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Loads for .308 AR?

P

pepperbelly

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Aug 7, 2006
871
0
Fort Worth, Texas
I recently traded for a really nice DPMS SASS. It has a lot of upgrades and there's really not much I think I need to change.
I do need to load for it. Are loads for bolt rifles safe in a gas gun. or is there something like in my Garand that I need to be aware of?
Are they temperamental about powders, or are Varget and RL-15 still good choices?
It has a 1 in 10" twist rate so i am going to use the .175gr SMKs I have on hand.
Do these rifles chew brass much? If so i really need to stock up.

I'll get pics up soon but it came to me with a PRI tube, a Primary Arms comp, YHM bipod block, Magpul ACT stock, Timney trigger and the upgraded stainless bolt. I put my swiveling Harris 6"-9" bipod on and mounted my Vortex Viper on an LT-104 I had.
My Savage just never really grabbed me, but this does. I think I will really like it. I do need to develop a load for it.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I am not really looking for specific load data, just a general idea. I don't know if there's much difference with a semi-auto rifle.

Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Unless you're one of those people who runs overpressure loads in every single one of his bolt guns you should be fine.

Start around 42 varget and work up, pressure signs will be ejector swipe on the case heads. A good duplicate of M118LR for me was 43 varget, LC brass cci primer. Just keep your loads at moderate levels and enjoy your rifle.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

+1 on the moderate loads... I have a Noveske N6 18" and usually shoot the 175s in my bolt guns, Well 45gr of Varget in the bolt gun is a sweet load... On the N6.. chews the shit out of the brass and ejector swipes on every round. Including factory ammo. Looking for an adjustable gas block to regulate that a little more.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

You don't have to develop a load for a 308 semi-automatic rifle. If it won't shoot 40 grains of IMR 4895 and a 168 smk in Lake City brass, you gotta gun problem.
wink.gif


I grew up loading with a guy who shot on the AMU. The only 308 load we ever loaded for semis was the one above. Its all they ever used because it worked best.

See; www.Zediker.com "Loading for the M14".

For example:

The staple M14 bullet was (still is, in a way)
the Sierra® #2200. This 168gr bullet is the
first to try: if this bullet doesn’t shoot in
your rifle, the weapon is cursed. More than
I know anything else in life, stick 41.5gr
H4895 in an IMI® case with a CCI® BR2™
primer and cap it with a #2200 to 2.800
inches oal. Done and done. Then go messing
around with “better” bullets now that you
have a sure thing to return to.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

A good M1A load does not necessarily make a good AR10 load. IMO 40 grains of 4895 and a 168 will leave ALOT on the table with an AR10.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

They different but they're the same too. M1A loads are a good place to start. And safe for a novice.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Casey-- BTW- Happy Birthday!! (I could die a happy man if I could get 3000 out of an AR10!!!)
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I am not a novice and do not like max loads. It has been my experience that I get my best accuracy slightly under a max load, then accuracy drops when approaching the max.
I mainly wanted to know if there was anything different I needed to know about a semi-auto .308 versus a bolt action .308. In my Garand I have to be careful about gas pressure or I will bend my op-rod.
If there isn't anything like that I will just go by the loads listed here and in my books.
And, yes, I do need to develop a load for this rifle. Every rifle is different and I need to see what this one likes.

Thanks,
Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I ran into a guy at my range about a month ago shooting an SASS. He couldn't quite get it to shoot like he thought it should. I felt bad for him so offered to let him try some of my handloads and gave him ten rounds. His rifle appeared to function properly with a good ejection pattern and no unwanted marks on the brass. They were a load out of the Sierra manual. 168gr SMK over 42gr RL15. I find the load a bit on the mild side, but it worked in his rifle and shot well.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Thanks. Having a load too light to operate the action is one concern. I will keep that it mind.
I have some Varget and some RL-15 on hand, along with too many more to list. I will concentrate on those.

Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe you shouldn't use anything slower than IMR 4064 in a gas gun. </div></div>

That is the advice I was looking for. Without me having to pull up a burn rate chart where does RL-15 and Varget stand against 4064? Faster, slower or about the same?

Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fngmike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I believe you shouldn't use anything slower than IMR 4064 in a gas gun. </div></div>

Garand or M1A yes, AR no. AR has no op rod to break. If it's a powder that works well in 308, it'll work in your AR. So go load up a few rounds and have fun.

RL15, varget, 4064 all pretty close. Check against a loading book & the respective manufacturer's site to make sure.






 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

On a side issue

DPMS drills a heck of a big gas port.

With the gas port so large use a adjustable gas block and you will see a huge diff in the wear marks on the brass from factory to handloads.

On 16" and 18" I like W748 with a 155 Nosler right now.

John
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

But an AR has a cam pin and some little lugs to bend, break and peen. Go easy.

Oh, Pepperbelly, I shouldn't have referred to novice. my bad; I overlooked your Garand experience. I have one too and love it.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But an AR has a cam pin and some little lugs to bend, break and peen. Go easy.

Oh, Pepperbelly, I shouldn't have referred to novice. my bad; I overlooked your Garand experience. I have one too and love it. </div></div>

No sweat. I load for 30-06, .308 in a bolt rifle, 7.5x55, 6.5x55 and .45acp.
I wanted to be sure there wasn't anything in particular about the AR semi-auto similar to the M1 and M1A.
I will be loading target ammo using 175gr SMKs and won't be approaching a max load- no use for it.

I guess I want to be sure a published load would be safe in this rifle without having something else to be aware of like an op-rod. And, yes, I do know it doesn't have an op-rod.

Jim
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Just shot my pet load today at 400yds about 3.5 with one flyer to 4", 44grs varget 168 SMK col 2.800. It is a little warm but not bad in my 16" dpms. I use rem cases for this load and cci mag primer.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: showlow50</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just shot my pet load today at 400yds about 3.5 with one flyer to 4", 44grs varget 168 SMK col 2.800. It is a little warm but not bad in my 16" dpms. I use rem cases for this load and cci mag primer.</div></div>

CCI mag primers? As in large rifle Magnum primers?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Varget is great and is all I use in my ArmaLite. Clean burning and very consistent with great velocity and accuracy.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

If you really are using mag primers you should stop....like yesterday. They will cause big time pressure spikes. If anything you should goto palma brass and a small rifle primer. Be careful with that!
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

mag primers are just that. If they where on par with regular primers as you say...then we are all getting fleeced. I am by no means a primer expert...but here is my humble attemp. A mag primer throws a hotter and bigger "spark". A mag primer has to effectively ignite more powder in a longershell. So a mag primer in a shorter case will try to ignite too much powder at one time and increase the pressure. You can see pressure spikes in mag cases by: take a long cartridge that you can't fill up all the way and lay the shell down and shake it a little. Then chamber and fire it. Then take another of the same and hold it upright. Then fire it more at a angle..so the powerd don't lay down in the case. There is a noticable difference in pressure. Instead of igniting a long skinny tube of powder you are igniting across the top of the powder. This is why the advent of the short and super short mags are so popular..or br \ppc cartriges. Igniting a wide short tube of powder is more efficient. It all has to do with the way the powder is ignited. Besides....if mag primers are the way to go...why the invent of the 308 palma?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

shooting a lr308 with a 24" my load is 155 smk palmas win brass with 45.5 of RL 15 shoots as well as some bolt guns ive seen
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Bcp: after re-reading your post...yes to a point you are correct. There are some primers between brands that are hotter than others. Yet they are all regulated by saami..I believe. They set standards and a reg primer can't exceed a reg primer standard. I am sure some mfg load higher and some lower than others. Yet a mag is still a mag..no matter what brand.


Grmroper: what is the twist of your barrel? What velocity and groups are you gettin?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I'm at about 2770, I am not pushing it hard. I could get amore out of it but that velocity works well with the zeizz reticle Twist is a 1-10. I'm not a great shot by any means but I have shot several groups under 1/2" at 100 yards
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bcp: after re-reading your post...yes to a point you are correct. There are some primers between brands that are hotter than others. Yet they are all regulated by saami..I believe. They set standards and a reg primer can't exceed a reg primer standard. I am sure some mfg load higher and some lower than others. Yet a mag is still a mag..no matter what brand.


Grmroper: what is the twist of your barrel? What velocity and groups are you gettin?
</div></div>
Not trying to sound like a ass because I really do care and this is a subject of interest to me. Do you have any data on a/b test with mag//regular primers? Rifle or pistol?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

While working up loads for a M1A and LMT I found a load in the reloading section that was said to be a duplicate for M118LR which the military uses in semi autos. The load is 175 SMK with 43.1 grains of RL15 in LC brass with Fed Match primers with a COL of 2.81. I pulled the bullets on three rounds of M118LR and weighted the powder. All were right at 43.1 grains. The powder was a little darker and I'm told this is a flash suppresent. I mixed the reloads with the real thing and it hung into the same sub moa group. This is now my standard load for semiauto 7.62 rifles.
[img

Uploaded with ImageShack.usimg]
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I have a DPMS SASS, currently shooting SMK 168 with IMR 4064 at 43.4 gr - works great. They leave distinctive marks on the case, rim and neck - nothing that can not be solved/corrected by full size die. I have brass with 8 reloads through the DPMS SASS, no issues so far.

Redding Ultra Mag
Redding Competition Dies
RCBS ChargeMaster
Winchester Brass, Federal 210 Primers or CCI BR-2
Giraud Case Trimmer
Redding Taper Crimp Die
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneswithfunes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter19802003</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bcp: after re-reading your post...yes to a point you are correct. There are some primers between brands that are hotter than others. Yet they are all regulated by saami..I believe. They set standards and a reg primer can't exceed a reg primer standard. I am sure some mfg load higher and some lower than others. Yet a mag is still a mag..no matter what brand.


Grmroper: what is the twist of your barrel? What velocity and groups are you gettin?
</div></div>
Not trying to sound like a ass because I really do care and this is a subject of interest to me. Do you have any data on a/b test with mag//regular primers? Rifle or pistol?</div></div>

Just google rifle primer test (or similar)(saami primer test). You will get alot of results from magazines and blogs and such. As far as "scientific data"....not really nothing I would consider to be such. Mostly just what people have observed while using them. So, take it for what you will. If you notice in manuals, they use a specific primer for load work ups. Use a diferent primer and the pressure will go up or down from what they say....if you have a strain tester or similar to test it. Like I said, mostly observations though.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

43.0gr Varget 175srmk winchester brass, CCI-200lr primer, Full length resized and 2.800" COAL. Very good load... But Varget is hard to find sometimes also IMR4064 and in the middle of both is IMR 4320 which is every where. I found with my gas guns that 42-44 grains is about right for tight groups from a 20" barrel. You don't need near max loads.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I would have more issue using Match primers than Magnum primers in any semi. The match primers are too soft and can and will cause slam fires. If you work up you loads using magnum primers you are fine. Win.primers can be used for either standard or mag.(they only make 1 type that cover both apps.) if you work them up as you should. In fact for ball powders or cold weather mag primers are the better choice.Match primers are for MATCH bolt guns. And have no place in a semi auto field weapon.In fact they have shown the only advantage in using match primers is in the mind of the operator.
Scot
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

FWIW my best loads for my sass have been:

178 amax 1x mixed LC brass 42.5 ~2.8 COAL 2466FPS
178 amax 1x win brass 43.5 2.78 COAL 2483FPS
178 amax NEW win brass 43.8 2.78 COAL 2480FPS
175 SMK 1x win brass 44 2.81 COAL 2500FPS
175 SMK 1X win brass 42 2.78 COAL 2400FPS
175 SMK 1X mixed LC brass 42.8 2.82 COAL (friend's load, shot decent enough)

Summertime it was a little faster FPS but not much, maybe 20? My chrono is also a POS so I do not take it as gospel.

Varget and CCI LR primers for everything. The second load on that list is the one I use the most. Also, this lot of varget is faster than the last I had so if you have a slow lot you may need to add .5 grain or so. Overall, I have found that the 178 amax and 175 SMK seem to work better for me at 2.78 COAL and the AMAX has been more consistent than the SMK. 2.82 did not feed out of my dpms mags but feeds fine with cproducts.

 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

Will the loads with a COL of 2.78-2.82 work in a LWRC REPR?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kwak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Will the loads with a COL of 2.78-2.82 work in a LWRC REPR? </div></div>

Why wouldn't they?
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I accidentally stumbled on a great load in my Armalite A4;

44.5 grains of Varget
168 gr Nosler hpbt
BR2, gm210m or WLR primer,
Win, Horn match or BHA cases
2.820 COAL

I had loaded them up for my bolt guns and just for shits and giggles ran a mag of them at 100 yards. This is not a heavy barrel AR10 variant yet the 5 shot groups were all under 1 moa: well below the 1.5 -2 MOA as claimed by Armalite.

No signs of adverse pressure or damage to the brass.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

I am just starting to load for this gun and that is why I asked. I am trying to get reliable info to start this process. Thanks
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

175 SMK
RL-15 43 Gr
Lapua Brass
Mag length
2728 FPS 20" 1:10 twist
80 Degrees 1000'
And, yes, it will eat your brass without an adjustable gas system.
 
Re: Loads for .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A.O.R.G.S-Hassey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone have velocities with there load? Or is it a ?? </div></div>

ArmaLite AR10A4
Noveske 21" barrel

Winchester cases
COAL 2.842"
155gr Lapua Scenar
47gr Varget
CCI BR2

2831fps
 
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