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Hunting & Fishing Legally, are the 175 SMK BTHP considered as FMJ?

Tango down

Full Member
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 2, 2011
775
43
Las Vegas, NV
It is all in the title.
From a legal standpoint, are the 175 SMK BTHP considered as FMJ, which makes them illegal to hunt with in the state of NV?
 
As always, shot placement is key with anything. That being said, SMKs are a match bullet not a hunting bullet. I have personally seen very poor performance from 175 SMKs on mule deer on two different occasions, and because of that, I will never hunt with them, or suggest them to anyone for hunting.

You can get very good bonded hunting bullets now that have a better BC than the SMKs, and perform much better on big game than SMKs will. The Nosler Long Range bullets are a great example. The 175 gr SMK has a G1 BC of .505 and the .30 cal Nosler 190 Gr Accubond LR has a G1 BC of .640. Even the normal 180gr Nosler Accubond (not the long range version) has a slightly higher BC than the SMK, of .507. No reason to hunt with SMKs in my opinion.

AccuBond Long Range Bullet ? Nosler
 
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I agree with the above statements. I have seen great results with Amax rounds hunting though.
 
I agree with the above statements. I have seen great results with Amax rounds hunting though.

Which is also a match bullet not recommended for hunting. But, I'll be shooting them out of my 308 this year.
 
I shot a big mule deer buck at 515 yards with a 178 gr AMAX bullet. It did the job, but I was also un-impressed with the wound channel. It was definitely better than the SMK, and I would feel ok hunting with it, however the 180 gr Nosler Accubond has the same BC as the 178gr AMAX, and performs better. Better choice for hunting IMO
 
Prior to the "Match King" marketing thing, I've shot some nice 4 point muleys with 85 and 87 gr. .243 and .257 Roberts. So damn old, the bullets came in cardboard boxes, with metal stamped reinforced corners. Lightnings or Blitz's if I remember right. Benchrest bullets that we used for hunting deer/coyotes/rabbits/straydogs... We didn't have elk in NV back then. Antelope was a "once in a lifetime" back then. I shot those deer using the same batch of bullets my dad used to shoot his 34 1/2" 4-point in the Toquima's in 1953. Some place was going out of business and had them on sale @ $1.00 a box. My dad took all 20 boxes.
 
The question was from a legal standpoint, not ethical but I value and respect everyone's opinion. I did call a Game Warden in Reno and got answers, as I had 2 questions for him.
First question was about the 175 SMK being legal or not, as FMJ are not in NV. Warden's answer was...(he had to do some research for this one) 175 SMK BTHP is not a FMJ, therefore is legal.
Second question was: is there a magazine max capacity for hunting big game, as I thought/heard 5 rounds were max. Answer from Warden; no; no restriction on magazine capacity.
Always good to know; Thanks y'all.
For the record, will be hunting with 178 AMAX but was curious about the legality of the SMK, as I heard different opinions.
 
Even the military dont adres the 175smk as fmj, but open tip.

The OP was not concerned with the Hauge only hunting but......

I think the concerned powers base their objection on intent of design.....

is the intent of design to increase pain, suffering, grievious wounding - Fail

is the intent of design to increase accuracy while not resulting in grievious wounding - Pass

as noted by the hunters here it seems BTHP falls into the second category.

PS add ------- Odd difference of positions

Game Wardens want animals dead fast

Lawyers of War want people out of the fight but with a chance to live via a through and through, clean wound

Police armorers are in the same camp as game wardens when it comes to criminals.
 
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The above is not exactly correct. Hunting bullets fall, roughly, into three categories. The first are varmint bullets, the second are big game bullets, and the third are dangerous game bullets. Varmint bullets are designed to fragment and cause max damage to small light skinned animals- penetration depth is not a concern. Big game bullets are designed for controlled expansion with maximum weight extension to ensure deep penetration- a balance of large diameter wound channel + deep wound channel. Dangerous game bullets are typically large bore bullets specifically designed for deep penetration- wound channel diameter via expansion is not as much of a concern as sufficiently deep penetration to reach vitals. In all three categories what is most important is consistent terminal performance. Bullet designers will trade some accuracy to gain consistency in on-game performance. This is why Sierra designed the game king. It is supposed to have match king like accuracy with the benefit of consistent terminal performance. All of this is to say that the primary concern of hunters is to match the bullet to the game in order to ensure quick kills. Prairie dog hunters want to see the "dogs" flip and explode, and they choose bullets like "varmint grenades" designed to fragment violently upon entry. Coyote hunters may be concerned with getting pelts that can be sold, and will choose bullets that will enter and fragment in order to prevent exit wounds that can ruin the hides. Deer hunters tend to fall into 2 camps, those that want clean pass throughs (maximize blood loss??) and those that prefer to have the bullet stop under the skin on the far side of the animal (max energy transfer??). Elephant hunters want bullets that can drive through several inches of honeycomb like skull material in order to reach the brain. As hunters we are less concerned with stopping a threat than we are with recovering game animals- except for those that find themselves within "halitosis range" of an angry elephant. A through and through FMJ may take a soldier out of the fight, but may allow a 90lb deer to run a mile or more before expiring.

For a hunting bullet, it is about sufficient accuracy to put a bullet where it can do maximum damage to vital organs, ensuring a quick kill and sure recovery. Anecdotal evidence presented here on the hide and elsewhere on the web suggests mixed results from open tip match bullets- those that have used them either love them or hate them. If the SMK works for you then go with it, but there are bullets specifically designed for terminal performance- for example, that is why Sierra made the game king.
 
A true sporting man would go quietly into the night with a Gerber,...

I'm not entirely sure what is meant here, but I have chosen to translate the above as "game king bullets and Gerber knives were both fine in their day, however, they have both been surpassed by modern designs and materials..."

A modern compound bow is as sporting as I get. Gerber isn't what it once was, and I have different tastes in knives. Although, I do still have my first hunting knife- a Gerber exchange-a-blade.

I used game kings merely as an example. As stated above- if I don't fill my tags with my bow- I'll be shooting Amaxes out of my 308, also neither specifically designed nor recommended for hunting.
 
A true sporting man would go quietly into the night with a Gerber,...

Now the question comes up as is it a Mk I., Mk II., Boot, Harsey Hunter, or best yet the 5" or 7" Green Beret*? Of course, the myriad of other blades Gerber makes would be possible.

*Might get you a part as a movie extra in the "Deer Hunter Pt. II".;)

Apologies: Had my facts "F'd up" by drinkin' too many beers. Gerber didn't make the Green Beret. I thought it was funny at the time...
 
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How many sets of petrified ears, are required for lead?
Mk II s/n 11XX
Vintage Gerber Knives - Mark1 & Mark2 Series

I'm thinkin' ten pair. But, if your system of hanging them on the necklace only has room for one side, then that'd probably be enough. Don't try and fool these guys with dried apricots though...somebody'll find out and eat 'em. At that point you are no longer 'tactical'. Just offensive.:D