My son is going to shoot his great grandfather's 1897 in the pump gun event at this years NSCA national tournament. Full choke barrel. The ref shouldn't have any doubt about chips vs 'heavy dust...'
- Thread starter smoooth1
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A good lever gun can put bullets downrange fast. Big bullets score high on the KO factor.
It was a generic reference to shooting fast and close in targets, which appears to have happened to CAS from where it was, bit like the change in PR’ rifle comps, 20 years ago it was about the shooter, now it’s about the gear (the barricade benchrest analogy).
I only now look from the outside at practical, I believe IDPA has gone the same was, or so I’ve been told, re ethos.
Nowt against IPSC but shiny shirts and extreme messed around guns are not for me, can see the appeal for some.
No slight intended.
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A couple of months ago i picked up a new in the box winchester 45 colt at a show to go along with my 2 colts in 45. the old cowboy way carry all the same ammo. now im ready for when we start riding horses again and i can do it in style.
Cast it. I've done a lot of 45-70 and 45LC. Garages, moving away from lead, will often give you lead wheel weights for free.
Not sure you save much $$ by the time you buy all the crap to do it, but it is satisfying.
Suit yourself if that's what you think IPSC is. You are, however, wrong.
If you're one of those who thinks practical pistol competition should be like a gunfight, you're right this isn't for you.
If you want to maximize handgun practical shooting (not tactical) skills, then you should set your erroneous ideas about what the sport is or isn't and step up to the plate.
I am confident 100% of us here could not do that.
I believe the fast lever shooter is a modified gun that trips the trigger when the lever is closed. Thats how Chuck Connors rifle was modified in the show.
I love my Puma model 92 in .357 mag has the heavy hex long barrel and is very accurate.
I believe that applies to practically all uses of the word "tactical".
Learning from BuffaloWinter or his wife would be an experience, too.
Just 'sayin.
SIrhr
You see her clear that failure to eject? That's some Delta-level skill right there...
Cheers,
Sirhr
- Nov 3, 2010
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Most tactical thing I've done with a lever gun was shoot a deer in the head on the run at 15 yds
ETA: Hornady FTX out of a 45-70
ETA: Hornady FTX out of a 45-70
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Only time I've followed a bone fragment trail instead of a blood trail
I love this show.
It’s usually on at 5 and 6 on Saturday mornings so I get to watch before the rest of the house gets up.
Chris Costa is just trying to find a new market space since all these devgru dudes are out doing training now. Kinda hard to sell your training when the door kickers are retired and looking for new work.
You guys give the feds way too much credit for work they haven’t been able to do. I guess fear based politics works.
You guys give the feds way too much credit for work they haven’t been able to do. I guess fear based politics works.
Always liked my 94 30-30, points pretty quick and inside of 150yrds it’ll rock most anything’s world, even for in home they don’t over penetrate and dump lots of energy on target
kudos to the kid. obviously, he has put in some time.
as far as costa.....i dont care for him. can't tell you exactly why, there is just something about him that rubs me wrong. maybe it is because he tries too hard, or (especially in this case) he is trying to be a subject matter expert of what? idk...there is something about him i just dont like.
levers are great....the ORIGINAL assault weapon. that being said, modifying them and putting all kinds of shit on them ruins their strong points. a lever gun is refered to as a brush gun, NOT because of brush busting abilities as most think, but how easy they are to handle when moving through thick shit. that is, unless you have stuff bolted onto them. anything more than a peep sight fucks them up.
357's strong point is the ability to carry a lot of ammo at a reduced weight. 44 is a fucking smasher, but carrying lots of rounds gets heavy fast. same same for the 45 colt. 444 and 45-70 are powerhouses, but the same goes for ammo. 30-30 extends the range some, and the 35 remington does the same AND brings the SMACKDOWN! i am waiting for ruger to release the 357 1894.
another advantage that most people don't realize is how quiet they are. i shot a deer a few years back, and another guy 200 yards away never even heard me shoot; he thought i was lying.
this is the aftermath of a 44 260 grain cast bullet about about 1100 fps. a relatively mild load, on my end at least.
as far as costa.....i dont care for him. can't tell you exactly why, there is just something about him that rubs me wrong. maybe it is because he tries too hard, or (especially in this case) he is trying to be a subject matter expert of what? idk...there is something about him i just dont like.
levers are great....the ORIGINAL assault weapon. that being said, modifying them and putting all kinds of shit on them ruins their strong points. a lever gun is refered to as a brush gun, NOT because of brush busting abilities as most think, but how easy they are to handle when moving through thick shit. that is, unless you have stuff bolted onto them. anything more than a peep sight fucks them up.
357's strong point is the ability to carry a lot of ammo at a reduced weight. 44 is a fucking smasher, but carrying lots of rounds gets heavy fast. same same for the 45 colt. 444 and 45-70 are powerhouses, but the same goes for ammo. 30-30 extends the range some, and the 35 remington does the same AND brings the SMACKDOWN! i am waiting for ruger to release the 357 1894.
another advantage that most people don't realize is how quiet they are. i shot a deer a few years back, and another guy 200 yards away never even heard me shoot; he thought i was lying.
this is the aftermath of a 44 260 grain cast bullet about about 1100 fps. a relatively mild load, on my end at least.
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Lever guns are great, I own a couple. But "tactical lever guns" look stupid!
Mike
Mike
You have misread my meaning, it is not for me and nothing against IPSC, my observation (ref IPSC’s website links to YouTube) is shiny shirts and running around which is , again, not for me (now)
concur re the ‘gunfight’ bit, my ref to IDPA was its original (very loose) ethos that in a country where you can carry a concealed handgun then it made sense to compete with a handgun and holster that (loosely) represented what you’d carry every day - yes? Caveat, the couple of times I shot the European police/para-military championships in Holosov it was ‘combative’ in design, but as 99.9% of the competitors put themselves in danger for a living I found that reasonable, I’m not LEO btw.
As to ’stepping up to the plate’ I’ll choose which plate I step up to, me and IPSC would be a joke, a slightly fat old git trying to run round is not a great combination. I have though ‘stepped up’ in my earlier shooting life.
so to reiterate, IPSC great, get on with encouraging folks to shoot but just not a type of shooting I’d do if I was able, exactly the same as SH cup/bash 20 years ago vs current PRL they’ve just changed to suit the current generations expetations ( that is also not a slur, just honesty)
Terry
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Not sure I'm on board totally with the tactical thing but more optics and sight mounting choices are always welcome (Anyone else hate buckhorns?) Also, I think the adjustability is very much a good thing. Not so sure about lights and lasers but if it floats ya boat, go for it.
Scrummy
Scrummy
No love for a tacticool Mosin? Would love to see a high speed vid of the fireball this thing makes at night! 
Think wheel weights are now zinc based as you point out.
you have available off the shelf good lead bullets in the US from folks like buffalo arms.
Casting does take a bit of setting up but as you say quite satisfying, if you are going to shoot any distance with precision you cannot avoid it though. Getting it right pays off.
What level body armor are we talking here? A 45-70 325gr at 2050 fps is a violent mfer at close range (3k+ ft lbs). Beats a 12ga shotgun running 2 3/4 standard velocity slugs by 30-40%. If I had to choose my Benelli M4 vs Marlin 45-70 I'd take my Marlin in almost all cases. Same barrel length, round capacity, recoil, and reload speed. M4 is the faster shooter and 00 buck gives you a miss factor bonus, but 45-70 is more powerful and has better accuracy at longer ranges. Only thing I'd pick my Benelli for is close quarters hallway work and I'd have 00 Buck which I don't believe is going to defeat body armor.
I had my 45-70 leave impact craters at 75 yards on AR500 steel targets using Underwood Ammo Extreme Penetrator rounds. Nasty stuff. I'll see if I can find the pictures and post them later.
If you like the ballistics of the 45-70, then the 50 Beowulf is the tactical firearm you should be looking for.
Great AR rifle caliber.
Great AR rifle caliber.
No, that's against the SASS rules. He's hitting the trigger each time with his finger. He's a Texas shooter and I've shot with him and his dad quite a bit. The rifle has been modified internally with a "short stroke kit" which makes the distance the lever and elevator must travel to chamber a round the absolute minimum.
Top is original lever throw, bottom is short stroke. Ending the stroke before the bottom of the arc makes a tremendous difference. Kit on the right
Chuck Connors' rifle with set screw to trip the trigger.
Cool Rifleman toy cap gun I had as a kid with tripping lever.
This is the model I actually had. It has a foldable tab on the lever that you flipped up for "rapid fire"
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I got a kick out of watching her rock that 12 guage.
great points re: the .357.
Exactly why I built a suppressed 350 legend upper. I want to develop a very, very quiet deer load for use inside 100 yards using 9mm projectiles.
Thank u for the info! That is impressive!No, that's against the SASS rules. He's hitting the trigger each time with his finger. He's a Texas shooter and I've shot with him and his dad quite a bit. The rifle has been modified internally with a "short stroke kit" which makes the distance the lever and elevator must travel to chamber a round the absolute minimum.
Top is original lever throw, bottom is short stroke. Ending the stroke before the bottom of the arc makes a tremendous difference. Kit on the right
View attachment 7850101 View attachment 7850102
Chuck Connors' rifle with set screw to trip the trigger.
View attachment 7850103
Cool Rifleman toy cap gun I had as a kid with tripping lever.
I don't know if the new Ruger Marlin 1895 qualifies as "tactical" (it does have a threaded barrel and Picatinny optics rail), but it makes me horny and I look forward to getting one when the price and availability return to "normal".
Been wanting a tactical lever for a while. At minimum a threaded barrel, but i just cant quite land on a caliber. I also have to decide how i want to use it, which hunting in my state does not lend itself to levers, too long of range. I think i want to shoot heavy sub sonics. I have a ti-rant .45 can that is light and would be fun on a 16” or less gun.
.45-70, .50-70/90, .45-110, .451 BP conical, and .58 Minie ball are EXTREMELY bad medicine for anything on the receiving end, armored or not. Soft lead projectiles do not fragment and they tend to behave like gobs of wet putty at impact, deforming, flattening, and transferring ALL of their energy into the targets. They will not penetrate soft armor but even with a Level III or Level IV, anything behind it is going to look like they got hit with a sledgehammer. Massive blunt force trauma and overpressure.
Had to make this one right now:
If "butt ugly" already describes something that is really bad, I wonder what is even worse...
Probably "tranny taint wound ugly"...
I'm nowhere near that fast, but my .357 is tons of fun. 
It is. I got the Comanche package less the leather. Lightened trigger and hammer springs and a short stroke kit.
They told me not to shoot full magnum loads, so it only sees the light stuff.
Group is off bags at 100 yards.
I have an older Marlin 44 magnum that I had threaded for short range hunting with a suppressor. Hot loads kept breaking the unobtanium barrel band screw at the front of the handguard.
I bought the Ranger Point aluminum unit because the crossbolt is stronger. Left everything else the same.
I bought the Ranger Point aluminum unit because the crossbolt is stronger. Left everything else the same.
Saturday afternoon on MeTV and every weekday at I think 3:00
. Still my favorite episode was with Sammy Davis Jr.Apologies to the lever gun purest’s but the gallery rifle comps here in the UK replaced Police pistol when we lost all our handguns, this is my 38/357 Marlin
Mines in 45LC, they are a beauty. I load mine to also work in my Uberti 45LC single action.
Something nice about shooting those.
I’m more of a traditionalist. Like this little Marlin I reworked. The “tactical lever guns”, to me, are as ugly as a Rhino revolver.
That Looks like a blast, thanks for posting
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