Let that be a lesson to you,

[Sean the Nailer]

Short version:
I received these handloaded rounds from an individual just over 10 years ago. No, I cannot contact him. These were his loads, for his firearms. He loaded these between '93 and '97. Somewhere in there.

So me being 'careful', I (today) start to pull the bullets with the intent of re-charging the cases with my powder load and then re-use the bullets accordingly. Let me just say that prudence prevails, and I'm more comfortable with MY OWN handloads, than 'generic others'.

We start to notice this accumulation of a yellowish powder.

I then move the tray, to find this below it. (These are the cases which have been 'pulled' already)

I'm wondering what the heck this stuff is???? I've never seen this before. The powder itself that is coming out seems to be pristine flake powder. We then notice that my hand is all yellow too. Like somebody went and drew on it with a highlighter.

My wife is now 'commenting' on what she is feeling. She is the one who has been doing this for a while, whilst I have been doing a few other things. She wanted a break, so I came in and took over from her, and that is when this was noticed. This is her first time pulling handgun bullets, so she didn't know something was amiss. She's only done her rifle bullets before.

From breathing it, her tongue is all "buzzy/tingly" and tastes of metal.

Before she said anything about her tongue and taste, I had scraped up some of this brass colored powder onto a piece of paper. Then lit it on fire. When the flame got to the powder, it crackled and fizzled, with a hardly detectable increase in flame. Sure sounded "snappy" though. Very snappy.

I've washed well, 3 times with 2 different soaps... and the yellow isn't coming off at the moment.

Now we ain't about to call for the amberlamps right away, but exactly how concerned should we be? Anyone ever seen anything like this?

I've been doing this for just over 26 years, and it's a first for me. My Lady isn't panicking or anything, but she too does think this is weird.

 

[vman]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

I have no idea but I am sure as hell curious to find out.

The only thing i can think of right now that yellows like that is Iodine, but why the hell would that be in bullets?

I cant make out, are they rifle, pistol or shotshells?

Is this happening from contacting an in-tact bullet or can it be pin-pointed to whats inside the cases?

 

[STP]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Appears to be primer residue...good thing you pulled those. De-cap and start from scratch.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

The stuff must be some nitrogenous compound. The nitro-glycerine they use for dynamite is used for dilating blood vessels when you have angina. In healthy persons the use of nitro-glycerine will give symptoms such as you describe. Additionally, nitro doesn't usually explode unless violently abused. Burning it won't detonate it as a rule. My dad used to tell of miners breaking a stick in half and lighting the exposed end to use as a candle. In fact that is where they found the use of nitro as a cardiac/smooth muscle dilator...miners with angina on the surface would get relief from chest pain when going down to where dynamite had been used. A lot of pistol, and some rifle powders are "double base" powders, meaning that there is more than one active ingredient in the granules...nitrocellulose is the usual single base and they add nitroglycerine as the double base agent to increase strength. I would surmise that you have a double base pistol powder that is decomposing and the yellowish agent is the nitro-glycerine component. Dump the powder in the garden. Your plants will love it. JMHO

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The stuff must be some nitrogenous compound. The nitro-glycerine they use for dynamite is used for dilating blood vessels when you have angina. In healthy persons the use of nitro-glycerine will give symptoms such as you describe. Additionally, nitro doesn't usually explode unless violently abused. Burning it won't detonate it as a rule. My dad used to tell of miners breaking a stick in half and lighting the exposed end to use as a candle. In fact that is where they found the use of nitro as a cardiac/smooth muscle dilator...miners with angina on the surface would get relief from chest pain when going down to where dynamite had been used. A lot of pistol, and some rifle powders are "double base" powders, meaning that there is more than one active ingredient in the granules...nitrocellulose is the usual single base and they add nitroglycerine as the double base agent to increase strength. I would surmise that you have a double base pistol powder that is decomposing and the yellowish agent is the nitro-glycerine component. Dump the powder in the garden. Your plants will love it. JMHO </div></div>

+1...

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

To follow up with this, here is what we have found.

With thanks to Salmonaxe, he led us to deducing the problem. As stated, the powder appears to be "pristine". And yes, FNP, powder decay and/or nitro breakdown was my first thought as well.

The bullet too is pristine. No corrosion apparent in any way.

Same goes for the inside of the brass. All appears to be well and clean.

Except for this powder. Somewhat crystalline powder.

Lead Styphenate.

http://www.recguns.com/Sources/XIIIA5b.html

That is just one of the many sites and links to which we were offered. The short version of that, is while pulling the bullets (with a homemade kinetic bullet puller) the primer composition was shattering and coming out of the flash hole.

It's been suggested to "scrape it all into a pile and whack it with a hammer".

You first.

This is where we are so far, and just letting ya'll know. Anyone have anything to add? The floor is yours,,,,

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Ya'll just type too fast. HA

Steven Dzupin, that is what we've learned so far too. Thanks.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Glad you found it out...that is what I don't like about kinetic pullers. But...if the bullet is too short, you haven't many other options.I did find that the edge of the collet on the Forster puller is sharp enough to allow me to pull .40 cal pistol bullets. FNP

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Here is the other page I meant to put up there. There are many more, but we thought this one was somewhat pertinent.

http://www.powerlabs.org/chemlabs/lead_styphnate.htm

So, we hope this helps ya'll, and that everyone who reads this will know more of what to watch out for.

Remember this: you only have one You, so look after it.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Dibs on your guns, ammo and reloading shit.


Thanks in advance, Chris

 

[Pirate-69]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

I saw some pictures on another Forum that showed the same yellow-orange stuff. It was old powder that had been stored where some moisture could get to it and it was going bad.

 

[bfoosh006]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Glad you figured this out before a catastrophe...to bad we don't know what brand primers.

 

[fcordrey]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Glad you found out what it is and didn't need the amberlamps !

Your primers ................they leakin' yo .

 

[mavrick]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Thats weird but I know Nitric Acid is used to make some gun powders and other things that go "boom" it sure as shit will turn your hands yellow but it will burn a little and not wash off, The skin will just die and peel off.

Dustin

 

[PistonPete]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Sean,thank you for this info, i just happen to have some .357 Mag. ammo i loaded 40 years ago, i am going to pull some bullets to check for the condition you reported on.

the loads i will be pulling are 158 gr. hard cast w/gas chk., 2400 powder, CCI small pistol, some others will have Bullseye, Unique, and Blue Dot.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: Let that be a lesson to you,

Mavrick, and others... As I tried to explain previous, the powder that came out of the cases was in pristine condition. It showed no signs of deterioration at all.

Pete, if you loaded them, then go shoot them. I for one would not suggest to anyone to create a hazard unnecessarily. Best we can figure here, is that the primers "shattered" and the compound sifted out during the bullet-pulling. Key point there, is the steel puller that was being used. No "cushioning" at all. The primers likely bore the brunt of the reverberations/vibrations/shock (?) from the impact.

Don't create an issue if there ain't one.