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Lee collet die doesn´t "squeeze" enough...

Jayjay1

Jayjay1

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Oct 30, 2018
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#1
Hey folks,
I´ve heard and read somewhat about the Lee collet neck sizing die, liked the idea of it and thought I´ll give it a go.

Tried it out now and had an issue with the inner neck diameter being not tight enough.
It is for a 6.5 Creedmoor, bullet dia is .264, and the inner neck dia of the brass comes out with .2645 to .2648, no neck tension so.

Am I doing something wrong?
 
#3
You need to set the die so that you feel the neck material being squeezed by the collet against the decapping rod. Screw the die down further until you feel that feeling.
 
#5
Should be able to get it where it should be as is. If you've followed the directions and it's still not working go to Lee's website, fill out the RA form and send it back. If there is something wrong with it they will fix and send back to very quickly, at least they did with the one thing I ever had to send back.

Now, once you have it working correctly, you can also use their collet neck sizing die to adjust your neck tension. They have undersized mandrels available for such purpose.

Good luck!
 
#7
I have used the lee neck collet, along with Redding body, and Forster inline seater, in several calibers with great results. Most folks overdo it, sounds like you are on other side of spectrum.

Read instructions again and setup die, sounds like you need to be a bit more aggressive. With overcam press like my rock chucker, I set mine up so that last bit of press arm movement at bottom gives me the desired sizing. Which isn't much press arm pressure by the way.

Most folks set die up too far and oversize brass. Well, over squeeze, as you can't size under mandrel diameter. What they do is squeeze so hard they get heavy crimp marks on neck (from collet) and often physically damage the die itself.

Additionally, consider taking die apart while new and lightly sanding sharp edges of collets, inside, etc with fine grit paper. Add slight film of oil, then reassemble. This has worked good for me and avoids collet sticking, or clicky sound (near sticking) some folks have encountered.
 
#8
You can screw the die down past the camover range which will increase its sensitivity and feedback to you regarding the decapping rod/neck wall/collet sandwich. You will know when the neck is fully sized and when to stop applying pressure to the handle.
 
#9
If you set the die within the camover range, there is enough leverage in the system to extrude the neck material through the collet slits and out the front if the neck is soft enough.
 
#10
I´m using an older Lee Clasic Cast press.

Will do the sandpaper and oil job.

Can it be, that the mandrel is oversized a bit?
Will measure that too and eventually work it down a bit.
 
#11
Don't take the mandrel down over .001". Lee sells undersized mandrels. Give them a call. They are only a few bucks. Try the other recommendations here before sanding down the mandrel.

When you have the die set up properly, you you raise the ram up and you give the ram the final 25-30 FT.#'s at the very top stroke. You can feel the collet squeezing the neck. It's very slight. Feel for it.
 
#13
I have several Lee neck-sizing dies in several calibers and they are really great.

Follow the directions to set up the die.

After sizing the die lower the ram then turn the case 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Then size again.

Remove the case and place a bullet in the mouth. It should stop in the mouth as if you had used a full length sizer.

A word of caution is in order and I'm sure they say this in the instructions. Be careful about screwing the die in too far as it can be damaged when you reach the "cam over" position.

Try turning the case like I said and that should solve your problem.
 
#14
For presses that cam over I adjust the die down with a case in the shellholder. It does not take much and the feeling is light. It does provide some very concentric necks as the collet is squeezed with the same repeated force as the press "cams overs center" removing any slop or inconsistencies with my just depending on feel on any random day and prefer it these days.
YMMV.


That being said I think your press does not have the toggle feature and when I started I had the same press. Cam over or not as others stated with the correct force you can feel the collet squeeze the neck, I have sized many many necks with collet die on my old lee cast and with more touchy feely and a bit more elbow grease you'll get it.

+1 on the undersized mandrels
 
#15
Well, it might be that I´ve ruined the die.

Because it didn´t squeeze enough, I did turn it in deeper try again and turn it deeper again and so on.

I will check that out.
 
#16
you did not ruin the die...the LCD has an aluminum top that is designed to strip the threads off and pop out if you screw the die in to far...i know because ive done it.

pull your mandrel out and measure it...if its .264 your going to get .000 neck tension when you factor in the spring back even if its .263 you may only get .000 or .0005...measure it and figure out how much tention you want and hone the mandrel down....use 1500 and 2500 grit wet and dry sand paper chuck the mandrel up in a drill and start with the 1500 and use it dry no need for oil or water...as your honing the mandrel make sure that your honing the entire mandrel...you do not need to hone the very top only the part that goes into your case and that actually sizes the neck.

spin it in the drill and measure often...when you get to 0.0005 over where you want to be switch to the 2500 grit and finish it up and that thing will look like a mirror...also as suggested id call lee and order a few mandrels they take 3-6wks or so...or did last time i ordered them...id also order a couple of the screw in tops as i said ive pop a few of them...if you have questions PM me ill send my number i can talk you through this its very simple.
 
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#17
47guy and all:

Done what you have adviced.
Mandrel measured out .263.

I´ve used 1200 grit sand paper (was the finest I had on hands) and slightly worked on the outside of the collet and in the slots, then polished it.
After that I´ve oiled up the surface and put it back together again.

Went on with my cases and pushed this time with some more pressure.
The inner dia of the cases is now roundabout .2635 and I can´t insert a bullet by hand.

I think it is gtg. this way.

Thanks to all of you for your overwhelming support in here.
Great help, great forum!
(y)(y)
 
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#19
47guy said:
you did not ruin the die...the LCD has an aluminum top that is designed to strip the threads off and pop out if you screw the die in to far...i know because ive done it.

pull your mandrel out and measure it...if its .264 your going to get .000 neck tension when you factor in the spring back even if its .263 you may only get .000 or .0005...measure it and figure out how much tention you want and hone the mandrel down....use 1500 and 2500 grit wet and dry sand paper chuck the mandrel up in a drill and start with the 1500 and use it dry no need for oil or water...as your honing the mandrel make sure that your honing the entire mandrel...you do not need to hone the very top only the part that goes into your case and that actually sizes the neck.

spin it in the drill and measure often...when you get to 0.0005 over where you want to be switch to the 2500 grit and finish it up and that thing will look like a mirror...also as suggested id call lee and order a few mandrels they take 3-6wks or so...or did last time i ordered them...id also order a couple of the screw in tops as i said ive pop a few of them...if you have questions PM me ill send my number i can talk you through this its very simple.
Click to expand...

My dad has one he popped the top out of also. I like to cam over on them a little to keep them consistent. Cam over too much and pop goes the weasel. LOL
 
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#21
Cam over is when the ram reaches the highest point in its travel by stopping against the bottom of the die but you are still able to push the handle down further due to the abundance of leverage.
 
#23
Jayjay1 said:
I like weasels.

But what do you mean with "cam over"?
Click to expand...

if your press does cam over you only want it to do it a TINY bit with the LCD or youll pop the aluminum top out...the first time i used a LCD i had the same issue your having and kept screwing the die down more and more until POP and it still would no size the neck enough...if you can see lines from the collet your over camming to much.

with the die set correctly you sould feel a VERY SLIGHT resistance(bump)right as the ram is at its highest point and your neck should be size where you want it to be if not the mandrel is to big.

im ASSuming you meant the mandrel measured .263 and now it measures .2625? if so...unless your a benchrest shooter thats not...IMHO...enough neck tension...i run a minimum of .002 anything less and i get high ESs and thats in everything ive shot.

measure a sized neck then seat a bullet and measure a loaded neck...my BRX sized is .266 loaded is .268.
 
#24
supercorndogs said:
My dad has one he popped the top out of also. I like to cam over on them a little to keep them consistent. Cam over too much and pop goes the weasel. LOL
Click to expand...

i popped 2 in one sitting before i finally figured out the LCD...funny thing is i dont use one anymore and havent in years...for me its just easier and faster to FL size every time.
 
#25
47guy said:
i popped 2 in one sitting before i finally figured out the LCD...funny thing is i dont use one anymore and havent in years...for me its just easier and faster to FL size every time.
Click to expand...

Same here, I was down to just using one on my 300wm, then I decided to drop the hassle. I still use one if a neck has a crinkle from hitting the ground or something.
 
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#28
47guy said:
im ASSuming you meant the mandrel measured .263 and now it measures .2625? if so...unless your a benchrest shooter thats not...IMHO...enough neck tension...i run a minimum of .002 anything less and i get high ESs and thats in everything ive shot.
Click to expand...

Humm, well, there was a crimp die with the Lee kit too?!
 
#29
Not the best solution. Lee will make you a custom mandrel for the collet die. I rarely use anything but a standard FL die anymore. It just works once you get it set right and get your process down. I had more than once where I sized with the collet die only to find I could push bullets in by hand.
 
#30
Well, I´m just a random guy who has read some books.
What I hope I do remember right, neck sizing helps with accuracy, that´s why I wanna do it that way.

I think it was described in the Hornady book, that neck sizing only will help to fire the bullet centered to the barrel.

Just what I´ve read, I´ve never done a comparison of accuracy between FLS and NSO cases only.
But it seemed somehow logical to me.
 
#31
Jayjay1 said:
Well, I´m just a random guy who has read some books.
What I hope I do remember right, neck sizing helps with accuracy, that´s why I wanna do it that way.

I think it was described in the Hornady book, that neck sizing only will help to fire the bullet centered to the barrel.

Just what I´ve read, I´ve never done a comparison of accuracy between FLS and NSO cases only.
But it seemed somehow logical to me.
Click to expand...

If you want to collet as the only step on the neck then youll want to get a body die to pair it with. Because your bolt will get hard to close with neck sizing only. Might as well make it consistent for every loading and full length. (I neck sized for the first 10 years myself, couldnt pay me to do it now that I know better)


 
#32
Who is that guy in the video?

Well, like I said, I´m no expert at all, just try to find my way with trial and error.
Reading and listening to others, and there are always different opinions.

That there will be no better fit like with a fireformed case seems reasonable to me.
And it stresses the brass the least as well.

What you are saying, that I will have a hard time to close the chamber with such brass, yeah, sounds reasonable too. :rolleyes:

I will give it a try and look how it works out for me, ok?
If the bullets sit tight and firm, the accuracy is good to greeeaat, the rounds slide in smoothly and the system closes fine, I will try it a bit more that way.
If something doesn´t work well, I will have to change something.

What is the point to neck-size first and then full-size after that?
 
#34
I use to neck size and bump things back in seperate steps with a body die. Now I just do it all in one process witha honed expander and a forster fl die when my brass needs it. I know my rifles well enough that after 4-6 firings depending on which caliber, brass takes a journey thru the annealer and then fl resized with just neck sizing in between.

In my personal xp and testing I don't mess with bushing dies anymore unless I am turning my necks. Of course we all have our own methods of what we all prefer.
 
#35
Jayjay1 said:
Who is that guy in the video?
What is the point to neck-size first and then full-size after that?
Click to expand...


Thats Erik Cortina in the video, hes pretty well known in shooting circles. http://www.lapua.com/en/lapua-team/lapua-team-usa/erik-cortina.html



I cant answer you straight in regards to what I assume you mean as a "neck sizing via traditional neck sizing die" first and then full length later since I dont do exact process that but I would assume its to to set each cases neck tension to the same levels for the first firing. Virgin brass can be all over the place in how much bullet grip they give, lapua included.

Well, I said I dont "neck size" first but I will anneal the cases and run a mandrel through the mouths before loading which I suppose is a neck sizing process but its just opening them up, no squeezing down of or outside contact with the brass. My lapua brass mouths comes way small making bullet seating difficult and uneven, the mandrel lessens it and sets them all to the same level so that the resulting cases will all be closely matching one another in their blow lengths. Your collet could serve the same purpose.





And if you do want to neck size exclusively then by all means go for it, like I said above, I did for a decade myself. Just promise me to make sure you try to chamber the brass after sizing and before seating bullets so that you dont end up with a bunch of rounds you have to disassemble because the bolt wont close on them. Thats what finally got me to expand my horizons to full length sizing and having to lube cases to do so.



In each firing the brass expands in all directions (length as well as diameter) and so does the chamber steel (to a much smaller extent than the brass obviously) but eventually that brass gets hard enough and looses its elasticity that it will expand open to the max chamber size during firing and then since its not elastic and has lost spring back it will stay large and be difficult to extract. You basically hammer fitted it into the chamber. Since you only touch the necks in neck sizing those now larger pieces of brass will be too large to fit in the chamber without a hammer the next time.

1545085998384.png




Some people that do neck sizing and dont have the issues are lucky or they are using very closely matched reamers/chambers and brass and they take it easy with loads that are light enough to not work the brass too hard and over come its material properties. They are on top of their complete system though, not just getting into it. Eventually they will still have to use a body die though at some point, its just much further down the road.
 
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#36
I´m reloading now for roundabout 15 years and am a sport shootist for almost 25 years now.
Competitively I was doing almost only handguns, and a bit of old military rifles just for the fun.

Loading pistol calibers is waaay easier as you surely know, and with my old "ordonance" rifles I was always able to hit the 10 at 100m (well, the loads were, not me).

The cases for the ordonance calibers were all neck-sized and then full-length-sized, when I had the feeling I had to.
Of course those were all fired in the same rifles (G11/Swiss and USM of 1917).
(Just a view years ago I "upgraded" to an AR15 and a front-action in .223, which I just FL sized.)

Getting older and looking for a new playground, I thought I will join the rifle-precision-shooting-train and bought me a Tikka two months ago.
So I´m learning shooting and reloading somehow new on another level.

Just by reading your infos I feel like it reminds me of some issues I had with the old boomsticks.
But maybe I never realized it?!
Over here we say, you sometimes don´t realize that you have a problem, until someone is bumping your nose on it.

But fth of it.
Learning more and new things is part of the journey, right?
It just makes it more interesting to try, fail, and then try again to come up with another - sometimes better - result.
Or just maybe I´m not wise enough and have to do my own faults. :geek:

I highly appreciate your informations.
It is always a pleasure for me, if someone with a higher knowledge is sharing it with me.
Chapeau! to you spife and all the others here.
 
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#37
jay jay do yourself a favor and just skip the neck sizing thing and buy i nice full length sizing die then later if you deem it necessary revisit the neck die...like spife and a few other when i started reloading i neck sized and all it did was cause me headaches and extra time at the bench.
 
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#38
Allright then, got me a Forster FL die and sized the brass with it.

What it does, is to fullsize the brass (obviously) but downsize the neck very much too.
The inner dia of the neck is then roundabout .252", when it should be .262 or .263".

In my opinion that stresses the necks more than it should.
I´m thinking about getting me a drill with .260" or something to open up the die in the neck area.

Another option would be to just to use the mandrel of the Lee collet die and open up that necks after FL-sizing them.
But that seems to make even less sense and bringing more stress to the necks.

What do you think?
 
#40
Forster will open up the neck by .007” or so. Or you can get a Redding body die. All it sizes is the body and shoulder, and much less than a FL die. Better than trying to drill your Forster.
 
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#41
Well, if I would live in the US I surely would send the die to Forster, but for me, the shipping costs would be way more than the honing of the die and I would have to wait months for it.

Does the Redding die do absolutely nothing to the neck?
 
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