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Long barrel AR-15 recommendations

1slow01z71

1slow01z71

Side of the barn hitter
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 12, 2012
919
11
Austin, TX
Ive seen all the wildcat cartridges out there and for now Id like to stick with 223 as Im starting to learn to reload as well as longer range shooting. Ive got an r700 5r in 308 to learn on as well. I know neither are very good long range calibers compared to other offerings but I feel the huge wealth of reloading info on those two calibers as well as component cost and availability lend well to me getting more trigger time to nail down the fundamentals.

Im thinking Id probably like to go with a 20" barrel that will be bolted to a seekins SP223 upper and a 16.7" nsr rail. This all will go on a seekins billet lower with a prs stock and geissele ssa-e. This setup will mainly be used for bench shooting and prairie dog/varmint hunting. I don't plan to pack it through the woods but Im also not looking for a tree trunk barrel either. So far the barrel that has my eye is this one
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2911

Im open to suggestions. I don't really have a budget in mind nor am I in a big hurry to get the barrel so I can wait. Just want to make sure Im on the right track and get a good performer to minimize the excuses.
 
Guess the "needs to be headspaced" explains the price. Although I believe Ill go with a quality bolt and get them headspaced together which was a reason I was also considering going the JP route since it would be a "one stop shop" type of deal. If I could actually find some go, no go gauges Id check it myself but theyre like finding hens teeth at the moment. Especially PTG gauges.
 
smschulz said:
It's a good barrel.
I have the exact same thing except WOA which is 1/9 instead of 1/8.
It shoots lights out.
Click to expand...
How does it sling 77s and 80s? For this rifle it will be fed a diet of pretty much only the heavies with the exception of once a year when we go to NM for prairie and coyote hunting which will then be switched the lighter varmint type bullets.

Also if it makes any difference this barrel will have a can hanging off the end of it 90% of the time so a real light profile barrel probably wouldn't be a good idea.
 
for a prone varmint / bench rifle = 20" is perfect

1slow01z71 said:
Ive seen all the wildcat cartridges out there and for now Id like to stick with 223 as Im starting to learn to reload as well as longer range shooting. Ive got an r700 5r in 308 to learn on as well. I know neither are very good long range calibers compared to other offerings but I feel the huge wealth of reloading info on those two calibers as well as component cost and availability lend well to me getting more trigger time to nail down the fundamentals.

Im thinking Id probably like to go with a 20" barrel that will be bolted to a seekins SP223 upper and a 16.7" nsr rail. This all will go on a seekins billet lower with a prs stock and geissele ssa-e. This setup will mainly be used for bench shooting and prairie dog/varmint hunting. I don't plan to pack it through the woods but Im also not looking for a tree trunk barrel either. So far the barrel that has my eye is this one
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2911

Im open to suggestions. I don't really have a budget in mind nor am I in a big hurry to get the barrel so I can wait. Just want to make sure Im on the right track and get a good performer to minimize the excuses.
Click to expand...
 
Your 3 best barrels are going to be Krieger, WOA and Lija.

Best .223 Barrel I have ever seen was a Kreiger 1:7.7 (I think)

WOA for value, nothing will come close.
 
Well, if you want a good all around barrel for sub 300 then Brownells has both the White Oak and Criterion 18" SPR (hbar, rifle gas) barrels in stock. I have had both and they shoot well, I think the white oak was a little bit more consistent with different ammo types though.
 
Long barrel AR-15 recommendations

22" is ideal. The case capacity can't benefit from more than that in any practical sense. If you want to shoot irons you might need more barrel length if you want more sight radius, but there's no point in a long barrel .223.

Get a 22" 7-twist bolt gun throated for the 80's.
 
1slow01z71 said:
Ive seen all the wildcat cartridges out there and for now Id like to stick with 223 as Im starting to learn to reload as well as longer range shooting. Ive got an r700 5r in 308 to learn on as well. I know neither are very good long range calibers compared to other offerings but I feel the huge wealth of reloading info on those two calibers as well as component cost and availability lend well to me getting more trigger time to nail down the fundamentals.

Im thinking Id probably like to go with a 20" barrel that will be bolted to a seekins SP223 upper and a 16.7" nsr rail. This all will go on a seekins billet lower with a prs stock and geissele ssa-e. This setup will mainly be used for bench shooting and prairie dog/varmint hunting. I don't plan to pack it through the woods but Im also not looking for a tree trunk barrel either. So far the barrel that has my eye is this one
https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2911

Im open to suggestions. I don't really have a budget in mind nor am I in a big hurry to get the barrel so I can wait. Just want to make sure Im on the right track and get a good performer to minimize the excuses.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you are on the right track for what you want to do. My suggestions would be to skip the Seekins billet upper and lower (Billet is only going to cost more and add nothing to the rifle). I would recommend a Vltor MUR forged upper and a quality forged lower instead. You can put the savings towards better parts elsewhere on the build or pocket the difference.

You may want to go with a rail that does not need to be timed like the NSR. Best accuracy is usually attained by using a minimal acceptable torque value on the barrel nut. With a rail/hand guard that requires timing like the NSR you may need to go above that to achieve proper timing. Geissele and Centurion CMR rails do not need to be timed for example. I'd say also do this with you muzzle device, but you are going suppressed so it may not be possible.

Since you are going to be shooting suppressed most of the time you may want to consider building a dedicated suppressed upper. This requires a smaller than normal gas port so that less gas is transferred to the BCG/action. Typically a rifle that functions fine unsuppressed becomes way overgassed once you add the suppressor (resulting in excess bolt wear, fouling and faster bolt unlocking). You can either have a barrel made with a custom sized gas port, or have a longer barrel cut down to the length that you want (typically the longer barrels with have a smaller that std. gas port already). The goal is a barrel that functions with the suppressor, but without all the extra gas, fouling, faster than normal bolt unlocking, etc. You could also look into the Noveske swithchblock as this is intended to be a barrel mounted switch that allows a suppressed and unsuppressed mode. If you have a barrel cut down, then you can also have

The Geissele SSA-E and Magpul PRS should be perfect for the use you described.

1slow01z71 said:
Guess the "needs to be headspaced" explains the price. Although I believe Ill go with a quality bolt and get them headspaced together which was a reason I was also considering going the JP route since it would be a "one stop shop" type of deal. If I could actually find some go, no go gauges Id check it myself but theyre like finding hens teeth at the moment. Especially PTG gauges.
Click to expand...

If you are using good quality parts from a known maker, then you can usually get away with a safe headspace that does not need to be checked. The important part being to use a top quality barrel and bolt. You should be good to go with a BCM, Centurion Arms, Daniel Defense, or CMT BCG.

smschulz said:
It's a good barrel.
I have the exact same thing except WOA which is 1/9 instead of 1/8.
It shoots lights out.
Click to expand...

White Oak Armament Does make the same 20" SDM profile barrel and it is currently listed as a 1/8 twist on their website. It is also less expensive than the Rainier/Shilen barrel. I'm sure both will shoot very well.
 
Last edited:
BCP said:
Well, if you want a good all around barrel for sub 300 then Brownells has both the White Oak and Criterion 18" SPR (hbar, rifle gas) barrels in stock. I have had both and they shoot well, I think the white oak was a little bit more consistent with different ammo types though.
Click to expand...
Id really rather not go any shorter than 20" so I can keep more velocity. 18" isn't much more than the 16" guns I already have.
BCP said:
My rainier 16" ultra match was an amazing shooter. I shot some really really tight groups with it and the velocities were good, 2600-2700+ with 77 grain handloads and no pressure signs. I sold the rifle during the last obama scare for 2800bucks :)
Click to expand...
2700+ out of a 16" with 77s and no pressure signs sounds pretty good. From my reading on the guys trying to duplicate the mk262 round it seems like getting close to 2800 without pressure signs is easier said than done.
Graham said:
22" is ideal. The case capacity can't benefit from more than that in any practical sense. If you want to shoot irons you might need more barrel length if you want more sight radius, but there's no point in a long barrel .223.

Get a 22" 7-twist bolt gun throated for the 80's.
Click to expand...
I want to stick with the AR platform and mag length loads. Im not interested in single feed and/or bolt guns for this exercise. Ive got a nice 22-250 bolt gun if I really want a small caliber laser beam. All of this is an exercise to learn more about reloading and long range shooting in preparation for stretching out my 300WM and later a 6.5mm of some sort of flavor. Probably CM or GAPs SAUM but that's next year, depending on how much trigger time I get.
elephantrider said:
Sounds like you are on the right track for what you want to do. My suggestions would be to skip the Seekins billet upper and lower (Billet is only going to cost more and add nothing to the rifle). I would recommend a Vltor MUR forged upper and a quality forged lower instead. You can put the savings towards better parts elsewhere on the build or pocket the difference.

You may want to go with a rail that does not need to be timed like the NSR. Best accuracy is usually attained by using a minimal acceptable torque value on the barrel nut. With a rail/hand guard that requires timing like the NSR you may need to go above that to achieve proper timing. Geissele and Centurion CMR rails do not need to be timed for example. I'd say also do this with you muzzle device, but you are going suppressed so it may not be possible.

Since you are going to be shooting suppressed most of the time you may want to consider building a dedicated suppressed upper. This requires a smaller than normal gas port so that less gas is transferred to the BCG/action. Typically a rifle that functions fine unsuppressed becomes way overgassed once you add the suppressor (resulting in excess bolt wear, fouling and faster bolt unlocking). You can either have a barrel made with a custom sized gas port, or have a longer barrel cut down to the length that you want (typically the longer barrels with have a smaller that std. gas port already). The goal is a barrel that functions with the suppressor, but without all the extra gas, fouling, faster than normal bolt unlocking, etc. You could also look into the Noveske swithchblock as this is intended to be a barrel mounted switch that allows a suppressed and unsuppressed mode. If you have a barrel cut down, then you can also have

The Geissele SSA-E and Magpul PRS should be perfect for the use you described.



If you are using good quality parts from a known maker, then you can usually get away with a safe headspace that does not need to be checked. The important part being to use a top quality barrel and bolt. You should be good to go with a BCM, Centurion Arms, Daniel Defense, or CMT BCG.



White Oak Armament Does make the same 20" SDM profile barrel and it is currently listed as a 1/8 twist on their website. It is also less expensive than the Rainier/Shilen barrel. I'm sure both will shoot very well.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the thorough response.

The reason Im going with the seekins setup is this upper will be put on my SBR lower which is the above described lower. I just don't see the point in building a whole new lower that meets all the criteria I need for this build. I wont have a need to shoot these two uppers at the same time as the 300BLK is shoot subsonic 75% of the time on hogs and plinking which wont be when I need this long barrel 223. So the seekins upper is just because Im anal and want it all to match.

I agree on the NSR barrel nut. Sometimes it times perfect other times its a pain. Noveske will also send a different barrel nut if you cant time it right without excessive tq. From my reading it seems properly tq'ing and timing the muzzle device has more of an effect on accuracy than anything. At any rate Ive already got the 16.7" NSR and I like long rails. If it doesn't work out then Ill go to plan B. Currently Ive got a yhm titanium 7.62 QD suppressor and its just a flash hider so no need to time it. I just hit it with a little blue loc tite and snug it up. With that said I will have one of these
Recce 7 -
headed my way once my dealer gets one in hand for me to see. The nice thing about that setup is the brake has a rebated back so it hides the timing shims so I will be able to time the brake once I get it.

I read a lot about people having over gassed rifles but I suppose Ive been fortunate. My 300BLK runs great suppressed(no surprise)and my 223 runs fine too. Maybe the 223 runs great due to using a 30cal can on a 224 projectile, I don't know. If I have problem with over-gassing Ill get an adjustable gas block of some sort. I believe for this build I may try out one of the lightweight carriers and bolts from JP since this isn't a SHTF or SD rifle.

Looks like everyone has crazy lead times on their barrels, just hate to order one then barrels come back in stock elsewhere. If the rainier barrel was in stock Id order it now but since its not Im kind of at an impasse as to what to do.
 
What distances are you planning on shooting and how are you going to get 80 grain bullets to fit in a .223 magazine? When I was shooting High-Power we would feed 80 grain bullets singly.
 
tickled pink said:
What distances are you planning on shooting and how are you going to get 80 grain bullets to fit in a .223 magazine? When I was shooting High-Power we would feed 80 grain bullets singly.
Click to expand...

Depleted Uranium Projectiles ;-)
 
Supposedly the berger 80.5s will run fine at mag length. Just what Ive read from a few people. If they wont then I wont run them.
 
Well I just got a call and they happen to have some get completed today so my barrel and bolt will be in the mail today. Got pretty lucky on that one. I dont even have a dang scope to go on this rig yet. Gonna have to start saving my lunch money.
 
You are going to love that barrel. I have one that is a few years old and I just now started playing with it. She is a hammer with 77gr SMKs at 600 yds. I held 10 shots from the mag under in 5" earlier this week. Rather hastily fired. While this is not going to break any bench rest records, it is a great 10 shot group for a field AR at that distance. It seems to like 24.8gr RL15 and wolf SRM primers. Work up to this, but it shows no pressure in my gun. 2818 avg from my CED chrono.
 
Thats good news to hear. Everything I've read about woa has been great. The people were very nice on the phone as well. I really wanted to try one of JPs barrels but I just couldnt get passttheir goofy contour and the giant gas block. With their .936 gas block I wouldnt have been able to run my noveske nsr 16.7 rail so I believe this will work well for what I intend.

This exercise is mainly to help me learn to call wind better. 223 is reasonably cheap to shoot and obviously will be affected more by wind than the larger calibers. Plus it ought to be fun when we go prairie dog shooting. Also need to settle on a scope. Tjink I might snag one of the new swfa ss 3-15s to try out since I have no need for illumination on this rig. I love my pst 4-16 on my 308 but I think I'd like to try something different this go round.

Has anyone tried 20"+ barrels with hotter 40gr loads? I know it'll sling the heavies well but I'm wondering what it'll do with bullets like the 40gr vmax and noslers.
 
This from Lothar-Walther, includes bolt and barrel extension for precision fit. I would suggest the 1:8" twist.

My rifle is a Stag Model 6 Super Varminter with a 5.56 chamber, 23" 1:8" twist, not a Lothar-Walther, perhaps an E.R. Shaw, and the accuracy at 250yd. with 69SMK or HDY 75HBPT Match is delightful. Even 50gr Nosler BT's work well out there.

Also see their 20" Varmint Tactical, special pricing $369, also with the matched bolt and barrel extension, in stock.

My rifle bears a Weaver V-24 Matte Varminter scope, mounted directly to the receiver rail with a set of Weaver see-thru rings. Amazon will occasionally have returned/used scopes, offered with complete guarantee, mine was one of these and sold (shipped) for $293 and change.

Greg
 
Last edited:
I built a relatively similar setup. Used the 18" WOA 1:7 with seekins receiver. With 77s it shot really good, ~.5 moa. Bulk 55's whole nother story, ~2 moa.

Its a really nice barrel and boasts good workmanship when you inspect it out of the box. Hope you enjoy the build.
 
Ill be tickled pink if this thing will sling the heavies at .5moa and the light 40gr varmint loads 1moa or better. I don't plan on running a bunch of plinking type ammo through it. Ive got a 16" and 14.5" for that type of stuff and one of these days when my form 1 is approved an 11.5" too.
 
Got it in the mail today

The machining on this thing is pretty nice, although there are some marks on the muzzle right before the threading at 3 and 9 oclock. Nothing big and Im sure I ding it up against the table soon enough and put my own "character" marks on it. I got it shipped to my door with matching headspaced bolt for 50 less than the same barrel from Rainier so Im happy.

Had to use two shims to get the NSR nut to clock right without putting a ridiculous amount of tq on it and getting the fortis brake to time right was a bit of a pain but it all turned out well. If I can source a low profile gas block locally between now and Sunday Ill get to try it out. Otherwise itll be next weekend.

20" barrel with the 16.7 NSR looks pretty good in my opinion.
 
Yes you were very lucky. I ordered a complete upper from WOA in December and it did not arrive until early September. But I did spec a 1-8 twist instead of his standard 1-7 twist so there was no chance that the barrel would be in stock. Still it took a loooong time.
 
Finally got a gas block in on Friday so Ill be headed out tomorrow to break this thing in and see what itll do. Ended up getting a vltor stainless gas block which looks pretty darn good I think.

Ive got some 77gr Graf seconds loaded over some varget along with some black hills 77gr Im going to compare to over the chrono. Hopefully my loads can come close accuracy and speed wise to the BH stuff that's suppose to be great. Ill run my 50gr vmax load through it as well to see what happens. Im wondering how it will compare having a 20" barrel and rifle length gas vs 14.5" barrel and midlength gas pressure wise. My 50gr load is pretty hot out of that short barrel, may have to drop down to my lower node to run successfully in the 20".
 
Cobracutter said:
Your 3 best barrels are going to be Krieger, WOA and Lija.

Best .223 Barrel I have ever seen was a Kreiger 1:7.7 (I think)

WOA for value, nothing will come close.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. For the money and purpose described, I'd order a WOA barrel just the way you want it. Mine came back in half the time it was quoted to me. It's money well spent.
 
If itll ever stop raining here Ill get a chance to try it out. Really hope its a shooter. I had originally planned to throw this upper on my 300BLK lower that has an SSA-E trigger but I think Im just going to build another lower with the PRS stock Ive got and a geissele national match since upmost precision is the purpose of this build. With the atlas bipod up front and the monopod out back it ought to make for a solid shooting platform and hopefully my reloading skills and the barrel are up to the task. On a damn good day Id love to see a sub 1" group at 300yds. The gun and myself have a lot of work to get there though.
 
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