law-enforcement/
Contact Scott Palumbo here.
http://www.sniperschool.com/staff/
Contact Dave Agata here. (I know he now works for USCG so this link may or may not be viable)
http://www.specapptra.com/about.html
Tactical Edge 1992 Pg 27--Barrier Penetration Test
Tactical Edge 1998 Pg 19--McMillan Sniper Rifles, reaching out to 1800yd
Tactical Edge 1992 Pg 33--Intermediate Barriers
Tactical Edge 2006 Pg 38--Its a long shot
Chapter 9
http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf
Contact this link and get their course description and scenarios for their 50BMG course.
http://www.precisionrifleworkshop.com/about.html
Thanks
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.
No reason to compromise those standards when the round gets four times as large..
Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.
No reason to compromise those standards when the round gets four times as large..
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.</div></div>
I will be looking at several different options, but it seems that Barrett and Bushmaster are the two top runners right now since they are both setup to support LE (armorers courses and support plans). I also have just a little bit of experience driving a M82A1A.
If we get our hands on a seized Barrett that was floating around in an adjacent jurisdiction that may be a BIG plus for us. I don't yet know if its a M82 type or a bolt action. Either would be acceptable for the mission as we see it now.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.</div></div>
I will be looking at several different options, but it seems that Barrett and Bushmaster are the two top runners right now since they are both setup to support LE (armorers courses and support plans). I also have just a little bit of experience driving a M82A1A.
If we get our hands on a seized Barrett that was floating around in an adjacent jurisdiction that may be a BIG plus for us. I don't yet know if its a M82 type or a bolt action. Either would be acceptable for the mission as we see it now.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Go down to El Paso/Juarez - should be a lot of 50 cals being confiscated down there
Go down to El Paso/Juarez - should be a lot of 50 cals being confiscated down there
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Locally the SO got a .50 after a run in with a unique individual on a CAT. Was it a year or two ago that Dallas (?) stopped a bus with one?
I think they are a good thing to have in the quiver.
Good luck
Locally the SO got a .50 after a run in with a unique individual on a CAT. Was it a year or two ago that Dallas (?) stopped a bus with one?
I think they are a good thing to have in the quiver.
Good luck
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go down to El Paso/Juarez - should be a lot of 50 cals being confiscated down there </div></div>
Was there last week. Thankfully I didn't see any.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Go down to El Paso/Juarez - should be a lot of 50 cals being confiscated down there
Was there last week. Thankfully I didn't see any.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.
No reason to compromise those standards when the round gets four times as large.. </div></div>
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigBrother</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Stating the obvious here, but it seems if you're going with a 50 for LE purposes, you should avoid the Barrett, at least in semi. Would you take a shot in a residential/heavily populated area with a 1.5 MOA 308? Probably not.
No reason to compromise those standards when the round gets four times as large..
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
You need to throw one across the room at the brass, while shouting, "(Insert Number) thousand civilians can't be wrong !"
Lee.
You need to throw one across the room at the brass, while shouting, "(Insert Number) thousand civilians can't be wrong !"
Lee.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Our local department saw a need for one. They employ one, but it is privately owned.
Vehicular stoppage argument is what made them see the light. They are a small town depatment with LOTS of drunks driving around. The case was presented if a drunk would not stop and was a hazard to public safety, a 50 could safely daisable the vehicle.
I don't think they have anything in writing, but I will ask. For that matter, if the officer that owns the 50 leaves or sells it they would not have that capability any more. I kind of dought that they would be able replace it.
Our local department saw a need for one. They employ one, but it is privately owned.
Vehicular stoppage argument is what made them see the light. They are a small town depatment with LOTS of drunks driving around. The case was presented if a drunk would not stop and was a hazard to public safety, a 50 could safely daisable the vehicle.
I don't think they have anything in writing, but I will ask. For that matter, if the officer that owns the 50 leaves or sells it they would not have that capability any more. I kind of dought that they would be able replace it.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
OK, just got off the pone and verified. Nothing in SOP persay. He said it is just covered under usage of personally owned weapons.
He did have a good suggestion though. Try going to the bigger cities websites (LA, Vegas, etc.). He said they often have SOP available online.
OK, just got off the pone and verified. Nothing in SOP persay. He said it is just covered under usage of personally owned weapons.
He did have a good suggestion though. Try going to the bigger cities websites (LA, Vegas, etc.). He said they often have SOP available online.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
If they dont go for the 50 go for the 20mm, claim, well the fbi has two, dont we need one? That way your good from bad guys to apc's lol.
If they dont go for the 50 go for the 20mm, claim, well the fbi has two, dont we need one? That way your good from bad guys to apc's lol.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
If a person owns a .50BMG could it be made available to the local PD?
If a person owns a .50BMG could it be made available to the local PD?
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
Depends on the PD.
The problem with a .50 is not so much acquiring the weapon system. It's the expense of training with it.
Depends on the PD.
The problem with a .50 is not so much acquiring the weapon system. It's the expense of training with it.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris
LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. <span style="font-weight: bold">Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc</span> so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it. </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. <span style="font-weight: bold">Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc</span> so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it. </div></div>
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. <span style="font-weight: bold">Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc</span> so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it. </div></div> </div></div>
you wont find it in a lot of states SOP because in some states it against the law to shoot at a moving vehicle...in Tx it against TCLEOSE regulations to shoot at a moving vehicle..many people ignore this, or just dont know it...i didnt know it until i became a training officer a few months back...will the departments say anything to a officer who has been put in a position to shoot at a moving vehicle?...hell no, and they shouldnt punish him for it...but this is why you will not find it in a lot of SOP'S
bench
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveV</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. I would appreciate being enlightened by people I respect (that's you and other police officers here on the 'hide).
I know this is a bit of a thread hi-jack, but perhaps dialog from this perspective will assist you in getting your department on board with using a BMG.
Respectfully,
-Chris </div></div>
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Our unit, a Tactical Team in a large metro city in Canada have a McMillan Tac 50. <span style="font-weight: bold">Obviously in an urban setting a 50 would be used for anti-material not anti personel, ie engine blocks etc</span> so if an agency has the chance to acquire a 50, whether it be a Barret or not, go for it. </div></div> </div></div>
you wont find it in a lot of states SOP because in some states it against the law to shoot at a moving vehicle...in Tx it against TCLEOSE regulations to shoot at a moving vehicle..many people ignore this, or just dont know it...i didnt know it until i became a training officer a few months back...will the departments say anything to a officer who has been put in a position to shoot at a moving vehicle?...hell no, and they shouldnt punish him for it...but this is why you will not find it in a lot of SOP'S
bench
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
The purpose of a .50 in law enforcement is the same as in the military: To engage targets at ranges beyond the effective range of smaller rifles and/or targets that smaller rifles or pistols would be ineffective on. If your at an airport you could easily have an engagement range of 2000 yards in some circumstances(lack of cover, not enough time to get closer, multiple points for a suspect to enter or leave). And any jurisdiction is going to have vehicles or objects that pistols or .223/.308 caliber rifles would be ineffective on.
Having a .50 is no different than having a radio, handcuffs, baton, Taser, and a pistol on my belt. It gives me options to deal with a situation in an effective manor. If someone steals a vehicle(regular or a heavy vehicle) and won't stop, without a .50 the only means I have to deal with it is using a spike strip or shooting out the tires with either my pistol, rifle, or shotgun and hoping the driver decides to stop or does something or something happens that causes the vehicle to loose mobility without further endangering people, or try to shoot the driver and hope the vehicle stops in a controlled manor. My department had a guy steal a 18-wheeler when I was in high school and the only reason it was stopped was after the officer's shot some of the tires out, the guy lost control and ran off the road into a field and got stuck. If I have a .50 and the circumstances allow it, I can back off and put a .50 round through the engine or the differentials. Take either of those two out and vehicle stops and most likely no one gets killed or injured.
Say you have an active shooter holed up in a building or behind a wall or another object a .223/.308 rifle can't penetrate effectively and there's no cover near enough for you to get a shot on the suspect with a .223 or .308. This youtube link gives you a good idea of the relative penetration capability of the rounds against normal types of building construction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDX...PL&index=23 . Purely from a liability and cost stand point, a single shot from a .50 rifle is a much better choice then the full auto fire from .223 or .308 machinegun that would have to be used to replace it.
The purpose of a .50 in law enforcement is the same as in the military: To engage targets at ranges beyond the effective range of smaller rifles and/or targets that smaller rifles or pistols would be ineffective on. If your at an airport you could easily have an engagement range of 2000 yards in some circumstances(lack of cover, not enough time to get closer, multiple points for a suspect to enter or leave). And any jurisdiction is going to have vehicles or objects that pistols or .223/.308 caliber rifles would be ineffective on.
Having a .50 is no different than having a radio, handcuffs, baton, Taser, and a pistol on my belt. It gives me options to deal with a situation in an effective manor. If someone steals a vehicle(regular or a heavy vehicle) and won't stop, without a .50 the only means I have to deal with it is using a spike strip or shooting out the tires with either my pistol, rifle, or shotgun and hoping the driver decides to stop or does something or something happens that causes the vehicle to loose mobility without further endangering people, or try to shoot the driver and hope the vehicle stops in a controlled manor. My department had a guy steal a 18-wheeler when I was in high school and the only reason it was stopped was after the officer's shot some of the tires out, the guy lost control and ran off the road into a field and got stuck. If I have a .50 and the circumstances allow it, I can back off and put a .50 round through the engine or the differentials. Take either of those two out and vehicle stops and most likely no one gets killed or injured.
Say you have an active shooter holed up in a building or behind a wall or another object a .223/.308 rifle can't penetrate effectively and there's no cover near enough for you to get a shot on the suspect with a .223 or .308. This youtube link gives you a good idea of the relative penetration capability of the rounds against normal types of building construction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lprGoEpDX...PL&index=23 . Purely from a liability and cost stand point, a single shot from a .50 rifle is a much better choice then the full auto fire from .223 or .308 machinegun that would have to be used to replace it.
G
Guest
Guest
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kilosierra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My department had a guy steal a 18-wheeler when I was in high school and the only reason it was stopped was after the officer's shot some of the tires out, the guy lost control and ran off the road into a field and got stuck. If I have a .50 and the circumstances allow it, I can back off and put a .50 round through the engine or the differentials. Take either of those two out and vehicle stops and most likely no one gets killed or injured.</div></div>
Knowing your target is 95% of the battle, theres not a semi that can't be stopped/slowed via a shotgun with #6's to the correct air line/s,... the ECM is the final nail,... dead ECM = Dead engine. The guy with the armored tractor tearing down the town, I'd have seen if he wanted to burn alive,..
Tactics, can stop an act just as well as brute force,...if your willing to learn the targets weakness.
Not saying theres never a need for a 50 BMG, but if I was going to step up for stopping power, I'd bring a 20MM to the contest.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kilosierra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My department had a guy steal a 18-wheeler when I was in high school and the only reason it was stopped was after the officer's shot some of the tires out, the guy lost control and ran off the road into a field and got stuck. If I have a .50 and the circumstances allow it, I can back off and put a .50 round through the engine or the differentials. Take either of those two out and vehicle stops and most likely no one gets killed or injured.</div></div>
Knowing your target is 95% of the battle, theres not a semi that can't be stopped/slowed via a shotgun with #6's to the correct air line/s,... the ECM is the final nail,... dead ECM = Dead engine. The guy with the armored tractor tearing down the town, I'd have seen if he wanted to burn alive,..
Tactics, can stop an act just as well as brute force,...if your willing to learn the targets weakness.
Not saying theres never a need for a 50 BMG, but if I was going to step up for stopping power, I'd bring a 20MM to the contest.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
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Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
RIP Killdozer.
RIP Killdozer.
Re: LE .50BMG questions.....
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. </div></div>
There are several scenarios that have been presented recently in training as well as just driving around our jurisdiction and "thinking evil".
A couple that are obvious is a hostage situation on an airport tarmac. It's doesn't need to be a Terrorist Hijacking. Just some nut with an '06 who takes his old lady hostage and wants to fly to Cuba or wherever. That would put us in a position where disabling an aircraft from 400-1500 yards away may be necessary. Eliminating the suspect at those ranges may also be necessary. A .308 isn't what I would choose for a shot at 800+ when I have to be sure he isn't getting back up until a contact team can close the distance.
If you have any ports in your area. Take a look at how far you may have to engage if you have a situation on a barge or other vessel. Some of them allow me to get real close. Some don't. Barges tend to have thick skin as well. If I had to engage through a pilot house it would be nice to make sure the bullet reaches the target. Backstops are usually not an issue.
Those were issues I was aware of before I went to the DHS PRSBI school at New Mexico Tech. They brought up several instances where we need access to a .50BMG. If any LEO's have thought about going to this school DO IT!!!! It's 100% paid for by the Feds. All you have to do is come up with the time. I won't go into the scenarios presented because the info is sensitive.
As mentioned above. A hard target interdiction rifle is just another tool in the arsenal. Once upon a time the administration told officers they were nuts for needing magazine fed rifles on the street. It's common practice now. Heavy caliber precision rifles will be the same way. It's better to have an not need then need and someone dies to prove the point.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cavemanmoore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LoneWolf,
As a naive citizen I can't help but wonder why in the world would a PD need a .50. </div></div>
There are several scenarios that have been presented recently in training as well as just driving around our jurisdiction and "thinking evil".
A couple that are obvious is a hostage situation on an airport tarmac. It's doesn't need to be a Terrorist Hijacking. Just some nut with an '06 who takes his old lady hostage and wants to fly to Cuba or wherever. That would put us in a position where disabling an aircraft from 400-1500 yards away may be necessary. Eliminating the suspect at those ranges may also be necessary. A .308 isn't what I would choose for a shot at 800+ when I have to be sure he isn't getting back up until a contact team can close the distance.
If you have any ports in your area. Take a look at how far you may have to engage if you have a situation on a barge or other vessel. Some of them allow me to get real close. Some don't. Barges tend to have thick skin as well. If I had to engage through a pilot house it would be nice to make sure the bullet reaches the target. Backstops are usually not an issue.
Those were issues I was aware of before I went to the DHS PRSBI school at New Mexico Tech. They brought up several instances where we need access to a .50BMG. If any LEO's have thought about going to this school DO IT!!!! It's 100% paid for by the Feds. All you have to do is come up with the time. I won't go into the scenarios presented because the info is sensitive.
As mentioned above. A hard target interdiction rifle is just another tool in the arsenal. Once upon a time the administration told officers they were nuts for needing magazine fed rifles on the street. It's common practice now. Heavy caliber precision rifles will be the same way. It's better to have an not need then need and someone dies to prove the point.
