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Suppressors LES BAER?

Re: LES BAER?

To the OP,

yes, they are worth the money. The Thunder Ranch is very high quality, especially for the price point.

I previously had two Wilsons, a Tac Elite and a Stealth, that were more expensive. I also owned some Colts in times past. After trying a Baer, I traded the Wilsons off the next week and replaced them with Baer SRP's. The SRP's have been one of the best two gun purchases I ever made.

If it is a retirement gift for yourself, also look at the SRP, which receives additional hand-fitting, which is what drives up the price compared to the other comparable models.

The Thunder Ranch has slimmer, smooth grips compared to the Custom Carry or the SRP.

Don't worry about the tightness. After a couple of hundred rounds, it will rack like it is on slick glass.

Lube it with Brian Enos' Slide Glide or Wilson Ultima lube right off the bat. Mine have been 100% reliable right out of the box and are the most reliable pistols I have owned including Sigs and Glocks.

The one noticeable thing about the Baers I have noticed is they will shoot to the left for the first few hundred rounds and then settle in perfectly. I suspect it is due to the very tight fit causing more recoil initially. Anyway, give them a good workout on the first couple of range outings and it should settle in.

John at Proload is definitely the go-to guy to buy from, but make sure you have time when you call as he loves to chat.

Hope that gives you some helpful info.
 
Re: LES BAER?

Dave Severns at Severns Custom is also a great place for Baers especially if you want something custom.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jeffbird</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

If it is a retirement gift for yourself, also look at the SRP, which receives additional hand-fitting, which is what drives up the price compared to the other comparable models.
</div></div>

I think I am the only SRP / UM owner to ever say it plainly - they are ALL THE SAME GUN. All this 'but they put extra fairy dust in the mix' is an internet myth. I have spoken to Les several times on the phone (to his credit he still hangs out at the shop and still picks up the phone some BTW)- he has told me - all the same - that's were I got it. BTW SRP's haven't been magna fluxed since the days of the double stack (Para frame) contract submittal guns.

As for John at Pro Load or Becky at Sporting Arms (insert name here) fulfilling the CS role - please, don't make me laugh, esp as Les is quick to point out the Magnuson - Moss Act . At best, the only thing either one of them is going to do is have you send it to them (on your dime) and then they will send it off to Les, and make an occasional phone call on your behalf (when you call them and bitch it is taking too long or it is still f*cked up). Les and his crew are human, occasionally they crank out a lemon - if you are human, and have a clue about how a 1911 works - just get in his face, if it is a .45 ACP, he'll make it run.

I am not saying LB is bad - I have 3 and carry one daily. I am saying they are by no means works of art. I am saying Les is a prick. I am saying - politely - if you can not answer 'what is so special about a TRS?', maybe a 'Custom' (package) 1911 isn't really what you need at this point.

You want custom? Get yourself a cool old Colt with a roll mark that you really dig. Shoot the piss out of it for a few years while hanging out with a bunch of shooters that really shoot the way you fancy the role of that gun - see what they dig, see if it works for you. Spec your parts, decide on a smith, decide how much machine work you want - what do you think about French Boarders / Ball Cuts / Hi Power front ends / Serrations vs Conads vs Snakeskin / high cut front straps vs standard and an arched MSH, paint vs blue vs hard chrome? Those things, to your spec - are cool and custom.

A Baer / Brown / Fusion / Nighthawk / Rock River / Springer Pro / Wilson / Volkman - these are package guns. You are buying a good quality, needless accurate, extremely high likely hood of going bang for 100k rounds, limited personality and on a sliding scale of pretty vs cost 1911. These aren't customs and they sure as hell aren't heirlooms. They should be viewed as EDC guns. They are at a price point likely guarantee reliability out of the box, and ensure against brain damage for the creatively challenged who can not spec a custom, the impatient that say 'good enough', or those that really don't care about how it looks but need it to go bang and put rounds where they want them.


Good luck
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As for John at Pro Load or Becky at Sporting Arms (insert name here) fulfilling the CS role - please, don't make me laugh, esp as Les is quick to point out the Magnuson - Moss Act. At best, the only thing either one of them is going to do is have you send it to them (on your dime) and then they will send it off to Les, and make an occasional phone call on your behalf (when you call them and bitch it is taking too long or it is still f*cked up).
</div></div>

My point about that is that if you call LB, you are not going to talk to a smith, you are going to talk to a receptionist and all the receptionist is trained to say is, "send it in." John can diagnose the problem over the phone, check it out, and use his pull to get Les to respond in an appropriate manner. John has more pull than a single consumer because he does a very large portion of Les's sales volume. John is more likely to make you whole than if you deal directly with Les. And yes, they do crank out a few lemons with the volume they do.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
A Baer / Brown / Fusion / Nighthawk / Rock River / Springer Pro / Wilson / Volkman - these are package guns. You are buying a good quality, needless accurate, extremely high likely hood of going bang for 100k rounds, limited personality and on a sliding scale of pretty vs cost 1911. These aren't customs and they sure as hell aren't heirlooms. They should be viewed as EDC guns. They are at a price point likely guarantee reliability out of the box, and ensure against brain damage for the creatively challenged who can not spec a custom, the impatient that say 'good enough', or those that really don't care about how it looks but need it to go bang and put rounds where they want them.
</div></div>

That's a good assessment, except that I would put Volkmann in a different category. He doesn't make his own parts. Unlike the custom makers, he is building from the ground up. He is somewhere between semi-custom and full custom. He really offers a lot more customization options than the semi-custom guys. And he is a one-man shop.

As for Baer, one should go in knowing the fit and finish aren't going to be perfect.
 
Re: LES BAER?

actually, i really don't give a rats ass about the bling, cool factor, angle of the front seration cuts etc etc. i want a 100% reliable from the get go ( factoring in a break in period), accurate, good sites, reliable mags etc gun. i want a 1911 that FUNCTIONS for a hell of a big rd. count and feeds anything i put in it. the suggestion to find a colt (maybe a commander like the one i gave my son) and have it worked up by a smith like 10 ring in san antonio or ??? is sounding better and better. finish? don't care. it can be refinished. slides can be tightened. i was told by a 1911 smith that taking a beater and having a smith turn it into a jewel would be cost prohibitive as opposed to buying a good new one, such as a TRS. maybe i should pick a MP in .45acp to go w/my MP in .40 cal and spend the savings on hookers and beer.
 
Re: LES BAER?

If the only criteria is that you want a high quality, reliable firearm, just get a Springfield Loaded or TRP and be done with it.

If nothing else, you'll have a firearm with a better finish, but not quite the tight fit of a Baer or similar.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think I am the only SRP / UM owner to ever say it plainly - they are ALL THE SAME GUN.
</div></div>

Really? Similar yes, same, definitely not. I did not mention anything about Magnaflux, not sure why you are going off on that tangent. And my discussions were quite different than yours, with the difference in price being explained as about 20 - 40 extra hours of fitting and finishing. Custom, no, just extra attention by the more experienced smiths.

I mentioned John at Proload because he is more likely to have something in stock than most other dealers and almost always will have a better price.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mo_Zam_Beek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">They should be viewed as EDC guns.... or those that really don't care about how it looks but need it to go bang and put rounds where they want them.</div></div>

Concur 100%.

 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> the suggestion to find a colt (maybe a commander like the one i gave my son) and have it worked up by a smith like 10 ring in san antonio or ??? is sounding better and better. </div></div>

If you aren't already - check out LouderThanWords Sky is the limit on what can be done and what it costs. Be prepared to wait a long time too

While I am not wild about Springers in general - the thought expressed above is a good one.

I only mention Colt b/c I kinda like the big letter series guns.

A Glock 17 is still a better bet......


Good luck
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If the only criteria is that you want a high quality, reliable firearm, just get a Springfield Loaded or TRP and be done with it.

If nothing else, you'll have a firearm with a better finish, but not quite the tight fit of a Baer or similar. </div></div>
exactly. i am not out to impress anyone, or compete. i just want a good defensive weapon i can shoot the shit out of. as far as springers, i have HEARD/READ, but don't KNOW, that they are all slapped together from parts mass produced in croatia. i think the term was "croation crap". i do know first hand of a swat officer that had so many FTF w/his that he sent it back to springfield, got it back and it still wouldn't feed factory hardball straight out of the box they sent it back to him in. his wife bought him a thunder ranch for xmas and he loves it.
 
Re: LES BAER?

Nobody in the business has better customer service than Springfield. My 1911 is a Kimber, but the gun I carry every day and trust my life to is a Springfield.

Food for thought.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nobody in the business has better customer service than Springfield. My 1911 is a Kimber, but the gun I carry every day and trust my life to is a Springfield.

Food for thought. </div></div>

and mine to an MP 40 cal w/a viridian C5 under it. you could fill in the blank (brand)of lots of diff. guns. all good infor. but i still feel like i'm getting nowhere. i guess the ford/chevy issue will never be solved.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> as far as springers, i have HEARD/READ, but don't KNOW, that they are all slapped together from parts mass produced in croatia. i think the term was "croation crap".</div></div>


The forgings and initial machining are made / done in Brazil. They use a 2 piece barrel as well. Without kicking off the same discussion here - do some homework on MIM parts and more specifically - the particular flavor of MIM used by whichever mass produced blaster you are looking at.


Good luck
 
Re: LES BAER?

Better trade in your car if MIM is a problem. I bet the connecting rods are made from it.
 
Re: LES BAER?

I have shot 4 Les Baers, and none of them shot to the left for me; not even when brand new. As long as you are prepared for the possibility of initial slide tightness, and willing to shoot a few hundred rounds through the pistol (which you probably already know you should do anyway, before trusting it), you will almost certainly love one of Les Baer's pistols.

As far as Les's customer service, I have a good friend who owns several Les Baer pistols. All but one have exceeded his expectations, but one, bought years ago, shot groups of about 7 inches at 25 yards, and jammed, even with hardball. At the time, my friend called the company, and was passed to Les himself, who told him to send the pistol in. My friend told Les that he needed it back quickly, and Les told him that, if he would pay for next day air shipping to Les, Les would pay for next day air shipping back. My friend received his gun back within about one week, and it then grouped 2.5 inches at 50 yards, and no longer jammed, even with hollow points.

That pistol has had about 40,000 rounds through it, and still shoots 2.5 inch groups at 50 yards. By the way, these are 8-shot groups, because that is how many rounds the Wilson magazines hold.

I think you will be very pleased with any pistol Les makes.

 
Re: LES BAER?

To the op just buy a Glock you are a dumb ass , something like a TRS would be wasted on you .

Yes the Baer finish is not as good as other's if you get on you will need to keep it oil'd to prevent rusting they are typically not high maintenance from what I know of them ,just keep em lubed and they will stay running just like all good 1911's should.

The finish will wear faster than some .

Like all gun maker's they do turn out dud's from time to time


me I am going with the P2 no fcs strong side safety.

.Dave
 
Re: LES BAER?

To the op just buy a Glock you are a dumb ass , something like a TRS would be wasted on you .

here we go, another knuckle dragger with facial twitches. go away. your RICKY THE RUMP RANGER presence is not welcome. no more responses to you.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better trade in your car if MIM is a problem. I bet the connecting rods are made from it. </div></div>

i'll bet theres a lot more than that made from it on my trucks.
 
Re: LES BAER?

I've owned a few Les Baer's. Won't own another. Paid for that lesson. I'd pass on a Brand NEW TRS for $800.

I've never been impressed with Wilson Combat's offerings or workmanship. Pretty paint. Like a Kimber with better colors. Their mags work well though.

I've broken a stack of Kimber's.

I've bought no less than 5 Springfield's with the intention of building off them. All were garbage brand new in the box from the distributor. No idea how their custom shop is.

My next one will be an Ed Brown Kobra Carry in stainless. Assuming I decide it will do something my HK45C won't. Not holding my breath.

I think you should buy the Baer. Get the most expensive one you can afford. As has been said earlier, they are all really the same, save the name, but the name means a lot to some. I mean, crap, you're already sort of impressed by it and I was myself at one point. Buy the ticket, ride the ride. I'm betting you shoot half a case through it and think it's the greatest thing EVER.
 
Re: LES BAER?

My next one will be an Ed Brown Kobra Carry in stainless.

why? tell me what it has the others don't that you like.

just half a case? maybe so, but i've got 3,000 .45acp rds. on hand w/over 1000 brass waiting, cast my own, a 650, etc etc.
thanks for the reply. good stuff!
 
Re: LES BAER?

I'll just add my two cents. I took Lori shooting when we first got married eleven years ago. She had never seen a a gun much less handled and shot one. It's a New York thing, don't start please. Anyhow I gave her a very short lesson, put a target up about ten yards down range and she took out the complete center of the target. She loved the slim grip of the Thunder Ranch and asked, how did I do?

Maxwell
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll just add my two cents. I took Lori shooting when we first got married eleven years ago. She had never seen a a gun much less handled and shot one. It's a New York thing, don't start please. Anyhow I gave her a very short lesson, put a target up about ten yards down range and she took out the complete center of the target. She loved the slim grip of the Thunder Ranch and asked, how did I do?

Maxwell </div></div>
never SEEN a gun? i thought in new york you could see a mugging/shooting/murder on every other street corner. course i was in NYC ONCE a few years ago (yes, the 60's were a few years ago and i was a kid) and the doorman of a hotel asked me if we still rode stagecoaches in texas. and he was serious. Lori sounds like a keeper. still have the TR? if so, tell me how its done,
and rd. count to date etc please. any problems?
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn English, then post. It's pretty easy. </div></div>
evidently its not. i come from west tex and there are thousands upon thousands of 3rd generation mexicans that can only say "lone star card" in english.
 
Re: LES BAER?

Save the pain, get a Colt 1991 and send it to Yost, Novak or Morris, drink scotch and wait a year to have a true masterpiece. You wont be disappointed.

T
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn English, then post. It's pretty easy. </div></div>
evidently its not. i come from west tex and there are thousands upon thousands of 3rd generation mexicans that can only say "lone star card" in english. </div></div> So, you are saying that you are as lazy as a 3rd generation Mexican that can't be bothered to learn the national language of the country he resides in? I'm a bit confused as to what the point is you are trying to make..
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll just add my two cents. I took Lori shooting when we first got married eleven years ago. She had never seen a a gun much less handled and shot one. It's a New York thing, don't start please. Anyhow I gave her a very short lesson, put a target up about ten yards down range and she took out the complete center of the target. She loved the slim grip of the Thunder Ranch and asked, how did I do?

Maxwell </div></div>
never SEEN a gun? i thought in new york you could see a mugging/shooting/murder on every other street corner. course i was in NYC ONCE a few years ago (yes, the 60's were a few years ago and i was a kid) and the doorman of a hotel asked me if we still rode stagecoaches in texas. and he was serious. Lori sounds like a keeper. still have the TR? if so, tell me how its done,
and rd. count to date etc please. any problems? </div></div>

sergeant, the round count is about 400 and the TR is about 12+ years old. It was my first 'high end' gun. I am sorry to say I don't find a down side to it if you don't count the very tight slide. It very easy to shoot and it fits my hand very well because of the slim grips. The line count on the frame is not enough to chew up your hand either.

The Trijicon sites I have noticed are not as bright as when it was new. It has never stove piped and I think I only had one FTF. Unfortunately buying the LBTR has led me to add many other 45's. Brown and Wilson also live in the toy box. If you were close I'd say, meet you at the range and I'll bring the toys. Nothing beats a personal try out.

As for Texas, I'd love to see it one day as well as many other states. It is hard for me to comprehend that much open space. Where I am it is wall to wall people. Not quite standing room only but it is getting very close. Was not like this when I was a child, I'm now 62.

Be well and get the TR. You deserve it.

Maxwell
 
Re: LES BAER?

I have shot two of the Ed Brown Kobra Carrys. Neither would even hold 5 inches at 25 yards. I understand that there could have been a bad pistol, but two in a row? The only thing it has that the others don't is the bobtail, which makes the gun a little easier to hide. Personally, I would rather have a gun that I can count on to hit where I aim it.

Some people think that such accuracy is plenty for a defensive pistol. I don't. That pistol may have to be used to shoot a housebreaker who is holding a gun to your wife's head, and giving you only half of his head to shoot at as he uses her as a shield. Possibly your last chance to see her alive again in such a case would be to put a bullet into his central nervous system, at the cranial end. If you have to take such a shot from all the way at the other end of the hall, I think you will want a gun that is as accurate as a Baer or a Nighthawk.

From what I have seen, Wilsons are just not as good. I have shot two of them as well, and neither was as accurate, and the finish wore quickly.

 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My next one will be an Ed Brown Kobra Carry in stainless.

why? tell me what it has the others don't that you like.

just half a case? maybe so, but i've got 3,000 .45acp rds. on hand w/over 1000 brass waiting, cast my own, a 650, etc etc.
thanks for the reply. good stuff! </div></div>

Les Baer guns are not considered broken in until they have surpassed 750 rounds fired through them. I'd go 1k just to be safe. That being said, I've had numerous catastrophic parts failures right before that point. These failures, while not dangerous rendered the gun completely inoperable. I'm guessing most users don't ever get to that point. Maxwell above is only at 400rnds through his TRS and thinks it's WONDERFUL still. All the problems on my guns were attributed to the same problem by Les, improper heat treatment. I've found that more than troublesome.

I'm going with stainless, because it will hold up better than bluing or any of the spray and bake finishes. For some reason, what might be an acceptable finish for a rifle doesn't work for me in a pistol. Could be that I don't stick the rifle in my waistband and sweat on it all day. Bluing flat out is garbage. The spray and bakes work great until they come in contact with something else. They also don't seem to hold up in wear points like the slide rails very long and then I'm stuck with the original metal underneath. So skipping to the finish line, It needs to be stainless. You can always spray and bake it later.

I personally don't like front cocking serrations. Have no use for them. So for me all they do is eat holsters. Take Les Baer serrations for instance. Those buggers are sharp, and delivered sharp. The front ones eat leather like a fat kid at the Chinese buffet. Pass.

Les Baer rear serrations get full of my dead skin while exfoliating my hands, really quick. Have to keep brushing them clean or they will crud up and then rust under the crud. But keep in mind, I'm getting a lot of in hands time. People who pull it out of the gun rug at the range and put it back in before packing up on the return trip to the safe at home will experience different results. So far as serrations in general, I'd prefer something less precise/exact. The same can be said for checkering. We have to remember it's only there to help with traction in weapons manipulation. I like the snakeskin-esque checkering on the Kobra Carry models. It's grippy enough in the right direction without being destructive to my clothes, or body. I like how the beaver tail feature makes it easier to conceal under tshirts and lighter weight tops. It makes a noticeable difference but I could go without and not be butt hurt about it.

Ed Brown seems to know how to put together a good 1911. They pay attention to the important details, which for me means ensuring it will run and run. And run well.

You know who made a really good 1911? Rock River Arms. Those guys really knew how to put one together. And at the price they were charging it was a deal and a half. While I haven't priced one lately, since after they stopped production, I wouldn't hesitate in picking one up. Especially to learn what you like and don't like in a 1911.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn English, then post. It's pretty easy. </div></div>
evidently its not. i come from west tex and there are thousands upon thousands of 3rd generation mexicans that can only say "lone star card" in english. </div></div>

It sounds like you're in good company, then. Your English is hardly any better than theirs.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell
sergeant, the round count is about 400 and the TR is about 12+ years old. It was my first 'high end' gun. I am sorry to say I don't find a down side to it if you don't count the very tight slide. [/quote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

You've had a gun for 12 years and only shot 400 rounds through it?

tigerhawk said:
Some people think that such accuracy is plenty for a defensive pistol. I don't. That pistol may have to be used to shoot a housebreaker who is holding a gun to your wife's head, and giving you only half of his head to shoot at as he uses her as a shield. Possibly your last chance to see her alive again in such a case would be to put a bullet into his central nervous system, at the cranial end. If you have to take such a shot from all the way at the other end of the hall, I think you will want a gun that is as accurate as a Baer or a Nighthawk.
</div></div>

If that's your plan to see your wife live to see another day, I feel sorry for her.

I wouldn't feel any more or less confident taking that shot with a pistol that shoots 1.5" at 50 yards.

If I had to take that shot, the only thing I'd want in my hand was a rifle.
Click to expand...
 
Re: LES BAER?

Downzero, it is not my plan at all. I was simply saying that it is better to have a more accurate pistol, assuming that it is reliable.

You don't have to feel sorry for my wife; I don't have one.
laugh.gif
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Learn English, then post. It's pretty easy. </div></div>
evidently its not. i come from west tex and there are thousands upon thousands of 3rd generation mexicans that can only say "lone star card" in english. </div></div> So, you are saying that you are as lazy as a 3rd generation Mexican that can't be bothered to learn the national language of the country he resides in? I'm a bit confused as to what the point is you are trying to make.. </div></div>
confusion is good. it cuases one to think, and ponder the mystery of why he would reply to such a post.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have shot two of the Ed Brown Kobra Carrys. Neither would even hold 5 inches at 25 yards. I understand that there could have been a bad pistol, but two in a row? The only thing it has that the others don't is the bobtail, which makes the gun a little easier to hide. Personally, I would rather have a gun that I can count on to hit where I aim it.

Some people think that such accuracy is plenty for a defensive pistol. I don't. That pistol may have to be used to shoot a housebreaker who is holding a gun to your wife's head, and giving you only half of his head to shoot at as he uses her as a shield. Possibly your last chance to see her alive again in such a case would be to put a bullet into his central nervous system, at the cranial end. If you have to take such a shot from all the way at the other end of the hall, I think you will want a gun that is as accurate as a Baer or a Nighthawk.

From what I have seen, Wilsons are just not as good. I have shot two of them as well, and neither was as accurate, and the finish wore quickly.

</div></div>
good logic. disappointing to hear about the ed browns though.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TRON</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Save the pain, get a Colt 1991 and send it to Yost, Novak or Morris, drink scotch and wait a year to have a true masterpiece. You wont be disappointed.

T </div></div>
that actually is sounding better and better. what price range would i be looking at for the work? the year wait i can do standing on my head. but it will be 40 creek instead of scotch. thanks.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My next one will be an Ed Brown Kobra Carry in stainless.

why? tell me what it has the others don't that you like.

just half a case? maybe so, but i've got 3,000 .45acp rds. on hand w/over 1000 brass waiting, cast my own, a 650, etc etc.
thanks for the reply. good stuff! </div></div>

Les Baer guns are not considered broken in until they have surpassed 750 rounds fired through them. I'd go 1k just to be safe. That being said, I've had numerous catastrophic parts failures right before that point. These failures, while not dangerous rendered the gun completely inoperable. I'm guessing most users don't ever get to that point. Maxwell above is only at 400rnds through his TRS and thinks it's WONDERFUL still. All the problems on my guns were attributed to the same problem by Les, improper heat treatment. I've found that more than troublesome.

I'm going with stainless, because it will hold up better than bluing or any of the spray and bake finishes. For some reason, what might be an acceptable finish for a rifle doesn't work for me in a pistol. Could be that I don't stick the rifle in my waistband and sweat on it all day. Bluing flat out is garbage. The spray and bakes work great until they come in contact with something else. They also don't seem to hold up in wear points like the slide rails very long and then I'm stuck with the original metal underneath. So skipping to the finish line, It needs to be stainless. You can always spray and bake it later.

I personally don't like front cocking serrations. Have no use for them. So for me all they do is eat holsters. Take Les Baer serrations for instance. Those buggers are sharp, and delivered sharp. The front ones eat leather like a fat kid at the Chinese buffet. Pass.

Les Baer rear serrations get full of my dead skin while exfoliating my hands, really quick. Have to keep brushing them clean or they will crud up and then rust under the crud. But keep in mind, I'm getting a lot of in hands time. People who pull it out of the gun rug at the range and put it back in before packing up on the return trip to the safe at home will experience different results. So far as serrations in general, I'd prefer something less precise/exact. The same can be said for checkering. We have to remember it's only there to help with traction in weapons manipulation. I like the snakeskin-esque checkering on the Kobra Carry models. It's grippy enough in the right direction without being destructive to my clothes, or body. I like how the beaver tail feature makes it easier to conceal under tshirts and lighter weight tops. It makes a noticeable difference but I could go without and not be butt hurt about it.

Ed Brown seems to know how to put together a good 1911. They pay attention to the important details, which for me means ensuring it will run and run. And run well.

You know who made a really good 1911? Rock River Arms. Those guys really knew how to put one together. And at the price they were charging it was a deal and a half. While I haven't priced one lately, since after they stopped production, I wouldn't hesitate in picking one up. Especially to learn what you like and don't like in a 1911. </div></div>
lots to think about. thank you.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That one made me laugh, sergeant. Thank you. </div></div>
ees ok! i mean....no problem. you are welcome sir.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maxwell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'll just add my two cents. I took Lori shooting when we first got married eleven years ago. She had never seen a a gun much less handled and shot one. It's a New York thing, don't start please. Anyhow I gave her a very short lesson, put a target up about ten yards down range and she took out the complete center of the target. She loved the slim grip of the Thunder Ranch and asked, how did I do?

Maxwell </div></div>
never SEEN a gun? i thought in new york you could see a mugging/shooting/murder on every other street corner. course i was in NYC ONCE a few years ago (yes, the 60's were a few years ago and i was a kid) and the doorman of a hotel asked me if we still rode stagecoaches in texas. and he was serious. Lori sounds like a keeper. still have the TR? if so, tell me how its done,
and rd. count to date etc please. any problems? </div></div>

sergeant, the round count is about 400 and the TR is about 12+ years old. It was my first 'high end' gun. I am sorry to say I don't find a down side to it if you don't count the very tight slide. It very easy to shoot and it fits my hand very well because of the slim grips. The line count on the frame is not enough to chew up your hand either.

The Trijicon sites I have noticed are not as bright as when it was new. It has never stove piped and I think I only had one FTF. Unfortunately buying the LBTR has led me to add many other 45's. Brown and Wilson also live in the toy box. If you were close I'd say, meet you at the range and I'll bring the toys. Nothing beats a personal try out.

As for Texas, I'd love to see it one day as well as many other states. It is hard for me to comprehend that much open space. Where I am it is wall to wall people. Not quite standing room only but it is getting very close. Was not like this when I was a child, I'm now 62.

Be well and get the TR. You deserve it.

Maxwell </div></div>
well, i'm right behind ya age wise. mine (married 38 years) had a heart transplant last april and she lost interest shooting anymore. as for the open spaces, we lived so far out in the desert i would go up on the roof to shoot bunnies/coyotes hiding behind the mesquite bushes and could see 4 states at once, texas, chihuaha, and mountain peaks in arizona and new mexico. course we loved at the foot of a big old mountain. i had the local swat team, the JDL, SO, etc using my range behind the house. i lived in the district i patrolled. now i live on 3 acres on a river. go get the rd. count to 1000 on the TR then let me know how it worked out.
 
Re: LES BAER?

seargent,

If I were making the purchase this is how I would go about things.

1. If you want a solid and reliable weapon that you may/will use for carry you will want to get proficient with it. I would save some of the extra money and get an STI or a Springfield (I have a Springfield loaded that has been smithed). STI presents one of the best values in 1911s. Period. With the money saved you will be able to shoot a lot more and maybe invest in some formal training.

2. If this is going to be a pistol that does not see too much use I would start with Caspian parts or a series 70 Colt. Get a full house build. Provided you use a competent smith you will have a pistol that shoots and looks great. It will be a true heirloom piece.

3. I personally feel that you can purchase a base pistol such as an STI or Springfield and have it worked on to your requirements based on range time. It is amazing how each person varies in the types of extras they like to see. My loaded had an ambidextrous safety from the factory. I found out later that if the pistol is going to print during carry that is where mine printed. I had a single side put on and have never had an issue shooting strong or weak hand when it comes to disengaging the safety.

Firearms are very personal things in the fact that everyone likes something a touch different than the next guy. I would strongly encourage you to get an STI or Springfield and build it up if you want a working gun. If you want something more showy go with the Series 70 or Caspian full build.

My $.02 YMMV

Josh
 
Re: LES BAER?

I took a quick read of this Thread.

Les Baer guns, like the Wilson guns of today, are 'bench made' customs. They are not assembled start-to-finish by the named 'smith. If they were a 'one-off' like the Swenson or Heinie guns of old you wouldn't wait for it and couldn't afford it when it was done. So, can we agree that both Baer and Wilson are good guns <span style="font-style: italic">when compared to the junk produced by the big factories these days.</span> The only question is whether or not they are at the correct price point for <span style="text-decoration: underline">you</span>.

I know Les: I shot IPSC with him in the 80's. In my opinion it's true that when you call the shop he will speak with you, and it's also true that he has his opinions and is quick to point out a lot of things. Talk to him. Don't give-up. He has a hard job to do, and although I can't speak for him perhaps he feels that he needs to know that you understand what you are talking about before he suggests a workable solution for you.

Unlike the 'one-off' customs, any benchmade pistol has the potential to be less than perfect when it arrives. I have an early model Premier II. It shot waaaay to the left like Mas Ayoob's later test gun did. I called Les and sent it back. He fixed it, sort of. But I'll take it because that gun is the most accurate .45 I own. I also have a Stinger. When it arrived there were a few very minor issues with it. I sent it back. Les fixed it. So, both of them went back and forth after I got them, but both are fine now. And both are fantastic pistols: Accurate and reliable at a price that can't be beat.

BTW, the 1.5" guarantee all comes down to barrel selection.
 
Re: LES BAER?

GRAHAM...
JOSH.....

THANKS. i am currently leaning that way, real fast. after getting an STI or SPRINGER, what would i expect to spend, ballpark, to get them to run properly?
 
Re: LES BAER?

Most will run right out of the box. It's the little added things you will find that you want through shooting it. They can include:

Front strap checkering
Different type thumb safety
Sights
Trigger job
Cosmetic changes
etc

Seriously, if you are looking for a working pistol as it sounds like you are, get the STI or Springer, shoot them and figure out what work you want done to it. If you do get a Springer you can send it to the Springfield Custom Shop for work. They had 3 members of the pistolsmiths guild on staff at one time, not sure if that is current.

The STIs have a great track record. I don't have one, but I have shot them. Quality pistols and they are built in the USA. My Springer ran right out of the box but there is bound to be a turd every now and again.

Josh
 
Re: LES BAER?

BachelorJack,the things you learn here on the Hide. I'll keep in mind the round count that you mentioned. I will just add one point, here in Jersey you will NEVER get to know what will happen with your carry gun.

Thanks for the info.

Maxwell
 
Re: LES BAER?

i went to the STI site and while i am not too impressed w/their site (red printing on black is hard to read) i AM impressed w/their guns and the reviews i read so far. but...it says the custom shop is closed. hope that will change. i really now am almost convinced to go this route. brands, looks, etc mean shit to me. all i want is function, and fit. period. so, to EVERYONE that helped me down this road, THANK YOU. man did i learn a LOT. lots of preconcieved notions shot to hell. and thats a good thing.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tigerhawk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Downzero, it is not my plan at all. I was simply saying that it is better to have a more accurate pistol, assuming that it is reliable.</div></div>

Mechanical accuracy is as close to irrelevant as is possible for that use.

If accuracy were even anywhere near a primary consideration, I suspect that what you'd see in most cops' holsters would NOT be the kinds of firearms that are popular with law enforcement, and they sure as hell wouldn't have the factory, "one size fits all" barrels installed.

Reliable or not, mechanical accuracy just doesn't add much to a fighting pistol. I know many others feel otherwise, but I am totally indifferent between a pistol that shoots 6" at 50 yards and one that shoots 2" at 50 yards. I don't care if it has that capability, because I know I don't--and I shoot over 10,000 centerfire rounds a year.
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You know who made a really good 1911? Rock River Arms. Those guys really knew how to put one together. And at the price they were charging it was a deal and a half. While I haven't priced one lately, since after they stopped production, I wouldn't hesitate in picking one up. Especially to learn what you like and don't like in a 1911. </div></div>


+ 1


Good luck
 
Re: LES BAER?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sergeant69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i went to the STI site and while i am not too impressed w/their site (red printing on black is hard to read) i AM impressed w/their guns and the reviews i read so far. but...it says the custom shop is closed. hope that will change. i really now am almost convinced to go this route. brands, looks, etc mean shit to me. all i want is function, and fit. period. so, to EVERYONE that helped me down this road, THANK YOU. man did i learn a LOT. lots of preconcieved notions shot to hell. and thats a good thing. </div></div>

Dude just go to the gun store and buy a pistol. If what you really want is a full custom, hand-fitted, perfectly reliable pistol, it needs to come from a single gunsmith, not from anywhere that has a trademark after its name.

Unless there's a reputable person in this world who will personally sign his name to your pistol, one is generally just as good as another. Rollmarks, serial numbers, commentary about fit, etc., are just that. Results are on the target and in the function of the pistol.

Find a gunsmith that you can trust and tell him to build something that runs and keep it well-maintained. It ain't rocket science.

If that something is a 1911, it's a little tougher, but a well-fitted 1911, even a production one, will probably outlast you.

Mine are still going strong with nothing but refinishing and springs...and I shoot a lot of rounds.

YMMV.
 
Re: LES BAER?

After owning a Les Baer Supertac, I don't think I can ever own a non-custom 1911.

They are that good...


I had a Springfield TRP and Kimber that were head and shoulders below in function (and price).

This is all IMHO. I know plenty of people who love the Kimbers and Springfields.
 
Re: LES BAER?

Here's my rotarded input:

I've put at least 50,000 rounds through my LB premier II with the 1.5" guarantee. The extractor broke, other than that its been perfect.

Baer makes good stuff.

Someone said earlier that a good gun won't make you a better shooter. That MAY be true, but at a certain point of proficiency THE RESULTS are better with a better gun. Arguably even a beginner will get better results with a Baer.
 
Re: LES BAER?

Ever consider a SA Professional model? Have tens of thousandss of rounds thru them. Great guns. Come from the Springfield custom shop. Congrats on your pending retirement.
 
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