If you are effected by this please file a complaint. Use the link below for the KS State Attorney General:
https://ag.ks.gov/complaint-center/consumer
https://ag.ks.gov/complaint-center/consumer
Suppressors Leviathan Suppressor... any experience?
- Thread starter southerngolfer
- Start date
Update - asked someone in the know (maybe he'll comment after with more info), but it sounds like the ATF has given Leviathan a deadline to pay every one back, if this deadline is not meet, federal charges will proceed.
While that would be nice, I don’t think the ATF has the authority to do that or enforce such a deadline. Monetary restitution would have to come in the form of a court Order I thought. Maybe someone can educate me.
The fact he owes money would need to be dealt with in civil court, and the ATF can't force him to pay. If a crime did occur, they may have some flexibility on how hard they are on him and when charges are pressed. Perhaps if Chris can show that he's made everyone whole again, they will offer some leniency.
I don't see ATF giving a damn about the money owed, it's not their job. If he filed form 2's and doesn't have them made, that should be a violation. If he filed form 3's and did not make them, or ship them, that digs the hole a bit deeper. If ATF is involved, they may string it out. The fines begin when the infraction occurred, the penalties just keep growing as the time goes by. They love penaltie$.
Thats how I read that. Sounds like he has broken one or more laws but the BATFE will work with him IF he shows good faith in returning monies owed to individuals. Good PR move on BATFE part, if true.
I received a PayPal echeck payment from Chris today. Friend received his a actual funds, not echeck. I’ll be waiting for mine to clear.
I just got my refund too via PayPal
Wow, awesome news guys! Now go buy a Thunder Beast ......
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I was wondering if people could give a little background on how they are getting money back.
Are you getting 100%, or 50% refunds back?
Are the people who are getting refunds people who earlier requested a cancellation or had a Form 3 processed, and approved without any suppressor being manufactured?
How were you able to get contact with Chris Adolphson?
I just can't get any contact with Leviathan. At this rate I have $1,145 stolen from me.
Are you getting 100%, or 50% refunds back?
Are the people who are getting refunds people who earlier requested a cancellation or had a Form 3 processed, and approved without any suppressor being manufactured?
How were you able to get contact with Chris Adolphson?
I just can't get any contact with Leviathan. At this rate I have $1,145 stolen from me.
That's bs. Fraud claims aren't dischargeable in bankruptcy. Not to mention quite a few state consumer protection statutes allow you to go after the owner of the business personally.
Really? Very few states allow you to garnish wages. And the courts don't collect the judgment, you, the plaintiff (or your attorney), have to do it. And why is forcing Leviathan into bankruptcy the endgame?
I can't speak for other states than, I apologize.
Only speaking for my state of Oregon.
And forcing someone Into bankruptcy is a shitty thing. But also taking (stealing) money from people for a product that you don't produce is even shittier.
I truly hope that, bankruptcy isn't the end game, hopefully he can make good on the refunds from the people who were wronged.
I have no skin in this game I was just trying to be helpful to the people who have been screwed over by this guy.
I don’t know who’s getting refunds specifically or how he is selecting who gets what. I had a 50% cert and paid the other 50% back in October of 2018. That’s all I can tell you regarding my situation.
Glad some people are seeing refunds. I am just passing along info I received. How it all works or will work legally.. hell if i know. Hopefully everyone gets their money back in a timely manner.
Has anyone received a refund that has cleared and is no longer in pending status? What is the type of transaction that is being used for the repayment?... like what's it listed as?
I'm very confused as to why the refunds are going through Paypal because their policy is not gun friendly and clearly states that: https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp...-on-transactions-that-involve-firearms-faq585
I would think since the money wasn't collected via paypal, then it wouldn't be such an issue. But it's odd that the refunds aren't being repaid in the same manner in which payments were collected.
I'm very confused as to why the refunds are going through Paypal because their policy is not gun friendly and clearly states that: https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp...-on-transactions-that-involve-firearms-faq585
I would think since the money wasn't collected via paypal, then it wouldn't be such an issue. But it's odd that the refunds aren't being repaid in the same manner in which payments were collected.
Most merchant accounts only allow straight refunds for a set time. Also he may have lost his merchant account with all the issues here. No matter how you get your money consider yourself lucky. That said PP, likes to dick around on e-checks. I have the option of switching that off on my business account, which I did, because they always take time to clear.
So in short it sounds like a normal delay.
The real question is, is PP taking out fees or is he sending these “Friends and family”? I hope the latter......
What surprises me the most .... is why he isn’t pulling a ball and chain around while wearing black and white stripes.
Probably doing it via lottery. Chances are, you lost. It's really too bad it had to come to this.
He is now moving to blaming suppliers, which may or may not be true. The fact remains, had he simply been honest and forthcoming with folks, this would have been MUCH less of an epic ordeal for everyone involved......
Got my refund so in good faith I took down my meme.
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Great news man! Did you decide on another can?
My advice to folks in this thread owed money, squawk the loudest. The patient and quiet will likely be last or never refunded.......
I’ve called Chris twice since the 30th and left messages. No response.
I’m glad you got your refund man!
I’m glad you got your refund man!
FYI- The article has been updated after Clint, from William's Gun Works, reached out with info about the machine shop being blamed and the ATF involvement.
Just to show how “confused” he is, I sent Chris a thank you after receiving my refund. I figured I’d end this debacle on a good note and leave it at that. Only thing I added was a friends name who hadn’t received a refund. This is the response I got.
Apparently I wronged him somehow by letting him hold my money for roughly 7 months....
Apparently I wronged him somehow by letting him hold my money for roughly 7 months....
Attachments
While legally speaking this is true, it’s also well within the ATF (or any law enforcement that has jurisdiction) to say “hey man, so, I see some things that are reallly concerning. If I keep getting calls after such and such date, I’m gonna put you under a microscope and see what I can find.”
Sometimes when consumer’s money is concerned, it’s better to pressure them to pay back than it is to toss them in jail where the consumer’s money goes into a black hole.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I feel for those who have not only coughed up hard earned money, but wasted all this timing waiting for something that will never come.
Another tacticalrifles.net type of business.
Good luck to those involved!
Another tacticalrifles.net type of business.
Good luck to those involved!
I'm glad (some) people are (slowly) getting refunds. Sadly, this won't be the last time someone ran an undercapitalized business and stiffed their customers.
I hadn’t gotten any phone response from Chris so I emailed him today. He responded and sent money today through PayPal. It hasn’t cleared yet and he only sent enough to cover the cost of the suppressor, nothing for dealer fees. Still, it’s better then nothing and I’m thankful to get it.
also posted on the other thread:
I received my refund. I used a personal approach and didn't jump in his shit. I also turned it over the my credit card fraud department. Not sure which worked.
It is a messed up situation, but there are worse things in life to deal with. Chris has to restore his reputation now. I would hate to have to do that, because I have spent a life time creating a good one.
Sad thing, it was a good product from what I saw.
That said, if you live near Maryland come out and shoot our benefit match..... Its super chill and goes to a good cause.
https://practiscore.com/mayberry-nwlb-benifit/register
I received my refund. I used a personal approach and didn't jump in his shit. I also turned it over the my credit card fraud department. Not sure which worked.
It is a messed up situation, but there are worse things in life to deal with. Chris has to restore his reputation now. I would hate to have to do that, because I have spent a life time creating a good one.
Sad thing, it was a good product from what I saw.
That said, if you live near Maryland come out and shoot our benefit match..... Its super chill and goes to a good cause.
https://practiscore.com/mayberry-nwlb-benifit/register
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My refund posted today. So glad this ordeal is over for me, and I hope others have similar results. Such a shame it went down like this. I really enjoyed shooting thru the product he “offered” and was excited to get it.
My refund posted as well. Just had a couple of very civilized conversations over email and he did the right thing at the end of the day. I understand that others may not be as fortunate but small business can be tough. Treat your customers right with a high quality product, communicate well and then deliver. Easier said than done, but I like people that are willing to take chances and try new business models, but unfortunately this one does not have a happy ending for Chris or his customers.
This sucks for Chris. I was liking his product but unfortunately looked like his manufacturing backlog was his detrimental downfall.
It doesn’t suck for Chris. It sucks for the people that wanted to give him a shot as a small, up and coming business by giving him their money. He intentionally defrauded people and is only repaying because that’s his only saving grace at the moment. He made it right, but I have zero sympathy for him.
Yes, I think I would feel the same way if I had paid and not received a product. I’m just an outside bystander reading this thread I started
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